Moore backtracks on back-compat comment
After appearing to renege on a previous commitment to have original Xbox titles playable on the Xbox 360 "until consumers show lack of interest" (according to the community backlash, they haven't), Peter Moore apologized to Major Nelson for "all the trauma I caused to gamers." Moore clarified that "we're going to get darn close to that stated goal of every title done," bringing this whole issue almost entirely full circle. You can listen to Major Nelson's podcast here. We are glad to see Moore do the smart thing, admit his mistake, and buckle under community pressure, because there are still a large group of people who enjoy their Xbox One libraries.
[via Evil Avatar]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
dan @ Jun 13th 2006 1:28PM
actually there is a new update out today that adds support for 21 more games.
RyanDavid @ Jun 13th 2006 1:34PM
I can confirm that Star Wars Lego is working on the XBOX 360.
el nico @ Jun 13th 2006 1:34PM
LEGO STAR WARSSSSSSSSSSSSSSU!!!!!!! and DOOM! where's conker? and soul caliber?
Alex Keen @ Jun 13th 2006 1:37PM
The list is up. Still a lot of great titles missing. This lists looks like they targetted maybe 6-7 games and the rest just happened to fall into place. Games I'm still hoping make it eventually:
Phantom Dust
Oddworld Stranger's Wrath
Indigo Prophecy
Kung Fu Chaos
that guy @ Jun 13th 2006 1:41PM
I friggin' wish they'd make every NEW game that comes out for Xbox compatible for 360. That would be a start.
Scrabcake @ Jun 13th 2006 1:42PM
Yay Microsoft. The one I was banking for, Morrowind, still isn't on the list...but I'm glad that they're sticking with BC. It's appreciated.
devi8i @ Jun 13th 2006 1:45PM
#5 if they did that then how could they justify makin you shell out an additional $20 for the official 360 version?
Jouten Za @ Jun 13th 2006 1:45PM
Yes, it is nice to see this. It's a refreshing change from some of the other corporate entities out there.
I can't even believe I'm saying this about MS. I guess I shouldn't let my dislike for some companies blind me so much to the 'brighter' points of their existence.
LunarDuality @ Jun 13th 2006 1:46PM
Just goes to show you what happens when "journalists" confuse the phrase "nobody is concerned" with the phrase "nobody cares". Also a lesson for all of us to seek out the source -- where the intent becomes more clear.
I'm happy that updates continue (even though I rarely use them) but worry that with each update, the vocal minority only gets louder because "their" games didn't make the list while other games did. I'd still love to see Rallisport Challenge 2 and Psychonauts added but I'm glad they are working on this at all.
(And why are so many people out there whining about Counter Strike?!?)
spoo @ Jun 13th 2006 1:49PM
Here is the list. I don't care much for BC but 80% of this list fits in the "why" category.
1. 4x4 EVO 2
2. Amped® 2
3. Bad Boys 2
4. Big Mutha Truckers
5. DOOM 3®
6. Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
7. Fatal Frame™
8. FlatOut™
9. Grabbed by the Ghoulies™
10. Intellivision Lives
11. LEGO® Star Wars®
12. Minority Report
13. MLB SlugFest 20-04
14. The Punisher™
15. RalliSport Challenge
16. Silent Hill® 4: The Room
17. Spawn® Armageddon
18. Spider-Man
19. Star Wars Battlefront™
20. State of Emergency
21. Zapper™
LunarDuality @ Jun 13th 2006 1:52PM
People, realize that the "new" games that are coming out will alwaysbe the most difficult to emulate because they really squeeze outevery last ounce of power (and leverage 5 years worth of proprietarycoding tricks to get there).
MS wasn't/isn't joking when theysaid/say that initially they thought they might get 2 dozen gamesworking with this, total! It's not easy.
And regarding the 80% "why" factor -- as has been stated a million times, MS builds emulation code for specific games (the 20%) and then runs that code against every game in the library to see if any other games work "for free". That's why games like Barbie and others are on the list. End of story.
that guy @ Jun 13th 2006 1:57PM
Heheh, good call devi8i. Touche.
