Rumor: no pre-owned games for PS3?
According to GamesRadar (who struck out on their last PS3-rumor at bat), Sony might be looking to prevent the sale of pre-owned games by using a software licensing system similar to the one employed in the PC software space. The rumor goes something like this: instead of purchasing the actual game, you purchase a nontransferable license to play the game, and the physical media is just a distribution method (think Microsoft Windows). While Sony does own some patents that might be used to this end, the issue is far more complicated than the technology and motivation behind it. Sure, Sony and most publishers would love to cut off the parasitic used-games industry, but would they do it at the expense of angering both retailers and consumers? Considering the dubious origin of the rumor -- "retail sources" -- and GamesRadar's past inaccuracy, it's far too early to get upset over this one.
Next-Gen offers their (similarly skeptical) take on the rumor, getting responses from an expert in retail law and two publishing sources who, though admittedly in favor of such a plan, concede that the story is unlikely.
[Thanks, SickNic and Kerina]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Caleb @ May 24th 2006 5:32PM
2nd post!
CRAP I DIDNT PUT THE LINK...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkjFNkmnpN4&search=sega%20dreamcast%20commercials
Please enjoy...forget the first post...it was crap.
Still your friend
Caleb
Gary @ May 24th 2006 5:35PM
I don't see it happening. While I do not doubt that game publishers would like to see this happen, they'd have a hell of a time pulling it off.
Shannon @ May 24th 2006 5:35PM
Didn't we already do this rumor? That you could only play your PS3 games on your own PS3, and it turned out to be false, and you guys even reported on it being false?
BPM? @ May 24th 2006 5:37PM
While I wouldn't put it past Sony to use this (they sure do love them DRMs!), I wouldn't cry bloody murder until the PS3 is actually released.
This is quite an old rumor...
If they do go ahead with this, I can see a lot less people being interested in PS3 (As the games will likeyl cost as much as, if not more than, 360 games). That is, if the $600 pricetag didn't already drive them away.
A lot of people like buying used games. Why? They're cheaper (unless the game is extremely rare).
Don Jose @ May 24th 2006 5:38PM
"but would they do it at the expense of angering both retailers and consumers?"
We're still talking about Sony, right?
And Sony hasn't swept out their corporate management in the last few days, right?
And this is also the same Sony responsible for the CD copy-protection rootkit fiasco, right?
Those points considered, I think the answer to your question is, "of course they would."
bl13 @ May 24th 2006 5:41PM
I'm just not sure how this "nontransferable license" would work. How would they make it nontransferable? Online activation? What about people that don't connect their consoles online?
KawF @ May 24th 2006 5:43PM
I love the internet... the only place, besides the tabloids where rumors may be called news, where heresay and speculation may be used as fact. To top it all off, if you can find someone to dement the rumour or speculation, it must mean that it is indeed the truth.
I wonder what's next, a confidential source claiming to have proof of the alien technology from Area 51 used in the PS3?
Let's just say that with Games Radar's track reckord of pawning of rumors as factual news with credibility... I choose to not believe this old rumour that has once again surfaced like the LochNess Monster.
MOT @ May 24th 2006 5:45PM
If this ends up happening, I just won't buy a PS3. Right now, I have no problem with buying a game, because I know that if it sucks I can always sell it back, meaning I at least get a return on the bad investment I made, and I don't feel so bad about buying a game.
With this new thing, if I buy a bad game, or if I don't play the games anymore, I am stuck with the game. I don't think I'll like that at all.
At least it's just a rumor right now. But if it turns out to be true, God help Sony.
Night Elve @ May 24th 2006 5:46PM
It is fake.
So a old news posted in QJ.net is now revived here?
sonofnone @ May 24th 2006 5:47PM
Disregarding the vailidity of such a rumor, let me just say to anyone who might be involved in deciscions that have even the slightest ability to enact such idocy upon the indusry: don't. You want a cut of the action? Fine, start you're own used-games store in the mall. Give it a trendy name that you can then use to label your very own "industry" magazine - which will come with a discount card and a years' subscription. I don't care.
