"Mac users aren't really into games"

What? Our investment can't play games?

FINE! We didn't wanna play your stupid games anyway! Games have Koodies!

*runs home crying*

I'm a Mac user, and yes, into games.

Just not on my Mac.

That's like saying DS users aren't into spreadsheets. Or something like that... err... I think I've confused myself.

In a related note, Us comador 64 users are all about the Zork!!

#1

lol

But I'm a mac user, and I love my iMac for computery things as well as stuff like photoshop and flash. I have no problem admitting macs have few games, and when they do they kind of suck are typically more expensive then pc ones. But that's why I play 360. Even when I had a pc i never played many games because I prefer console gaming, just my preference. Once I take time to actually put xp on my mac, then I'll probably play more pc games, b ut for now 360 is my primary entertainment.

So yeah, mac basically sucks for games, but they really aren't made for them. If you want to play computer games, buy a pc!

Apple should really start putting good graphics cards on Macs, to lure PC gamers to Macs with Boot Camping Windows. I have a PPC Mac mini and I'd like to play what little Mac games there are but with such an underpowered machine it's nigh impossible.

I'm afraid I must disagree... I've been a Mac user for years, and have always loved games, but never really got the opportunity. I finally get games on my new Mac, just not in Mac OS X, I reboot my MacBook Pro into Windows... It's still technically gaming on a Mac, I guess...

I have to agree with others - I use my Mac as a computer, and I play my games on a console. About the only thing I'm missing are MMORPG's, and given the monthly expense I'm not interested anyway.

Remember - Mac users generally use it because it works, and it works well without complaint. Consoles are a good fit for this - you don't need to upgrade your graphics card (which costs as much as a console, or did until the PS3 announced...), you don't need to futz around with drivers and settings, you just pop in a game and play. It's simple, it works.

Different strokes for different folks.

If you're a gamer, do you buy a Mac? No... so Joystiq bloggers, sure, you game... but did you buy the Mac with the intention to play games?

C'mon. "We disagree"... please, did you buy the Mac's with the intentions of playing games or computing? You knew from the get go when you purchased the Mac's that there would be no games on it.

That's like saying, "Cell phone users aren't really into games". Maybe they are, maybe they aren't... but do a MAJORITY of people buy phones for games even though they can play them?

I don't understand the line of thought expressed in these comments (which is typical whenever this discussion comes up). Why wouldn't you want a Mac to play games well and do everything you currently use it for? It doesn't make sense.

I spent years going to Mac Expos, before the iHype nonsense. Bungie was my saving grace at those but overall it was sad to be a Mac Gamer.

Now that I've been on PCs for years and have subsequently made a career out of it... I would love to go back to frequently using a Mac at home but there is one thing keeping me from doing that: games.

Boot camp may be the solution but somehow I feel it's just not good enough.

That BusinessWeek article is such a joke, written as it is by a self-admitted "Mac partisan."

"My view, then and now: There's nothing that can be done with Windows that can't be done better on a Mac."

Unless of course you've ever worked in an enterprise IT environment - especially server-side - where the word "Mac" doesn't and shouldn't cross your mind because it doesn't come close to what Microsoft offers in that area. Statements like this reflect ignorance of the highest order.

"Ultimately, in 2003, I had no choice but to buy a Windows PC to feed my addiction to the C&C family of games. But of course, this required all the various Windows maintenance tasks. It seemed every time I wanted to play, there was some Windows update that had to be accomplished first."

Like what? Getting the most recent drivers for your hardware? This sounds like straight Windows-bashing.

"It's strange, since Macs have always been generally better at graphics, producing animation, editing sound, and so on. It would seem the Mac would be an ideal gaming environment. And yet the market indicates otherwise."

This one made me laugh. Cold reality breaching the shiny shell that he's constructed for himself, because he doesn't understand *why* Windows has been the superior gaming platform for several years. It's all about what developers have found attractive in Windows and DirectX ever since both were first introduced.

