Rumor: Smash Bros swaps Ice Climbers for Ridley, others
We've got more new information regarding the Smash Bros Brawl lineup, reportedly from game director Sakurai himself from a Japanese radio program. If LiveWii is to be believed, the Sakurai will be adding Ridley, Bowser Jr., and a Wind Waker era Link. Who gets dropped? Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, and Young Link.As most / all the online reports seem to come from the linked French-language site, we are trying to corroborate the news and/or find the original Japanese radio program. Until we get more concrete confirmation, take this as a rumor.
[Thanks, martin and cringer8]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Shogan @ Jun 7th 2006 3:00PM
Do we really need Baby Bowser instead of Ice Climbers? Once you really learned the Ice Climbers, they were really unique and awesome. As for the other two, especially Ridley, hell yes!
White Rose Duelist @ Jun 7th 2006 3:01PM
Dropping Young Link is good, but for a different Link? Feh.
As for the other two removed characters - bad idea. There's too much duplication in other places (Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario, Pikachu/Pichu, Falcon/Ganondorf) that should be dealt with before taking out unique characters.
I won plenty of battles with Ice Climbers. Double points for humiliation.
Rad Thad @ Jun 7th 2006 3:03PM
Isn't Ridley a little big to be in a fighting game?
Sense @ Jun 7th 2006 3:11PM
Thad, I was thinking the same thing.
As for Bowser Jr, why? I hate Bowser Jr. Bring back the old school Koopa Kids! Ludwig Van, Iggy, those guys. They have way more personality than Bowser Jr.
Ridley will be interesting. Frankly, they can drop Ice Climbers if Pichu gets to stay. As many humiliation points as Ice Climbers get you, it's nothing compared to besting someone with Pichu.
C.P. @ Jun 7th 2006 3:12PM
I'm still hopeing that they will drop Jigglypuff. :)
Lightguy @ Jun 7th 2006 3:14PM
Why get rid of Mr. Game & Watch? It's not like they need to improve his graphics, and he already has an original moveset. All they need to do is a super attack for him. Methinks this is a hoax.
thrillho @ Jun 7th 2006 3:17PM
I highly doubt nintendo would ditch mr. game and watch and the ice climbers. right now they are making a killing with nostalgia (NEW super mario bros, Tetris DS has alot of retro elements to it, the virtual console). i'd believe the addition of the 3 characters, but I doubt they scrapped those 3.
Benjy @ Jun 7th 2006 3:19PM
Why get rid of ice climbers when you have pichu and falco who are just clones? It doesn't make sense. Also, the same guy confirmed that there's gonna be about 40 characters. Happy days.
Etheo @ Jun 7th 2006 3:27PM
I almost wet my pants when I saw Ridley's name. It'd be BEAUTIFUL if this is true. However I'd rather they dont' scrap the three, especially Young Link. Young Link can kick adult link's ass any day... and WindWaker Link is... weak. You know who would be a welcoming character though? Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia...
...Jan... Medi @ Jun 7th 2006 3:28PM
I don't see the point of getting rid of them. There's no way it's a space issue. You could fit more characters in the selection screen if you do it right.
It can't be time either. There's no pressure of time like a launch title. They have until early 2007.
Here's my solution. Alternate costumes. Make all the Link clones one icon. But allow the player to switch from Link, Young Link, and Windwaker Link as if it were only changing colors. But, let them have their own properties.
Capt. Castellanos @ Jun 7th 2006 3:29PM
less ditched characters,
just plain MORE characters!
yeah!
Spence @ Jun 7th 2006 3:31PM
All those nights of putting my sausage in your bucket.. You'll be missed Mr. Game and Watch.
A person @ Jun 7th 2006 3:32PM
Since I'm bored and I know french, I decided to translate this, as in not crappy google tranlamation.
"News is abound about Nintendo's next hit [literally: bomb].
This time, it's new names, instead of new pictures [literally: faces], that were revealed to an interview given by Masashiro Sakurai on the radio program in Tokyo, "The Gaming Show."
He confirmed that the following characters will appear in the new opus of Smash Bros."
Bowser Jr.
Ridley, Samus' famous enemy
Link, Wind Waker version
And certain characters will disappear:
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game and Watch
Young Link
Young Link won't really disappear since he'll simply be replaced by the Cel-shaded version and his name will still be the same.
