Miyamoto calls Sony's DualShake "flattering" [update 1]
by Ross Miller 
{ May 22nd 2006 at 3:25PM }
It's the popular question to pose to a Nintendo employee: "did Sony copy you?" On Friday, Nintendo UK's David Yarnton said yes. Today, legendary game designer Shigeru Miyamoto concurred -- but without Yarnton's hosility. In fact, Miyamoto considers it "flattering; it kind of reinforces in our minds that we're doing the right thing." Miyamoto further goes on to note that Sony's motion-sensor controller is "similar to what we did back on the Game Boy Color many years ago," and shows no concern for Sony's last-minute addition. Sony's DualShake controller implements its motion-sensing technology differently than the Wiimote: while the latter monitors motion relative to a TV sensor, the former determines movement relative to itself (a more apt comparison, then, might be the accelerometer found in the Wiimote's nunchuk attachment).
The defense we have seen from Sony supporters is that Sony has researched and patented motion-sensing technology from as far back as 1999. The patent applies to all of Sony's divisions, and although gaming could have been specifically in mind, the inclusion (and its timeliness) does appear to be a knee-jerk reaction to the Wiimote's capabilities. But if Nintendo does not care, who are we to complain for the company's sake?
[update 1: The full interview, conducted by Steve Tilly of the Toronto Sun, can be found here -- thanks, that guy]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Danny Boy @ May 22nd 2006 3:37PM
Sony are Miamotowned!
KA-POW!
Andrew Gossen @ May 22nd 2006 3:38PM
What a humble, Nintendoqueis thing to say.
nabil @ May 22nd 2006 3:39PM
that guy is so cool.
Rueben @ May 22nd 2006 3:44PM
Miyamoto basically said what everyone should have been saying all along. This is why people love Shiggy, and they should. If all the other PR people and speakers at E3 displayed the same, cool humble attitude I think they'd be much less annoying. Go Shiggy!
JimmyHACK @ May 22nd 2006 3:44PM
ahh just more sony bashing.....
Fan @ May 22nd 2006 3:48PM
This is not Sony bashing. Anyone can see that Sony put in the motion sensoring technology because of Nintendo. I am glad they did, it will be fun to play with. Im especially looking forward to driving games.
JodyAnthony @ May 22nd 2006 3:49PM
how could anyone not love miyamoto
vidGuy @ May 22nd 2006 3:49PM
Nintendo had been developing this idea for several years and had numerous demos available at E3.
If Sony had been developing the DualShake (yuck, what a crappy name, especially since it doesn't shake and you don't shake it to make the sensor tilt) since 1999, why was that crappy WarHawk or whatever it was the only demo at E3?
I agree with Shiggy... being copied helps reiterate that they are doing the right thing (analog stick, rumble pack, et cetera). For Sony to make this move before the Wii even gets a chance to shine, it's pretty obvious that the industry expects the motion sensing to be popular.
On a side note, I love the fact that both Sony and Microsoft have stated publicly that they support Nintendo, just so they can beat each other. Say hello to huge profits, Nintendo.
r-deezy @ May 22nd 2006 3:49PM
Does anyone else see a resemblance between Michael Jackson's mug shot and the above picture of Miyamoto??
Tucker @ May 22nd 2006 3:50PM
That photo of Miyamoto always makes me laugh, because it reminds me of one of my Asian friends, Glen, who used to do the most hilarious "white guy impression." He'd open his eyes real wide and put on a WASP-y voice saying "Hey, guys, let's go get some peanut butter sandwiches!"
Used to crack me the F up. Ahh, good times good times.
Oh, and something about video games, too.
Les Doodis @ May 22nd 2006 3:55PM
Can't really call it the DualShake anymore. Let's see, how about: the UniYaw?
Brian Sexton @ May 22nd 2006 3:55PM
Motion-sensing controllers are already on the market for Windows games; Fry's Electronics has one from HVG2 (a you-have-probably-never-heard-of-it brand of hardware-shovelware "starter" kits for consoles) for something like twenty or thirty dollars and, interestingly enough, that controller looks like a standard DualShock knock-off.