I would like to throw my two cents into this discussion, for what it's worth. I'm a Mac user and I have several friends who are Mac users. We are all gamers, just not PC gamers. I myself have never really been into PC games. I guess it's that I've always played games with a controller (I know there are controllers for PCs, but I've never really even bothered researching it). Or maybe it's the scarring memories of the blue screen of death whenever I attempted to add new software (dude, it's a Dell). Whatever it is, I've always been a huge fan of plug and play. That's why I prefer Macs and video game consoles to PCs.

I'm not trying to knock PC gaming. I know there are some great immersive games out there, just none that interest me enough to "make the switch." I'm a creative and I use Macs for creating. Not gaming.

I really think the headline should read :

" Mac users aren't really into games...on their Mac "

The original headline seemed to be a pretty broad generalization.

My Mac does a terrific job with MacMAME and Snes9x.

Otherwise, I can't even find a decent copy of FreeCell.

@ Autoexec

You make some good points, but the world of Mac is changing.

"Unless of course you've ever worked in an enterprise IT environment - especially server-side - where the word "Mac" doesn't and shouldn't cross your mind"

Universities are now using Macs to filter everything that comes into contact with their intranets. Macs are being used more and more in server apps. My business runs Mac servers and has laid out a roadmap to bring the entire office onto the Mac platform in the next year. Even NASA has elected to use Apple's XRAID and XServe to house its enormous archive database. Macs are a great value when it comes to reliability and serviceability.

"This one made me laugh. Cold reality breaching the shiny shell that he's constructed for himself, because he doesn't understand *why* Windows has been the superior gaming platform for several years. It's all about what developers have found attractive in Windows and DirectX ever since both were first introduced."

Well, the reality is there is more gaming support for Windows PCs than Macs because there is simply a wider audience in the Windows market. This is due to the fact that early Macs sucked. There's just no two ways about it. They were priced out of the average consumer's pocketbook (and the Pro models still are, but then again, so are the "ultimate gaming rigs" that exist today), whereas IBM offered a usable product that seemed to be easier to use. But, as I said before, the world of Mac is changing. Apple offers great hardware as well as great software. OSX's ease of use and popularity has contributed greatly to the redesign of Windows. You can't walk 10 feet without seeing someone listening to their favorite music on an iPod.

I like the philosophy of Apple and enjoy using my G5. You obviously enjoy gaming on your PC. There's no right or wrong choice. So if someone writes an article with a decidedly Mac slant, cut him some slack. He's writing his opinion, and he obviously feels that's the most interesting way to write the article.

That's a strange thing. I'm a Mac user, have been for about a year from using PC's for 10 years. I was a hardcore gamer then I'm still one now.
*strokes rare collection of games*

Oh well. another stereotype post. woo! Hey I'm blonde, I must be a hairdresser. I have a guitar, I must be a goth. I'm quarter polish I must be communist.

Do you know why Windows machines are better at games than Macs? Because Microsoft actually put years of hard work into their DirectX gaming platform. Apple has not.

I loved games like Carmageddon, Duke Nukem, and Doom, and at the other end Fool's Errand, Balance of Power, and 3 in Three. The games industry today has a weird fascination with Sim junk ("distract yourself from your boring life by creating boring lives for boring avatars") and MMORPGs ("distract yourself from your boring life by avoiding it entirely").

Give me either good first-player action games (is anything left beyond Unreal Tournament updates?) or interesting, thoughtful puzzles and I'm back on board.

I dunno, maybe my interpretation of the statement is not what was meant, but I don't think he's saying that Mac users don't buy Macs for gaming, that they buy them for the multimedia hoo-ha and other applications (although in it's current state, that is probably true).. what he's trying to say is that IF Macs were to be as capable as PC's in gaming, and that there were major titles available for it, then MOST Mac users STILL wouldn't be interested, which is quite untrue, I believe.

Well... Maybe they mean newie Mac user aren't interest game while original Apple user are into and still do in today.

#7 and 12

right on. We use macs because they work, no questions asked. Same deal with console games. No need to upgrade anything, it just works. Sure we can't use one machine for computing and games, but who cares. They are just two different opions: mac/pc, pc gaming/console gaming.