Jcarpio @ Jun 13th 2006 2:00PM
Maybe Sony can learn a lesson or two of how to do backwards compat with software, instead of sticking previous gen parts into a next gen box.
Grindstone @ Jun 13th 2006 2:06PM
Is it just me, or does Peter Moore look like the devil in that picture? Sure, it's been a while since I last visited the old dragon, but the red and black combination has a certain evilness about it. I'm not hating on the devil or Mr. Moore, as that would be un-PC, but it is a picture worth a 1000 words.
Oh, and the growing BC list is nice for those who enjoy old games. Good for you.
Smellslikepie @ Jun 13th 2006 2:07PM
I'm sure he didn't admit his mistake, nor did he buckle under community pressure. He said that the quote was taken out of context. It's much like the business with Phil Harrison claiming that you don't need a PC when if you have a PS3 when he was talking about Windows Media Connect. Anyway, this is what Peter Moore had to say about it:
"'Nobody is concerned about Backwards Compatability anymore.' Meaning that people were, based on what we had said at E3 2005 when the top selling games would be backwards compat but quite frankly didn't give a number and were a tad vague. And there was alot of consumation, as you remember as to "what does that mean?!" "what are the top selling titles?!" "How many is that?!". And our team went off and did unbelieveable software emulation. And now here we stand at over 200 titles backwards compat. And so what my words were that nobody is concerned about backwards compat were mis-interpretted as nobody CARES about backwards compat, and that's not the case at all"
So in that extract from the interview you can see that he doesn't "buckle under community pressure", nor does he "admit his mistake". He points out that his words were misconstrued (sp?) by journalists.
SuicideNinja @ Jun 13th 2006 2:08PM
Wow, a rep that APOLOGIZES for a blunder and ensures the correct move?
SONY! HEY! YOU OVER THERE PLAYING WITH YOUR FOREMAN GRILL! Watch and learn from Peter Moore. Less blasphemy, and more gamer talk.
If Sony had a rep like Peter (as opposed to Kutaragi, Harrison, or Hirai), I think they'd be fairing a lot better with the gamer community even with their ridiculous pricing.
spoo @ Jun 13th 2006 2:09PM
@LunarDuality, I know the reason the games are on the list but this list has more fluff then the original BC list. I'm not hating on MS, but I don't 100% agree with the "for free" line. They still have to debug the code and spend man hours tweaking the code for the "for free" games. It is more believable that MS is putting the fluff games on the list because they are an easy way to move the # up to "X" amount of games on the BC list.
RazorElite @ Jun 13th 2006 2:16PM
Yeah, whats up with that list?? I mean, Bad Boys 2!! Plus pretty much all the games there that have sequels, they did the first version. I don't really see the big deal, afterall, it's 21 more games out of like the 600+ remaining and its been 7 months since the 360 has been out. By the time they are finished with most the games, definitely no one will care about it anymore. I for one don't already. Xbox games look pretty 'bad' after getting used to the 360's sharper nicer looking graphics. However, I do think they should just be pushing the major titles instead of crap less than 1% of 360 owners will prolly want to play anyway. I understand some of these games are just 'bonuses', but come on, its only 21. If you gonna be doing crap games, at least do A LOT of crap games at one time.
Clint @ Jun 13th 2006 2:17PM
So the thing's been out that long and they are still trying to make it work! The PS2 played my old games from day one. The PS3 will too. How lame are they? A console isn't like Windows. It should work when I buy it. I shouldn't have to wait months for them to make it play my game collection. Sony kicks their butts in this area!
jabbertrack @ Jun 13th 2006 2:17PM
"We are glad to see Moore do the smart thing, admit his mistake, and buckle under community pressure, because there are still a large group of people who enjoy their Xbox One libraries."
Admit his mistake? Did you guys "RTFA" (or LTTFP since it was a podcast)?
I just think it's funny that the gaming media... (and don't worry I even count bloggers) lambasted someone for an article they read that completely misunderstood the man's point, took his quote out of context... and ran with it, and now that he has a chance to clear things up... everyone who printed "MS DOESNT CARE ABOUT BC" now says "appology accepted".