Motion-sensing controllers are not a revolutionary new concept or revolutionary new products--I had the idea myself when seeing people jerking their Atari 2600, NES, etc. controllers around while playing and thousands of other people probably did too--so what is the big deal?
Jerm @ May 22nd 2006 3:57PM
It's funny how much a bad Press Conferance can change things. I remember when everyone was bashing M$ when they came out, calling the system expensive, and saying it sucks, and how much better the PS3 was going to be. Then PS3 had it's conferance, and now, anytime anyone says anything about Sony, it's Sony Bashing. Can't anyone have an opinion about something, without being called a "basher" or a "fan-boy"? The overall feeling about the Sony Press Conferance is that it sucked. That's not my opinon, check IGN and GameSpot for their feelings on it too. The overall feeling about the Sony PS3 remote is that it stole from Nintendo. Saying that doesn't make someone a fan-boy or basher, it just means they see things as they are. Does saying that mean I don't think the PS3 is one fine peice of gaming hardware.....no, it just means that Sony didn't innovate and lead as you would have expected someone with at 100 million console buffer between them and their nearest competitor, to do.
riffgod @ May 22nd 2006 3:57PM
I guess I envisioned the wrong thing and didn't actually read anything about the PS3's controller other than it bein motion sentive and losing the rumble feature.
It sounds like what is being said here is that the PS3 control really won't interact with your television. It will be more like Wario Ware twisted or Yoshi topsy-turvy.
If that's the case I don't really seeing that bein very useful for anything more than maybe a flight simulator.
idioteraser @ May 22nd 2006 3:59PM
Please Nintendo has had motion sensing tech long before Sony did. Not only on the gbc but several NES periperhals such as the Power Glove.
Good idea but the NES wasn't able to handle it. It was ahead of it's time and not bad since the tech it came from cost 10,000 a unit back then and costs even more now.
Ln @ May 22nd 2006 3:59PM
With their vast resources, Sony probably has a billion and one ideas and concepts recorded in their history. It would seem unlikely that they’ve never looked at motion technology.
No one is saying that Nintendo has discovered some unknown alien technology or invented something out of thin air. The point is that Nintendo took a new direction in console gaming control. (Remember how people were surprised when it was announced?). It just seems strange now that Sony have followed suit. Maybe they didn't imitate as such, maybe they were merely influenced by the attention the Wii controller was getting, or maybe its just a strange coincidence. We'll never know for sure.
And you’re assuming too much if you think Nintendo doesn’t care. They’re hardly likely to throw a hissy-fit are they now? I’m sure they’ve given it some thought behind closed doors. Although I think that comment was aimed more as an underhand dig at your readers.
Thomas Crymes @ May 22nd 2006 3:59PM
The programmers of Warhawk only got specs on the controller two weeks prior to E3, so the controller is a very recent development.
And if Sony was throwing out speculative specs like Double HDMI, and multiple ethernet ports, why not say the controller would be motion sensitive? That's easy, because there were no plans for it last year.
In the end it doesn't even matter, because Sony is implementing the tech, and games will use the tech. It will be nice that developers will be able to utilize this functionality as it will be in every controller. That's a good thing.
In my opinion, Sony decided it wasn't going to pay royalties for the rumble tech so it dropped it in favor of motion sensing. It really isn't hard to figure out.
striderhayasa @ May 22nd 2006 4:02PM
@ Les Doodis...LMAO The Uni Yaw? That's hilarious. Sony ripped off the idea, end of story. When did Kirby Tilt and Tumble come out the the Gameboy color?
idioteraser @ May 22nd 2006 4:03PM
I wonder when Joystiq and other sites well have that youtube clip titled Sony's Embarrising 2006 E3 press conferance video. You know where the Genji2 play session is examined with it's historic Japanese battles with Giant Crabs? Or real time weapon change in which your weapon sparkles then vanishes? Or flipping the enemy over to hit it's weak spot?
