DS Lite trumps Xbox 360's trade-in value in Japan [update 1]
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ May 23rd 2006 at 2:55PM }
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According to In fact, 15,000¥ is also the trade-in value for a PSP Value Pack and a slim-line Silver PS2. The original DS models aren't far below that mark, still worth 14,000¥ (about $125).
[Update: redirected to Cheap Ass Gamer's April 4th post, from where this information was lifted over a month and a half later. CAG's CheapyD writes us with some more current information: "Currently, my guess is that the trade-in values of the DS Lite and Xbox 360 are about even. Right before E3, I was actually able to buy a new DS Lite at that very store for 16,800¥ (MSRP)."]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mike @ May 23rd 2006 2:59PM
bah... Japan can continue to like all their weird Characters and anime type games witht he ps3.
Microsoft doesent need japan. North America and Europe combined is 8x larger of a gaming market then Japan is. I dont know why everyone thinks Microsofts needs to win Japan, because they dont. NA is the biggest market. MS needs to win NA.
nintendo fan @ May 23rd 2006 2:59PM
Soon the ds lite will transform into Godzilla lite and destroy Japan with its shinyness and compact size.
Pedro @ May 23rd 2006 3:00PM
In Japan people see the 360 for what it really is a worthless piece of shit.
sonofnone @ May 23rd 2006 3:00PM
I've got one word for Microsoft: ouch! There's nothing quite like having your next-gen console spanked by a portable system to make you feel the pain. Funny stuff.
jojo29 @ May 23rd 2006 3:04PM
@Mike
Yes your right MS doesn't need to win Japan, I'm sure it will do JUST fine, kinda how like Dreamcast huh? ouch didnt remember that one before you posted now did you.
Anyways your partially right. No they dont have to win japan BUT they do have to do something about their drought over there. No Japan= No Japanese support= no game=no game developers and they are like domino's, they all follow each other. N
James @ May 23rd 2006 3:09PM
You can do well in the US without Japan, but you can't DOMINATE the US without Japan.
Microsoft obviously wants full control - that's impossible to achieve without taking the motherland.
idioteraser @ May 23rd 2006 3:12PM
Hmm this story was covered by Cheap ass gamer a long time ago. Say months ago when DSs were going for 400 dollars at auctions and stores will selling used ones for 200 dollars.
I think the 360 is doing somewhat better there now. It's now selling better then the gamecube.
Exo @ May 23rd 2006 3:14PM
Mike, The whole point of getting it to sell in Japan is to get Japanese game companies to work on it.
I can count far more better Japanese franchises then there are good American/Europe franchises.
What does NA have? EA? Outside of sports games all they can make is shit.
A piece of hardware needs to be doing good in all territories so it can get more developers on it thus making more variety.
I hope you Like FPS games because that’s all you will get if it only sells well in NA.
Jason W @ May 23rd 2006 3:14PM
Look the DS lite is selling out in Japan. Its a crazy hard to find rarety. I remember recently the DS had sould out in Japan (IE NO NEW ONES TO BE BOUGHT). This is not suprising to me. When you have a hot item like the DS lite you can get more for it. I plan on getting one when it hits state side. Look at the price of the used DS. Its more than we pay new in the US.
Quang Nguyen @ May 23rd 2006 3:14PM
This just in- Japan is NOT a big fan of the Xbox/Xbox 360! Stay tuned!
Seriously though, the Japanese videogame market is huge, but it's globabl share is diminishing as market growth has stagnated, while the western market continues to grow. So while Japan is very important, it's not quite as important as it used to be. And if a console sells well in Europe and the U.S., Japanese developers will obviously have financial incentive to develop for said console, regardless of how it fares in their home country. To say that poor sales in Japan equates to no Japanese dev support is naive. Obviously being a hit in Japan would increase developer interest, but failing in Japan doesn't mean it will go away entirely.
idioteraser @ May 23rd 2006 3:17PM
The thing is even the handheld market in Japan was declining till the DS hit. Signs of that stagnation are occuring in the US and Europe.
Only reason the industry is more profitable is due to price increases.
A number of people have been saying the number of console gamers has been declining and it is true. 50 million gamers in the US in 1983 now it is like 20 million. Most console buyers are multisystem owners.
Exo @ May 23rd 2006 3:17PM
O RLY Quang? Is that Why xbox got so much japanese suport?
