NY Times lauds Nintendo's "evangelical mission" [update 1]
You can tell a lot about a journalist's opinion by his choice of words (e.g. "Jim was found dead / Jim was murdered / Jim was savagely murdered"); it is with this knowledge that we confidently assert that Seth Schiesel of the New York Times is totally a Wii fanboy, likening Nintendo's next-generation offering to a crusade -- an "an almost evangelical mission to rescue video games from the clutches of the sunlight-deprived, testosterone-addled, slightly gamy demographic group that has come to rule the gaming world."The article appeared on the front page of the New York Times Arts & Leisure section, and has all of Nintendo's favorite talking points: innovation, mass appeal, a low price tag, and Iwata's branded "we're not competing with Microsoft or Sony" rhetoric -- they even touch on the DS' success (what a surprise). It's a total fluff piece, but it is just the kind of exposure that Nintendo needs if they hope to appeal to a mass audience of nongamers -- many of whom will get all their gaming news from outlets like the New York Times.
[Thanks for help with image, Liz!]
[update 1: subscription is no longer required to view the article]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Khidr @ Jun 6th 2006 12:21PM
It's interesting to me, the support that nintendo gets from the gaming community. Maybe it says we're an inclusive bunch, but... I understand why the mainstream media is getting behind nintendo, it's an "in" for the rest of the world (non-gamers) to get in on some of this interactive entertainment action, but it's surprising to me that the hardcore are ready to jump on board.
The hard core gaming community is populated with some pretty skilled gamers, a couple of hours with ninja gaiden or DMC3 will tel you that. So, are challenging games being threatened by nintendo? Or... is the Wii going to be what you get to sit next to your 360 for when your grandparents come around?
At the end of the day I think there's a nexus between challenging deep games and accessibility. I'm excited about the Wii, but I'm not always sure I should be.
J B Cougar @ Jun 6th 2006 12:22PM
Sure its a puff piece, but isn't the real story here the fact that the "nintendo message" has now filtered into some mainstream media outlets like the Times? Sure, Joystiq is great and all, and I spend more hours here during my working day than doing actual work, but its read by people already well-versed in the gaming world. Seeing MSNBC reporters wave the Wii controller around while playing Wii Sports isn't something you'll see being done with a PS3 anytime soon. Well, maybe waving it about in anger.
Epic @ Jun 6th 2006 12:42PM
Although I don't think there's much to learn from this article, it does reinforce my suspicions about the Wii. It's positioned to attract grandparents and casuals. Call me crazy, but this console is looking more and more like one big gimmick with watered down gaming. And I'm sure Nintendo cringed when they read the New York Times putting words in their mouth that gamers are "sun-deprived" and "gamy."
So far, the Wii remote hasn't been adding much freedom to the way we control games. On Red Steel and Madden, it works by observing your movement, and then selecting one of several canned animations to perform. That's not free-form, that's a dressed up button press. The aiming mechanism on Red Steel isn't even a pointing mechanism. Instead, the movement of the remote simply guides the cursor -- just like an analog stick, but less precise! I'll admit I tend to be a skeptic about "revolutionary" concepts, but I'm trying to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt. I'm not convinced so far.
argus @ Jun 6th 2006 12:56PM
how did a magic card end up as an image for this?
Nmaster @ Jun 6th 2006 12:56PM
OMFG, a combined Nintendo and Magic: the Gathering reference? I love you for that! (wow, I'm an uber-geek, aren't I?)
But hey, if your gonna do it, do it right, go all out! Flavor text should not be listed as an ability! :P
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/nmaster/WiiCrusade.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/nmaster/WiiCrusade_oldstyle.jpg
joba @ Jun 6th 2006 1:01PM
I APPLAUD YOU EPIC!! Thanks for have the Kahunas to say what gaming media hasn't fully addressed. It seems our gamer info channels are so high on "Wiid" that its difficult to convey. Any sane gamer that views his passion as leisure will not be turned on by the hypnotic physical nature/aroma that is Wiid. I consider myself an athletic gamer. I play sports and work out without being attached to a console. Tennis outside in the sunshine is a far better alternative than "Wiid Tennis" I really can't see myself interacting with this console other than its traditional gaming control functionality. Honestly, I will not be purchasing a Wii at all. Its a novelty to me in all senses of the word.
Nmaster @ Jun 6th 2006 1:05PM
Excuse my double posting, but I thought this might be of interest...
Nintendo has this posted on their main site now:
http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=CxtNViUyWtCpJwg2QoaeB1bhYBW7BjvS
Also, for anyone who doesn't want to register for nytimes.com just to read this one article, this great little site will help you with that:
http://www.bugmenot.com/
Andir @ Jun 6th 2006 1:13PM
"Tennis outside in the sunshine is a far better alternative than "Wiid Tennis" I really can't see myself interacting with this console other than its traditional gaming control functionality."