Yeah we miss the MMORPGs, but like whatshistname said, they cost money. You can argue that xbox live costs money, but c'mon. less then 5 bucks a month for online play or features for just about every game, as opposed to 15 for one single game. No thankyou. I'll stick to my wireless controllers and mighty mouse.

i have an intel iMac and im well into games, just not onmy mac. i have a DS and loads of systems that you can play with real friends, not just other internet WoW geeks.

plus i wouldnt dream of installing the utter piss that is windows on my mac

#20
hahahaha

I personally have a dedicated gaming PC, and I definitely agree that what few games there are on the Mac do tend to suck. But I will argue that popular Blizzard games are for the most part immediately available for the mac - WoW included.
If I had an intel iMac I would boot camp it, but it wouldn't be as appealing without a more high-powered graphics card. With Apple being as GUI-centric as they always have been, such a move would be obvious...

Long time Mac user, Appletalk network Marathon player, and console owner.

Honestly, I'd love to game more on my Mac. The biggest issue with this is obviously the lack of games and more importantly, the lack of gaming centric hardware choices in Apple's lineup.

So, I've turned to my consoles. I play portable, I play Xbox 360, I play current gen. I also have a "gaming" PC in the house but it's only real use is Half Life 2 and perhaps a Windows only title that I just can't live without... still waiting on that title.

Anyway, my Mac isn't going anywhere. I love it dearly. Including the awesomeness that is Connect360 so I can stream my Powerbook iTunes to my 360. What a beautiful blend of technology that is.

Mac + Console > PC

I'm a simple person.. I don't like the hassle.. the lack of stress and reliability of the other devices (stability, lack of upgrades etc..) means that I can spend more time enjoying my product for a longer period of time before it goes out of date.

Besides Myst and arcade games I doubt I will ever play games on my Mac.. even if they were cheaper than the console alternative and more readily available.

To Ryan:

"Universities are now using Macs to filter everything that comes into contact with their intranets. Macs are being used more and more in server apps. My business runs Mac servers and has laid out a roadmap to bring the entire office onto the Mac platform in the next year. Even NASA has elected to use Apple's XRAID and XServe to house its enormous archive database."

Universities and the scientific community have traditionally been bastions of Macs (though less so in recent years - just look at how many computer labs have been gradually phasing out their Mac presence), so there's nothing new there. When I say "enterprise" I mean corporations, and I don't mean this personally but the anecdotal evidence you provide of your own business is a speck of dust compared to all the gigantic organizations that employ Windows infrastructures, such as NASDAQ, Reuters, eBay, and Dell. Active Directory on a Windows 2000/2003 base is *the* preferred directory service for corporations; Novell's and IBM's offerings trail far behind in terms of market share. SQL Server 2005 is making huge gains for Microsoft in the database area, as are the rest of Microsoft's server products such as BizTalk Server and Identity Integration Server. The world of Mac may be changing, but the gains Microsoft is making with enterprises are coming at a much faster rate - plus the sheer diversity of enterprise-level hardware for Windows (and UNIX) systems is so astronomically high as to make Apple's offerings a joke. Check out the enterprise server sections on IBM's and Dell's websites and compare that against the one thing Apple offers, Xserve. The depth and breadth of backend enterprise configuration is something of which that the PC market has virtually total ownership. Apple is simply not any sort of player to be reckoned with there; it has a tiny piece and that's all it will continue to have.

"Well, the reality is there is more gaming support for Windows PCs than Macs because there is simply a wider audience in the Windows market. This is due to the fact that early Macs sucked."

"Early Macs sucked" is another way of saying "the Windows development environment were superior." It continues to be so, on an enterprise level and on a gaming level. Josh in comment #16 hit it on the head - there was a marked effort by Microsoft to deepen and advance its DirectX platform, and this carried with it a lot of collaboration and cooperation with various companies. It was all about establishing a huge mutually beneficial network between Microsoft, developers, and hardware manufacturers, and it was pulled off magnificently to give us the vast array of game and hardware choices we now have in the PC world. Nothing Apple did came within a whisper of this.

