DS Lite trumps Xbox 360's trade-in value in Japan [update 1]

"I am boycotting all Japanese consoles and games because they basically boycott everything American and European."

http://www.apple.com/jp/ipod/
http://www.levi.com/japan/_06SSStaytrue/index.html
http://www.mcdonalds.co.jp/

I could go on and on, but the url limit here is three.

I don't think I really need to point out how ignorant your comment was, though. But you and everyone else who thinks that way really needs to stop it right now. You're totally out of your element arguing about what people in countries you obviously know nothing about do and don't like.

#29

I think there are restrictions for the 360, but it is up to the game developers.
that is, on PS2,xb, GC, the restrictions are universal, and are "pre-set" features on the systems.
But 360 allows game developers to decide for themselves, so some games might be resticted and some game might not

BUT I AM REALLY NOT SURE!................^^
I would ask this question on gamefaqs

How the hell did I get -1 star the instant that I posted my comment???

guys Japanese do buy American products. how many pc's over in Japan do you think are running windows? please name one japanese operating system? and btw, the ipod sells like hotcakes in japan, probably even more so than the ds.

To comment #6 - That's about the funniest comment I have ever read in a gaming forum, anywhere. The video game is an American developed industry. Until the late 80's/ early 90's... Japan didn't mean shit in the gaming world.

Silicon Valley ruled the whole industry until the Japanese came up and swiped it from us, under our noses. Just like they do with everything else. Learn your gaming roots, people.

BTW - Not one console developed outside Japan has ever succeded there. The Japanese are very xenophobic people. They look at objects made by the rest of the world as garbage.

Japan means nothing to me but bad RPG's, shitty anime, and dementedly weird people.

to all the people saying "screw Japan", think about this-

You cannot take America without FF and MGS. You cannot take Europe without the former two and Pro Evo.

You can't get FF, MGS or Pro Evo as exclusives or at the same time as Sony if you don't get Japanese developers. You won't get Japanese developers to treat you the same as they treat Sony if you dont take Japan.

Maybe if some good games came out of America, the Xbox would have a chance without taking Japan. But they don't, so you're screwed.

Who really gives a fuck about Japan and what kind of games they like?
I honestly can't remember the last Japanese game I bought and didn't return the next day.

#53, Andrew: wtf? We're talking about GAMING CONSOLES. Can comments get banned here? Because that's one that deserves to if I've ever seen one. Same with Diskoboy; could racism please keep its nasty head OUT OF GAMING BLOGS?

I agree with whoever said above that definitely at least 100 million PS2's have been sold in America, I don't know what the 50 million person has been talking about. I also agree that Japan is -less- important than it used to be, but still -very- important for Microsoft.

And Japanese people aren't avoiding the 360 because it's American. A belief like that doesn't understand the consumer make-up of Japan. At ALL. Michael Jackson still does really well there, the iPod sells well, they even like Paris Hilton when WE don't (no really, she launched a line of purses there that sell very well and gets mobbed when she visits). Lots of American things do excellent there. It doesn't mean there's not a backlash among some with an anti-Western prejudice, but I think a nationalist-portion of the population is inherent to any country. As we can see with ridiculous examples of some Americans posting on these walls who make me ashamed to stand with them.

As for the developers, epobir made an intelligent statement about an installed base being a huge factor for Japanese developers, which Microsoft just doesn't have and will have to compensate for. What hasn't been said is that MS doesn't have a killer app of any sort for Japanese buyers. They didn't like the 360's line-up, and that was poor, poor marketing for MS not to have known that.

Also, I thought the point of this article was just "wow, the DS sells like crazy.. unlike the 360," not "why Japan hates the 360." I completely agree with Josh that one of the selling powers that the 360 can't possibly ever have of the DS is that if people want to play together, they *have* to buy multiple DS's. I know that when my sisters and I were kids, we had three separate GameBoys so we could play at the same time and against each other.

Btw, it's surprisingly easy to have non-gamers play handhelds versus TV. Because if you're trapped on a very long cartrip, anything goes. Once you're at home, they can run away. :)

Epobirs: "Nor did they personally desire the cackling homunculus known as Tickle Me Elmo." My favorite joystiq quote, ever.

Thanks Jeff for posting that. I was about too. Its funny how Americans claim the Japanese are nationalistic and won't buy american products and that they should boycott Japanese stuff. As Jeff proved the Japanese don't buy 360's as the games don't appeal to them. Not because its american, they love american culture in general and many american products/companies do very very well. Starbucks would be another good one.

''The Japs are still pissed about Hiroshima. What they always forget though is Pearl Harbor. YOU ATTACKED FIRST AND GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED!!!''

Well actually the first shot fired was by the Americans, earlier that day they had attacked a Japanese submarine. Japan were still probably going to attack but technically speaking America attacked first.

Oh and although yes the ps2 has sold more than 100million more than 50% of the people i know with a ps2 have either upgraded to a slimline or had to have a replacement or in some cases both. So i would say that although not a huge amount quite a big amount are replacement units or upgrading to slimline. I would say thats definetly over 10million.

''The problems with Japan is that its whole market only likes a few types of games. They don't really go outside of their genres.''
Erm yea ok whatever says someone defending the xbox360 something where a HUGE amount of games are shooters/sports/racers.

