Tepid Coffee: Take-Two gets foreboding slap on wrist by FTC
The harsh words give the impression that this is the game industry's final warning on the subject of full disclosure to ratings systems -- the FTC ruling did note that all future violations by Take-Two will results in an $11,000 fine per violation (i.e. per game sold). As GameSpot extrapolated, with 7.27 million copies of San Andreas sold in the US, Take Two would have had to pay almost $80 billion dollars.
The Hot Coffee incident involves a sex minigame found in the code of Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, which could only be found by hacking the title or downloading user-made modifications. Although difficult to find (and play), its inherent inclusion (and Take Two's initial denial) ignited anti-game activists and more than a few opportunistic lawmakers into action.
[Thanks, SickNic]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Woody @ Jun 8th 2006 1:32PM
can't you have sex in the sims?
Dallas @ Jun 8th 2006 1:32PM
I'm sure Jack Thompson is screaming in sheer rage from his deep underground lair right now.
Christopher7xii @ Jun 8th 2006 1:38PM
Idiots...
and yeah, you can have sex in Sim 2. Difference is, it alludes to sex as opposed to showing you fuck someone and giving you control. Apparently if it happens off screen (God of War), it's okay.
Monkey 1 @ Jun 8th 2006 1:39PM
Yes you can have sex in the sims but what they do is have them under covers moving around, in GTA SA, they actually show everything to what i hear
Anticrawl @ Jun 8th 2006 1:49PM
It doesn't matter if you can have sex in the sims or whatever else. It says right on the freakin box 17 and up with the mature rating that lists drug use, realistic intense violence, sex, and so on. These bastards shouldn't be complaining, they should read the label.
They cover up the porno section with a little mature plastic thing over the dvd. They should have to post big naked pictures of people having sex to keep you from knowing that yes there is infact naked people having sex in those dvd's behind the M sign that says naked people having sex.
Jesus christ, next person I meet face to face complaining about this I will rip their eyes out so they can have more of a valid point. And violent video games didn't make me do it, it's whiny idiots that drove me to insanity.
Just like people who sue because they spilled coffee on themselves and it hurt because they didn't think that hot coffee wasn't hot.
Peace, love, and snuffin out the retards,
Anticrawl
Anticrawl @ Jun 8th 2006 1:52PM
Also you have to go out of your way to unlock that particular feature, but regardless. What kind of a request is it to have a company list every possible scenario, peice of dialoge, frame and so on to the consumer. No one would look at it anyway, it's not practical.
Anticrawl
"I suppose people are no longer responsible for their own actions. Only half a freedom, what a scary world."
rhork. @ Jun 8th 2006 1:53PM
Rockstar completely set themselves up for this one. All I can ask is that this isn't enforced because of some misunderstanding or unintentional inclusion (i.e.- oblivion's case). As far as hot coffee goes- they should only expect consequences.
Anticrawl @ Jun 8th 2006 1:56PM
It doesn't matter if you can have sex in the sims or whatever else. It says right on the freakin box 17 and up with the mature rating that lists drug use, realistic intense violence, sex, and so on. These bastards shouldn't be complaining, they should read the label.
They cover up the porno section with a little mature plastic thing over the dvd. They should have to post big naked pictures of people having sex to keep you from knowing that yes there is infact naked people having sex in those dvd's behind the M sign that says naked people having sex.
Jesus christ, next person I meet face to face complaining about this I will rip their eyes out so they can have more of a valid point. And violent video games didn't make me do it, it's whiny idiots that drove me to insanity.
Just like people who sue because they spilled coffee on themselves and it hurt because they didn't think that hot coffee wasn't hot.
Peace, love, and snuffin out the retards,
Anticrawl
JodyAnthony @ Jun 8th 2006 2:06PM
im sorry to be a jerk, but why do some people find it necessary to sign the end of all their posts? your pen name is listed immediately after it anyway
Rare Hare @ Jun 8th 2006 2:22PM
rhork (#6) said:
"Rockstar completely set themselves up for this one. All I can ask is that this isn't enforced because of some misunderstanding or unintentional inclusion (i.e.- oblivion's case). As far as hot coffee goes- they should only expect consequences."
Wrong. The Hot Coffee scandal and the Oblivion "tits" situation are NO different. They are both usermade modifications that were made possible by the inclusion of code by the developers. If you incriminate one, you have to treat the other equally. Rebuttals are welcome.
This is absolutely ridiculous, and on so many levels.
1.) SEX SHOULD NOT BE AS TABOO AS IT IS TO AMERICANS. Especially not while we look at extreme violence like it's no more than a cheap movie thrill. I think the Japanese have it right on this one, as their views on the matters are reversed. While the Japanese culture tends to welcome open sexuality, etc., they are a lot more careful with violence.