But for the love of every gamer out there who can't afford to throw down fifty-plus bucks a pop just to enjoy a few games a year, I urge you, leave the aftermarket alone. If this is really where the industry is headed all you'd be doing is giving game piracy a bigger market - a pissing off a buch of people. Thank you.
*steps down off soap box*
Jouten Za @ May 24th 2006 5:47PM
"...a confidential source claiming to have proof of the alien technology from Area 51 used in the PS3..."
by KawF
The PS3's gonna have alien technology from Area 51 in it? AWESOME! PS3 IS THE ROXXORS!!! MUAHAHAH!
Sorry, not a $ony Jabroni, but figured I would add that above comment to save them some typing...
Markster @ May 24th 2006 5:47PM
I had read about something like this some months ago, but I recall that Sony debunked it themselves.
Night Elve @ May 24th 2006 5:49PM
To eveyone: This is fake news.
Check this link:
http://www.ps3focus.com/archives/159#more-159
kris aubuchon @ May 24th 2006 5:50PM
Well I remember this rumor from a long while ago. It's possible that sony would do this someday. If this day is today, I wouldn't be surprised - It's not unlike Sony to piss off everyone in retail and the consumers just for their own personal gains. Hey, what's one more nail in the coffin anyway? I've almost lost all hope for sony.
striderhayasa @ May 24th 2006 5:50PM
I've heard similar speculation a while ago. I think Sony is going to do it. They need to be able to recoup losses as quickly as possible and this would be one way to try and regulate lost revenue. It's slimy, for sure and I hope to be wrong but with the whole rootkit nonsense, how can we be sure that Sony isn't going to attempt something like this.
Evilsmevil @ May 24th 2006 5:51PM
yeah this news is actually quite old and was denied by sony some time ago. It was actualy rebuked in november of last year...
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/2005/11/15/sonys_clampdown_on_secondhand_games_updated.html
Erzengel360 @ May 24th 2006 5:53PM
Fits right into DRM Distribution. Blu Ray at it's best! But i think sony isn't so dumb to choose such a way.
Gary @ May 24th 2006 5:55PM
"11. To eveyone: This is fake news.
Check this link:
http://www.ps3focus.com/archives/159#more-159"
That's actually from a different rumor about how games will only work in one system. This rumor is a little bit different. This one states that Sony will make it illegal to resell their games. So while used games would play in your system, it'd be against the law for someone to sell them to you.
Once again, I don't beleive there's anyway this'll happen.
Chris @ May 24th 2006 5:56PM
RRRRIIIIDDDGGGGEEEE RRRAAACCCEEERRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
MMMMAAAAAASSSSIIIIVVVEEE DDDAAMMMAAAGGEEE!
C. Grant @ May 24th 2006 5:56PM
Night Elve: for starters, I don't know what "fake news" means. There is a site that is making a claim unrelated to the DRM-imposed system that you linked to (and I also linked to in my post). This is about a different method of selling software. A licensed based system.
bl13: it would be legally non-transferable, ala Windows. They could implement a system like Windows activation for each disc if they really pursued this plan, but the point is it would be illegal for retailers to resell used discs.
kcgb @ May 24th 2006 5:57PM
Remember how Sony said that the PS3 will have super fast load speeds because it will load part of the game onto your harddrive? If they wanted, they could probably use this feature to some how work for copy-right protection. But that's just me speculating.
mrdelayer @ May 24th 2006 6:00PM
Two words:
First-sale doctrine.
Danny Boy @ May 24th 2006 6:00PM
I think people are getting this mixed up with some older news.. I still think it's fake though.
Night Elve @ May 24th 2006 6:03PM
I found pretty weird that these days the news about Sony are just some kind of information that in certain way the only purpose of this is to lead people to a confusion.
For the past 4 weeks the only information on Gamer Blogs about Sony are infamous rumours.
Again guys dont believe everything that Internet said until an official Information is announced.
epobirs @ May 24th 2006 6:08PM
Wasn't this being discussed nearly a year ago, after the 2005 E3? The rumor has gotten no more substantiation since then. As I recall, the real source of this was some of the proposed modes supported for the AACS DRM system used by both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. It was far from completion then (one of many reasons putting HD-DVD as standard in the Xbox 360 was never going to happen) and many ideas both good and bad have been through the glacially slow committee process.