''Today is far different. The average parent now grew up with vidio games and is far more likely to play than their predecessors. ''

In my experience thats untrue. My dad used to play Sonic and a lot of master system and mega drive games with me. Now he says they are too complicated. Its not even as though its just because he is getting old (although that probably is a tiny bit) either as he is still in great shape and an incredible squash player. I think i actually only know 1person whos dad plays video games. And his dad plays them a lot lol.

''Why in the hell does anyone care what the Japanese are buying. I really don't get it.''
Covered so many times. Developers.

The 360 won't sell well in Japan as it doesn't have the right games. Yes it has better developer support than the xbox but going from practically none to very very little isn't going to change much. I mean when 99knights and Doa4 were released the 360 saw an increase in sales. It was still very low sales but what do you expect, those aren't killer titles and its only 2 games.

@Andrew

"The Japs are still pissed about Hiroshima. What they always forget though is Pearl Harbor. YOU ATTACKED FIRST AND GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED!!!"

So your patriotic stupidity blind you is not? Did they deserve a Nuclear bomb? the anwser is NO, no one deserve being attack for this horrify weapon.

And about they attacked first, well still exist the controversial of how was the first in attack.

yeah Japan Doesnt hate america... hell there's a whole fashion/what have you movement over there where american products are VERY VERY popular (hell sometimes even more than they are here) the reason the 360 doesn't sell in Japan as most have stated is NOT because they dont like american products, its because to break into ANY kind of foreign market you have to research the cultural differences... what sells here may not sell there and vice versa.

And please stop all the Japan sucks, etc comments, i'm not japanese (Nor remotely anything close). But its the "F the world, american is number 1" sentiment that is getting our products buried in other markets. You people have to realize that if america is going to remain number one, we need to get in touch with this nifty thing called "Globalization".
Hell half the american products aren't even manufactured in america!

So please come off, and to those who say "I dont play japanese games, f'em" etc. Its just that kind of reasoning that Xbox barely was able to overtake the "kiddy" GC.
Games have to appeal to all people that means FPS/RPGs/Sports games/Action/Puzzle/etc. Just because you dont like import products, doesnt mean the rest of the country is as closed minded. I'm willing to bet ya half the games you claim you LOVE aren't even made in america.

ahem those media outlets don't clarify if they are saying the shipped or sold numbers.

Do you know how many units the Saturn shipped in it's first year? Not as many as they sold. Sega boosted about it's shipped numbers and called them sales. Even the media didn't differante.

Sony doesn't release it's sold numbers and most retailers news outlets repeat the shipped number as a sold number.

Btw Sony still sold the PS1 long after they stopped making it. They are planning to sell the PS2 for the next ten years you know? Guess what they won't be making that many if at all once the PS3 comes out. They will sell those units from their warehouses.

Warehouses can contain millions of units. Sony doesn't have it' factories make PS2s nonstop you know they shut them down for months at a time.

Replacement units, units damaged in transit, stolen from store units, ware house units all of them are shipped numbers.

Sony doesn't release the sold numbers. Nintendo on the other hand does.

Sorry lots of companies have used the shipped sold routine to inflate their prescence when in reality they lost tons of money.

Tell me if Sony is so successful why does their game division make less then Nintendo does every year?

Nintendo produced titles often sell to half or a third of the console sales numbers yet most PS2 titles don't even break a few hundred thousand. And even the best selling ones don't even break a 1/5 of the number of playstations you claim were sold.

And btw the N64 best sellers beat out anything the PS2 had in terms of sales same with the PS1.

Wow, was anyone on that game list amazed that Nintendogs looks like it might outsell the original Halo? I think that is something worth noting and that Alex Kidd for the Master System sold almost 5 million copies. I don't even know anyone who ever had a Master system let alone Alex Kidd.

Also worth noting, is look at DS game sales over PSP sales on that chart. I think it is also funny that a game like Brain Age or Animal Crossing outsells the portable Grand Theft Auto.

In the end of this generation's console wars, I am probably picking up a Wii at launch (and a DS lite June 11th), maybe a 360 after its first price drop (or maybe when the 399 version goes down to 250), and maybe a PS3 when it goes down to 200 dollars or maybe 250. I never like to spend more than that for a console.

The wii is gaining a lot of developer support but mostly in Japan. That may be due to how the japanese have really taking off in embracing the new gameplay concepts the DS has brought.

A certain poll in Japan showed a lot of negative reaction to the PS3 price with a lot saying they would only buy if there was a drastic price reducation. And the reaction to the plan for retailer sale of the PS3 in Japan doesn't instill a lot of confidance either.

To #28, you're dumb.
The PS2 sold about 40 to 50 million consoles,
not 103 million (they shipped 100 million), and they only sold 40-50 million PS2's because of all the defective ones, so they had them replaced. Ie, most people have had about 2 PS2's, due to the laser
being dead or another reason, or buying the newer slim-line version. Everyones Xbox lived so thats why it sold around 25 million, so they didn't have to have it replaced. Also, about 50% of all people that bought a PS2 only bought it because of how easily you could get it chipped and play pirate games, Got it? Good. :)

Geez, calm down people.

Why don't the Japanese like the 360? Are they anti-American?