Oh wait, it didnt get any, and it sold like crap in japan... I wonder If there is a connection?
Bored @ May 23rd 2006 3:25PM
Your kidding right? You don't need Japan to win. If I, a make believe Japanese developer, have a market size of Europe and N. America to sell my games, I will develop games that will reach the most gamers in those markets. If the XBox 360 is the biggest seller there, then it would make sense to develop games for that system so that I may make a lot of money. But if I, a make believe Japanese developer, doesn't want to make a lot of money then I will just concentrate on Japan's market. Nintendo and Sony need N. America and Europe infinitely more than Microsoft needs Japan.
jon @ May 23rd 2006 3:27PM
I mean what do you suppose MS do that they already haven't done??? They have made their console smaller and cooler looking...the controller has gotten even smaller. They have drastically improved 3rd party Japanese support...although it may not be enough apparently. MS also had a huge advertising push in Japan before launch. I think Sony and Nintendo are very strong in Japan and are tying up 3rd party support so many titles will never see light of day in Japan.
Also Japanese consumer trends are very different. My limited experience with Japanese Americans...is that they are very nationalistic. Sort of like the Buy American automobile campaign of the 80's. The Japanese market is bent towards Japanese made products.
MS is indeed failing in Japan but I really don't think it's for lack of trying everthing they can to win the hearts of the Japanese.
What's amazing though...is without the Japanese...MS will still reach 10 million units sold this fall. The 360 is doing very well in North America, South America, Europe, Australia and MS is branching out to India later this year.
With the PS3 selling for the equivalent of $800 American Dollars in Europe... I think Sony has paved a tough road ahead of themselves in Europe. Can the 360 survive without Japan? Yes it is and yes it can. Can the PS3 survive without Europe and North America? Definately not.
epobirs @ May 23rd 2006 3:27PM
#1
It isn't just about the sales in Japan. It's also about getting support from Japanese developers who accounts for a major portion of the games sold in the Western markets.
When big Japanese publishers target the Xbox it all too often tend to be with products aimed at their perception of US gamers rather than gamers in general, and despite the brand name the consumers get fewer choices on that platoform. Those games may be published by Konami or Capcom but the developer is a Western operation producing Western games. Which isn't necessarily bad in of itself but part of the PS2's strength is the diversity of its library.
Microsoft doesn't have to make huge sales in Japan to attract more developers there. Just enough to make a modest profit with the promise of much more from US and Europe licensing. Microsoft is paying outright for a small set of high profile games to be produced (Blue Dragon, etc.) but this cannot be done in sufficient volume without a certain amount of native sales to make up the costs.
For instance, say Microsoft foots the bill for a Japanese developers to create an RPG that should be able to move at least a million units in the US. Put the cost of the game at $15 million for everything on the Japanese end: development, marketing, and the actual media production. If those games have a wholesale price of $45 per unit, then they need about 335,000 thousand units to sell in Japan to break even and have the Western versions be the real gravy after a few million in localization and marketing costs. If MS could manage that kind of break even regularly, they could justify a massive capital investment in Japanese developer's projects.
But that takes a minimum installed base. Even if a game is hugely popular it is unlikely to reach more than 40% percent of all owners of the platform it runs on. Something like Blue dragon might manage that in Japan but it means the installed base needs to be close to a million machines for that to be possible. Just a million units in Japan would be terrible compared to the sales momentum elsewhere but for the purpose of getting Japanese games for the Western consumers, it's enough.
Once the big RPG titles Microsoft is subsidizing start to appear, you'll probably see the Xbox 360 become somewhat like the N64 in Japan. Between big nintendo franchise titles like StarFox and Zelda the stores would flood with used N64s. Then when a major new game appeared the used hardware would sell out for a while until the game's audience was satisfied. Those same machines would then get sold off again for the fourth or fifth time. This worked out great for Nintendo but really hurt third party publishers whose games lacked appeal outside of Japan.
Achieving something similar to that is probably the best Microsoft can hope for until they've produced a sufficient range of software to appeal directly to the Japanese mainstream and not just the minority who go in heavily for Western style games. The real goal this generation should be getting more of what we want from Japanese developers and leaving mainstream acceptance for some point further down the road.
twism @ May 23rd 2006 3:31PM
Japanese don't buy American products period. You put any American product in Japan or any other European product it will crash and burn. Maybe thats why their economy is doing really well...yeah right.
capiton @ May 23rd 2006 3:32PM
man that thing tanked over there. what happened to all the japanese devs? must be working with nintendo and sony.
xbox 1 had shit for japanese devs too.