"Apple offers great hardware as well as great software. OSX's ease of use and popularity has contributed greatly to the redesign of Windows."

I see Apple as a testbed for new ideas that Microsoft can look at and decide which ones are worth incorporating into their own products. Lots of free R&D for them. ;)

I am a Mac user. Also uber gamer. Let's see one of your really cool polls on the subject joystiq. Do a little research of your own.

Are you "not into games" if you don't play games that just came out a month ago? I have a Mac, it's the best computer I've ever owned. After 20 years of PCs my PowerBook is a breath of fresh air. I play emulators on it (NES, SNES, TG-16, Genesis, Playstation, N64), I also play a few computer games - Quake 3, Doom 3, NeverWinter Nights, World of Warcraft. Games aren't my primamry use for the machine, recording music is, but I still like games and still play them.

I think people who buy computers simply to play games on them give Macs a bad rap for no reason. I play games on my Mac, and they run great. Do I care if they the newest games? No. How new a game is has no baring on how good it is. My favorite games are all atleast a decade old. To me, World Of Warcraft and Doom 3 are pretty damn new, seeing as though I prefer to play NES and SNES.

I think you can be a gamer and not have a computer than is dedicated to games. My computer's primary purpose is for music production and recording. The fact that I play games, and they run great, is just a plus. Besides, my last computer, a Pentium 4 based Dell, couldn't play anything other than 2D games, so my Mac is "better for games" than my last PC.

At least we know the Mac operators in the workplace aren't likely playing games on the company dime... Macs for all!

;)

As long as Blizzard and ID and Aspyr keep me connected, I'm keeping my Mac, thank you very much. Much to my wife's chagrin, WoW was one of the reasons I recently upgraded my Mac.

And of course, I can reboot into XP if I really want to play Half-Life 2, etc. But given that I haven't grown tired of WoW yet, I'm not too concerned about the state of Mac gaming.

It really comes down to a matter of market share just as much as it's a DirectX/OpenGL issue. As long as we Mac users only make up 3-5% of the user base, we'll keep getting buggy ports of year old games.

Again, Im another Mac user who is into gamming, i really like it but i like more to play with gamming consoles (PS2 Gamecube). I used to play videogames in my mac (MOH, SIMS SIMCITY WOLFENSTEIN, COD, AA) but i dont play anymore because my mac is kinda old, with my next mac sure i will play sims 2 doom3. But i definitely would choose a gaming console over a PC or MAC.

I was a bit worried there when I was scanning this list of comments and almost didn't see "Marathon" until post #25. Marathon was a fantastic FPS for it's time, created by the likes of Bungie, who also made lots of games for Mac. Marathon, if you didn't know... GAVE BIRTH TO HALO. Now, even Bungie has stated that they moved away from the Mac platform, simply because Microsoft gave them a whole new ground to showcase their stuff on, and they were very excited about that (especially when the XBOX first came out, they got to make a launch title, and now a center-piece franchise, of an entirely new console at the time). But the point is, Mac players are capable of being gamers, and Mac platforms are capable of having fantastic games... however, since the platform isn't nearly as viable at getting audiences as PCs and consoles and handhelds and mobile cell phones are these days, not many gamers consider Mac as an alternative. If people were to make fantastic games like Bungie did so long ago, especially now with a lot of people converting to trying out a Mac with their newfound heart for Intel Dual Core procs, maybe people would change their minds.

I doubt anyone will read this far down ... but,

I really hope that one day very soon, Apple will come out with a killer 1st party game (think Nintendo), that will run fine on everyone's computer, and will be a Mac exclusive.

Imagine if Apple had a succesful franchise like Mario, Sonic, or Halo?

I wish the world was one big IT department so cranky bastards would control everything.

Businesses choose the Windows platform for one reason and one reason only: it's cheap. I don't get how people saying that a bunch of businesses with their heads up their ass when it comes to being on the cutting edge of technology and who are only concerned with the bottom line use Windows PCs is evidence of anything. Seriously, the only thing people who are part of huge corporate networks look forward to is when they got to go home and use a real computer without restrictions.