I'm just waiting for the 13 year old kid that goes to swing a tennis raquet and throws the controller into his dad's new plasma TV.
You know it's going to happen.
vidGuy @ Jun 6th 2006 1:29PM
Watered down gaming? Give me a break. I enjoy the depth (read: complexity) of games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid, but sometimes I like to sit down with a game that can be played easily with 4 or 5 buttons. This may appear on Nintendo platforms in the form of Resident Evil 4 or Mario Party x10^6, but it also appears on other consoles. Right now, the only two 360 games I've enjoyed are Condemned and Table Tennis, and the latter can be played with just the two analog sticks if you want (which could easily be translated to the nunchuck stick and Wii remote for the Nintendo Wii).
The Wii is positioned to attract non-gamers, at least that's what Nintendo is aiming for, but the principles behind it, and the games it will deliver, have many hardcore gamers foaming at the mouth, myself included. I'm more excited for the Nintendo Wii than I have been for any console, and I've owned every major console released since the NES (excluding the Dreamcast).
The remote may not be all it's cracked up to be for some games (Madden, Red Steel), but the developers need to find a good fit betweeen interaction and pure interaction-madness. Remember everybody complaining that the Wii was going to require too much movement? Well, instead of making every slash of the remote into a slash of Link's sword in TP, they only have it used for the special attacks. This gives you a new input method that attempts to innovate while maintaining the feel of current control methods, and dodging the complaint of too much movement.
While Red Steel, Madden, and other games may not use the Wii remote to its full ability, they are stepping in the right direction. And, as history has shown, Nintendo's ideas in one generation tend to become industry standards by the following generation. I expect for the Wii remote to be amazing in a few games (1st party games especially), ok in most games, and dismal in others, but it's all a part of the developers getting used to the new input method. By 2011/2012, when the nextnext generation is getting started, I expect that motion control will be standard in all console controllers, and it will be near-perfection, just as the rumble is today.
As for "gimmick", here's the difference between the Wii and a $20 "virtual reality" game from the mall: the Wii is a console with it's default controller able to sense movement. You'll get much more than "Swing a racket, swing a bat, swing a golf club". And I believe that Nintendo is going to package wrist bands similar to those at E3 so that the room isn't filled with flying Wii remotes.
"I play sports and work out without being attached to a console. Tennis outside in the sunshine is a far better alternative than "Wiid Tennis" I really can't see myself interacting with this console other than its traditional gaming control functionality."
- That's fine for you, joba, but I expect to fully enjoy my weight lifting sessions and my Wii gaming, both on the same day! I think the important thing about the Wii is that it looks fun to play, at least to 80 some percent of the people polled. Therefore, more people will play it. When more people play a system, more developers come to reap the profits available. And then we'll have some innovation, gimmicky by some's standards, maybe, but new and fun.
In every which way I look at it, standing away from any console I own, I see Sony doing poor, Microsoft increasing market share, and Nintendo dominating console sales this generation.
cringer8 @ Jun 6th 2006 1:33PM
For those who think the Wii is going to be exclusively a "casual gamer's" machine, check out the launch lineup. Ex.: there are three top notch FPS's available on day one (Metroid, Red Steel, and CoD 3). This system is for *everyone*, including the more skilled gamers.
@EPIC
If you would open your ears and your mind you would know by now that the Wii-mote will be able to be calibrated to your TV with YOUR setup. So, once set up and calibrated, it WILL be a pointing device. Have you seen the "Zapper?"
Those who haven't actually played the system (as I have), you can't comment yet. You are speculating incorrectly.
And, the graphics haven’t been revealed yet (they’re saving that for the Tokyo show), so no one can say anything on that end, either.
me @ Jun 6th 2006 1:53PM
Joystiq = haters.
DarkSol @ Jun 6th 2006 2:29PM
Cringer:
So what you are saying is that whatever they showed at E3 was a joke? The games, the graphics, everything? Since they did show games and graphics at E3, there is nothing to really speculate.
Let's put this into a different analogy. Let's say we're talking about lima beans. I've never had lima beans, but they look nasty, and I bet they taste nasty. Therefore, I'm going to think they are nasty and I'm not going to want any.