It wasn't HIS mistake. It was YOURS.
But since you're the one posting the text... I guess it's whoever's fault you want it to be eh?
I
jabbertrack @ Jun 13th 2006 2:20PM
well my post got screwed up but what I was saying is:
I HEART Joystiq and I can't understand why you guys can't see this situation with more clarity since you aren't media outlets like IGN.
Jeff @ Jun 13th 2006 2:23PM
"Maybe Sony can learn a lesson or two of how to do backwards compat with software, instead of sticking previous gen parts into a next gen box."
So Sony should learn the lesson that it's better to give customers a fraction of what they want, tell everybody that they don't actually want what they say they want, then buckle under and admit that it's going to take a really long time to "get darn close" to the goal they set originally?
And how is this better than simply having 99% of games run with full compatibility on day one, through hardware?
Clint @ Jun 13th 2006 2:28PM
Jeff,
I understand your comment, but you have to remember these are the XBox freaks that Weird Al sings about in his new song...
They are half-dressed, eating chips off their chest while they're playing Halo 2! No one's classier than you...
You're pitiful...You're pitiful it's true..
KilgoreTrout XL @ Jun 13th 2006 2:31PM
Fair enough- credit goes to Peter for admitting a mistake, but none to the 360 as a whole, which, even when looked at reasonably and realistically, has overpromised and wantonly underperformed as to backwards compatibility. My #1 complaint with the otherwise outstanding system.
Games [still] on my BC wishlist: KOF: Crusaders, BG&E, Psychonauts.
TxdoHawk @ Jun 13th 2006 2:37PM
I have to laugh at the people who honestly think Peter Moore wasn't talking out his you-know-what when he made these follow-up comments. What do you think he was getting at when he originally said "we underpromised and overdelivered"? He was trying to casually brush off BC, plain and simple. The community response scared him senseless, and he wisely decided to double-back.
Forget the journalists. I can't believe some of you readers couldn't see through such a thin excuse. No wonder politicians get away with murder these days.
Smellslikepie @ Jun 13th 2006 2:41PM
Kilgore Trout Xl:
Overpromised and Underdelivered? Microsoft promised the best selling games to be available, but they didn't state when and how many. Infact, they've delivered exactly what they promised! Some of the Best Selling games for the Xbox ARE Backwards Compatible!
I know, I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's true!
Noel @ Jun 13th 2006 2:41PM
Still missing Sid Mieir's Pirates.
jabbertrack @ Jun 13th 2006 2:46PM
I'm selling 100% backwards compatible 360s for $600. Just let me know if you want one.
I basically stole the idea from Sony
All it takes is 1 XBOX, 1 360 and 1 roll of duct tape.
KilgoreTrout XL @ Jun 13th 2006 2:47PM
Touche, Smells.
(KOF: kingdom ON fire, I guess. Made me laugh.)
NO PULSE @ Jun 13th 2006 3:24PM
Everyone should read #19 before commenting.
This is not Moore's mistake.
Alex Keen @ Jun 13th 2006 3:39PM
Ross,
Did you even listen to the podcast you linked to? Peter Moore said he was misquoted and with an update so quick to hit the streets... it's pretty obvious that Microsoft hasn't stopped working on BC.
SuicideNinja @ Jun 13th 2006 3:52PM
Backwards compatibility is cool and all, but I don't want to pay to have the old hardware inside of my new hardware. It doesn't belong there. I'd rather just keep my PS2 for a few games I might play again.
Staticneuron @ Jun 13th 2006 4:08PM
"Just goes to show you what happens when "journalists" confuse the phrase "nobody is concerned" with the phrase "nobody cares". Also a lesson for all of us to seek out the source -- where the intent becomes more clear."
My comprehension may be lacking a bit but I would think that concern and care are very similar statements so I hit the dictionary to see the differenc.
Concern:
To be of interest or importance to
To engage the attention of; involve
Regard for or interest in someone or something
Care
To be "concerned" or interested
To object or mind
To be concerned to the degree of
To wish; desire
They way I see it no matter what wording he used the same flag would have gone off in my head. I do not see that much of a difference between those two words.