Atleast with ps3 there will be worldwide devs. Then again there should be if your dropping 6 bills on system.
capiton @ May 23rd 2006 3:33PM
13 what about cars? I heard they like corvettes
Tom @ May 23rd 2006 3:33PM
Without winning in Japan microsofts market share isn't going to expand much simply because there isn't going to japanese developer support and so there aren't going to be more variation in games. Something they desperatly need.
Oh and also the market size of america and europe is no where near 8 times the size of Japan. I unfortunatly could only find sales figures as recent as the end of 2004 which is annoying as i used to be able to get up to mid 2005.
Anyway i will include xbox, gc, ps2, gba+sp, ds, psp
Japan: 41.88million
Europe: 55.66million
America: 90.35million
So thats actually closer to 3.5times bigger. So saying the Japanese market doesn't matter is ridiculous. Im not sure how sales went after that either, its share may have risen. Also i don't have figures for the amount of games purchased per console sold. As software figures are the most important thing. I mean for all we know Japanese software sales could be equal to europes. Not to mention a huge amount of developers are Japanese and aim there products at the Japanese market. Without being able to sell in Japan Microsoft aren't going to make any huge improvements in market share.
The funny thing is I always imagine the xbox360 sales in Japan is probably a huge amount of the foreigners over there lol. I've seen a few posts on gamefaqs from guys saying they are in the american miltary in Japan and that loads of guys at the bases bought an xbox360.
Source for sales: http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=14306
If anyone finds more update console sales for the ps2,gc,xbox,ds+lite,psp that would be great.
Night Elve @ May 23rd 2006 3:34PM
@ 1
Im not sure about that. I know that if you mix the American market and the European you will have more future customers, but im pretty sure that for tatical reasons they need to sell well in Japan.
Anyway i complete agree with #12.
Boycott Japan @ May 23rd 2006 3:36PM
You know I am tired of this. Japanese basically boycott american automobiles and refuse to buy them. They now are basically boycotting the Xbox 360 in favor of Sony's and Nintendo's machines. I am tired of this little nonsense. It is time that we start being patriotic here in America. Lets only buy consoles because they are American and that would leave Microsoft as king.
Regardless I dont see Sony or Nintendo touching Microsoft here in the states. Afterall the 360 will pass 10 million units before the PS3 or Wii (dumb name) are released.
The Wii is a gimmick and the PS3 is just a Blu Ray player.
I am an american so lets by Xbox 360 and boycott the other crap. Europe you basically founded America so you must by American too.
idioteraser @ May 23rd 2006 3:37PM
Also Mcdonald's is really popular. Any japanese anime will have a MCdonald's logo in it just the M turned to a W to avoid issues.
Lots of American products are very popular in Japan. Lots of American chains are. Namely because not only do they offer American food but because they also have some Japanese dishes.
You do have very successul Japanese burger chains that are popular with the same crowd that goes to McDonald's.
There is one thing that the Japanese burger joints have including their McDonald's and Burger Kings that I wish the US would have. That is Terikayi Burgers.
They should be a no brainer make them a limited time offer and I am sure they would sell like hotcakes. Even a restaurant should have a terikayi burger selection.
epobirs @ May 23rd 2006 3:38PM
#10
I really have to contest those numbers. At the height of the pre-Crash era it was still a novelty to go to someone's home for thr first time and see a game system. Today I'd be far more suprised NOT to see one. Also, don't let online forums distort your perceptions. Out in the real world where most people don't hang around sites like this and CAG, gaming is a much lesser part of people's lives. Most people can own and use their bicycle regularly without hanging around bicyqle.com for the latest trivial news. Most people spend a fair amount on movies every year, in theaters and at home, but how many recognize aintitcool.com?
I'd feel confident betting that most console owners have only one platform, and that most multi-platofrm ownership start with a combination of settop and portable before a second settop enter the picture. It doesn't take too many of use multi-platform freaks to create an online echo chamber that makes us feel like a majority.
burnt_secondary @ May 23rd 2006 3:39PM
I think what we are potentially going to see is a dramatic split in developers and what market they choose to support.