Now, by your logic, just because I've never had any, means my logic is flawed and I am wrong just because I don't want the lima beans. Even though those lima beans might taste good to you and even look good to you, I still refuse to eat them because they don't look good to me.
shinsnake @ Jun 6th 2006 2:34PM
"(The article by the NYT is) a total fluff piece"
As opposed to a videogame blog blatantly defending anything and everything Sony. It kills me when you have an article about the gaming press being biased right above an article about how the PS3 is "really a good price for what you are getting." Idiots.
zsavior @ Jun 6th 2006 2:48PM
NO Joystiq=RIGHT! I am a big Nintendo fan but this is the exact type of press I am talking about. THAT IS NOT FREAKING NEUTRALITY! What the hell! YOu see this is the problem with Journalism in the videogame industry, the fact that this numb nut comes out and endorses this system as some sort of god, then when it doesn't do so well in the same breath he will devour it and regurgitate every fault he had with the system since the ideas conception.
People in the media especially Journalist like to jump on the biggest thing at the time, but as gamers we can't get taken in by a name. What an insult to print media, what he just did is no different than What the Inquirer did to Sony. Only right now it is in a positive light for nintendo, I can't stress how horrible this is for the videogame industry. There is a big difference between an ariticle and an Editorial. An article is supposed to raise awarness, and pose questons, with facts and clear writing. AN Editorial is supposed to give an opinion of a writer, that is derived from facts, but is tainted and slanted by the writers own opinions and influences. AN editorial gives a lecture on a idea and what the writer feels is positive and negative about a topic. An article is supposed to be neutral groud for a journalist to report a story!
This bastard goes against everything in journalism and he figures that it is ok, and he can get away with it cause gamers are just a group of nerds and dorks with no voice. HELL YES I AM IN A RANT, because this is the kind of shoddy reporting that harms society, let alone a still growing industry. Why do I hate this sort of journalism, you may ask? I dislike this because this idiot gives his opinion in this article as if it is fact, he says it in a manner that is condescending to anyone that is actually paying attention to videogames. He also uses the times and his pulpit knowing very few will want to go against the name of this paper when he starts out with his idiocy. If only the T-Virus was real Edward R Murrow could come out of the grave and beat this man senseless with is own arm!
I want nintendo to do well as much as anybody but not this way, somethings are more important than fanboyism and integrity is one of them. Nintendo and The WII will come and go, but he has to write another article tomorrow. "Admiration is the furtherst thing from understanding" -Captain Aizen Sosuke. Calling a system great because it makes a cast of people you feel are lazy move around doesn't mean you understand what nintendo is trying to do, or the message they are trying to send. It just means you can eloquently distort and report your bias to your readers with out confronting it yourself.
vidGuy @ Jun 6th 2006 2:50PM
Actually, DarkSol, that's exactly right.
You can make a decision and form an opinion about something before experiencing it, but it's not an informed decision. Replace your lima beans with scallops, and I'll finish the story.
"But then I tried scallops, and I was impressed. My opinion was unfounded and now I eat scallops whenever I can."
You may not want scallops, lima beans, or the Wii, but it doesn't mean that those things aren't "good", however you measure it.
Now, graphics-wise we know that the E3 presentations were below what will be released on Wii (via developers' statements about focusing on gameplay for the demo, then uping graphics for the release).
Gameplay-wise, if you haven't played it, how can you form an opinion, good or bad?
J B Cougar @ Jun 6th 2006 2:55PM
DarkSol, you're right, but only about personal preference. Sure you don't like Lima beans, but Lima beans aren't as popular right now as the Wii, so that argument fails the logic test. Since we're so big on analogies today, let's say your argument is like Crest saying "9 out of 10 dentists choose Crest toothpaste" Oh, but what Crest doesn't tell you is they only talked to 10 dentists.
IN all actuality the argument actually disproves itself. Lima beans, on average, are disliked by a MAJORITY of people. As it stands today the Wii, on average, is liked by a MAJORITY of people. No one is saying people with this mindset are wrong, they're just saying -- and rightly so -- that while your logic is entirely correct, your OPINION of the moment is completely wrong. People come to logical conclusions all the time whilst being completely and utterly wrong about something. They're called delusional.
As far as cringer is concerned, he/she/it is largely correct: the demos were running on GameCube boxes (hence the graphics have not been revealed yet).
As for epic, I'd really like to see where he got his info. If he as at E3, then so be it, but he doesn't say. If he wasn't then it's another case of nothing to see here, please move along.
GlitchCog @ Jun 6th 2006 3:06PM
“…sunlight-deprived, testosterone-addled, slightly gamy demographic group that has come to rule the gaming world.”
The news story sounds correct to me. Radical future-guns, space-marines, loincloth-clad barbarians and absurdly manly unrealistic heroes take up an unreasonably large portion of the market. Think God of War, Prince of Persia, Halo, Quake, Metal Gear, Duke Nukem. I don't enjoy those games. Call me queer, but I don't get excited at the prospect of a virtual tough guy gun/sword fight with cigars and rippling bare-chested masculinity seeping from every pixel. Dismissing Nintendo for its allegedly childish games is tantamount to encouraging this sort of suppressed homoerotic teenage boy fantasy in the industry. It’s rather disgusting, really.
