PC World says Apple's Pippin is the "worst"

#42

Look at who is compiling the list. Most of the console industry is completely off their radar. They know about Pippin because it was Apple more than anything else. For a guy working in the computer press rather than the gaming press the main reason to mention Pippin is as an example of what was wrong with Apple at the time, rather than noting it as just one of many clueless forays into multimedia consoles. The average PC World editor has no recognition of the Virtual Boy name.

It was a lot like the era when Hollywood insiders were assembling game companies and arrogantly thinking because they'd worked on a few successful movies they had the slightest idea how to make a decent game. Remember Rocket Science Games? WIRED did a cover story on them that was completely unquestioning. The Messiah had come from Hollywood to show the game industry how to do it right. The writer must have been wearing kneepads and carrying a box of kleenex throughout the interview process. Those jerks soon learned what many already knew: games aren't movies. The techniques of film can be useful for producing parts of games and structuring the process but there is a separate skill set required to make a decent game no matter how good the FMV bits turn out.

@bladestar....dude, I don't give a damn how much money MS has in the bank (over 40billion if I remember right) but a 4 billion dollar loss is still a 4 billion dollar loss. A company is run to be profitable. And for your information Xbox 360 is dead in japan. DEAD! They will not get the Japanese support of Sony or even Nintendo because the userbase won't be there. Period. You want to talk about driving the industry?

How?

By making the 360 be a better PS? That's what the 360 is, Xboxlive is the only thing that MS brought to the table that's worth anything and even Live is a PC infrastructure rip. 360 is a good console but in its own right but it still lacks the one things that would make it great. Exclusives. Too many PC ports, To many console Ports, To many arcade ports on XBLA. Not enough exclusives. You can take that MS bank account and suck a fat one. Bill Gates would love it if Xbox360 had something like a Zelda that's exclusive or a Final Fantasy or a Mario. Profits are why companies do business and 360fanboys talk a lot of shit because the 360 is the only next gen on the market right now. But it's not going to be so clear cut by the time 07 comes around. Personally, I'm not going near the PS3 until it becomes reasonably priced but it's going to sell. Maybe not as much as Sony would hope but it will sell enough to justify extensive Japanese support. That's going to piss on MS right from the word "go".

Lastly, Xboxlive is a good service but what you have to realize is games are what drives the industry. GAMES, NIMROD. 360 is still lacking in that department when your only true claim to fame is Halo, a game that MS didn't make, but bought. Came back and talk to me when Ms gets some real exclusives.

How does striderhayasa not have any negative stars after that needless fanboy ranting?

On topic though;
People are wondering why this is news on Joystiq? That question is simple to answer, the Pipin was a videogame console and this is a videogame blog that posts news about videogames.If this blog were about OS or computers then the other items on the list would have been posted about and not the Pipin.

bladestar:

Microsoft isn't the richest company in the world. It isn't even the richest in the US.

Try ExxonMobil. Or General Electric.

BTW, Exxon is about 3 times bigger.

And the xbox was a huge money loser for Microsoft.

striderhayasa

ever heard of a loss leader?, Microsoft knew what they were doing with the original xbox, priming people to affiliate their name with a games machine.

The Xbox360 will probably never sell that well in Japan, as the Japanese are very nationalistic. But Japan doesnt drive the games industry, Europe and the US do.

But yes the Apple Pippin sounds and looks gay, and whats with all those buttons on the top?

Lol, striderhayasa, ''Exclusives!''.
Let me see, some of the best console exclusives were on the xbox. Heres just afew: Kotor 1, Kotor 2, Fable, Morrowind, Halo, Halo 2, oh jesus. All these games are amazing.
Now, Sony only had a bigger library because they let every game develop for them. You didn't see a donalds duck adventure 5 on the Xbox. Most of the PS2 library was full of poor companys creating games, that sold about 10,000 units max. There probally won't be all these Spyro the Dragon 9 and Mickey Mouse Mayhem for next-gen, they just can't keep up. Instead, its all down to the well known publishers/developers.
People are already complaining about the pain it is to develop the PS3, and are praising the 360 for its easy to learn arcitechure.
Do me a favor, and shut up.

I think Sony should get on with the times and start paying shill commenters to post their propaganda on blogs, forums and other message boards.
It seems to work great for Microsoft and Nintendo.

@Ben The most highly anticipated games come from where? Japan. Tell me how much it hurt 360 in Japan when Sega announced Virtual Fighter 5 exclusive to the PS3. In Japan, in regards to fighting games, it's Virtual Fighter and then it's everything else. The Japanese VF tournaments alone would be great press for the 360 if they could have secured it but...oh well. How much did it hurt Microsoft when SquareEnix announced FF13 for the PS3? Painful. How about Metal Gear 4 for PS3? Ouch! It goes on and on, from Valkyrie Profile to Devil May cry. From DragonQuest to Kingdom Hearts. All from Japan, all exclusive to Sony.