Fans of Falco will be in heaven, since he also confirmed that characters that were otherwise simply "clones" will stay but will be reworked to give them a real set of moves.
According to him, the lack of interest of fans of Game & Watch and Ice Climbers was evident and he decided to replace them with Pit from Kid Icarus.
Pit should be the only one representing the "old school" and the classics.
He finally confirmed that the total number of characters should be near forty, leaving room for about fifteen new characters as well as one or two third party characters."
Then it goes on to list the newcomers that were confirmed beforehand.
I don't know if this will help anyone anywheres...but oh well.
Magus @ Jun 7th 2006 3:33PM
#4
Instead of bringing back the old Koopa Kids, how about either A or B (preferrably B, but A is still cool)...
A.) Make Bowser's special involve the Koopa Kids
B.) Make a Koopa Kid item (like a pokeball?), that once you use it, a random Koopa Kid comes out and does something Koopa Kidd-ey. For example, Ludwig could use some profound scientific machine to mess up your opponents.
Capt. Castellanos @ Jun 7th 2006 3:34PM
to Jan Medi,
I was thinking the same thing.
like samus,
change colors = swith to zero suit samus, or like Dark Samus, or Varia Suit Samus
the possibilities are endless.
they can still add more characters if they wanted too.
Marc @ Jun 7th 2006 3:35PM
"Isn't Ridley a little big to be in a fighting game?"
Isn't Bowser?
But they should keep Young Link, instead of swapping him for another Link. I'm O.K. with the Ice Climbers leaving. I'd be happier if they got rid of Ness though.
Does anyone think that Luigi will make a comeback?
(crosses fingers hopefully until they bleed)
Magus @ Jun 7th 2006 3:36PM
#8
That's when I've been hoping for for a long time. Mario, Dr. Mario, Paper Mario, NES Mario, all on one icon.
NES Link, Wind Waker Link, OoT Link, and TP Link, all on one icon.
If anyone has played Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 2/Naruto: Clash of Ninja 2, note how Mizuki and Iruka share the same icon.
Cage @ Jun 7th 2006 3:37PM
You are now able to post at engadget...
Magus @ Jun 7th 2006 3:39PM
#10
Thanks! Hopefully this is true. While it'd a shame to see the Ice Climbers and Game & Watch go, I think I might favor it as opposed to seeing ALL of the clones go, especially Pichu.
32_Footsteps @ Jun 7th 2006 3:39PM
Wait a minute... if this was actually true, don't you think they'd have an announcement on a Japanese gaming site (or possibly the official Smash Bros. site)? This seems awfully fishy to me.
Still, Nana and Popo were juggletastic. Not only that, but they had a really unique fighting style. They need to be kept. While I'm not as fond of him, I'm hoping Mr. Game & Watch also sticks around.
jOEfRO @ Jun 7th 2006 3:43PM
i agree with White Rose Duelest, why take out a link and put in a different one, and why keep characters with the same powers but different names? they should keep original characters like ice climbers and game and watch but have one link, mario bros, etc. their powers would be: for link he could transform into different eras for a more powerful/slower link or a weaker/faster link, and luigi and mario could do special attacks together and they could summon baby mario/baby luigi and use powers similiar to super mario saga/partners in time...
EP @ Jun 7th 2006 3:44PM
Why not keep all, so everyone is happy?
ElChibo @ Jun 7th 2006 3:44PM
Dude they scrapped Ice Climbers I bet so they can add Ditto which isn't announced yet. If you remember Ditto was supposed to be in SSBM but couldn't because of the Ice Climbers. Click my name to go to my site for more info on why.
ElChibo @ Jun 7th 2006 3:45PM
oh yea my SSBB post isnt on my homepage, click either blog or Wii section
Prof-KOS @ Jun 7th 2006 3:46PM
My list of new characters, for what it's worth;
- Sonic
- Bonk
- Toad
- Daisy (they're short on female characters)
- Waluigi
- Birdo (because she's in friggin' everything lately)
I'm sure there could be more, but that seems a good place to start.
carlos @ Jun 7th 2006 3:49PM
hopefully they bring back the trophies u collected in ssbm to ssbb and in clude hundreds of new ones in ssbb
Drew @ Jun 7th 2006 3:51PM
I never liked the Ice Climbers, Game&Watch, or Young Link so I'm fine with this. I bet they'll include Mario's water jetpack in some facet of this game.