No. But the cost of living in Japan is high, because land is expensive when you live on a series of islands. Same goes for electricity. Living space tends to be a a premium, and they prefer their electronics small and convenient. The XBOX was a big ugly powerhog. The 360 is prettier, but still a giant powerhog. It's also quite expensive, and it doesn't have the support of a lot of Japanese developers, and those are the games the Japanese buy because those are the ones they've bought since the current incarnation of the game industry started up with Nintendo.

Why does the DS sell so well?

The Japanese spend a ton of time taking public transportation (since fewer of them have cars, unlike in the US, where everyone drives everywhere). Often, with people they know. Handheld gaming systems flourish in Japan because they're fun to play in transit, especially ones that you can play together. The DS has wireless multiplayer, a wireless chat, and is, most importantly, cheaper and more portable than the PSP. It is ideal for all that time spent on public transit with people who probably take it with you the same time every day/week.

Now, the DS has sold so well in Japan that it's reached something of a critical mass. No longer do you have to already know someone else with a DS on the train or at the park-- at this point in Japan, it's a safe assumption. Pretty much everyone there can buy a DS (for less than a PSP or 360 or whatever it is people think should outsell the DS this time), hop on a morning train, and find a free game of Mario Kart or something to play in. If someone else has the game, you don't even need it.

Wait until they come out with a true classic-style Pokemon on DS. Then you'll see some ridiculous Japanese sales numbers.

#16: Can you tell me why then are American music and fashion is so popular in Japan??

#65 your logic is astounding. Do you bag my groceries?

Honestly, I can't name a single Japanese-style game I like that ISN'T on a Nintendo console. I'm old-school. My first console was PONG, followed by Atari 2600, Intellivision, and Odyssey2. All those games were developed by Americans, and I just grew to prefer western-style games. Even when arcades got a ton of Japanese games (Donkey Kong, Pac Man, etc.) I still preferred playing PITFALL at home on my 2600. Sure, there were some good Japanese arcade games, and I whiled away hours playing Street Fighter II, Taito Champion Wrestler, and Galaga.

These days, I might still play some SFII, and I will probably pick up Smackdown vs RAW 2007 (Yukes), but that's as Japanese as my games get. I absolutely hate Japanese style "RPG" games (I prefer western RPGs, thanks) and I'm not fond of Metal Gear Solid or any of those chatty games the Japanese are known for. I don't like super-deformed characters or anime style, either.

Now, I might like Nintendo's games every once in a while. You can't argue with the great gameplay on the Mario games, and Pokemon can be addictive sometimes, but with the presence of the Wii, I don't see a need to get into Sony's Japanese developers.

Gran Turismo 5? No thanks. I'll play Test Drive Unlimited or Need For Speed Underground if I really want a car game. Final Fantasy? No thanks, I'm having a blast with Oblivion (and I'm not stuck watching a bunch of bad cartoons featuring spiky-haired effeminate boys, either). Katamari Damacy? Eh. It's cute (but weird). I'm sure there will be an option to play it on the DS or Wii, though.

And then finally, you add the rabid, senseless, lying fanboys to the Sony camp (I think we all know one or two who post here) and you get a playing environment that doesn't make me feel very welcome as a gamer.

Nahh . . . I think I'll skip Sony this time, and stick with Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, and Xbox 360.

"Yes your right MS doesn't need to win Japan, I'm sure it will do JUST fine, kinda how like Dreamcast huh? ouch didnt remember that one before you posted now did you."

WTF?

Dreamcast: A Japanese console made by a Japanese company with 100 million dollars in worldwide marketing budget. A console that never had EA support. A console that many people didn't buy after losing faith in Sega's 32X and Saturn debacles.

X360: An American multi-billion-dollar company failing to sell its console in Japan because none of its games appeal to Japanese players, but are doing very well in NA and Europe.

I really can't see the similarities here. The fact that they're both white doesn't count.

well,u arrogant americans must understand,u r not the only people that embrace racist.

In japan,PS3 is basically compared with Wii,when somebody said like:"we should not forget there's a machine called Xbox360." a dozen replies to this would be"That's an AMERICAN console."

Japanese actually fear foreigners,u cant go to public baths or traditional restaurants or even enjokosai (call a student prostitute)in japan cuz you are a foreigner.

However, that s not big deal at all, japanese market is still in its big depression, with its importance just declining.Leave that to Wii, it ll give PS3 hell just like DS to PSP. giving 3 to 4 yrs time,we will see MS conquers the world while Wii conquers japan,and then? just like PC history, Japanese lay in their nice little domestic protectist market, and fail.

THE TRUTH ABOUT JAPAN:

The Japanese SUPPORT the homeland companies and not those of the West "U.S.A" Think how well Ford, and GM sell in Japan, NOT WELL AT ALL. This is what Microsoft was up against, NATIONAL Loyality, not which one is better or worse but LOYALITY. We as Americans cannot understand this because we SUPPORT foreign products wholly, Honda, Toyota, Sony, etc.... Its not as deep as we make it out to be why the 360 isnt successful in Japan.

bottom line... ITS BEING LOYAL TO YOUR COUNTRY

Also add in that load times are detreminental to a portable gaming device. Someone on the train needs a fast loading game with a quick save system or that can be put in a standby for a few hours till they get a break. The DS wins overwhelmingly in that regard.