For example, didn't Ubisoft recently state that they really didn't care about the Japanese market anymore? Their games don't sell well there, they don't get any support from Japanese retailers so why bother with the country? (I think I saw this reported on Joystiq a few months back.) I'm sure you can still get their games in Japan but the developers aren't too worried on how they will sell.
Anyway, as Japan continues to loose market share Japanese developers are going to have to look at what Western gamers like and try and adjust to them, when in the past Western companies had to try and make something that Japanese gamers liked. I think Capcom for one, is playing this balancing act very well.
Things are changing, I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, but this console generation is going to really bring some major changes in the world wide market place for the industry.
Speaking of . . . when was the last time a Western company was a major console maker . . . Atari? I have a feeling we may see a real split in which console Asian and Western gamers choose this go around.
Jay @ May 23rd 2006 3:41PM
Wow, Mike is really stupid huh!
It isn't about gaining a larger market for more customers per se, but about getting Japanese developers on board. More Japanese sales=more chance of devs taking note and releasing their funky, sell a million games that the PS2, GC, GBA and DS have.
They need japan. They need decent japanese games. if they got the Kingdom Hearts, the Dragon Warrior/Quest, the huge selling RPG's then people in the US won't buy them on alternate consoles but on the japanese ones.
Bart Lee @ May 23rd 2006 3:41PM
#12 - MS will have SHIPPED 10 million units. Don't confuse that with SOLD. I've seen a ton of 360's sitting around at Best Buy lately. Not trying to be a fanboy - hell, I own a 360. But they really do need some sort of presence in Japan or we'll never get cool games like Resident Evil or Shadow of the Colossus on it. God, can you imagine SOTC in high def?
idioteraser @ May 23rd 2006 3:46PM
Gamer as in people who play the games. Back in the atari days the whole family played. Tell me how many gamers have their parents play their game console? Not very many.
It is a declining market. Why do you think Nintendo wants to get all the nongamers and lasped gamers back into gaming because the gamer populace isn't growing like it should.
And yes Atari, Colecovision were pretty much household names. Arcades were king.
josh @ May 23rd 2006 3:47PM
"A number of people have been saying the number of console gamers has been declining and it is true. 50 million gamers in the US in 1983 now it is like 20 million. Most console buyers are multisystem owners."
How can this be true? The PS2 is the largest selling console of all time (103 million). 4x as many as the 2600 (25 million), 40 million more than the NES (60 million). (all according to Wikipedia)
The game market may be less than 83, when gamers were buying 2600s AND swarming the arcades, but the console game market seems to be way bigger than then. The difference is that the arcade culture of the 80s is pretty much long gone.
Clint @ May 23rd 2006 3:48PM
Someone from Microsoft said "We can't win without Japan." I saw the video this morning on one of these comments. They were talking about how important Japan is. I guess they are taking that back now that their console has flopped!
Rick Giampietro @ May 23rd 2006 3:48PM
Does anyone know if there are any region restrictions on the Japanese Xbox360? My wife is japanese and we have realives in Tokyo - I'd like to buy one used to play here in the US and I'm wondering if there are any major issues such as region encoding/lockouts, video compatability, etc. Thx.
epobirs @ May 23rd 2006 3:48PM
#17
American military personnel are unlikely to buy a Japanese Xbox 360. First, they by and large lack enough command of the language to make it a good choice, and second, they usually want something that they can bring back with them to the US without hassles when their hitch is up. The on-base stores typically offer a pretty good selection of games, often at prices well discounted from what US civilians see in regular retail outlets. Third, what would there be on the Japanese Xbox they couldn't have soon enough in English, compared to the sea of PS2 games that never get translated?
In the case of the FPS heavy Xbox 360, the incentive to stick with a US unit would be pretty high for military guys. Those wanting Japanese games may still run into the language issue and buy the Western versions for their PS2s while a certain number pick up the language and go in big for the really local stuff.
Pedro @ May 23rd 2006 3:51PM
The 360 will not sell 10 million by the end of the year. Between NA and Japan they didn't get to 300,000 in April. Without the japanese the 360 is as good as dead. I'll bet the 360 sells less than the Xbox.
idioteraser @ May 23rd 2006 3:52PM
Wrong 100 million units shipped. Shipped. Sony doesn't release their sold to consumer numbers.