So, yeah, this author is Nintendo biased, but so should anyone who wants to see video games become more than some ridiculous macho-fest.
TDub301 @ Jun 6th 2006 3:24PM
That was a terrible analogy, it's not any different. Still shows your unwillingness to try new things, regardless of whether it's a certain food or certain game. I'm not a fan of lima beans either, but at least I know how they taste because I've sampled them before and can therefore make a much better argument.
And that whole wiimote comment by Epic was BS, because it's up to the developers of the game to decide whether a "canned" animation is performed or a realistic movement happens, the potential is there so don't hate on Nintendo because the very first third party developers to try and make a game using the new controller don't make full use of it. Rest assured, it'll happen.
It's funny the way people keep making predictions about what system is gonna win and what system will flop on all these gametab blogs. The reality is that all 3 will keep going and continue on through the next generation. And by the next generation or one after that, as usual, Nintendo's original ideas will be standard among all the platforms (from the rumble feature all the way down to shoulder buttons and the control stick).
Sony is f***ing up a little, but their fan base is too big for them to be down and out, they'll recover in the next generation if they do so bad in this one coming up. I have friends who will shell out that $600 (noone's gonna actually be stupid enough to buy the $500 one, right? you do know you can't upgrade it like the 360...) just to play a single game cuz they're that big of a fan.
Microsoft is making improvements, it's only their second console and it was sold out for the first 3 or 4 months it was on the market, that's damn good. And even though you have to pay a "whopping" $50 to play online, it's worth it because XBox live is unrivaled and will probably remain that way.
Nintendo is the biggest vet of the three by far, they would have stayed on top had they not made some bad decisions in the past, but now they have a new "gimmick" that will most likely work at least somewhat, but also have online play which in my opinion was their biggest flaw in the last generation. Imagine all those fun-as-hell first party party games they make online, Mario Kart? Smash Brothers? etc. once those are online Nintendo will make a big step forward, regardless of whether or not they use their new innovative remote.
Let's not forgot that with the added attachment, the wiimote might as well be a normal controller just divided into 2 parts, it'll have almost as many buttons as before and the traditional analog stick, so the worries about hardcore gamers can dissipate (also don't forget we can still use the Gamecube controllers that have a very traditional design). The new Zelda is about as hardcore as it gets and has a gian fan-base already, months before it comes out. And this is only the first of many to come. Need I say more? I think I've said enough, I feel like I'm part of the club now...
Tyler @ Jun 6th 2006 3:35PM
Why does everyone ignore Joystiq's, 1up's, EGM's, Gamespot's... hell every gaming journalist's bias toward Nintendo, and against Microsoft.
Now, I'm as opposed to corporate juggernauts as much as the next guy. But take for example the grilling (and well appropriate) interview with Peter Moore in EGM, and here on Joystiq during E3. Moore was put through through questions that gamers wanted answers.
But, when Shigeru Miyamoto was interviewed by both EGM and Joystiq, a fluff piece emerged. I understand the delicate respect system in Japanese culture, but should that shield respected game developers from proper journalism?
Epic @ Jun 6th 2006 3:38PM
@GlitchCog, let's not suggest that the alternative to Wii is nothing but Duke Nukem. Most of my concern over the Wii has less to do with any "kiddie" image and more to do with the capabilities of the hardware -- the console and (especially) the controller. I enjoy variety in my console games, and we all remember that some of the most successful games ever have been less than macho (FFVII, Kingdom Hearts).
Indeed, it's possible that the Wii remote might actually hurt variety on the Nintendo console. Eliminating a gamepad will discourage ports of action games, FPSs or flight games that require more involved controls. The console itself will make it difficult to attract third parties who need multi-platform releases to stay profitable. In the cases where companies do bring their franchises to the Wii, they might suffer watered down graphics and substance.
Dark jedi Matu @ Jun 6th 2006 3:58PM
@ Epic, wtf are you talking about? Action games? How about Mario and Zelda. FPS? How about Metroid, Red Steel and Call of Duty. Variety? What about Anilmal Crossing, Final Fantasy CC, Dragon Quest, Wii Sports, WarioWare, ExciteTruck, Sonic...That's not variety. People kill me with this attitude.