Some other characters I was thinking are possible are Diddy Kong(come on peanut gun!), Ganon (different from Ganondorf; hopefully a big fat pig with a trident), Samurai Goroh or Black Bull from F-Zero, and Ash Ketchum (a move for him would be like charmander pops out quickly shooting a fireball or something).
DCSimian @ Jun 7th 2006 3:53PM
I'm tellin' ya! Simon effing Belmont!
Why not? They got Snake.
Newmiracle @ Jun 7th 2006 4:03PM
Let it be known: Luigi is NOT a Mario clone. He plays SO differently. Get over it.
Getting rid of g&w and the ice climbers was probably the result of examining how people play the game and which characters were used the most. Not alot of people used g&w seriously, and even though there are some ice climbers proponents out there, they weren't that popular either. Thems just the facts, get over it. If we're gonna start to get a larger roster, at some point they have to separate the wheat from the chaff.
If "A person" post #11 did his french translation correctly, I think that the news of Falco not being a Fox clone is HUGE. I've always prefered Falco's strength to Fox's speed, and I'm intruiged as to what they could add as a new moveset.
Swapping Cel-Link in for Young Link is a good idea, I feel. Even if he has all the same moves as Young Link, it brings more variety to the game. As for Young Bowser and Ridley, why not? Again, I feel that variety is key. Of course Ridley will be play balanced and sized accordingly. Young Bowser is cool, but it also makes me think that there could be a young Mario and Luigi in there somewhere. I suppose it doesn't HAVE to be that way, but I don't feel it's an illogical guess. Perhaps an Iceclimbers-esque buddy system?
And in general, imagine some of your first responses to characters you found out were going to be in Melee. "Falco, really? What could he add?" Now my friends and I play him all the time. Who knows how these characters are going to play out. I'm not going to be beholden to my "favorite" characters to play in Melee if I find someone better in Brawl, just like I changed my tastes from the original when I transitioned to Melee. Smash is just a great game, and I'm willing to trust their design decisions because ultimately the combat system makes it addicting. I'll buy it no matter what, the use of established franchises is just tasty frosting on a tasty tasty cake.
jOEfRO @ Jun 7th 2006 4:06PM
Hmm.......I remember back in SSBM that if you inserted a memory card with saved data from PIKMIN, then you got a trophy, maybe in SSBB Captain Olmir will be on? I think it would be cool, his special would be to plant pikmin then when the enemies are over the seeds he would go crazy and unplant all of the pikmin hitting everyone in site. Another great character for a third party character would be Ada Wong from RE, two reasons: they need more females and shes bad ass.
32_Footsteps @ Jun 7th 2006 4:14PM
KOS, just hit the Y button on the character select screen after you've selected Peach. One of her alternate color palettes in SSB Melee is Daisy's.
ElChibo, do you have any sources for that, or is this something that you're pulling from thin air? I could see all sorts of problems a playable Ditto would have (like how you determine which opponent you imitate, whether you'd have any moves at all when in plain Ditto form, and how a match of only Dittos would play). About the best you could do is have it function like Mokujin in Tekken 3, and even then you could just have a second Ditto behind it to imitate the first if Ice Climbers came up on the random spin.
My sincerest hope is they ditch the duplicates (or in the case of really cool characters like Ganondorf, give them radically different movesets) and pack in as many original ideas as possible. The suggestion that they'd take out two original ideas and throw in two more potential dupes is ludicrous, whether or not it's true.
TaiZ @ Jun 7th 2006 4:17PM
I have a feeling MegaMan is going to be in the game, along with hopefully one of the Belmonts. As for getting rid of the characters, Young Link was my best character, but I guess I'll have to switch to my second best, Shiek.
...Jan... Medi, I've been pitching the clothes change = different character idea for a while now, and it's hard to get people to listen to it.
Justin @ Jun 7th 2006 4:22PM
Maybe Liquid Snake will be playable and if both Liquid and Solid are in the same match then Liquid will scream out things like " HELLO BROTHERRRR!!!!"
