Miyamoto: Sony, MS games "same old experiences with new graphics" [update 1]

Regardless of what you people think, Miyamoto is 100% right. Ever since the introduction of the ps2 the trend has been to rehash whatever genre with countless sequels and spin offs, altering a little bit of the story and the characters, but the truth is all of the games end up being the same.


Of course, because of previous limitations games like GTA3 couldn't be done on machines like Ps1 and n64. But Those limitations don't exist any more.

And when I'm playing things like Halo or tekken or any other of the popular games on the popular genres they all feel the same, because there's just so much/little you can do with the actual interface before all games start feeling the same over and over again, and the fact that the story may amuse you from time to time doesn't help at all when you consider the story in most games suck anyway, so that's when you start beggin for better gameplay rather than gimmicky graphics. (I don't even want to see what's going to be of a game like MK with all this detail new consoles can achieve)

So yes, he's right. Halo 3 won't be much better than Halo 2 unless you're counting on graphics.

GTAIV will most likely be the same rehash the past two games have been.

And tekken 6, DMC4, GT5 etc. etc. Won't change much either. So it's time we demand a change.

"same old experiences with new graphics" I definitly agree with Miyamoto on this.

Freind: I got three new games!"
Me: What do you do?
Friend: Well this one... ummm... Your a space cadet and you fight evil aliens. In this one your a soldier and you shoot bad guys... This one your a secret agent and you shoot terrorists... Wait a minute aren't the aliens, the bad guys, and the terrorists all basically one and the same... hmmm? Well the graaphics are good, I mean can't you just see that guys hair! WOWIE!
Me: I think so, but i got a new game where it's not an FPS or the same RPG I played 400 times before. Well in this game I do all sorts of crazy stuff!

I'd find my self playing Halo 2 then playing Call of Duty, and saying "Didn't I just do the exact same thing, except with a different setting, and story?" Another point is that MS is only gradually making the jump to "next gen" video games. Notice how many of the 360 titles are released on Xbox, Madden 2006, King Kong, ect. ( Sorry I don't know many off the top of my head, and im not a MS basher, I havent yet seen Sony's strategy on this.) Basically it's the same game, but with improved graphics as Miyamoto said.
P.S. I loved Xbox, and I love PSP, just not ready to make the jump to next gen (lack of HD TV.) But the second Wii hits the shelves, you will see me there!

[Comment edited]

I view videogames as the nextr logical step in the way human beings communicate and pass on knowledge. We've seen the epic poem, drama, the novel, the opera, pulp serials, comic books, radio dramas, movies, and television. Video games are the next step. I'm sorry if I don't worship at the temple Mario built but I would hardly consider myself a Square fanboy either (X-2 really offended me and XI was retarded). If I am a fan of any compny it is Bioware who seems to (along with Bethesda to a degree) be quitely changing the way we perceive games. I don't need a remote to experience a great story and it seems to me that Nintendo is shoehorning developers into "innovating" rather than simply telling better stories. I am a programmer in the industry, but I also double majored in film criticism and theory in college so that is the direction I am coming from. I am hoping video games get an artist like Franz Litz, Fellini, Francois Truffaut, Jean-Luc Goddard, DeSica, Kubric, Wells.

When was the last time a Nintendo game made you feel any sort of emotional involvement? When was the last time you trully felt like you understood the characters of Mario or Samus? When did you last feel like you were looking into their souls?

That is what gaming needs, emotion, not a new fucking controller. Whoever accomplishes this is trully on the path to the "next generation" and is making the move gaming needs to make to become a serious artform. Not to say that Nintendo can't be the one to do this, just saying that this isn't the way. Also, graphics do help in this regard but are not wholly essential. And this obviously doen't include fighting games or racing and sports sims - thosa games are just for mindless fun and (in the case of your sports titles) a forum to emulate one's idols.

And this is just my opinion. I have a certain view on gaming that I know most do not share, I am simply expressing that opinion and defending myself from libel and misinterprettation.

To Brian, who shares some interesting views.