I'll tell you a better scenario. The Wii remote will NOT be the reason why companies will do watered down ports. Wanna know why? Because they do that now. They've been doing it since day one. How else do you explain Gun and Tony Hawk on 360. Developers are going to be lazy in their ports. it's the nature of the beast. To use the WiiMote and the Wii in general as a reason for lazy ports is retarded. Look at the last generation alone and anyone can see that ANYTHING ported from the PS2 to the Xbox should have looked infinitely better on the xbox. But they didn't. In some cases, the games ran worse on the Xbox.
I like that the Wii is different. Why? Because if a publisher wants to make money on the Wii they better bring something that really takes advantage of the controller and the console. Personally, I don't want me-too-itis across my consoles.
GlitchCog @ Jun 6th 2006 4:14PM
Epic,
"Let's not suggest that the alternative to Wii is nothing but Duke Nukem."
There are, of course, games that aren't like this, but the vast majority of successful PS2 and Xbox games are. This generalization is how the non-gaming population views the video game industry. This is the image that keeps the industry from growing into an art form. It's why Ebert ignorantly says that video games unable to be anything but pornography. People can refute that by pointing at the handful of video games that have true emotional value, or that are graphically beautiful, but the vast majority do fall into the category I described earlier. If Wii wins, this will be more likely to change, and I think that is a good thing for the video game industry. Video games can be more about expression and art, and less about getting teenagers to exclaim, "Awesome, that shirtless manly man has the biggest gun I ever saw!"
Marc @ Jun 6th 2006 4:59PM
Joba,
read your statement
"Tennis outside in the sunshine is a far better alternative than "Wiid Tennis" I really can't see myself interacting with this console other than its traditional gaming control functionality."
I'm O.K. with you thinking this. To each is own.
But for me, exercise IS exercise, right?
Marc @ Jun 6th 2006 5:05PM
DarkSol,
The games at E3 WERE Wii games, but they were running on gamecube hardware. In other words, it WAS watered down graphics on Wii games.
The REAL Graphics will be shown later on.
Marc @ Jun 6th 2006 5:08PM
zsavior,
that's right, vent your anger.
Dark jedi Matu @ Jun 6th 2006 5:10PM
@ glitchcog, dude I agree 100 percent. there is a moment in Zelda: Wind Waker when Ganondorf is describing how his people suffer during the heat of the day and the freezing cold at night in the desert. It is a very powerful scene, one that you don't normally get in games. Final Fantasy is another series that has production values through the roof, Metal Gear Solid comes to mind as well. These games are great and show that games ARE an art form but when a series like GTA gets so much acclaim, you can see Eberts arguement. Is there room for improvement and even greater levels of depth. Of course. Do I want new games with new experiences AND a new control scheme? Sure.
To each his own at the end of the day but one thing that is fact and not opinion is the industry does need a change of some sort.
Pedro @ Jun 6th 2006 5:18PM
This is why I think Nintendo sucks, all this kiddie shit. They are being praised by the NY times for their kiddie, gay console. My last nintendo console was an N64 which had some fun games, but then I played the PS1 I was hooked real games with the content I wanted.
I outgrew Nintendo a long time ago, you can only play Mario for so long. But if you want something for your kids or your parents to play with your kids, this is the way to go. The Wii is just to gay and dumb for me.
Ps Red Steel looked like shit.
striderhayasa @ Jun 6th 2006 5:22PM
I agree @Zsavior. It's a shame because Nintendo had such a presence at e3 that it's now popular to support them. I like the Wii. I'm going to buy one at launch but this type of journalism is the same as bandwagon jumpers that hop on when a terrible team has a run at a championship. All of a sudden, people who didn't have much to say, now have everything to say and want to be seen as an authority. It's hilarious.
Let the Wii stand or fall on its own merit.
Andir @ Jun 6th 2006 5:26PM
...and here I was concerned over the fact that cringer8 thinks a gamers skill is completely relevant to the fact that you play FPS games...
"For those who think the Wii is going to be exclusively a "casual gamer's" machine, check out the launch lineup. Ex.: there are three top notch FPS's available on day one (Metroid, Red Steel, and CoD 3). This system is for *everyone*, including the more skilled gamers."
I for one can't see how anyone can play an FPS without the proper controls of a keyboard and mouse.
Andir @ Jun 6th 2006 5:29PM
Also, I think they killed the Metroid brand when they thought of the idea to go FPS. The original Metroid was prime side scroller gaming.
idioteraser @ Jun 6th 2006 7:55PM
Epic you are really a moron. You can use gamecube controllers on the Wii there is a damn shell that was shown.
Sweat Juicy Jesus traditional gaming isn't dead on the Wii.
Where the frack does the work kiddy come from? How is a game a little kid?
Notice developers are excited about the Wii.
Andir the wiimote and nunchuck are far better then any console controller for a fps ever.