Quite a number of DS games do have a wireless mode where you don't need the game card but a few do.

Also the Nintendogs bark mode and Metroid Prime Hunters rival radar make a lot of sense if you figure in Japan. It's solid gold over there. Odds are in the Japanese transit system with all those stations a DS in standby is going to be finding other DSs with the same game in standby.

Ford GM don't even sell well in America for the most part either.

It's called Fuel Economy.

Look at the number of top car sellers in America and guess what those American companies aren't among them.

Tell does Ford have a dealership in Japan? Guess what corvettes and Rolls Royce are in Japan.

If Ford wanted to make it big in Japan or any other country they would have to make an extremly well built product with a high fuel economy that doesn't require a lot of maintance.

"72. THE TRUTH ABOUT JAPAN:

The Japanese SUPPORT the homeland companies and not those of the West "U.S.A" Think how well Ford, and GM sell in Japan"

The truth about american cars: They suck big time. All of them.

Thats the only reason why no one is buying american cars. Even the americans themselves buy toyotas and BMWs today.

Comparing games, consoles or whatever with american cars is totally useless. Stop comparing now!

Btw is there still a shortage of DSes in Japan? Are they still being sold at auction for hundreds of bucks?

Man Nintendo needs to open up a dozen more factories if they get that success with the lite they had in Japan replicated in the US and Europe.

Because as I said earlier this Joystiq article is a few months old.

"16. Japanese don't buy American products period. You put any American product in Japan or any other European product it will crash and burn. Maybe thats why their economy is doing really well...yeah right. "

Oh please, Japanese people basically worship Americans. They think their so cool and like our stuff. (This from my Japanese Japanese-language teacher)

Ever see Japanese shirts that say stuff like "Me Like Cheese" and "I am a person" and other useless and stupid english words, but in Japan they sell because they look cool. Ever see Hiragana or Kanji on American shirts?? no, americans hate Japan. When you see americans with foreign writing on their shirts, most people laugh at them.

So there you have it, Japanese don't hate Americans or their products, unless it's a stupid sports game.

OMG Major Moves we have listed loads of products and companies that succeed in Japan. America is much more nationalistic than Japan. I mean ffs you remake movies simply because you feel the need to put white american actors in them. No real reason for it but that. Apple completly dominate the mp3 business in Japan despite the fact there are a huge amount of japanese companies providing mp3's.

Will people please stop talking about cars btw, fuel prices are pretty high in Japan so its no wonder your gas guzzlers don't sell. Not to mention parking spaces, size of streets are often small too. So big american cars would be useless. And as pointed out you Americans aren't even buying your own cars much so why do you expect other people to?

And idioteraser judging by the weekly sales i would say yes there probably is still a shortage, sales still look to be at the maximum amount nintendo are supplying. I imagine the release of super mario bros will do wonders for sales too. Apparently pre-orders are around 800k. So its likely the ds lite is going to be sold out for a while. I hope that there are enough for launch in Europe X.X

Microsoft is going to come in third this generation, that seems pretty obvious to me. The lackluster sales(a good deal less than the original xbox), no japanese market penetration, less expressive european showing, being an inferior machine technically to the PS3(in the long run it is going to show) and a strong lack of broad genre support(sports + fps aren't even the biggest selling games in the industry). And don't even get into calling me a fanboy, I have a 360. Just calling it as I see it. The big ???s now are:

a. If they'll turn profit on the 360 eventually? How are they going to do this when the manufacturing cost for the 360 is going up instead of down? Ouch.

b. If they'll widen console support for their aquired developers(like they did to the ds with age of empire and diddy kong racing)? Probably the only way to keep their in house development teams afloat over th next 4 years.

c. If there will be a third xbox console? With the 360 faring much worse than the original xbox at this juncture, one has to wonder at the future of the franchise. Microsoft would obviously make a lot more money supporting Sony and Nintendo.

d. If the live service will become free in order to compete with the free wii and ps3 free internet gaming? Live is already crawling with advertisements, there is no validation for charging for such a service. If anything, 3rd party developers have often criticized the forced live experience as too heavyhanded and the network as being too constrictive for complex online gaming. In paticular large MMO makers like Blizzard, Sigil and NCSoft have criticized the funtionality of the network.

e. Will hd-dvd be supported by anyone at all? Lets face it, noone is going to make games for a peripheral with a 60% adoption rate(which is an awesome adoption rate for an expensive gaming peripheral) when they can target a larger audience in the non hd-dvd gaming arena. And 80% of the movie companies are already behind blu-ray. The rest will follow suit.

f. How soon will they drop the price? The sooner the better for the consumer but it will bode ill for the company, the 360 has actually gone up, not down, in respects to how much they cost to make now as opposed to in last September. If they lower price, they'll be doing it to move units because of poor sales, not because the system is cheaper to make.

g. How many of the development companies they aquired as subsidiaries(most as hostile takeovers) over the last 3 years will they shut down over 2007? If they push Vista with the ironfist, I don't see Microsoft keeping open all of these developing houses that are going to be spending more money making games that will sell to even less people.