In reality it is more like 50 million units with a lot of those not even being used to play games due to dvd becoming popular and people seeing the ps2 as a cheap dvd player. Also count in all those replacment units bought.
It's not just who buys the console who is the gamer it is anybody else in the family who plays it a lot. Think about this a DS in japan may be played by your grandmother, grandfather, your parents, their children. Maybe eight people all buying games to match their tastes. Now more then likely they will buy more DSs. A console is different since it's screen is the tv. Now a PS2 I doubt your grandparents play it nor your parents. Now the Atari on the other hand they all would play it and often buy games for it. Games to meet their tastes.
So yes there are more gamers for the Atari then the PS2.
SmilingAssassin @ May 23rd 2006 4:00PM
Why in the hell does anyone care what the Japanese are buying. I really don't get it. Can somebody tell me what kind of beer they drink so I can go out and get one. I like sushi, maybe someone should right an article over there about how americans love sushi. I don't give a crap about who likes what but everyday I have to hear about what Japan is buying. I'm American and it's tiresome.
nootau @ May 23rd 2006 4:03PM
@12 "What's amazing though...is without the Japanese...MS will still reach 10 million units sold this fall. The 360 is doing very well in North America, South America, Europe, Australia and MS is branching out to India later this year."
i agree 100% with this statement, its amazing that the 360 may reach 10 million by the fall. But this also speaks volumns about the pontiential sell-through of the PS3 (and possibly even the Wii). The Japanese alone could easily buy 10 million PS3s in one year, and Sony could just as easily sell 10 million in that same year in the US! It is going to be a very interesting race. If Sony cant keep up with demand, the 360 could have some breathing room to grow big time...
burnt_secondary @ May 23rd 2006 4:03PM
I guess now would be a good time to say . . . "Joystiq is a bunch of Xbox haters!!!!!!"
Still love ya guys.
Ani @ May 23rd 2006 4:03PM
>In Japan people see the 360 for what it really is a worthless piece of shit.
Have you spoken to everyone in Japan then? I doubt it, Simply dismissing the 360 as "shit" is ridiculous.
epobirs @ May 23rd 2006 4:04PM
#24
It may have been portrayed that way in TV ads but real life? Please. Most parents during the Atari 2600 era saw it as a passing novelty and in most families it was soon solely the kids playing.
Today is far different. The average parent now grew up with vidio games and is far more likely to play than their predecessors. The then young adult who bought the first 2600 games may today be a grandparent and still playing at least occasionally. (My sister received a 2600 as a wedding present back in 1979 but didn't have kids until husband 2.0. Otherwise she could easily fit that profile.)
Cabbage Patch Kid was a household name but did that make it a adult product beyond a few neurotic women? In the early 90s parent stood in line for Power Ranger toys but they didn't want the things for themselves. Nor did they personally desire the cackling homunculus known as Tickle Me Elmo.
In most of the sections of Toys R Us you can be pretty sure any adult you see is shopping for a child. The exceptions are where they stock the collectibles, RC gear, and video games. A lone adult in the R-Zone might just as easily be shopping for himself as for a kid and feel far less self-conscious about than twenty years before.
Buckshot @ May 23rd 2006 4:04PM
Old, old, news. Lets see some current numbers. I have not purchased a DS. I think my handheld interest may be waining. I hardly ever use my psp, except for watching pr0n. Most of time spent on PC with CoH/CoV or on the 360
Hart704 @ May 23rd 2006 4:04PM
A DS worth more than an Xbox 360 in Japan? Tell me somthing I don't know.
josh @ May 23rd 2006 4:05PM
"In reality it is more like 50 million units with a lot of those not even being used to play games due to dvd becoming popular and people seeing the ps2 as a cheap dvd player."
If you think that there are 50 million PS2s sitting on shelves somewhere, you are pretty misguided. By all accounts, it's by far the best selling console ever.
Also, very few people I have met use their PS2 as their primary DVD player.
look here for a list of best-selling games. Scroll down to the by-system list. Note that the PS2's list is the longest. Note that only 3 Atari games sold more than 1 million copies.