It's amazing you have people believe Sony spent billions developing the Cell and that is more powerfull then supercomputers. Ahem if that was true Sony would be selling Cell processors to every computer and military industrial company on the planet. They would be making hundreds of billions of dolllars a year if the cell was more powerfull then a supercomputer. A supercomputer costs hundreds of millions of dollars to buy. Why would anyone want to put a processor better then a supercomputer into a console that costs 499 when they could sell each processor for tens of thousands or even millions of dollars a pop?
boots @ May 22nd 2006 4:03PM
"The defense we have seen from Sony supporters is..."
You don't need to be a Sony supporter to stand for the truth... do you?
And by the way, just as "Fan" said, even if they did copy, I'm glad. In fact, I expected it. What, and give your competition a bone? Why not offer the same and then more, instead of just a trade off?
Felix Andrews @ May 22nd 2006 4:05PM
If we're going to be finicky, the tilt-sensor technology you see used in the DualShake was put into practice with Nintendo's Kirby: Tilt n' Tumble on the Game Boy Color, which I believe was launched in 1999 or 2000 (not totally sure, as it was never released in Europe-land).
And then of course there's Microsoft's Sidewinder tilt-sensitive controllers, which predate even that.
A patent doesn't necessarily mean Sony thought of it first.
hohoho @ May 22nd 2006 4:05PM
the man's a legend. No hardcore rhetorics. That's why he's always so respected across the industry. kutaragi, moore and sometimes reggie tend to blow hot air once in a while, worse mud slinging.
And suddenly, it seems x360 is rather current gen (well it's out). That is always the risk of early launch. You can react to others as well as you hope you could. Consumers are always lured by new technologies. And given the current economy conditions are not too bad (minus the oil prices), generally speaking ppl are willing to spend.
Paul P. @ May 22nd 2006 4:06PM
Miyamoto always seems to have this "deer in the headlights" look in pictures.
32_Footsteps @ May 22nd 2006 4:08PM
You know, it's a shame the printed word can't really show tone effectively. Could you just imagine Miyamoto saying this with exaggerated sarcasm?
"Similar to what we did... *back on the Game Boy Color years ago*!"
Same quote, much different meaning when given a sarcastic tone. I mean, putting it like that, you can just imagine Satoru Iwata saying "Dis!" while chuckling and giving Miyamoto a high five after the quote.
All jokes aside, it's good to see someone who has the decency to give a tip of the hat when they see something their competitor is doing. Of course, Miyamoto's so legendary, if Nintendo had its doors shut down at 9 AM tomorrow, he'd have a dozen job offers at 9:01 AM. So being that assured of a job might make it easier to be humble.
DarkTetsuya @ May 22nd 2006 4:08PM
Well, you know what they say about imitation...
Shaymus22 @ May 22nd 2006 4:12PM
Since when is what sony is doing the benchmark for the "right thing"?
MetaHuman @ May 22nd 2006 4:13PM
Of course he cares. I think it was back before the Revmote as it was then-called that he said they didn't want to share all their secrets because with a quote that sounded like "Analogue stick? Boom, gone. Rumble feature? Boom, gone."
Sounded a lot like that.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if I found myself expressing the same sentiment in the future.
jabbertrack @ May 22nd 2006 4:18PM
all of this seems so retarded really... I mean 2 years ago I was passing kiosks at the mall with a teenager playing a tennis game on a TV by swinging a motion sensative racket at horrible graphics
now that same concept has been accepted by Nintendo and half-assed by Sony and it's being called 'innovative' a a 'step in the right direction'
sheeeeesh
idioteraser @ May 22nd 2006 4:25PM
I think Nintendo cares when Sony copies and then states they made the innovation while previously dissing Nintendo about the innovation.
Microsoft seems more polite and complimentary about Nintendo innovations.
That whole copy your face with the camera and put it in a game was something that was going to be done with certain N64 games.