Canned animations what the frack are you talking about? Do you mean the demo that they only had two weeks to do? Funny how playtest impressions of the actual game show no canned animations at all.
Btw any damn console game where you have to do a button combo you are doing a canned animation.
PS3 isn't what is cracked up to be. Eight Days? Do you honestly expect the game to be like the trailer? You do realize that Eight Days can be done on a modern console by replicating what was in FMV games like Crime Patrol and Mad Dog Mcree. Yeah wonderfull tech advance PS3.
How is a game console gay Pedro? How is something gay if it isn't a lifeform with a sexual attraction?
idioteraser @ Jun 6th 2006 7:57PM
Btw Andir side scrolling Metroids are on the GBA. Zero Mission for one. That btw unlocks the original NES metroid when you beat it.
Epic @ Jun 6th 2006 9:19PM
"Epic you are really a moron. You can use gamecube controllers on the Wii there is a damn shell that was shown."
Unless the shell is standard equipment with all retail boxes, developers who need gamepad functionality would be developing for an even smaller market. Did you really need to throw insults to join the discussion?
Brian @ Jun 6th 2006 9:34PM
I view videogames as the next logical step in the way human beings communicate and pass on knowledge. We've seen the epic poem, drama, the novel, the opera, pulp serials, comic books, radio dramas, movies, and television. Video games are the next step. I'm sorry if I don't worship at the temple Mario built but I would hardly consider myself a Square fanboy either (X-2 really offended me and XI was retarded). If I am a fan of any compny it is Bioware who seems to (along with Bethesda to a degree) be quitely changing the way we perceive games. I don't need a remote to experience a great story and it seems to me that Nintendo is shoehorning developers into "innovating" rather than simply telling better stories. I am a programmer in the industry, but I also double majored in film criticism and theory in college so that is the direction I am coming from. I am hoping video games get an artist like Franz Litz, Fellini, Francois Truffaut, Jean-Luc Goddard, DeSica, Kubric, or Wells.
When was the last time a Nintendo game made you feel any sort of emotional involvement? When was the last time you trully felt like you understood the characters of Mario or Samus? When did you last feel like you were looking into their souls?
That is what gaming needs, emotion, not a new fucking controller. Whoever accomplishes this is trully on the path to the "next generation" and is making the move gaming needs to make to become a serious artform. Not to say that Nintendo can't be the one to do this (even though Zelda is the only Nintendo IP in 20 years to have any emotional involvement at all - and even then not much), just saying that this isn't the way. Also, graphics do help in this regard but are not wholly essential. And this obviously doen't include fighting games or racing and sports sims - thosa games are just for mindless fun and (in the case of your sports titles) a forum to emulate one's idols.
And this is just my opinion. I have a certain view on gaming that I know most do not share, I am simply expressing that opinion.
Brian @ Jun 6th 2006 9:39PM
And am I the only gamer insulted by Nintendo's attitude? They seem to be saying, "thanks for making us a huge comapny but fuck you we're gonna make you buy what is essentially a game cube but with a different controller so you can play dumbed down casual games and shitty fps's like Red Steel and a perverted, non-sidescrolling version of Metroid." They seem to be insulting gamers, saying we are all immature little kids when that is noit the case. They are selling out our culture to the mainstream.
Questworld @ Jun 6th 2006 10:35PM
@Andir
It has a wrist strap.
Andir @ Jun 6th 2006 11:04PM
@Questworld: I suppose your going to use it every time you pick up the remote?
vidGuy @ Jun 6th 2006 11:31PM
Brian, how is the Wii a Gamecube? It'll have nearly twice the hardware, play different media, use a different controller, play hundreds of unique games, introduce online downloads via the Virtual Console, allow memory expansion via SD cards and external harddrives rather than memory cards, use Bluetooth for standard wireless controllers, connect via WiFi, and introduce the Connect24 service.
Nintendo's new offerings seem to be on par with what Sony and MS are delivering over the top of their previous consoles. For as many people wanting the over-the-top graphical updates, there's at least as many wanting something different from the videogames. Most of the gamers buying a Wii will also buy one of the other consoles to satisfy their needs in graphics.
Nintendo is also trying to bring videogaming mainstream. Of course this has to do with money, I'm not claiming otherwise, but it is a novel idea. Plus, Nintendo never said they were catering to the hardcore gamer. And video gaming is going to be mainstream within the next 20 years whether people want it to be or not. Something like 60% of people in their 30s or younger play videogames regularly. As those people get older, there will be more market for higher age groups, while the younger demographics get refilled with current-gamers' kids. Once we get passed this older generation filled with Jack Thompsons claiming video games are "the devil", the industry will be accepted as one equal to the movie industry. Ebert can take a back seat to MIT prof. Henry Jenkins.