2.) Yes.. Take Two did get themselves into this in a way by being sloppy. However, even if it's true that they intentionally hid the mini-game and intended for users to find it (through hacking and modification.. right, i don't buy it), this would only get this kind of attention in games! If there was some dry-humping scene hidden on a DVD, it would recieve some attention.. but not LEGAL attention. Kids watch movies too, and parents are just as responsible to ensure that their kids play the right games as they are to ensure that they watch the right movies.
As it stands however, this was not intentionally hidden on the game. Therefore, legal action against Rockstar is even more out of the question.
3.) Am I just reading this wrong, or is there talk of basically taking away the rights of the video game industry to have its own ratings board and system? Are we talking about the GOVERNMENT stepping in here? If the government ever takes charge of ratings in video games, thus treating the game industry as a red-headed stepchild and not equal to other media outlets, I will be protesting. I sincerely hope I'm not the only one who feels that way, as I'd probably look a little silly standing around by myself with a sign.
Hewie @ Jun 8th 2006 2:25PM
I don't know
Sincexretely,
Hewie
doubtful @ Jun 8th 2006 2:38PM
So, if I paint a big ol' pair of lady lumps on the Mona Lisa, does that mean da Vinci was a pornographer? Slap his ass with an 80 billion dollar fine, quick, 'cause I'm getting out my acrylics!
WorldsGreatestDad @ Jun 8th 2006 2:53PM
I personally was very disturbed by this case. I had purchased this game for my 17-year-old son, and right after we finished watching "Faces of Death 7" together we began to play. All of a sudden some group of guys in swat team outfits with RockStar patches kicked my door in, took my computer, and began to download the mod. I told them to stop, but they just kept "modding" my son's computer.
Once they left, and I called Hillary Clinton to comfort me, and then I figured everything would be okay, BUT IT WAS NOT! My son started playing Grand Theft Auto again, and all of a sudden I see him playing this obscene "sex game". I immediately sent him to bed with his live-in girlfriend without dinner, but I don't think he did go right to sleep because I heard lots of banging noises and moaning, but I'm sure they were just hitting each other with blunt weapons like proper Christians.
dvddesign @ Jun 8th 2006 2:57PM
Okay,
#10, Rare...
Japan's a bunch of freaks.
If you've never been, you wouldn't know.
A walk down the street in Akihabara turns up a 5 story shop that sells latex schoolgirl outfits, used panties vending machines, and a 6 story DVD retail shop where each floor is dedicated to a variety of fetishes.
By the way, floor 5 is for people into adult babies, bestiality, and female body hair.
Moving on, Shinjuku's popular entertainment sub-district Kabuki-cho is full of movie theaters, restaurants and bars. It's also full of pimps looking to hustle you for paid sex. Like you can't walk more than 10 feet without someone who speaks perfect english asks you what what kind of "P****" you'd like to see, as they have american, canadian, european, and of course Japanese. Walk away from that guy, the next one 10 feet later has the same pitch.
And lest we forget that Japan censors out genitals on all it's adult materials. Playboys to porno, it's blurred out. To get around it, Japan invented some of the most bizzare fetishes to keep interest.
I could ramble on for hours about how weird-ass Japan is about sex. Maid cafes, paid sex with dolls, "loli-cons", train groping, doujinshi, yaoi, tentacles... They only raised the legal age for women to 18 less than a decade ago. They only got birth control 12 years ago. Maybe you meant europe, because Japan's like the polar opposite of a healthy attitude towards sex.
Dustin @ Jun 8th 2006 2:59PM
This is so wrong in the fundamental of how the rating system is based. Its based on how the came can be played straight from the retail box.
So if I (as a programmer) hack barbie's advneture games to rip off her plastic lag and go around beating people to death with it, what makes it so different? I'm not adding content, i didn't add the gun, i modified the original content that now the game should justify a M rating instead of a T or E.
Its like saying if I take a Britney Spear's song, edit it with Audiocracy and add a profanity every 10 seconds; and then release the MP3 to the world. By their precident, Britney should be fined. It just doesn't make sense. If you can't do it without MODs then it's not justified.
Rating based on unmodified out of the retail box. Period, end of story.
GTG @ Jun 8th 2006 3:03PM
WorldsGreatestDad ...I have to applaud that one. That was definitely a good laugh that'll start off lunch right.
Despite the signature, I have to (and always have) agreed to and reiterate Anticrawl's point. It's an M rated game with M rated warnings that had some inaccesible M-AO rated content that required an active HACK (not just a cheat code or simple trickery) to activate. You could do this with any game (especially PC games) and it's been done for years. This is just slightly different in that it was a minigame rather than just a texture swap.
People also piss and moan about "why did they leave it on the disc?!" Well, despite any "they wanted you to find it" conspiracy theories, it takes awhile to QA and go through the submission process for a game. Major changes to code late in the game (pardon the pun) are desperately avoided on any project and GTA is a LARGE game with probably a pretty messy codebase after a few iterations. Commenting out some function calls versus entirely sanitizing and removing sections of code is a lot safer.