The is simply no way to make this work without requiring every PS3 be connected to the internet to allow the games to be registered to specific machines and then verifying that match of game UID and console UID occasionally. This is a tech support nightmare of a proposal. I cannot imagine Sony would want to inflict this on themselves.
It's going to be a good while before PS3 piracy becomes an issue. The discs will be too expensive for quite a while to make it a casual consumer level offense, and mass production outfits will be more easily traced. The early years of DVD were the same. Most big piracy was achieved by converting movies to SVCD to use regular CD-Rs. It took a good while for big time pirates to get ahold of the equipment needed and longer still for consumers to get easy DVD copying capability.
Does Sony really want to venture into Divx territory? Not the video codec. The failed DVD variant that made you pay for further use of a disc you already purchased by using a modem connection to lock and unlock whether the disc would play.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX
capiton @ May 24th 2006 6:12PM
damn well atleast I can pirate crashbox 360 games. lol
epobirs @ May 24th 2006 6:15PM
#18
That would be really, really difficult to enforce. Nintendo tried to outlaw used game sales in Japan and got some traction for a few years but consumers ultimately forced the government to overturn the legislation NCL had purchased.
Trying to do the same here simply wouldn't fly with horde of watchdog organizations like EFF waiting to pounce.
Besides, I can sell a used XP disc with no problems. Whether Microsoft will activate the resulting OS installation is the issue. A one-time activation for a PC that can also be done over the phone if an internet connection isn't available is a minor hassle. Doing the same for each and every game I bought for a console would be completely unacceptable.
bl13 @ May 24th 2006 6:17PM
If they only made reselling PS3 games illegal but didn't put in any hardware restrictions, wouldn't that only annoy retailers/consumers yet not curbing piracy in any way?
Unless the used games market hurts new game sales a lot more than I think it does. Anyone have data on this?
epobirs @ May 24th 2006 6:20PM
#1
What was that supposed to demonstrate other than the existence of some sad, embittered Dreamcast owners? I have a big Dreamcast library but I don't pretend it is a secret vault of wonders to be revealed to the ignorant masses who've never known the pure shining clarity of Dreamcast gaming. Especially if I, like the video, only used games that have comparable or better versions on other platforms as my examples. Perhaps if they went with Powerstone or some other games that remain distinct to the Dreamcast.
Enigma @ May 24th 2006 6:21PM
My goodness ... this was brought up over a year ago and Gamespot had official word from Sony that debunked this. But alas, let anything negative to Sony be posted on here.
Khash @ May 24th 2006 6:22PM
This news is as old as the internet. Game publishers have been talking about this for years now but never do anything about it. You think it's just Sony? You think Nintendo or Microsoft wouldn't do this if they could get away with it?
careon @ May 24th 2006 6:27PM
you guys that believe this are really really stupid or just Microsoft fanboys, its that simple really.
apoc06 @ May 24th 2006 6:38PM
I am 80% certain that this is just a rumor as well; a resurfacing rumor at that.
Will sony enable this feature? Doubtful. They went on record saying that they won't use the feature for gaming. Secondly, the source for this rumor is an "anonymous retail source", that could be the CEO of Walmart OR it could simply be the stockboy at Walmart OR it could be a made up source for all we know. Given that sony hasn't even provided retail with the exact SKU numbers for the product yet, its hard to imagine retail having this kind of insider information at this point.
Since this supposedly comes direct from sony to retail shops, 1) you would hear other retailers chiming in "Yes, sony reps told us the same story". 2) If this was an official statement from sony reps, someone would have scanned in the offical letter from sony and put it on the web.
My take on the matter? I think gamesradar and many other sites are jumping on the sony bashing bandwagon. Since bashing sony is so in fashion these days, a negative article on them is guaranteed to provide thousands to millions of page hits; which equate back to ad sales. GR is riding the "sony hate-wave" straight to the bank.
Ianc02 @ May 24th 2006 6:50PM
If sony could do this, ALL console companies/software developers would rub their hands with glee because they would know that they could do that too.
Will.Not.Happen.Ever.