Darth Pixel @ Jun 13th 2006 4:14PM
Still less than 35% of Xbox games are compatible.
The list of games that are compatible is a grab-any-title-that-can-be-made-to-work kind of job, where title quality, sales rank, popularity with some, game design merit have no part.
Clearly, not even all games released by Microsoft Game Studios are covered.
Now, Peter recognizes he just had to make a promise to kill the negative uproar. So, he made a promise.
He did not give a deadline for even 50% completion, let alone 90% completion. He did not say which games will be next.
He just hopes his promise will hold until the masses stop caring about BC.
I guess it has to hold until all 3 next-generation consoles are out. After that, gamers will have many other things to compare.
:)
That's called clarity.
jabbertrack @ Jun 13th 2006 4:15PM
Well it really depends on the question or topic of convorsation... does anyone really know how it went down?
So say you were talking to ol' Pete and you were saying:
"Hey man there's not that much headway on the BC titles right now, is MS concerned that they will reach a wall anytime soon?"
His answer would make sense... but taken out of context it would anger some gamers.
Now if the question was:
"Hey man your BC library sucks, why don't you care about BC?"
Then the answer would surely anger people.
So where's the original convo? Where's the audio of him saying that and the leading question?
No? Don't have it? Then you may as well be Fox News.
Staticneuron @ Jun 13th 2006 4:48PM
Taken from Gameindustry.biz
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17398
"Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under promised and over delivered on that. It's a very complicated thing... very complex work. I'm just stunned that we have hundreds of games that are backwards compatible," he said.
Yep.... still raises the same flag to me
jabbertrack @ Jun 13th 2006 5:55PM
"Yep.... still raises the same flag to me"
Then you're as guilty as the rest of the media. Where's the goddamn question? Where's the article? If this is some "UK games website" where is the website? Who did the interview?
Are we really as dumb as some of the political media bullshit I see on the news every night? Has it come down to who can bait the best soundbite/quote and print it in HTML?
Ross Miller @ Jun 13th 2006 6:45PM
Let me ask you guys this -- had the community not raised an eyebrow at his "misconstrued" comment (we can debate the semantics between "concerned" and "care" all we want) ... would future BC updates be promised? I'm tending to think not as much.
-Rosco
Rhys @ Jun 13th 2006 7:00PM
Just a note, particularly to jabber and those who are ranting. The original quote was taken out of context, and now this ‘apology’ would have you think that Moore was coming crawling back on bended knee.
The original quote was in response to a specific question. The interview was done just after E3-2006. They talked about E3-2005 where there was uncertainty in regards to how backwards compatible the 360 was going to be and how many games would be backwards compatible at launch.
Peter said, “Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under-promised and over-delivered on that."
He meant “Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility” (as we have over 200 on the list and the list is growing), and “We under-promised and over-delivered on that” (because we had far more BC games ready at launch day then was expected).
He did not mean nobody cares anymore about backwards compatibility.
He did not mean we under-promised and over-delivered the number of games that are now on the list.
In regards to the Major Nelson interview:
Peter Moore did not apologise for the comments.
Peter Moore did not say that he was incorrect.
Peter Moore did not apologise for any misunderstanding.
Moore said he was sorry if people were worried. He’s sorry for you, not apologetic. He also commented that he would have correct the misunderstanding sooner but he was overseas.
Staticneuron @ Jun 13th 2006 7:55PM
http://games.kikizo.com/news/200605/155_p2.asp
There is the article.
http://games.kikizo.com/features/petermoore_videoiv_may06.asp
And just in case you do not believe the print on the webpage above is the video interview that he did.
Rhys after watching that video I am curious as to where you got "your" information about the context of the question. The question seemed very direct and not an afterthough of previous one.
Seriously people, if you are going to doubt what any website says..... why are you here on a "website" bashing the integrity of information that comes from a "website"
Rhys @ Jun 13th 2006 8:04PM
Staticneuron:
That's what Moore said in the Major Nelson interview. More said that the comments were in that specific context.