Also, look at the media create sales lists which get posted here fairly often. Those are independently tracked sales lists, not from Sony, and you can see how many PS2s have been sold in the Japanese market - the number is quite high.
"It's not just who buys the console who is the gamer it is anybody else in the family who plays it a lot. Think about this a DS in japan may be played by your grandmother, grandfather, your parents, their children."
No offense, but a console in the living room is a lot more likely to be played by multiple people than a handheld. Part of the reason why handhelds have such high sales is precisely because everyone in the family wants one- especially with the DS coming out with games like Mario Kart which can be played together (as long as everyone has a DS). With one console, 2-4 people can play. To replicate that on a handheld, you need 2-4 handhelds.
josh @ May 23rd 2006 4:07PM
Also, I'm no Sony fanboy - I have all three last gen systems, am definitely getting a Wii, possibly getting a 360, and probably not getting a PS3 (until the price hits $150 in 3-4 years). However, I acknowledge that the PS2 was the biggest seller of the last gen, by quite a big margin. This looks like it will be significantly reduced in the next go-round, but we shall see.
josh @ May 23rd 2006 4:08PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best_selling_video_games
sorry, joystiq ate my link
I boycott @ May 23rd 2006 4:09PM
I am boycotting all Japanese consoles and games because they basically boycott everything American and European. They dont by our cars or are game systems. I an american from europe by an Xbox 360 and say to heck with PS3 and the dumbass Wii which novelty, gimmicky, controller is already losing its appeal
riffgod @ May 23rd 2006 4:11PM
I think the DS Lite will be quite a hot commodity when it comes out here in the U.S. in a couple of weeks too.
Cloud @ May 23rd 2006 4:16PM
It's simple economics. Supply and demand; the 360 isn't selling, hence an oversupply, while the ds is unavailable hence the demand. So of course the ds lite will be more valuable than the 360. No one wants it.
BlackYoshi @ May 23rd 2006 4:16PM
idioteraser, its 103 million shipped, with estimates at like 95-100 million sold. Are you seriously suggesting that there are 50 million unsold PS2s sitting there? Why would Sony keep making them? Just to say there are 103 million out there. If you remove "eraser" from your name, it fits you perfectly. I'm a huge Nintendo fan, but you are what is known as a Nintendo moron, or someone who follows their every word and believes every thing of it, and that they and all their policies are infallible and the work of God almighty himself.
OyoyoY123 @ May 23rd 2006 4:17PM
hey~!!!!!!!!!
WHY NOT go to japan and import their USED XBOX 360???????????????????????????
I want a 360 for a long time now and most of the games i want are japn games anyways..
16,800¥ =~ 168 canadian = 145 USD....that is hell of a deal!!!!!!!!!
Ian @ May 23rd 2006 4:21PM
The problems with Japan is that its whole market only likes a few types of games. They don't really go outside of their genres. I say screw Japan, Microsoft, and just take over Europe and the US, since Japan can just make their own damn shit games.
epobirs @ May 23rd 2006 4:23PM
#32
Please, some reality here. Sony announced their hundred million units shipped figure quite a while back. That figure has since been updated to several million more.
Does that mean all of those units are sold? No, but it comes within a few percent. Consider for a moment the physical volume of the PS2, even the current model, and multiply that by a million. Sony isn't going to keep cranking out millions more PS2s if the retail channel isn't absorbing them and the retail channel isn't going to order more units if they aren't selling out their previous shipments.
The 'PS2 bought solely for DVD playback' was a very shortlived phenomenon and largely limited to Japan. Prices ran higher there and the launch price was comparatively low. In the US DVD decks were already down below $300 when the PS2 launch and dropping fast. The PS2 only represented a good deal if you wanted both the gaming and DVD playback.
PS2 used exclusively as PS2 players seems very unlikely to account for more than a mere million early units and chances are pretty high that those consumers have since moved on to better dedicated decks and sold off their PS2s to those more likely to buy games. In the US I'd venture that the number of PS2s playing DVDs and not games is vanishingly small.
And replacement units? Again, don't let the echo chamber distort your perceptions. Those who've had a problem are far more likely to mention it aloud than those of us with units that worked perfectly from day 1. All it takes is some ambulance chasers to organize a class action suit to make a minor issue seem like a disaster but the software sales and overall revenues for Sony's regional gaming divisions just doesn't indicate the failure and non-use rate you suggest.