Ok well maybe not but still it would be interesting to have both the brother of light and the brother of dark in the game together.
jOEfRO @ Jun 7th 2006 4:26PM
Please....NO MegaMan, the franchise will have over 50 games by the time SSBB is out, please!!!!
stapleboy @ Jun 7th 2006 4:27PM
The translation seems awful clear, if it's to be believed. What I can't wrap my head around is the lack of love for Mr. Game & Watch! You get medium speed and strength with a 33% savings on dimensions. Bashing people with a 2D dead turtle is completely awesome.
And seriously, not much beats the bell animation when you win a match and mockingly tell your friends "ding-a-ling, dudes, you can't stop it!" I agree that the more characters the merrier, and really don't see (short of licensing issues) why any characters would be dropped.
Marc @ Jun 7th 2006 4:27PM
Hey joystiq staff,
I'm not complaining, but what's the star for? i don't remember meeting any requirements for a star. Eh....now i'm not being grateful, anyway thanks.
White Rose Duelist @ Jun 7th 2006 4:32PM
Two problems with having different outfits result in different abilities. You would need four outfits for each power set, in case everyone wants to be Zero Suit Samus all at once. Also, it could be confusing to people who aren't intimately familiar with the game to have a character they know well, then change the clothes and get something completely different.
I would agree that less popular characters should get weeded out, except for the fact that there's no real need. between the expanded field and the duplicates that can be edited or deleted, nothing unique should be on the chopping block.
Luigi is not that different from Mario. He has a couple of different moves, but not enough to make him play "totally differently". Dr. Mario is more of a departure, and even he isn't that much different.
Anyone who thinks Ness should go either doesn't understand how to use him or has been abused by someone who does. He has a high learning curve, but is devastating in the right hands.
Ianc02 @ Jun 7th 2006 4:43PM
Problem solved. For everyone who is complaining of the changes, just slip your melee disk into the Wii and STFU. For everyone else, welcome to the updated Wii version. Happy brawling.
skyman8081 @ Jun 7th 2006 4:48PM
Ridley sounds like a nice big easy target for Jigglypuff.
Nobody ever suspects death by the floating pink puffball.
Shiro @ Jun 7th 2006 5:01PM
Just want to let it be known that there will nearly certainly be a tag-team mode, where you choose two fighters and switch between them on the fly.
Speaking of fly, I'd bet my p*n*s that game mode is in there. Yeah, I'm confident.
TDub301 @ Jun 7th 2006 5:11PM
I was a proponent for Ridley, for a few reasons. One because there's only one Metroid character in the game and Metroid deserves at least another if not a few. Ridley can be scaled down (he was the same size as Samus in the first Metroid, does anyone remember that?) Two because he'd be a good unlockable boss character in my opinion. It will be difficult to keep him balanced, though.
Megaman would be great, too. But I think strategically, they need to put Sonic, Tails, and possibly Knuckles in the game. Do you know how many people will want to play the game just to have the ultimate video game grudge match between Mario and Sonic? or their cronies? It would be smart.
Other good third-party characters would be Strider, a character from Final Fantasy 1 (I'd suggest the red mage, more flexibility with a move set), Zero from Mega Man X, or Ryu Habashi from Ninja Gaiden (yes, it was a successful Nintendo game before Microsoft knew what video games were).
Other good first-party characters could be the main boss from Donkey Kong Country (don't know his name), Toad, Star Wolf (maybe other members of his team), and another powerful, cool pokemon instead of gay Jigglypuss and Bitchu (in the Pokemon world, those other 3 wouldn't hold a canlde to MewTwo, right? why are they in his league in this game?)
Oh, one more thing, I read in another site about that interview (that is probably just a rumor anyway), he also said the character count would approach 40, which has me psyched because I live in a PS2, XBox friendly area. Don't know many people to play Smash with, so the fun pretty much left for me when I unlocked everything and could consistently beat the level 9 AI in multiplayer. More things to unlock equals longer interesting gameplay in my opinion. If Melee had been online, I think I'd still be playing regularly to this day, instead of dusting it off every month or 2 when I get the craving to f**k up some of the characters I used to hate.