Market share does not equal quality (cite: music industry).

I dont like macs because of the propriatary hardware they use. I never buy a dell, or goto best buy and buy a gateway pc. I go to my local asian cheap computer parts and piece together my computer part by part and build it myself. With macs, I have to buy the computers they set up for me. Thats terrible and noobish. I will NEVER own a mac or even care about trying OSX until the day I can piece together my custom mac computer, buy the video card I want, hard drive I like, sound card I want, Motherboard, etc etc.

Padriac, you've obviously not worked several years in an administrative capacity in IT, as I have. If you had, you'd know that price is by no means the only factor. We evaluate *several* vendors - hell, for our anti-spam solution we looked at eight companies, of which Microsoft was only one - and we submit to each vendor a lengthy and detailed collection of inquiries regarding the capabilities of their product. We then review their answers, as well as doing our own considerable independent research, and then make a decision on whether that product best fits the needs of the company. You paint a simplistic, adolescent picture of how purchasing decisions are made for corporate IT environments that couldn't be any further from the truth, and clearly you're not looking beyond Windows PC workstations. Web servers, databases, remote access servers - these are all vital to the IT operations of any company and there are a hell of a lot of things to consider besides price.

@35
"35. I doubt anyone will read this far down ... but,

I really hope that one day very soon, Apple will come out with a killer 1st party game (think Nintendo), that will run fine on everyone's computer, and will be a Mac exclusive.

Imagine if Apple had a succesful franchise like Mario, Sonic, or Halo?"

Actually you can buy Halo for the mac but even if there was a 1st party killer game no one would no about it. People don't plop down 1,000 of dollars for a computer to play one game, especially if the computer can't play other great games like HL2. I doubt Apple would spend any time developing a high budget game like that anyway.

And how could it run fine on anyones computer if it only runs on a mac.

I'm a hardcore Mac guy and only work on a Mac. I've been producing TV shows and websites for a long time and my team and I have amassed a veritable sea of dead and useless PC's over the year, yet our 15 year old Macs can still be used to edit content (we don't do that but it always sucks to phase out computers that still work!)

I do play and review games on a PC all the time but now, with Apple's Bootcamp, I play PC games on my Intel MacBookPro. It's surreal and a total freakin' blast. Oblivion and Battlefield 2 on my Mac on the plane just blows people's minds. As soon as the MacPro's come out this summer, I have a pretty good feeling that I'll be getting rid of all the PCs in my house and switching over to the Mac for all my work and my PC gaming. I just hope that Vista and DX10 will work with Leopard in 2007.

Love PC games. Love Macs. Hate PCs for work. But that's just me.

I would love it if Apple got serious about games for their computers and their iPods. That would be kick ass.

All the best!

-vic

I'd be interested to know how many units of Mac WoW Blizzard has managed to move so far.

i've been using a mac for about 3 years now, i still keep my PC for Half Life / CS... mainly because I'm forced to- its Steam's problem if they don't want to port their games to such a small market as the mac-gamers. anyhoo, i know a lot of mac users who have never thought of games in their mac-career, mainly beacuse they're grown-ups :D

i think bootcamp is pretty important for the few; as soon as the MacBook gets a dedicated graphics card and a NON glossy-screen, i can chuck the box. games (as ussual) are the only thing i'll be running in Windows, heh.

the idea of apple making their own killer-game... hmm, maybe with some iPod related 'take it with you' element. perhaps a Second Life style game? iLife would have to be integrated. 32MB Shared Graphics would have to be supported, so hmm... i'm not hoping for anything soon!

@ 37

I used to think that way, too. I built all my own PCs, and had several family members asking me to build PCs for them, too. I made my rig my way, with the parts I wanted, and thought it was the best option.

And then, after going through my 14th PC for myself (not counting minor upgrades), and realizing I was wasting a lot of time creating the PC and getting it to work so I could do some work and play a few games, I switched to the Mac. Why? Because I shouldn't have to spend all my time making the device--- I should spend my time USING the device to get things done.