For you to think for one minute that Japanese development doesn't drive the industry is ridiculous and totally delusion. Most of the best games still come from Japan and without that support, MS is fighting an uphill battle.

@Kurt, how is that fanboy ranting? It is what it is. Games drive the GAMING industry. Microsoft lost big money on Xbox. True. Love it or hate it Xboxlive IS a rip of PC online gaming structure. Blatantly obvious. Halo is developed by Bungie who were making Halo for the Mac, MS bought Bungie and instructed Halo then be retooled to be an Xbox exclusive. Tell me where I'm wrong there. Name me five A+ exclusives for the Xbox or the Xbox 360 without naming Halo. uh....Halo...LOL

Tell me where I'm wrong.

jeez@ chained claws, every game you just named is on the PC, LOl. Get a clue dude. I said exclusives, meaning "can't get it anywhere else." It's the exclusive that put Sony where they are now. Want to play Tekken? Can't get that on anything except for PS. What about Socom? Opps sorry, that's sony too. Want to play God of War? Ain't happening on Xbox. LOL. Like I said, it is what it is. If Microsoft wants to take the top spot they have to have titles that are the best and can't be purchased anywhere else. That's the only reason Nintendo survived the debacle that is the N64. They spent years developing games that were groundbreaking and built a feverish fanbase from those games. When they turned stupid and decided to make the 64 catridge based, they still had the A+ first party development to give people a reason to look their way in the face of a immensely better PS1 library.

You can forget the arguement of "360 having a better development environment." The PS2 was a bitch to develop for at launch and I remember reading a Gamasutra article where a developer said something to the effect of "I don't care how hard it is to develop for the PS2. I'll stick pins through my fingers if it means I can move units on that platform."
it will be the same attitude this time. Regardless of how hard it is to develop for (I actually heard the opposite) developers will do it if the userbase is there. Who is the market leader right now? It ain't MS.

LOL....good argument but it's flawed....you got anything else? HUH?!

Worked with Bandai on this. Too many folks dropped the ball on this project. It was a headless 6100 that came out without the promised ported games and it was priced cheaper than it should have been. I saw a gym treadmill with one of them in it - for browsing the InterNet. Whee! It should have had a Ethernet 10/100 port ... The hope was it would spur on more Mac games.
- Sparky

"dude, I don't give a damn how much money MS has in the bank (over 40billion if I remember right) but a 4 billion dollar loss is still a 4 billion dollar loss. A company is run to be profitable. And for your information Xbox 360 is dead in japan. DEAD! They will not get the Japanese support of Sony or even Nintendo because the userbase won't be there. Period. You want to talk about driving the industry?"
Damn, you must be Japanese or you are dying to kiss some serious Japanese ass. Japan? what's that? Things are changing child, I don't know if you remember when portable music was dominated by Japan specially Sony and today is dominated by an American company (say hello to my little friend [ipod]; even the Japanese love it). You said it yourself, "A company is run to be profitable.". If the XBox 360 dominates the whole world but Japan, the Japanese will swallow their pride and make games for fanboy/japan-ass-kisser such as yourself that believe that only Japan can produce games and the entire world is too stupid to do the same. I just hope that companies don't continue losing money making games like Oblivion or halo. lol. Did it matter that halo or oblivion didn't sale in Japan?

"Microsoft isn't the richest company in the world. It isn't even the richest in the US.
Try ExxonMobil. Or General Electric."

I can't wait for ExxonMobil or General Electric next generation console. Maybe you are right, but try having Nintendo lose 4 Billion. The only reason why the wii is not as powerful as the xbox 360 is simply because Nintendo can't afford it. heck even Sony can't afford it. If the PS3 does not pickup you will be lucky if you find a toaster made by Sony.

Last time I checked Microsoft is not known to be a non-profitable company; try buying Microsoft shares. They wouldn't be investing resources in the 360 if they dint think is worth it. Only XBox live is worth the risk. If things continue to go the way they are going (i.e. direct tv and companies advertising over xbox live), lets see for how long you will be talking about 4 billion. can't wait.