Kerina @ May 24th 2006 6:53PM
Keep in mind how good Sony written promises are.... I fully expect they'll impliment some sort of propietary "protection" against resale. But I'm hoping it won't last, like the spyware they included in their music CDs for a while. I remembered this from back in Novemeber but there was the new development of mention that retail sources were told this. Still, I see it as rumor unless confirmed by a major company but not entirely implausible. It fits with Sony's "fine meal" theory of games for the PS3...here they can call it "No leftovers, only fresh meals." So, I'm not surprised, I'm just not gonna take it as true unless EBgames or Gamestop says they can't allow resales of PS3 games. Also keep in mind Betamax involved the same philosophy of content control all those years ago so it's well within Sony's philosophy. I do wonder what would happen in Japan, the whole industry is based on resale.
rafa @ May 24th 2006 6:55PM
why is every ps3 article on joystiq since E3 have a negative tone to it? is there nothing good about this machine? 'cause it looks pretty good from here (save for the price).
engadget is already reporting this to be fake, confirmed by someone at SCEE.
Kerina @ May 24th 2006 6:59PM
I also find it interesting that they didn't even bother with a blanket denial. That's somewhat worrisome to me.
Kazi @ May 24th 2006 7:02PM
As a side effect this would cause the rental buisnesses unable to pack PS3 games on their shelves.
Andir @ May 24th 2006 7:03PM
....anything to get people to visit the site. Even if it were lies. Hmm, I wish there was some way to hold people responsible for what they post.
Jeff @ May 24th 2006 7:06PM
"Will.Not.Happen.Ever."
Probably *could* not happen ever. Even if Sony wanted it to.
The original post used the example of Windows as the model Sony would be following (yeah, we know it's a fake story, but let me just debunk the reasoning behind it too). The problem with that logic is that it is perfectly legal to resell Windows - you just sell the license along with it. I have both bought and sold used copies of Windows - legally. Activated them too.
(From a C-Net article a while back:
"Charmaine Gravning, a product manager for Microsoft's Windows XP, said the policy is clear that people cannot sell or even share the software that comes pre-loaded on computers. If a consumer buys a copy of Windows in a store, they can transfer or give away the software for free, provided they include the license agreement, and all other documentation.")
You hear a lot about the first-sale doctrine, but that issue hasn't actually been settled with regard to EULA's in software. Courts have differed in their opinions and the Supes have yet to weigh in. But that presents a big problem for anyone who bets the bank on a business model that restricts used sales. Think about it - Sony releases the PS3 and forces everyone to buy new games all the time. Then suddenly, three years later the supreme court rules that first-sale applies. All of a sudden, you get tens of millions of used PS3 games flooding the market - all those games people have stockpiled because they couldn't otherwise get rid of them. Deflation would commence en masse. New game sales would collapse and might never recover. Publishers would be devastated. Sony themselves would lose buckets of money. Whole business plans would need to be rewritten.
Even Sony's not stupid enough to build a business model with that kind of uncertainty built in. This is why MS and most large software companies don't mess with first-sale - it's a huge trap if they really try to rewrite copyright law in their licenses and end up failing in court.
Unlike Me @ May 24th 2006 7:07PM
This is a move to make more money, I've seen articles that ''used games'' and ''rental games'' are hurting the gaming industry, but I think it turned out to be false, because they actually make more money due to used games and rentals, meh.
Andir @ May 24th 2006 7:08PM
"36. I also find it interesting that they didn't even bother with a blanket denial. That's somewhat worrisome to me."
This could be used against the company more than just ignoring it. I could blatently make up wrong information to try to force the company to reveal information about the system before it's release. It's like the games you play as a kid where you say, "The next person to talk is stupid." Eventually someone has to talk. If Sony came out and stomped every rumor, soon people would be making up stuff to get a press release about the truth and they would need an entire department devoted to squashing rumors.
Kevin D @ May 24th 2006 7:25PM
I can see this actually happening...
Think about it...
First, MS wants digital distribution (no physical media), which will kill resale (only YOUR live tag/info will be able to download/play game).
Now, Sony could do the same with physical media, you either have to log into the net within 7 days to 'register' your game (or call if no net connection) and this will 'install' the game to your machine. Same as XP...