What benefit was all my tinkering and constructing, anyway?

Was it that I knew all the parts in the computer myself? No... Because if any individual part broke, I had to go one of a dozen different companies for repair or replace it out of my own pocket. With the Mac, I've got three years of warranty covering the entire computer, should it fail.

Was it being able to "upgrade" the PC? Nope. I can do that with my Mac, too. All the parts I'd need to upgrade are fully upgradable with industry standard parts. RAM, CPU, optical drive, hard drive... All can be swapped out easily.

Perhaps with my model, I'm stuck with the video card they gave me, but after three years I usually sell my Mac (for pretty close to its new value, BTW) and get myself a new Mac with the latest, greatest thing in video to fit my needs. Of course, since I'm having more fun gaming on my 360, I doubt I'll worry about video cards anymore. The chipset on my Mac handles HD video, all the bells and whistles in the newest GUI, and mid-range gaming (should I ever bother) just fine.

If I ever need to add anything today, I can also use the firewire or USB 2.0 ports. Sure, I can get inside and replace things, but why bother? Do those extra milliseconds between firewire and IDE/SATA mean anything to my daily work?

I just realized one day that all my "customization" was worthless, and actually made my task more difficult. Why should I build my own PC? I didn't build my own television. I didn't build my own game console. I didn't build my own toaster. I didn't build my own car. I didn't build my own DVD player. I didn't build my own washing machine... How, EXACTLY, was making a computer from individual parts by myself ANY DIFFERENT than some company doing it for me?

It isn't. Knowing what's in there doesn't make it any better. Being responsible for swapping out you own defective parts doesn't make it any more reliable. In fact, the biggest problem with PC gaming is that they have to make games that work on a million different configurations because there are so many homemade PCs out there. Will it work with YOUR combination of video card, mainboard, and RAM? Is your network card interfering with the USB drivers? Is Windows unable to find drivers for some aspect of your system?

Why fricking bother with all that? I don't want to tinker. I want to get some use out of the damned computer.

What, exactly is "proprietary" about a Mac's guts, anyway?

Is it the CPU? Nope. Mine's an Intel Core Duo. Industry standard.
Is it the hard drive? Nope. I've got an internal SATA and a external firewire, both standard drives (and one's 7200 RPM Samsung).
Is it the RAM? Nope. Standard again. Bought online, and I put it in myself.
Is it the optical drive? Nope. ATA Matushita DL DVD-R/+R/-RW/+RW.
Is it the Networking capability? Well.. It has 802.11g and bluetooth built in. So I'll grant that I can't remove those. But why would I want to if they work?

What about peripherals?
Mouse? Microsoft Bluetooth Intellimouse Explorer (currently)
Keyboard? Kensington Wireless Laser Desktop- All extra buttons work, too.
Monitor? Samsung 19" SyncMaster 930B
Gamepad? I use a PS2-to-USB adapter and a wireless Madcatz dual-shock.

Ohhh... I know what's proprietary! The mainboard and the sound chipset!!!

Well, darn it all. I should trash my always-working Mac so I can get a faulty A-Bit and a Creative Labs Soundblaster. Nothing quite like the joy of trying to get a Creative soundcard's drivers to work every time, all the time.

Oh, wait... The power supply is proprietary too.

And yes, the GMA950 chipset, while not proprietary, is built in. I won't be able to slap a $300 GeForce into my computer... Not that I miss doing that at all.

I play games in Windows on my Mac... No expensive video card required; The games play the same, even if they're only on "medium" graphical settings. If I want maximum graphics punch, though, I can turn on my Xbox 360. It's less buggy than Windows.

If your local asian cheap computer part- let's say your hard drive- fails, what kind of warranty do you get from the manufacturer or the seller? Three years? Does their parts warranty cover labor, too?

You are wasting a lot of time maintaining and building your PCs, when you could be doing work with them, or using them.