Some of this stuff I think I know the answer to. The sheer amount of money Microsoft has spent on advertising should have them doing really well at this juncture. That's how things work in politics, popularity and pretty much everything else under the sun. But it isn't and that has to be firghtening for Microsoft. Microsoft has probably spent more money on advertising alone in the past year than Nintendo and Sony will spend on their consoles todgether over the next 5 years. I'm looking for a bright side to the 360's future but I do not see it. All I know for certain is that I'll play some pretty good sports games on my 360, outside of that...the future is dim.

The PS3 online being free? Funny how nothing has come up supporting that since Sony isn't establishing the PS3 online functionality between the games on the console. It's up to the parties wheter they charge a fee.

Nintendo wifi is the only one that has been stated to be free namely because unless a mmo gets established there won't be game servers it's all friend codes.

Due to the lack of success with UMD, some people are thinking blu-ray will be the next betamax. HD-DVD has cheaper players even as an addon. Also it seems more support studio wise on the HD-DVD.

Btw developers who have access to both PS3 and Xbox 360 say any PS3 game can be put on the 360 and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. In fact a lot of complaints have come about on the PS3 development side. PS3 is losing a lot of it's exclusives and they are going to the 360 from what is being muttered in game development circles.

The Japanese developers aren't happy with the PS3 from reports all support was before the price announcement and more info on the system was known. Several studios are getting peeved at Sony and jumping ship to Nintendo for more innovative games while the traditional games are going to the 360.

Lack of rumble is also annoying developers. Don't count Microsoft out since PS3 looks like they may sink like a stone. Sony has got the biggest case of arrogance.

I wish I could get a 360 for that price, I would definitely buy one! It would at least temporarily alleviate the reason I haven't bought one yet... XBOX Live fees, Download fees, Upload fees, Gamer Tax, Neon Green fees, Xtreme fees, Mountain Dew fees... oh wait it would still cost more than the ps3 in the end, nvm

#81

I'm curious. which developer has Microsoft acquired via hostile takeover? Every one I an recall was actively seeking a buyer. Also, you can only perform a hostile takeover if a company's stock is publicly traded. That would be unusual for an independent developer. Many publishers are public companies but very few developers. In fact, none come to mind but I imagine a few exist.

In what way is the manufacturing cost of the Xbox 360 increasing? Please elaborate. The already scheduled die shrinks of the chipset would seem to portend just the opposite.

#81, 83, well, most every other post on here..

Ignorance is bliss!

Well some people consider Lionhead to have been taking over hostiley since Molyneax wanted to develop for the Wii. Perhaps Microsoft and Nintendo could reach an agreement on that after all Microsoft game studios and Rare develop games for the GBA and DS.

It all depends if Microsoft smells enough money.

Now Microsoft did buy Rare but Nintendo was very unhappy with them due to their declining quality in game making so Nintendo didn't mind and made a nice profit.

#86

Then why, pray tell, did Molyneux sell out to Microsoft? All they could do is offer a mountain of money. They was no publicly traded Lionhead stock they could buy up. No eccentric uncle left them a controlling interest in the company's private shares in his will. The fact is, Peter Molyneux wanted to cash in and sought a wealthy suitor without a list of priorities that read, 'Must love sunset walks on the beach and multi-platform game publishing.' If that were the case Molyneux would have gone to platform neutral publishers as the places to seek his big payoff. If developing for the Wii were at all more than a whim there would simply have been no discussion with Microsoft. Thus the definition of a hostile takeover isn't remotely met by this situation.

Or are we going to put forward the Kamp Krusty defense? "They drove up to my house with a truck full of money! I'm not made of stone!" It wouldn't wash for Molyneux any more than it did for the clown. Especially since the value of Lionhead would hinge on Molyneux's continued participation as chief designer and public personality/figurehead. Molyneux not only sold his company but himself as well for the better part of a decade. I doubt he will spend all of that time pining for the Wii.

For all we know, Miyamoto was lovestruck by the EyeToy and suggested Nintendo do something similar. (The long ago GameBoy Camera hardly counts, that was to exploit the then photo booth fad in Japan.) If this proposal were made and rejected, do you think he would for a moment consider seek employment elsewhere? Of course not. Competitors will always have some nifty feature here or there that developers committed elsewhere find interesting. That doesn't make it an obsession prompting life changing decisions any more than most men consider leaving their girlfrien or getting a divorce every time a new attractive woman passes by on the street. (At least, not for more than a very brief moment.)

Rare developed a handful of GBA games, nearly all of which were already underway when the acquisition took place. There were contractual obligations to fulfill. The only title that appears to have originated post-aquisition is Diddy Kong Racing but that is a remake of an N64 title which uses character that cannot appear in a Microsoft published property.

But note the the utter lack of Rare releases on any platform directly competing with the Xbox or 360. It's easy to allow support of platforms that are meaningless to your own business. If Microsoft ever does venture into portable gaming, expect the Rare support for non-MS handheld to evaporate completely once any existing obligation is fulfilled. At that time, Rare's recent experience in producing for handheld platforms become a valuable asset.

Andrew wrote: "54. The Japs are still pissed about Hiroshima. What they always forget though is Pearl Harbor. YOU ATTACKED FIRST AND GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED!!!"