I can see this happening (if not now, in the very near future)...
Yes, sony would love every person who wants to own a game to have an original copy....
Peace out..
Marco Cano Jr. @ May 24th 2006 7:33PM
I can't believe there are that many ignorant gamers out there (*Cough*kris aubuchon*Cough*). In my opinion, I think this is a great idea that should be taken seriously. Here is my reason why.
Developers put a lot of work when making a game. A lot of work. In fact its a lot harder then making a big budget movie.
Lets say your done with your game. Then you receive your paycheck for all that incredibly hard work (Before or After Release) but its pay that was way below your expectations. You ask "Why?", your boss says "Used games and Rentals are why". Would you keep working? It must be even harder on independent developers.
If Sony does the software licensing system, It will help the industry greatly. Developers will be happy, still will make games, and more Dev's will come to make games because of the awesome pay. Publishers will be able to take more risk's and possibly sell games at bargain prices because of all the profit.
I understand that some people can't afford brand new games but if they can't afford them then they shouldn't be buying a next gen system or games in the first place. Theirs my 2 cents.
PS
SONY, seriously, doesn't deserve all this overwhelming negativity. Its depressing, ignorant, and it needs to stop.
Andir @ May 24th 2006 7:45PM
Marco Cano Jr.: That's never the case. I create applications that save the company I work for so much money it's not funny. Some of the applications save the company more than my yearly salary per day. Some stroke got the brilliant idea that "your employee just want's a pat on the back as a reward". Companies won't bring that cash down the line. They give the CEO a huge chunk because it was apparently his/her idea and they did all kinds of leg work to get it moving. The rest is distributed down the line until there's none left for the person that actually did the work. Telling yourself that the developer is going to get payed more is lieing to yourself. Developer pay is based on one factor. "What will it take to get people in here." Not the success they bring.
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/pay/index.cfm
Andir @ May 24th 2006 7:49PM
sorry, here's a little more reputable source:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/28/news/economy/ceo_pay/index.htm?cnn=yes
Jaded @ May 24th 2006 8:01PM
Two things: first, just like everybody else has said, this was debunked a while ago. SONY has the technology built into the PS3 to do it, but won't because it will be tremendously hard to sell to the consumer, much like DiVX.
Second: Marco Cano Jr. (43). Let's have this little hypothetical. A developer gets his cheque after finishing a game. He notices that it's a bit smaller than he wanted. He asks the publisher why. The publisher says "Oh that's because less people bought the console you made the game on because they couldn't buy used or rent games. And those who did already bought all the titles that they can afford for the year, so they aren't biting either."
sonofnone @ May 24th 2006 8:02PM
Marco Cano Jr. - "I understand that some people can't afford brand new games but if they can't afford them then they shouldn't be buying a next gen system or games in the first place."
Um...thanks? So what you're saying is that if I can't afford an '07 car this year, oh well, I shouldn't be buying a car in the first place? Riiiiight. Sorry man, that argument (which is really just an opinion) just doesn't work. Basically you're saying I can only be a gamer as long as I'm rich enough to do so? Hmm.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for handouts, but for crying out loud they shouldn't be messing with the second hand market. As far as I'm aware there's never been a problem selling something aftermarket - it's the capitalist way. If Sony, or anybody for that matter, wants to fight that, well, good luck too 'em.
And no, I'm not trying to bash Sony. I've proudly owned both PS1 and PS2, and honestly I'm excited for the PS3. There's just several hundred or so reasons that'll keep me from getting one - for a while.
Montario Jones @ May 24th 2006 8:24PM
From what i can gather reading the gamesradar news article, and from knowledge of what litigious arseholes sony uk are with regards to successfully stopping many traders importing cheaper psp games and systems, what this seems to be implicating is that basically, if you're a retail store and sell ps3 games preowned, sony will SUE YOUR BALLS OFF. Wont stop people selling them to each other, but would stop it in mainstream shops, and probably ebay. GO SONY GO, HERES TO A GLORIOUS THIRD GENERATION IN THE LEAD.... :/
Larry @ May 24th 2006 8:24PM
check engadget, sony said it was false=)