Maybe some people get a kick out of building an entire car before they go to work or the grocery store. I do not. I do not like the idea of having to constantly maintain my car by myself, do all the little AND big jobs in auto repair, and still be responsible for my own job and life. The reason I let my auto dealership sell me a complete car, and maintain it for me, is because I have BETTER THINGS TO DO than tinker with my car... Like USE the car to get to work, school, shopping, to visit family, and just to drive around and have fun.

Some people like the option of digging around inside their stuff. I would rather get use out of it, then spend all my time making it capable of being used at all.

Thus, I own a Mac.

I do as much as you do. I spend less time getting ready to do it.

I've seen firsthand a purchasing decision swing to completely different vendors based on the bottom line. If you were familiar with Academic scenarios, you'd know what I'm talking about.

The real point, autoexec, is what the hell does any of that have to do with playing video games? How is enterprise IT relevant to anything on this site?

#41: "I'd be interested to know how many units of Mac WoW Blizzard has managed to move so far."

The game discs are hybrids, so it's not possible to talk about Mac versions sold. The same game discs install on both platforms.

#43: Man, good job. You spent so much time explaining why your time is valuable that I built a new media center in the time it took me to read that.

What happened? I thought we killed the whole Apple vs. IBM(Now we call it Apple vs. Microsoft) war way back in the 90's. The fact of the matter is that Apple computers have always been easier to use and maintain, and Intel/AMD PC's usually offer a much more open architecture for upgrades at the cost of requiring more technical expertise. I'm an Windows guy myself, just based on personal preference.

The lack of games for the Mac has always been because their marketshare is significantly lower than Windows or MS-DOS based machines. For every 10 titles to come out on a PC, you'd get maybe one for the Mac and that was way before the PowerPC so I'd bet it's even worse now.

Even if we didn't kill this feud before, the Microsoft Xbox 360 has a PowerPC chip and there is now an Intel chip in a Mac! The console fanboys and wars are bad enough, can't you just all get along and be nice to each other?

If users chose MAC over PC, They are willing to sacrifice Games, since MAC does not have that many games to begin with. If they are willing to pay so much for machine that dont have alot of gaming support, it's pretty easy to conclude, they are not exactly that into games.

i own a mac so I must suck at games or something.

There really isn't much to argue about. Apple simply hasn't put any effort into building a gaming option. Their real-time rendering hardware and software just isn't up to par with what is offered in Windows. True, they can belt out pre-rendered stuff great, but that hardly matters in a gaming environment (unless you are playing back SquEnix movies all the time).

The problem with Apple is they don't know WHAT they want to be. They have the art and movie thing tied down, but that is such a tiny market that it is hardly worth noting. Their advertising constantly insults and attacks the bread and butter of the computer industry: the corporate machine. Apples just aren't capable of the stuff that high-end Windows applications do. For example, ACL is used quite extensively in business auditing (internal, external, Sarbanes-Oxley) and is not available on the Mac because Macs just don't have what it takes to analyze 400 million data entries (or have a program that can store that much on a single page) for duplicates or any out of the ordinary transations, etc. Their recent attacks stating Macs are like some yuppie living off Mom and Dad and PCs are a stuffy suit doesn't help this much either.

This leaves the every day user as the last place to sell their product. Unfortunatley, Apple has done a damned fine job of pricing their product out of their reach. Why should the regular guy on the street who only wants to read e-mail get a Mac, which their browsing of their site results in choices that start at $1,300, over a $400 eMachines?

Apple knows its entertainment industry folks, and that is about it. If Apple wants to get any further than a paltry 3-5% market share, it is going to have to start spreading the R&D cash around. Apple cannot sit back and rely on a Windows secondary boot to get games running. They're going to have to figure out a better alternative than DX10 and get the hardware companies on board to do that. Apple cannot get anywhere on the general PC front if they cannot develop $400 options for Mr. and Mrs. Normal Citizen.

Of course Apple doesn't attract gamers, it was never a priority of theirs in practice. These half-hearted stabs of developing Boot Camp won't do much to change that. Without a concentrated effort to develop the foundation to get other stuff going on their system, Apple will always bee a niche hardware providor that has nothing more than a tiny, yet vocal fanbase with little practical (either in actual use or financial wise) outside the professional artist realm.