Can you ban this guys IP addy for life. You may be joking, but this is in very poor taste. Remember this Andrew, the United States is the only country to ever use nuclear weapons. The death toll for the two bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki are estimated at 200,000 people.

Why an estimation, because the effects of radiation poisoning, water and soil contamination on those who survived and the children to be born are almost impossible to calculate. You should be ashamed to make such a foolish statement. You sir, are the definition of an ignorant twit.

#63

For the record, I've never seen any remotely professional news outlet portray Sony proclaimations of units shipped as anything other than that. If anything, most such outlets would love to catch Sony in a lie if they were at all misleading about the meaning of the announcement. If some of the public is reading impaired it is not the fault of Sony or those reporting outlets.

Reporting units sold vs shipped is a matter of policy rather than intent to mislead. Nintendo cannot hope to provide more than an approximate number since so much of the sales takes place in small outlets that don't provide automated daily reports to Nintendo's online infrastructure as the large chains do. They know when they met a sellthrough milestone but only well after the event. It's rather easier to provide an up to date and highly accurate report of what your factories have done. A few factories with highly detailed tracking vs. tens of thousands of retailers worldwide.

As I've said before, the sellthrough for the PS2 trails the production numbers by only a few months. Modern manufacturing seeks to minimize inventory in warehouses. It represents a significant expense, so effective tracking of sales trends allows for production to be kept in line with demand. Sony knows quickly if sales drop off sharply but that sort of thing is rare. After launch hysteria wanes the sales trend upward and downward in gentle curves. By the end of the first year a savvy manufacturer knows if they have adequate production capacity or need more. (When more is needed the abbreviation capex is often used as a quicker way to say capacity expansion.) Predicting those needs is one of the critical gambles of big manufacturing. For instance, the DS Lite is in short supply but Nintendo is betting they have adequate capacity in the long term and demand will eventually be satisfied. A few consumers may be lost but that is less expensive than tooling up a production line that soon becomes idle as ongoing demand settles down to a much lesser volume. Manufacturing operations need to get the maximum use from a production line to maximize amortization. (A $X cost production line that produced 10 million widgets before being shut down had a higher cost per unit produced than a line than output 50 million of the same widget.)

PS1 production didn't go from a million units a month to nil overnight. That would be a very clumsy and costly way to run things. By the time the PSone model was introduced ongoing demand had waned to far below the console's glory days. The new machine produced a sales surge due to novelty, portability, and the eventual $50 price but in general never needed more than half of the original design's production capacity. That extra capacity, including the personnel, was already long since shifted to other needs like PS2 manufacturing. PSones weren't piling up in warehouses because Sony adjusted production to match need. (Shutting down and starting up production lines is something to be avoided whenever possible. Much of the US car industry's problems come from having such situations forced upon them by the unions. Much of the cost of each GM car comes from 'job bank' workers who collect a paycheck for literally sitting around waiting for job openings. Toyota would laugh in a UAW negotiator's face if they suggested such an obscenity.)

Keep in mind that Sony had a schedule for the PSone's demise long before production ended. It wasn't as if they didn't know what was happening on the PS2 side with engineering redesigns and price drops. The PSone would be replaced as planned years in advance. An inexplicable consumer demand could have extended PSone product but things went as predicted and there wasn't any need. If the world market for the PSone absorbs 30K units a month and Sony knows when the PStwo will drop to $99, they can predict how many units above the monthly shipments they need to warehouse in readiness for that date. Sony has a very good estimate of when PSone demand will drop to near zero and having sufficient inventory means having tens of thousands of units warehoused, not millions. A greatly reduced expense through judicious management. If Sony underestimated demand the missed opportunity will be minor and if they overestimated it will be a small expnse to unload the remainder at a lower price. Either is preferable to having a ridiculous number of PSones gather dust for years on end. Warehouses represent expense. Just the cost of the security personnel is an ongoing drain against the value of the stock stored.

For Sony to massively overproduce the PStwo in anticpation of managing demand for a decade to come is worse than silly. It would be suicidal. It makes no accommodation for changes in the market. Also, the current incarnation of the PS2 is unlikely to be the last. In all likelihood the PS2 chipset will be reduced to a single die at 65 nm or 45 nm. This will further reduce the size and power draw to enable a much lower price, eventually matching the $50 PSone but with additional PStwo features like DVD playback and online connectivity. Preparing for such a future model means keeping warehoused inventory minimal. It also means letting product fall behind demand to allow time to transition to the new product. This can cause some consumer complaints while the machines are hard to find at retail but it is a shortlived if the process is managed well.

How much money Sony makes is cold comfort for a third party publsiher if there is little opportunity for them on Nintendo's machines. The PS2 is substantially more popular worldwide than the GameCube because Nintendo's first party offerings only cover so much of the market's interests. The PS2 library is far more diverse thank to offering a profitable platform for third parties. A small company can do quite well on a game that sells a few hundred thousand. It's called keeping costs under control. A project that is understood to have sales potential of only 250K in its native market will be budgeted accordingly.

"And btw the N64 best sellers beat out anything the PS2 had in terms of sales same with the PS1."

History does not agree with you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best_selling_video_games#Top_20
This list has the N64 game sales outgunned by a factor of 2+ on either PS1 or PS2. It gets much worse if you expand the list out to the top 100 or greater. The N64 runs out of games, not just hit games but games in general, while the PS1 and PS2 lists just keep rolling along. All of those merely succesful games amount to a great deal of publisher loyalty.