What is this? The oldest i remember is Megadrive :S

jesus Bladestar what are you smoking? It's about userbase...say it with me now...userbase. If the 360 doesn't gain ground in Japan then it will not be widely supported in Japan, period. Why do you think that MS is re-launching the 360 in Japan and going through great efforts to secure Japanese exclusive RPGS and support? They know they need Japan to seriously compete. That's not a matter of opinion that's a matter of fact. Have you heard of Blue Dragon? Do you know who's developing it and why it's important especially in Japan? Do you know why MS is shouting to the world that they have Blue Dragon exclusive for the 360? Read up on it kid and get back to me. If that doesn't prove how important Japan is to the 360's future as a whole I don't know what is.

What do you mean Nintendo couldn't afford the tech? That's just dumb. Nintendo has over 10 billion in the bank so stop yourself right there. Nintendo doesn't want to spend 20 million plus dollars for each game they develop and they sure as hell don't want to take a $175 dollar loss (like MS per 360 sold) or a reported $200 loss (per PS3 sold) like Sony. That's one reason Rare was happy when NIntendo sold them. Rare would write a proposal for a game and would ask for a few million dollars to do it. Nintendo would get back to them and ask if they could do it for 2 million. Rare was getting fed up. Nintendo is in it to to develop games at a fraction of the cost and then sell millions of them to capitalize on profits. Not that nonsense of selling hardware at a loss and make up profits in software sales. That model was good enough back in the 16 and 32 bit era even in the PS2 era but development costs are so high for the next gen that that business model is very risky.

Why do you think blogs like Joystiq and sites like Gamasutra run stories about indie developers. That's where the DOOMs of the world came from. How can indie developers push new ideas if they can't even afford the cost of developement or worse go broke because they invested too heavily in a title and it didn't sell enough to cover development costs? That's what the Wii is about. That's why developers will invest in the cell phone and portable markets. Read a little man. It would help your argument out a lot.

This quote is from Game tycoon about the 360...

http://www.edery.org/2006/01/xbox-360-launch-success-failure-or-something-in-between/

Better penetration of the Japanese market, in which the original Xbox fared very poorly. (If you doubt that Microsoft cares about this, just read about everything the company has done to improve its chances in Japan this go-around.)

From Wikipedia
Japanese video game industry practices

The Japanese video game industry is markedly different from the industry in the US and Europe.

Generally, games occupy greater cultural attention in Japan than the U.S., and its market share of total entertainment in Japan is higher than the U.S. Japanese publishers are often known for highly demanding standards on published titles, with Nintendo probably especially well known in this area. High-quality voice acting (on par with that of movies) was seen in Japanese games several years before American teams began to seriously think about it. Japan has created some of the largest and most expensive titles ever made, such as Final Fantasy X and the Metal Gear Solid series of games, and will probably continue to lead the way worldwide in terms of high production values and large teams.

Quote from Peter Moore himself

“Japan is one of the most important video game markets in the world and is a key pillar of our global strategy for Xbox 360,” said Peter Moore, corporate vice president of Worldwide Marketing and Publishing for Xbox at Microsoft. “Our deep commitment to the Japanese market is evident in the exciting and unprecedented alliances we’ve forged with Japan’s most talented and beloved game developers. Their new Xbox 360 titles will show the Japanese community and beyond that we are committed to defining the next generation of interactive entertainment.”

Pippin was released, but was available in limited supply. You were more likely to find it abroad than in the U.S.

And AOL at the top of the list? I dunno if it's the WORST tech product of all time. It certainly filled a niche and introduced a mass number of people to the online world, before the Internet was mainstream. Sure it wasn't the first online service. CompuServe, Delphi, The Source, and Prodigy all came before. But AOL was the one that introduced better pricing than the older services (CompuServe, Source, and Delphi were all quite pricey), with a GUI interface, that was easy to use (this was key), and included an eventual world-wide highspeed network. It may have also been the first connection to the Internet for many, long before mainstream ISPs existed.

Sure the marketing was annoying, and if you were a more advanced user, it may have not been the ideal service for you. But for it's time, it was a pretty cool service.

What some may not know was that America Online was originally a service that was jointly operated by Apple, and was originally called AppleLink: Personal Edition. The name only changed after Apple dropped out.

I was a member on the service from 1988 to 2000, and was also a contributor, a forum moderator, a beta tester, and a guide.

The service, even though I don't use it anymore, will always be remembered fondly. If anything it should be on a list as one of the tech products which changed or helped shape the industry.

striderhayasa, I am not saying that Japan is not important but I just refuse to believe that 24.4 million consonsoles (xbox) shipped worldwide is not a good start for a console specially an american console.