Rawrt @ Jun 8th 2006 4:14PM
Woody has a good point,
What about all the third party porn patches.
Days after Elder Scroll IV:Oblivion came out, there were "nude patches." But Oblivion is rated "M"
The Sims series has had endless amounts of "nude patches" and "Blur remover" and the sims is only rated "T".
What I never understood about this whole "GTA" scandal is... the box says "MATURE."
Which is 17 and up. Now if you are a 17 year old and YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY TYPE OF PORNOGRAPHY EVER, you should come with me and we'll go talk to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. So the idea that a 17 year old may be disturbed by the sexual themes presented in a Mature game is ridiculus.
Second, lets get real, if you are 17 years old and your parents still buy you video games, you should also go talk to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Third, If you are under 17 years old, and your PARENTS bought you a "M" rated game, who is at fault? THE GAME DEVELOPERS OFCOURSE! DUH! I mean, HOW CAN YOU MISS THE BIG WHITE BOX WITH AN "M" in it?
Fourth, hackers found a "UNUSED" code, which can only be accessed by HACKING, violating the limits set by the game developers, or modding. It is ofcourse the developers fault too... Because my 16 year old MAY secretly be a master hacker and stumble upon this unused code.
Fifth, and for this I quote Jack Thompson, "Only two kind of people shoot other people in the face, Hitmen and Gamers!" Honestly, if you Jack Thompson didnt have so much media attention, you would think he is crazy. But he has a suit and tie! and hes on TV! HE MUST KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT!
Lekko @ Jun 8th 2006 6:11PM
If Rockstar makes another sex game we will fine them ELEVENTY BILLION DOLLARS.
Wow.. 80 Billion. They should just do it incredibly blatantly and go belly up just for kicks. That would be the funniest thing ever. Like you press select twice during the start screen of table tennis to play a four-hour orgy with Hitler and a bunch of pokemon. I would have to bow to that. It would be the single greatest statement ever. (sorry for the vulgarity)
Raikage @ Jun 8th 2006 7:29PM
"If there are no wolves, your gonna have a crap load of bunnys and by bunnys I mean stupid people..."
Ahh the wisdom of a ninja...
P.S. "Ask a Ninja" google it.
The Raikage
airpolgas @ Jun 8th 2006 9:06PM
That is a very funny one, Lecko. That will beat the Konami code any day.
Xiath @ Jun 8th 2006 9:29PM
The average legal age of consent world wide is 16, so basically you can have sex but not see other people have sex (even if they are pixelated) untill the age of 18. I don't see how it adds up...
Donald @ Jun 8th 2006 11:00PM
A fair solution, methinks. Although Rockstar does need to bear some responsibility for leaving this code in the game in the first place, they did take care to hide the code. It's not their fault some people have no time on their hands than to go poking through the code to find t3h b00bz.
- Donald
PS: In the interest of full disclosure, I'm wearing a Pixelante t-shirt as I type this post.
PPS: http://jack.thompson.justgotowned.com
intel @ Jun 9th 2006 1:48AM
Sims 2... Difference is, it slludes to sex as opposed to showing you fuck someone and giving...
Controls
Merus @ Jun 9th 2006 1:55AM
This has nothing to do with whether or not it involves sex, guys. I know you guys are Europeans and apparantly everyone has sex in the street or something over there, but Hot Coffee and the Oblivion nude patch have nothing to do with the actual content. It could have been a Mortal Kombat-style falaity patch and it would have attracted the same attention.
The problem was that the content was made and left on the game disc, and not declared as part of the rating process. The varying standards of sex, violence and language in the United States is a separate issue to the one at hand, which is that Rockstar sold something they didn't tell the ESRB about.
They thought it was okay to leave on the disc because you couldn't access it through normal channels, but there's been precedent here (I recall one developer was sued for putting a copyrighted cartoon on the disc to fill up space, even though it was just the raw data) and everyone in the game industry knows by now that players will find everything in your game.
Flauzo @ Jun 9th 2006 6:50AM
The ability to control the content stored on a disc may not yet be realizable.
Many, varied factors - from all directions - contribute to a product's entity in completion. Too much may still be misunderstood about the energy of intension (and its contributive effect toward an entity) - or, the direction and flow of that energy may lack judicious application.
Doug the Aquacell Guy @ Jun 9th 2006 8:53AM
WorldsGreatestDad +1 star
Lekko +1 star
Donald +1 star for that link.
This is why I don't moderate Joystiq, because I'd give out stars like candy on Halloween.
What I don't understand, sort of along the lines of that person who asked why the age for consensual sex is 16 and the age for watching people have sex is 18 is why we North Americans have one 17+ rating and one 18+ rating, with nothing in between 13+ and 17+. (Australian and European boards have 15+ and 16+ respectively.) E10+ was a step in the right direction, let's keep going...