Motion sensing for games is something that has been tried a lot the trick is making it very accurate and fun. Also not using a periperhal for each game concept.
The wiimote can by itself be used as a bat, catcher, pitcher, tennis racket, gun periperhal, numerous applications for cooking type games, numerous applications for music games. Hell even two remotes for boxing or fighting games. Add in the nunchuck you got tons more possiblites.
In metroid prime 3 for example to do a switch for a puzzle you use the nunchuck to mimic the moves. So to open a door you reach forward with the nunchuck turn it then pull back. Very natural feeling and certaintly better then doing a bunch of button and joystick maneuvers.
Les Doodis @ May 22nd 2006 4:26PM
#18 - "Why not offer the same and then more..."
It might be different if Sony had implemented the "and then more" part of it. Unfortunately, as it stands now, it's a half-a**ed attempt to keep up with the Joneses.
KilgoreTrout XL @ May 22nd 2006 4:31PM
Kudos, vidguy!
Why is Sony getting off the hook with a name like"DualShake", and the big N getting all the flak about Wii?
Hey, I'm not a huge fan of "Wii", but "DualShake" sounds like some kind of futuristic salad topping.
The_Predator @ May 22nd 2006 4:32PM
Is it actually called a DualShake? That is such a stupid name.
32_Footsteps @ May 22nd 2006 4:36PM
I wouldn't say that, Kilgore. "DualShake" sounds like what I'd order at a restaurant if I couldn't make up my mind between the vanilla and the strawberry milkshakes.
As for the chocolate one - my wife already made up her mind and took that one.
adam @ May 22nd 2006 4:39PM
I like this comment from Miyamoto. I recall back when the PS2 was on the way, and Kutaragi was interviewed regarding the upcoming Xbox. He said if Microsoft considered Sony it's "competitor," the Kutaragi said he was honored. Now, it seems Miyamoto is taking the same stance, because, like Kutaragi, I think he is quite sure his company will be taking the biggest share of the market this upcoming generation, like ps2 did last.
It is better to show humility, rather than arrogance, when you are assured victory. Sony, sadly, has lost sight of this. They are very very proud of what they have done. Bling pride. And this is coming from a Sony fanboy. I own a silver ps2 and a HDD. I'm the last guy who would want to bash the company that has given me so much entertainment the past 10 years. I'm just shocked at how quickly Sony has destroyed public faith in their upcoming system. Broken promises, ridiculous price point... It's just depressing.
Marc @ May 22nd 2006 4:44PM
Ya see?
If Sony didn't copy Nintendo (again), the public may have written off the Wii controller as a "gimmick" (God i hate that word!). But now that Sony copied this, Nintendo got the "Stolen-by-Sony stamp of approval"
Think about this. Right now, two out of three home gaming consoles have some form of movement in them. Nintendo's goal has been reached (well not really). Movement is now a standard in next-gen games.
I'm gonna regret this but, I gotta thank Sony for stealing this (and other) idea(s). Wether Sony knows it or not, they're keeping their competition in the market (but since Sony sided with Nintendo, they aren't really compettition anymore).
xX_Pc_Xx @ May 22nd 2006 4:47PM
I totally agree with #18....Last time systems were launched, it was Sony out first. This time sony will possibly be the last out the gate......it only makes sense for sony to take advantage of the other companies ideas before they put their own system out. Only makes the PS3 a better system !!!!!
idioteraser @ May 22nd 2006 4:53PM
Well adam the same could have been said of Nintendo during the Yamanuchi years of the N64, Virtual Boy and Gamecube.
He had lead the company for over 30 years to great success but he finally admitted it needed new leadership. He had damaged the relationships Nintendo had. After all at one time they could treat the third parties as dirt yet still they would put 90% of their games on the Nintendo hardware.
Nintendo has enough reserves and qualities so they could absorb the marketshare losses they took. Sony on the other hand is in deep trouble being billions of dollars in dept and with many failing divisions. Which is why they are promoting blu-ray. If they lose that then they could drop out of the console business or lose several divisions meaning their company will not be as powerfull as it once was.