Oh ya, Simon Belmont, can't believe I forgot about him. He'd be a good character, too
voice of reason @ Jun 7th 2006 5:14PM
it would make no sence to put in bowser jr. or cell shaded link. the reason people didnt like ice climbers and young link will be the same reason they wont like bowser jr. and cell shaded link.
i call them on their bluff.
as for ridley, i think he could very well make a nice appearance
William @ Jun 7th 2006 5:18PM
For everyone who thinks Ridley is too big... Look at Bowser, his proportions are never correct. In SM64, he was huge, yet in every Mario Kart game he's able to fit into a kart.
Kirby is tiny in his games, yet he's not much shorter than Mario in smash.
What I'm saying is, is that they'll adjust Ridley's size for the game. That, or they'll base him off the original 8-bit Metroid Ridley (which would be awesome in it's self).
BPM? @ Jun 7th 2006 5:23PM
To all the "Isn't Ridley too big?" comments...
It should be noted that Smash Bros. isn't made to scale. Kirby, for example, is only eight inches tall. However, in Smash Bros., he's nearly as tall as Mario!
So, don't worry about Ridley's size.
However, I don't like that they're removing any characters. I can understand replacing Young Link with a cel-shaded Link (it isn't specified as TWW Link, so I'm hoping for TMC Link!), but the loss of Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers is unacceptable.
Sakurai stated because there wasn't much fan support for them.
Well, speak up! Let him know you don't want them removed!
Marc @ Jun 7th 2006 5:37PM
White Rose Duelist,
You're probably right about Ness. I just said they should take him out because
1) In popularity, most people don't like him.
2) He has a high learning curve. No character in this kind of game should be so hard to learn control over. For example. If I didn't know how to play as Ness, and i tried him out, but i was destroyed simply because i can't control him, isn't good in this game.
This game should have little to no learning curves, so that when you play, you aren't completely destroyed like in my example above. That way you can still have fun even if you lose a few lives.
Pickypants @ Jun 7th 2006 5:49PM
White Rose, you are wise in the ways of Smash.
But I would try playing some Luigi vs Mario games if I were you. I agree they are vastly different.
Luigi is all about the air game (which is ironic, since he is so slow and awkward in the air), has the torpedo, his trip-jump is much weaker but has a chance to scream someone, his smash is awful, his mid-air smash brutal, and his dash attack ridiculous.
I don't play Luigi as a rule, but one of my smash bretheren does constantly, and it is quite a different feeling altogether.
Personally, I don't mind who they add in/take out, as long as they continue to apply top notch balancing (Marth notwithstanding) and just keep it FUN!
jOEfRO @ Jun 7th 2006 5:50PM
I agree with Marc,
Ness could maybe possibly be gone or even given new moves/easy controls, if I remember correctly the director of the game said the game would be moderate.
also I would hate to play a game and get owned right away by someone who knew the game and all of the special moves, it works for some games but not a game that can be played by anyone.
thats all i want out of Brawl, easy learning curve and no cloned characters.
rainking187 @ Jun 7th 2006 6:43PM
Ness is fairly popular, among all us Earthbound fans at least. Ness was the first character I mastered, and I find the game incredibly easy to play with him. I don't really understand why you're having trouble. Even if you don't like him, doesn't mean they should remove him. I mean I played as Ice Climbers maybe once, but I'm not overjoyed that they were removed.
jOEfRO @ Jun 7th 2006 7:07PM
personally i think the game would rock with master chief and joanna dark in it
MewMewtwo45 @ Jun 7th 2006 7:15PM
Replace Young Link with Midna/Wolf Link from Twilight Princess, drop Dr. Mario for Paper Mario (with a very different move set). I'd replace Falco with Wolf and vary his moves more from Fox. Drop Pichu all together, replace with another cool Pokemon like Deoxys or something. Give Ganondorf his own moveset for sure. Roy and Marth probably won't return, but I'd be surprised if Game & Watch/Ice Climbers did not. For some of Samus' alternate costumes, make them different suits from the Metroid Prime series and other games. For third parties, I'd try and limit it. Viewtiful Joe would be a fantastic addition though, I think. Maybe Kalas from Baten Kaitos. I'd be surprised not to see Sonic now.
That's just some of my thoughts on things they could do.