Video games are indeed a lovely and wholly unique medium of storytelling. But I think you're overvaluing them. For emotional involvement and expert storytelling, we look at games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. Wonderful games, to be sure. But where to the stories and the emotion come from? Not from picking "Fire" on a menu, or running around trying to find some ammo. Those things come from the cutscenes embedded in the games, the voice acting, the dialogue, and the cinematography inherent within those predesigned and premade clips. In that regard, there is no difference from a movie: we sit, with no interactivity, as the characters and plot are laid out before us.

The Wii controller, nor any form of crazy, insane input, can take away from that ability to show cutscenes and build a plot. It just gives us a new way to PLAY the game itself, between scenes. Very few games can have the player himself create a gripping and compelling plot arc; even games like Fable and Grand Theft Auto merely enable a player to run around and kill people indiscriminately, without creating anything worth watching or reading.

Epic games will always exist, and don't get me wrong, I love them. But that really isn't Nintendo's thing. They create games that are, very simply, enjoyable to play. Others can certainly make a game as you describe on their system, I assure you. (Look for Sadness, a psychological thriller set in the early 1900s.) But bashing Nintendo for trying something new? I don't see the problem.

Feep,

You make alot of good comments. I will agree that changing the interface might help, I just doubt that it will. But you are right, there needs to come a point where games tell stories in gameplay rather than just linking cut scenes.

I'm sorry that it seemed like I was attcking Nintendo too much, I have just become very frustrated with the rampant fanboyism, especially from Nintendo's camp where people are simply assuming that the wiimote will bean instant success that actually adds depth to their games when we have yet to see a finished product game and play and log any significant time in ideal (read not E3 - which could not possibly be a worse environment in which to play games) environment. That said, it does look like it will be very fun with a group of people for relatively short - but very active - periods of time which is what Nintendo was aiming for all along.

I respect trying to change things, but in the end it is not hardware, but software that will define the next generation (as well as how software utilizes the hardware).

Oh, and thanks for the star!

"We laud innovation, but it should be said that forcing developers to add motion-sensing to every title could harm titles that would benefit from more classic controls."

Here here. I like innovation, but the motion sensory idea is too too far left to work for now. I mean EVERY game has to have this? Nintendo says it's about innovation, but innovation as long as it's throttled and pushed into their controller design. That sounds frustrating and controlling (no pun intended) Stuff like Geomerty Wars and Animal Crossing seem more naturally innovative than Nintendo pointing to a controller and saying to game makers "Make this fun"

Whilst I agree that Nintendo uses it's franchises frequently over and over again, which company, after finding something popular, doesn't use that leverage to their advantage? They'd be stupid not to.

But you can't seriously say that Nintendo hasn't done anything that's not innovative. They innovate in more ways than graphics, and that's what's important. Microsoft and Sony haven't innovated much in the way of graphics, it's the graphics chip designers who give developers to create graphics in innovative ways... take the devs for Riddick. Until Riddick, how many games used normal maps?

Different companies will innovate in different areas, but no one company can innovate in every single area.

On defense of the new controller, if used correctly, then in story driven games, such as Red Steel, then it will be a great leap over both m&k systems and "standard" controller systems. If you're facing a bunch of thugs, you've disarmed them and now you face them with your katana, from what I understand, the developers are wanting to think about whether you just hack through everybody or let them live. This is something that is barely ever seen in games today. In GTA (as far as I'm aware) there is no choice when dealing with gang members. You either kill them, or they kill you.

As for Gears of War being new, cross-check it with Quake. Or Halo.

Eh... anyway, most people have said (numerous times already) the main themes. Like that dude whose name escapes me at the moment, nothing is truly new. The old is going to come around again and again with few improvements over and over again, best course of action is to quit bitching about what people say and just enjoy the good things that come along whenever they do.