Alkaiser @ May 22nd 2006 4:53PM
I agree with everyone talking about how refreshing it is to someone not arrogantly saying something bat-shit insane. Miyamoto's not even the PR guy, and yet, somehow, he delivers one of the better pieces of PR material to come from the video game industry. (Moore's bit a while back was also done pretty nicely.)
I'll take honesty over decency, but I'll take decency over the sort of arrogant half-honesty we've been getting from PR. The type where they don't hold back about bashing their competitors, and yet refuse to acknowledge any of their own flaws when they're presented to them.
As far as Sony "possibly" having motion sensing capability a while back, it's pretty freaking obvious that they did. Uh, hello...EyeToy. That was a motion-sensing peripheral. What else is it supposed to be? A portable USB soul-stealing device?
I don't think it was so much that Sony stole Nintendo's idea, as it was that they are both on different roads, and they're heading to two destinations that are pretty close to each other. When Nintendo announced their motion sensing stuff Sony went, "Hey! Shortcut!" and diverted onto Nintendo's path.
They're going a different way with their motion sensing, though. I think the camera is going to be their (har har) focus and the motion sensing controller a quick grab so that they offer some capabilities to be used in the here and now. Honestly, with a good enough camera peripheral, Sony's motion sensing trumps Nintendo's. Instead of just moving one arm, a good camera could capture a much large number of movement points.
However, that all depends on Sony actually making a decent camera to use with it.
Dqham @ May 22nd 2006 4:57PM
Remember the nintendo u-force? I had one.
Designerbradr @ May 22nd 2006 4:58PM
Miyamoto is quite magnanimous. Gotta give him props for that.
I, on the other hand, think imitation is the sincerest cause of battery.
...What can I say...
...I have a bad temper...
Edmund @ May 22nd 2006 5:00PM
"ahh just more sony bashing....."
Definitely Not.
"If Sony had been developing the DualShake (yuck, what a crappy name, especially since it doesn't shake and you don't shake it to make the sensor tilt) since 1999, why was that crappy WarHawk or whatever it was the only demo at E3?"
Yes, anyone who thinks that Sony was developing the DualShake since 1999 is delusional. Are some people so blind that they actually believe that thing took seven years to engineer and build? All it is is a DualShock with a tilt sensor put in place of the rumble pack. That would take a Sony engineer ten minutes, not seven years. It's obvious that Sony added it at the last minute. I would rather they just kept the rumble pack.
Alkaiser @ May 22nd 2006 5:02PM
Idiot:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SNE&annual
Sony cleared 1.5 Billion dollars in net income last year, and has nearly 20 Billion in net tangible assets as of 2005.
Meanwhile, Nintendo didn't even break the $1 Billion mark last year. It's pretty obvious that neither company is in dire financial straits.
Jouten Za @ May 22nd 2006 5:06PM
20 Billion dollars is chump change to Ol' Bill though.
Joe Smith @ May 22nd 2006 5:07PM
I wonder is MS or Logitech ever patented anything in the controllers they did int eh late 90's. MS had the Freestyle and Logitech had the Wingman. Here's alnk to a comaprison review: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/motionpad/
I remember these and they basically sucked for real gameplay. While the tech has no doubt improved, I would be surprised if the Sony pad is much better for real gaming.
vidGuy @ May 22nd 2006 5:07PM
"all of this seems so retarded really... I mean 2 years ago I was passing kiosks at the mall with a teenager playing a tennis game on a TV by swinging a motion sensative racket at horrible graphics"
When will these stupid comments ever end??? Do you understand the difference between a cheap plastic racket that plays one game and a STANDARD controller for an entire console? I don't care if the 360 or PS3 has a periph that copies the Wii controller exactly, it will never measure up to the acceptance that Wii will have because it SELLS with the remote.
Nintendo will be hard pressed to NOT innovate with the Wii. And either way you look at it, Nintendo's move will most likely introduce motion controlled aspects into the group of standardized control.