You have a very distorted view of video game attach rates to hardware. Selling to a mere 5% of a platform with a good installed base is a hit game. A million units on the GameCube, for instance. But on the PS2 the percentage you need to reach to break a million sold is far lower and thus the platform is much more attractive for third party. Your game can fairly obscure and still have made good money.
So now lets get back to the super-honest folks at Nintendo and their units sold. Then compare the sales of Super Smash Bros. Melee, one of the highest attach rates ever for a non-bundled game. Despite immense popularity this game only sold, even at Player's Choice pricing, to well less than a third of Gamecube owners. Used games account for few more percent but doesn't change the numbers by much. Over half of GameCube owners didn't want the machine's most popular title. The numbers go down even more for the rest of the GameCube library's big hits.

That is normal and how the business works. Attach rates run higher early in a machine's life when there are fewer game choices but it evens out over time. (For instance, Call of Duty2 on the Xbox 360 has an excellent attach rate but that only means about 1.5 million units at this point. Far less popular games will match that when the installed base is ten times higher. Long term, the CoD2 attach rate will probably be far less than SSBM. ) If there are a million machines out there, in your wildest dreams the most units of a game you should hope to sell is around 400,000 and half that is getting into the realm of reality for a serious hit game. This is why installed base counts so much to publishers.

No one game is a good measure of the platform's numbers. Much of the audience that buys millions of copies of Madden every year won't even look at a Final Fantasy. There is some crossover players of both and shared machines with multiple users with different genre tastes but if three million copies of both games are sold, it suggests far more than three million machines in use.

Nintendo as a first party publisher has a captive audience that knows it must buy Nintendo's machine to get Nintendo's franchises. Third parties don't have that advantage. Which is why one-time Nintendo console third party mainstays like Castlevania wandered off to greener pastures and prominent titles like RE4 weren't content to be a big fish in Nintendo's smaller pond. Too much of the potential audience wasn't going to buy a GameCube for RE4, so they went where the money lay. The PS2 version won't sell as well as it would if it had been on that platform from the beginning but it should be a very profitable port.

Nintendo makes more money than Sony because Nintendo's platforms offer less shared opportunity for outsiders. If you look at all of the business generated by the PS2 vs. the GameCube, the Nintendo machine is dwarfed. (Compare the sheer volume in the PS2 million+ seller list vs. the GameCube.) The PS2 ecosystem is far larger and more diverse. It works fine for Nintendo but reduces the overall growth potential of their platform. Nintendo knows they can do better. A big part of their Wii strategy is co-existence with other consoles. Wii won't do it all for gamers who are attracted to the Xbox 360 or PS3 but it will do something unique and worth paying for in addition to those machines. That, at least, is the plan. I think it has a lot of merit since it's a real alternative to the status quo without making consumers forsake that status quo.

On the matter of dead PS2s, apparently some people haven't noticed the outlets that sell factory refrubished units at a price below SRP. When Sony exchanges a dead PS2 for a new unit, the old one doesn't just go in the trash. It gets checked out and repaired if possible at reasonable cost. This helps defray a lot of the expense, especially since dumping electronics can incur some major fees in many regions these days. Same with any mass produced electronics item.

Plenty of those once dead PS2s are back out there, resurrected and swelling the installed base.

While I don't support #54's foaming at the mouth attitude, suggesting the use of the atomic bomb against Japan was a unforgiveable sin is just lacking in any historical perspective.

Japan owes its very existence as a nation to the A-bomb. An attack that wrought great devastation while risking only a small aircraft crew allowed Japan to do the unthinkable. Surrender unconditionally. The military government and the culture they'd inculcated in the populace made the idea of annihilation acceptable if it happened in a manner perceived as honorable, which meant taking as many of the invaders down as possible. If Japan had been invaded by conventional means the resulting deaths among miltary personnel and civilians would have made the cumulative effects of the two A-bombs seem minor by comparison. A vast portion of those Japanese citizens who went on to make positive contributions in post-war Japan would simply have been killed. An immeasurable portion of the country's intellectual wealth would have been lost.

And the occupation following would have been far less forgiving. The troops who fought their way across the Pacific Theater would have been in an extremely bad mood, to say the least. The death toll had been devastating on both sides. Some battles cost more American lives in the course of a few hours than all of the military deaths in the past decade on and off the battlefield, including training accidents and guys getting crushed beneath vending machines. (Multiple incidents of this in the 90s.) My father came of age to join the US Army just as Germany was collapsing. He and all of his fellow new recruits knew that if they were sent to invade the Japanese home islands a major portion them would not be coming back. The number of casualties required to execute that invasion would also have meant a very different modern America, too. It is entirely possible that I and my siblings would never have been born if our father had bent sent into combat instead of serving as a medic and hospital assistant in the occupation forces in Austria.