Nintendo: Same old games with a new controller.

there's an interesting thing occuring in this thread. people are defending Nintendo for changing their games on every new version of the franchise, and rightfully so. however, to then slam other companies, when many do the same thing, is just silly. even many of the EA games introduce many features which can vastly improve gameplay over the previous versions. the difference is that without any real interest, Zelda: A Link to the past looks like the original Zelda with just prettier graphics. you actually have to play the game, or really watch it for a very extended period of time to notice an major differences. it's the same with a lot of other games, just that the majority of people aren't interested in trying it. even the FPSes, though they all superficially look alike, have some pretty vast differences. this is why gameplay is, as always, the real advancement of a game.

there are plenty of innovations and changes that are occuring in these games, but it's just very easy to overlook them on all consoles. especially if you don't have an interest in a specific genre. in the end, it's not the input method or the graphics that keep players coming back and playing. it's the gameplay itself. there are cases where both graphics and input devices can enhance the gameplay, such as the transition from the NES to the SNES with Mode7. Pilotwings would never have worked half as well on an NES. the scaling and rotation added to the fundamental gameplay of other SNES games as well, and made them more enjoyable.

you see people here bickering that all the nintendo games are the same, and all the EA games are the same, but in reality, but both groups are wrong. if you never really get into the game, you're never going to see the gameplay changes. and that's really what's important. if it weren't important, Microsoft's side-winder with motion sensors would've been a hit.

Oh eric go drive a REAL car if your old enough.

Fair enough if people have got the time to waste on fine-tuning their pretend racey scalextric cars then great. I have a life outside of my endless customisation options that are given to keep me rooted in front of a tv.

E3 this year kind of proved to anyone who saw the coverage, that, and im sorry fanboys, Nintendo is popular again, for whatever reason. Be it the controller, be it the fact that 75%of the games involve fun over murder,be it the fact Nintendo went to rent-a-line.

New IP's on Gamecube from Nintendo:

Ethernal Darkness
Battallion Wars
Pikmin 1 & 2
Geist
Chibi Robo
Odama
Luigi's Manson
arguably, the re-invention of Metroid Prime (1 & 2)

That's 8 original with 2 warranting sequels.

#59: Since a game is fundamentally an interactive medium, changing the way in which a player interacts with the game does change the game at its' very core. Same content on the screen or not, I don't see how you can argue that Guitar Hero that could only played with a regular controller and Guitar Hero with the guitar are not fundamentally different games.

"I view videogames as the nextr logical step in the way human beings communicate and pass on knowledge. We've seen the epic poem, drama, the novel, the opera, pulp serials, comic books, radio dramas, movies, and television".

Here is your promblem you like the crap forms of true story telling. Video games, movies and tv all suck compared to depht of books. I play games for fun if it happens to have a great story than thats a plus. To judge it on how epic or grand its story is tells me u have no life. Books are and always will be the medium
for the great story telling. How many people does it take to make a final fantasy or the next king kong, alot. But someone can make the greatest story ever and the best special effects ever and it only takes one man to do it. Its called writing it down on paper and putting all the depth and emotion u want in it.

"Oh eric go drive a REAL car if your old enough."

Sounds like someone isn't old enough to piss outside a diaper let alone drive a car.

"Fair enough if people have got the time to waste on fine-tuning their pretend racey scalextric cars then great. I have a life outside of my endless customisation options that are given to keep me rooted in front of a tv."

Congratulations Ianc02, you're a moron.(first of all learn to spell and learn to make a coherent point) By your same reasoning, why make any game heavily involved in anything?! By your retarded baby logic Final Fantasy should dumb down the storyline to 5 minutes, all sports games should only allow you to play through A game without any player or team customization, all MMOG's should never EVER be played because they're "too involved:("
Video games have only gotten better through the endless pursuit of "what else can we do, and how much freedom can we give the player" you dim wit.
The fact that I can tune my suspension and countless other small adjustments in the car I'm racing to shave off 3 seconds in a race in GT-GT4 is a phenomenal advancement in player freedom and customization.
And the fact that I CAN make these adjustments does not mean that I have no life. The fact that you would assume so leads me to believe that you're a pimple faced moron that gets your ass kicked in everything you do because you don't take the time to enjoy and really get involved in anything.