Think about it. Remember the PS2 commercial that advertised the "PS9" as some super-virtual-reality console? Are the game developers going to be able to reach that level with the standard controller? Hell, no. There needs to be innovation in control. And who better to introduce controller innovation than Nintendo?
Seriously, the Wii will be able to pump out some nice graphics (not 360/PS3 level, of course, but more like XBOX x 1.2) and will feature some fun control. If it's not for you, fine, but don't diss it because it looks from an outsider's view to be similar to a $19.99 FisherPrice videogame.
Your comment's similar to somebody pre-Goldeneye saying "A rumble pack!?!? WTF! Why don't I just tape a vibrator to my controller! Damn, Nintendo is so stupid!!"
that guy @ May 22nd 2006 5:08PM
Thanks for the post Ross. If I could just add though, this came from the Toronto Sun, not the Edmonton Sun (the interviewer, Steve Tilley, used to work in Edmonton, he has since moved to Toronto) ... not sure why gamesindustry.biz or any other site didn't gave the proper credit. Anyhow, the full interview can be found on WHAM! Gaming (which is affiliated with the Sun) at the following link, if anyone is interested in reading the full transcipt:
http://wham.canoe.ca/news/2006/05/20/1590245-sun.html
Thanks, and enjoy folks!
skyrous @ May 22nd 2006 5:27PM
your right about the numbers sony cleared 1.5 billion dollars and nintendo cleared 800 million last year.
The difference is Sony about many times bigger than nintendo. Nintendo is a small company that only makes video games, 800 million in profit from a company like nintendo is impressive. Meanwhile sony is the biggest consumer electronics company in the world, they are a major player in TV's. stereo's, DVD, video games, movies and music plus dozens of other businesses. Sony shouldn't be making 1 billion they should be making 5-10 billion. While they aren't going out of business anytime soon by EVERYONE'S standards the company is underperforming. They're counting on the ps3 and bluray to pull them out of the quicksand, or the real pain of cutbacks will start. Just a few months ago sony laid off 10,000 employees in a move to become more profitable, I don't think nintendo even has 10,000 employees.
jabbertrack @ May 22nd 2006 5:29PM
"When will these stupid comments ever end??? Do you understand the difference between a cheap plastic racket that plays one game and a STANDARD controller for an entire console? I don't care if the 360 or PS3 has a periph that copies the Wii controller exactly, it will never measure up to the acceptance that Wii will have because it SELLS with the remote."
My stupid comments will end when your stupid comments will end. Or we could stop calling each other stupid or each others comments stupid and chill the fuck out.
I'm obviously discussing the concept of interactive motion controlled gameplay. I'm just a bit weary of the concept being described as new and innovative. I don't really care if Nintendo is doing it better, or if they have a better chunk of plastic... the concept is OLD and the fact that NINTENDO fanboys seem to think Nintendo owns the creative genius behind swinging a controller around makes my funny bone tickle.
Now Miyamoto, bless his soul, is responding in the correct manner but he fails to point out that Nintendo is merely embracing a direction, not innovating or inventing any concepts that have been 'copied'.
vidGuy @ May 22nd 2006 5:39PM
There may be a select few fanboys out there that think Nintendo invented the heavens and earth, but most of us DO know that the tech is old.
Hell, NINTENDO THEMSELVES said it was old technology, they never claimed otherwise. They only said they would use it in a new way, which they have promised and so far look like they are going to deliver.
But wait, there's more. Was the analog stick a new invention when Nintendo slapped it on the N64 controller and made it an industry standard? No, the joystick had done the same thing with basically the same technology for many years. Nintendo just used it in a new way, and it became a hit.
Same thing goes for the Wii controller, as far as I can see.
Raikage @ May 22nd 2006 5:46PM
"What else is it supposed to be? A portable USB soul-stealing device?"
BUT MY EYE-TOY ATE MY HOMEWORK!!!...and my dog...