The shock value of the atom bombs and Japan's unconditional surrender also prevented a lot of vengeance seeking against Japan by countries that had suffered stunning brutality by Japanese forces. The Nanjing is just of many outrages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_nanking

Often in the past, the victor in a war against such a brutal and tenacious foe would take measures to prevent a future repeat by wiping out the defeated cuilture. This would mean executing most adult males just for starters. Much of Asia would have been perfectly happy to see that happen in Japan if our forces hadn't been spared further combat and weren't able to occupy in great force that deterred those vengeful countries from making any moves to exact their own justice. Instead, a largely peaceful occupation allowed a transformed Japan to soon become an economic powerhouse and a close ally.

Don't know much about gaming marketing so I tried to imagine myself watching a meeting (Feb 2005) with MS officials as they decide to market in Japan.
MS Guy 1:We don't need Japan. The Xbox is No.2 and the 360 will get a head start.
MS Guy 3:But how long will that last with the impending launches of the opositions' consoles.
MS Guy 2:True, but what if we use Japan as a door into Korea and China, does that seam feasible. China is a large emerging economy.
MS Guy 1: Hmmm, never looked at it that way. But they don't don't speak the same language.
MS Guy 2: But they seam to share entertainment interests like movies, music, comics, and cartoons.
MS Guy 3: I think they call comics manga and the cartoons, anime.
MS Guy 2: Ah...
MS Guy 1: Maybe we do need Japan. Ok, before we actually make a decision. What's the cost of marketing in Japan vesus the sunk cost of R&D of the 360.
MS Guy 2: Not sure, but I think it's small. Let me look at my figures and get back to you. But I think we can break even on the marketing side with consoles sold seeing that R&D and manufacturing costs are already sunk.
MS Guy 1: What did our analysts say?
MS Guy 3: Asia - High rish, high returns.
MS Guy 2: This is a tough desision.
MS Guy 1: Damn right. Who get's fired if we go thru with this and it doesn't work out.
MS Guy 2: MS Guy 4 get's fired.
MS Guy 1: Let's go thru with it. Let's take a vote. I say yes
MS Guy 2:yes
MS Guy 3:yes
Ms Guy 4:zzzZZZzzzz

The real news seems to be that the trade in price for a DSlite is well over its list price. List is something like $130 and they are taking $160 trade-ins? It sounds like this DS a cachet item at the moment. When supply catches up, the trade-in will be more realistic. There's a hive mentality at work and people with the means will pay what they need to have that item, whether it's a Rolex or a DS-lite.

The Xbox 360 is definitely not even worthy than the DS Lite. We've got a situation on hands, Microsoft deploy that 1 million marketing officers into Japan, Microsoft needs to conquer the Nintendo let alone the Sony. While Microsoft is looking at the Worlds Second largest growing economy India. May be they can get those Second hand 360's into India as a new Gaming franchise by tying up with the numerous Multiplexes in India. Really people this the only situation to get out of this Situation. Get in to a new market and conquer it while you can. I live @ gizmospot.blogspot.com

The thing is 89 Gamecube Resident Evil 4 has sold better then the PS2 version.

The Gamecube would have sold far better if the third parties had realized they should make exclusive versions. The gamecube while a well designed machine didn't really have anything besides it's software to distingush itself from it's competitors.

It was more powerfull then the PS2 and games built for it's hardware were more then a match for anything made for the XBox.

It's funny how many developers have said they would rather have had their games on the gamecube or N64 but the publisher determined where it went.

The N64 games weren't failures at selling. Goldeneye has sold more then Halo.

People call the gamecube a failure when it made Nintendo a lot of money and had many million sellers.

Nintendo produced games have always been multi-million sellers and it is more impressive that they sell so well when restricted to one piece of hardware.

It's amusing how many bash Nintendo yet admit they have illegaly modded their xboxes and psps to play illegal ROMs of SNES and NES games as well as GBA games. Guess what the games they are playing are overwhelimingly made by Nintendo.

If Nintendo was a third party they would be making tens of billions selling their games on PSPs, Xboxes, PCs, PS2s.

Nintendo made a fortune at the arcades. They brought back the video game industry they are looking to do the same to the industry again. The video game industry is shrinking in it's customer base. The customer base should five times what it was back then due to all those gamers having children.

You could see the start of the decline in Japan and even America and Europe were starting to shows signs of a fatique.

The video game crash of 1983 had many of the same signs but the video game companies ignored them until too late.

Heck a Japanese video game company said they see the same situtation with the ds and psp occuring with the wii and Ps3.

Meaning the wii outselling the PS3 seven or even more then the PS3. This a major PS2 supporter btw saying this.

Game publishers didn't give the gamecube a chance. SEGA was at the verge of bankrupcy for years before dying. Sony is making a lot of the same mistakes SEGA and Nintendo made that led them to decreased number of published titles. Nintendo at one time had 90% of the published games that made them very arrogant and not cultivate their third party relationships. Sony is doing the same from certain publisher accounts in regards to the PS3.

Btw mainstream media oftne reports things on the video game front so incorrectly as do game journalists.

You often hear people say they think Nintendo is on the verge of going under due to what they have read from game journalists when in reality Nintendo is the most profitable console maker around. They don't know how to read a fincial report and they swear PS2 has sold 100 million consoles since they state the news report say they sold those numbers. The media never reported the PS2 lawsuit that got settled over defective PS2s. Nor other issues that make Sony look very bad. The media doesn't want to catch Sony in a lie since they don't care about the truth it's all image.