I'm not one for flaming but your post was the most ridiculous attack on me and what I think makes GAMING (not just GT, the game that clearly owns your ass) great!

"Because Nintendo has introduced so many new and di8fferent franchises since 1989."

New Nintendo Franchises, 1989-Present:

Animal Crossing - 2001
Brain Age - 2005
Chibi Robo - 2005
Cruis'n - 1994
Earthbound/Mother - 1989
Fire Emblem - 1990
F-Zero - 1990
Kirby - 1992
Nintendogs - 2005
Pikmin - 2001
Play Action Football - 1990
Pokemon - 1996
Star Tropics - 1990
Starfox - 1993
Super Smash Bros. - 1999

There are more, but I didn't include some of the more obscure ones or Japanese-only titles. Some are more successful than others, but you can't deny that the creative juices still flow in nintendo's IP department.

And let's also not forget that, without Nintendo's innovation, you'd still be using the d-pad, not to mention lifeless, rumble-free controllers. I seem to remember both the N64 controller and the rumble pack garnering much ridicule from so-called hardcore gamers who were afraid of change. Both are now industry standards, the true hallmark of innovation.

I love the pseudo-intellectual commentary by 64. If you're going to laud books as the end-all-be-all of storytelling, at least pay some homage to them and try to write like someone over the age of eleven.

Once again, everyone defend Nintendo tooth and nail. I will say tha the games that Nintendo puts out are good, but most are still sequels. If a Mario game comes out and the goal is to collect stars and save a princess, then the next game starring Mario doing the same thing is a sequel regardless of the name. New franchises pop up on every new hardware generation, but yet this plumber is on his Nth game? I have no problem with more of Nintendo's characters, but if MS kept putting Masterchief in a game you would scream all day. The Metal Gear series has gone on for a while, but they have been different. As long as they keep the series fresh, it's all good with me. Consumers know when a series has gotten stale, and they stop buying it, all except Nintendo fans. I will not say Nintendo does not come out with new stuff, but they will sequel it out too. watch how many Versions of Nintendogs get released. How many Pokemon games did they get kids to buy? As for the Wii, I think its an interesting idea, but like someone already said, its the software not the hardware. This may seem anti Nintendo, but I really am a Nintendo fan at heart. I just don't like to see people complain about things others do when they are right there with them. In all due respect to Miyamoto, Nintendo will continue to pump and milk their own franchises, all the while trying to come up with new cows to milk. and someone posted something about the Zelda games being always original. Were there not 2 Zelda games on the N64 ? They looked awfully similar, but fans will say that since it did not have a 2, then its not really a sequel. Maybe we need to let MS and Sony know that its only derivative if it has a numer in the title. And how many versions of Tetris has Nintendo sold?

And Wii games are same old experinces with a new controller...

But.. I saw this and it made me laugh

Someone posted This list as an example of Nintendo's storytelling... their "Great" storytelling

Paper Mario
Super Mario RPG
Mario and Luigi: SuperStar Saga
Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time
Zelda: take your pick
Metroid: take your pick. Metroid Prime is a shining example
StarFox: take your pick


Alright let's see. First of all, Mario RPG wasn't Nintendo. Most of the credit for that one, story wise goes to Mr. Hironbu Sokogouchi.. Mr. Final Fantasy himself. Paper Mario/Mario & Luigi. Now, I played pretty far through the first M&L games.. and while I'd say it had some quirky characters.... it wasn't a deep memoriable story. Metroid... Storytelling? there is a Story? Other then Samus lands on alien world, Looses all her powers, must kill aliens to regain powers. The stories are told in cutscenes at the beginning and end of the game. And StarFox.. there has never been a story outside of StarFox adventures... and that was basically Rare's Dinosaur Planet, with Star Fox characters thrown in it, and an Andross battle at the end FNAR.

Zelda games are close, but debateable. This is somewhat of a bit of storytelling. but more of.. just world immersion.