With games' budgets in the tens of millions of dollars, and more and more Mature gamers attracting the most sales, you've got to wonder why the simple fact that video games are going mainstream isn't more apparent to people.
Brian @ Jun 6th 2006 11:37PM
#38,
It might as well be. It is no better graphically, it just has a different controller.
And I'm tired of people assuming that great graohics preculde great gameplay. Great graphics can draw the user into the environment and convey emotions and feelings better than bland graphics. Again, look at films - sometimes breathtaking scenes can help convey the emotions of the characters. Look at the mythic landscapes of the spaghetti westerns or the stylized action of Sin City.
vidGuy @ Jun 6th 2006 11:52PM
Did you not read the list of other things the Gamecube can't do that the Wii will? I'm sure I even left something out.
I agree with you that graphics aid the gameplay and story, but I completely disagree when you say the Wii's graphics are no better than the Gamecube. Mario Galaxy, SSBB, and LoZ:TP all look great, and are taking as great a leap from their previous versions' graphics as Madden 06 on the 360 took over the XBOX version (or any other current to next gen comparison). Wii Sports has a simplistic style but is very smooth and sharp looking.
Other games shown at E3 look'd unimpressive, but most of those developers have come out to say that the graphics were NOT AT ALL representive of what will be released for sale. They focused on showing gameplay at the E3 demos. And, most of the shots we've seen are digital caps of a screen playing the game, not promo pics made available by the developers. And, I've yet to see a bullshot from Nintendo as off-putting as the Madden 360 pics were.
Plus, for every film that used visuals to pull in viewers, there's one that was an award winner based on story. 12 Angry Men, which takes place essentially in one room with 12 actors, comes to mind.
Graphics are important, I agree. I know that if they had never made a graphical improvement over the NES I wouldn't still be playing videogames today. But graphics don't make a game. I'm impressed visually by what the 360 is offering, but I'm not impressed with the gameplay whatsoever and have therefore yet to find a game worth the price of admission. Table Tennis and Condemned were my two choices out of the weak lineup available now.
Graphics get me into a game. But they only buy about an hour. If the game doesn't hook me from there, I'm walking out just like I'd walk out of a movie that was just a special-effects montage.
Brian @ Jun 7th 2006 12:51AM
I didn't say graphic made a game, just that they can help add to a game's atmosphere And I really don't think the Wii is so much better than the GC as to merit another machine.
For as much as Sony is being lambasted as a money grubbing company Nintendo is just as greedy. Look at how many people are eager to buy a DS again because it doesn't look ugly as sin anymore.
idioteraser @ Jun 7th 2006 1:57AM
The shell is needed for the vc. Nintendo has already spoken about peripherals and how if a game needs them it will be packacked in with the game but not adding cost to the consumer. Notice I said gamecube controller can also be used.
The new controller is to put more of the person in the game. Tell me is pushing a button combo to pull a lever really involving you into the game or reaching out to grab the lever then pulling it back? Well with the wiimote you can reach out and grab it.
Nintendo wants to get away from overly complicated control scheme because guess what 99% of gamers do not want to remember a 17 button combo using two analog sticks to do a single fight move that doesn't do more damage then five two button hit combos.
Nintendo wants to broaden the gamer base because guess the numbers of gamers are in fact shrinking. Tons of people are admitting they have no interest in video games and they name the controller and 40 hour game rpgs as the primary reasons. They state the only thing that will draw them back into gaming is simple quick fun games with fun controls.
Like it or not Nintendo actually has brains to realize the staggering truth which you people refuse to admit. That the video game industry is only getting more money because things cost more not that more people are buying games. Notice how many game development studios have collasped? If the industry was really growing that much as you claim then you would see lots more development studios rather then huge congolerates absoring studios.
Guess no one is forcing you to buy a DS lite. The DS lite came about because Nintendo wanted to make it more attractive to older people in their 50s and up.
You won't see Microsoft or Sony going that route.
Interest in the PS3 in Japan has plummeted to rock bottom unless Sony brings in a ton of games to convice people to lay down the money.
If the Japanese developers abandon the PS3 which it seems a number are already admitting they expect to see the Wii sale six times or more then the PS3 then the PS3 is quite frankly dead.
Sony doesn't really have the first or second party games to draw people in.
Sony is at the mercy of third parties who have expressed enormous displeasuer at Sony and have stated they would rather develop for Nintendo.
It seems that when one asks a game developer who influenced them to develop games they always answer Nintendo and admit to being a Nintendo fan.
Seems only publishers like Sony and that is because Sony throws tons of money at them.