You don't call that a good user base for an american company with poor or none japanese support? Today the 360 is in a better possition than the xbox. Even if the 360 managed to do 2 times better than would be more than 40% of the industry. The way things are going Sony making too many mistakes with the PS3 and the wii being a complementary system most of us will buy to play the (other) games which is why most people are are turning wii60. hehe:

http://poll.pollhost.com/dmxhZGNvbGUJMTE0ODgzOTU1NAlGRkZGRkYJMDAwMDAwCUFyaWFsCUFzc29ydGVk/

"Nintendo is in it to develop games at a fraction of the cost" is this a good thing? ever heard the saying, "You get what you pay for"? Nintendo didn't come out with a magic way of making games cheaper, they are cheaper cause developer don't have to spend resources to add HD or Dolby Digital sound/music since the system does not supports these. Should I be happy if the next Spiderman movie is low budget and the movie look like it was made 10 years ago because they company didn’t want to spend money on it? Why should Nintendo be the only one making money? If Nintendo have so much money and will make so much money why deprive their loyal fanboys of HD and quality sound if they have the money to add it. why do they have to make money on the hardware + the royalties.

I can play low budget game like geometry wars or Tetris; but lets not pretend that people will say, "Ohh god take Halo 3, Gears of War, Lost Planet, Too Human, Mass Effect, and every HD game off my sight the graphics looks too good! I can't handle it." You can't deny human nature; people like things that look good and sound good, HD and graphics are to be included. Also, let’s not forget that Video Game is known to be a visual form of entertainment like movies. It is now that Nintendo is trying to convince the world that is not about Graphics, physics, music, animation, characters, emotions, story-line and all the things that made games fun for decades that matters but how you physically interact with the game with a wiimote.

@bladestar What are you talking about? Look, I feel the same way about Microsoft that I feel about the Philadelphia Eagles, If you want the respect for being the best then prove that you are by destroying your competition. MS has the money to support A rate first party talent. We can agree on that right? So why are so many 1st games from microsoft suspect? Even Rare is not the company it once was when Perfect Dark Zero is highly overrated.

As far as budgets in gaming goes, look. To say superior technology, graphics and sound is evil is stupid. I never said that, I never implied it. But skyrocketing development budgets have publishers getting nervous. That means they will be less willing to take a chance on an unknown IP. Meaning less original games and more sequels and movie tie-ins. That's bad. very bad because the original games like a Shadow of the Colossus, or a Tenchu, or a Lumines could have a hard time finding a publisher and never see the light of day. As far as getting what you pay for, let's look at that shall we....

PSP is more expensive than a DS but which portable is having more success....DS

Atari Lynx was more powerful (first 16bit portable)and cost more than the Gameboy. Which portable is still here....Gameboy

CDI was far more expensive than the SNES, the Genesis and the PC-engine/TurboGraphx16. CDI was putrid and just couldn't compare to the less powerful, cheaper consoles. Winner....Not CDI


N64 was more powerful than the PS1. Which console won the battle and won the war and is still winning the war...PS


Xbox is more powerful than the PS2. who won....Xbox

I could go on and on but the point is, the most expensive is not always the best.

Nintendo is not trying to convince the world of that. You're wrong AGAIN. One thing that Nintendo said in regards to that that I truly agree with is that the current gen consoles are powerful enough to develop nearly any game you could imagine. Nintendo has always stress gameplay first. What's the point in having all of this HD support if the game still plays like a current gen title. Yeah, I'm looking at you 360. Do you realize that the main reason the next gen xbox and PS are sporting a half a gig of RAM and these pimped out processors and graphics chips is because they need that for HD support. Without it the framerates on the HD games would be terrible. Look at the latest current gen games for crying out loud and tell me they look bad, even compared to 360 games. God of War still looks damn good to me even after I play a 360 game. Look at Tourist Trophy, FF12, Metal Gear Solid 3, Resident Evil, RE4...these games still look good despite the 360. Are they perfect, no. But they don't have to be because the gameplay is there and the graphics sound and prsentation are still excellent in each one of the mentioned titles. THAT'S what Nintendo was talking about. Why break the bank with development costs when you can still develop a great game without the HD support (which most of us aren't going to take advantage of for a while anyway) and without the bluray or HDDVD support (which is still far too expensive for mass market)
Why? All of a sudden Ninja Gaiden is trash because it's not in HD? Gimme a break

doh! sorry Xbox didn't win that fight, sorry about the typo.

"I truly agree with is that the current gen consoles are powerful enough to develop nearly any game you could imagine"

Really!? So, if this is the case why didn't nintendo just release the wii-mote for the game cube? I'm sure that the GC could support it. Nintedo is a corporation remember that; they are not doing you any favors as you might think. They are there for the money just like Sony and Microsoft. Don't think for a second that they are not in for the money.