Nintendo has beefed up the number of development teams they have had. Nintendo for most of their lifecycle as a game developer have kept the same development team sizes even though games have increased in complexity. So a game that used to take weeks now can take years with the same team.
This lead to fewer titles coming from Nintendo. They have admitted this is a mistake and they want to crank out the first and second party titles with the same quality as they have always had.
Nintendo game division wise makes more money then Sony or Microsoft. Funny how if Sony is supposed to be so successfull in game console and software then why do they make less profit then Nintendo?
Iruceon @ Jun 7th 2006 2:19AM
All you people are doing are arguing -.-
This is nice publicity for Nintendo even if it is a fluff piece. It shows what we all know, and gives it to the general public, and their target audience, in a good way. Hehe :)
blopa @ Jun 7th 2006 2:35AM
Okay. Im tired of this BS. The wiinote is NOT a gimmick.
Why? Its esentiall, without it u cannot play new gen games
Now, the real gimmicks.
1 ) HD graphics
But, but, the immersion… – PURE BS- graphics whoring, FACT. If the movie its good u can forget u are watching a movie, if the story ist good u can forget u are reading a book, but now matter how good the gaphics are. u know u are only playing a game, even if u have 1 7800gtx- I have 1 ;)
2) bluray / HIdvd
3) faceplates
4) ps3 controller
5) eye toy / xbox camera
6) HDD ( instal the game? Nop. Useless)
7) psp / DS interaction
molecule @ Jun 7th 2006 3:33AM
Nintendo believes the true next generation is to revolutionize gameplay; MS and Sony believe that next-gen is upgrading the graphics. Gameplay > graphics. I guess it really just comes down to whether or not you believe that the wiimote truly revolutionizes gameplay.
And btw, sony's controller doesn't count for "revolutoinizing gameplay", because no person w/half a brain is going to buy a ps3 for the "motion-sensing" controller--they'll buy it for the graphics because the GRAPHICS are what makes the thing SO DARN EXPENSIVE.
2ez @ Jun 7th 2006 4:16AM
kidtendo an dtheir gimmicks, am i rite?
s0ny_Sucks_Piles @ Jun 7th 2006 4:45AM
I thought it may be an idea to check out what this site was like. I was wrong.
Is this a real forum or just a haven for Sony fan-boys? You guys are like the Nouveau Riche of the gaming world. You have no idea of where gaming came from and are quite happy to sit and play iteration 5 of [Insert Generic Sony Game Here]. It's just the SOS with the same play dynamics but "it shure is perty". BTW...I really love that new idea Sony suddenly had - you know with the gyroscopic controller and all that. "They's real clevur..."
Thank god for Nintendo - I actually feel like playing console games again. The release line-up announced thus far looks incredible...pity they are doing a "Sony" and going with so many sequels though.
PS: Learn to spell 2ez...most kids could probably outspell you.
cringer8 @ Jun 7th 2006 4:54AM
@Andir
My comment about FPS's on the Wii was to illustrate that Nintendo is not trying to attract casual gamers only.
Can you imagine a casual gamer or non-gamer choosing a FPS as their game of choice? Those games are there for seasoned (skilled, experienced, practiced, etc.) gamers. Logic is absent in your statement. FPS's take skill to play; that doesn't mean all skilled players play FPS's. Also, the control setup is the BEST setup for this genre.
@Brian
Please stop talking about the Wii's graphics until they are revealed. Nintendo themselves have clearly stated that the consoles at E3 were not complete Wii's. The GPU wasn't complete and only Nintendo knows what else was missing.
The rest of your criticism contains good points (even though they sound like third party issues); just don't talk about the graphics...yet.
BF2Fan @ Jun 7th 2006 9:24AM
Whoa cringer8!
..now before we get all crazy, everyone who has ever done FPS games will tell you that an average person on a keyboard and mouse will destroy the best person on a console controller. there's no comparison. mouse aiming is far more accurate and far quicker to turn (movement = low, acceleration = fast)
lets not even mention the ultra fast weapon switching by simply hitting one key. saying the controller is better is simply telling me that you have very little FPS experience competitively. I have to agree with Andir on this point. maybe if they release a keyboard/mouse for one of the consoles, I'll place a bet with you if you want to try your luck.
r-deezy @ Jun 7th 2006 10:41AM
I do not think this article will do much to sway a non-gamer into buying a Wii. Most people's end opinion will not be based off of a single article. Especially not this bologna. This guy is talking about a product that has not even been completely revealed and hasn't hit the market - most educated consumers would like to hear unbiased positives and negatives surrounding their purchases (especially a $200+ purchase). This guys opinion is obviously scewed toward the positive and i think people will see that.