As 15# said:
"'Nobody is concerned about Backwards Compatability anymore.' Meaning that people concerned, based on what we had said at E3 2005 when the top selling games would be backwards compat but quite frankly didn't give a number and were a tad vague. And there was alot of consumation, as you remember as to "what does that mean?!" "what are the top selling titles?!" "How many is that?!". And our team went off and did unbelieveable software emulation. And now here we stand at over 200 titles backwards compat. And so what my words were that nobody is concerned about backwards compat were mis-interpretted as nobody CARES about backwards compat, and that's not the case at all"
So:
“Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility” (People can see we can, will and are doing it), and “We under-promised and over-delivered on that” (because we had far more BC games out the gate at launch day then was expected).
I'll watch the video you linked now.
Rhys @ Jun 13th 2006 9:50PM
Seen it all now. Nothing to make me eat my words. The question asked was: "We didn’t hear you talk about Backwards Compatibility at this years conference. (Peter chimes in with: "Didn't need to.") When are there going to be some more titles?"
I’ll definitely say that it was far more borderline then I thought it was going to be.
It still seems (to me) that the comments he made were addressing the comment that he had not spoken about BC at this years E3… hence his response that he didn’t need to talk about BC because no one was concerned (worried) about that anymore.
Having said that, even from the interview, it could be seen as him saying nobody is interested anymore.
In favour of BC he said: "… it’s a very complicated setup, and I’m really the wrong guy to talk about it… I’m stunned at the hundreds of games we have backwards compatible, and more are coming."
Against BC he commented later that there would be a time where “enough was enough” and that sooner or later nobody will care anymore. That’s true, but not until there are a LOT more 360 games. No one is playing PS1 games on their PS2s anymore – but it’s premature to be throwing that around that comment in regards to the 360.
Again, he did say, "I'm the wrong guy to talk about this," and on that score I think we can all agree that he was 100% right. ;)
Conn @ Jun 13th 2006 11:58PM
It's nice to see that Microsoft hasn't given up on backwards compatibility yet :).
I wish there was a section on the BC list that allowed you to suggest titles you wanted to play on your 360- it would really stop everyone complaining that their favourite title isn't compatible yet. And there's probably a few games like Jet Set Radio Future or Metal Slug 3 that wouldn't be backwards compatible for a long time unless there was a huge demand.
Also, #7 (devi8i)? I'm assuming #5 (that guy) didn't want every new Xbox game to also be on the 360, but rather that Microsoft immediately have the new title backwards-compatible.
Gareth @ Jun 14th 2006 5:00AM
I have no idea what he's like in real life, but he does look like one sly son of a bitch - in this picture especially.
Staticneuron @ Jun 14th 2006 9:29AM
"Seen it all now. Nothing to make me eat my words. The question asked was: "We didn’t hear you talk about Backwards Compatibility at this years conference. (Peter chimes in with: "Didn't need to.") When are there going to be some more titles?"
Then afterwards he makes the infamous comment. In the context of the interview I still do not get how you assume that he is talking about last years response and reaction to BC when fielding a direct question about this years press conference.
It seems like you are listening to his conversation and then implying your own meaning to it. Because I f I cannot readily understand that he was talking about last years E3/response than the error is on his part. He miscommunicated. All the talk about the press taking him out of context is unfounded. It only turns out this way because this time there is video proof.
Unfortunatly for the times when there is no video proof there are still going to be claims of misquotes or things taken out of context. It only complicates things even furthure when you try to explain what was being implyed without any hint of context in the actual interview.
Blackfish @ Jun 14th 2006 12:10PM
To the original author of this blog entry:
Moore is just being polite in his "apology". There is no back-tracking required...
If you would LISTEN to the podcast interview with Major Nelson, Moore CLARIFIED his comment by helping some bloggers understand the difference between:
"Concern" and "Care"
He never said nobody CARES anymore, meaning nobody will work on it... He meant that there is less concern because so many titles are supported and the library of 360 native titles has grown and is quite strong.
BC development continues... fear not.
DRO @ Jun 14th 2006 12:41PM
Where's XMEN Legends and XMEN Legends II? Bring Em!
VampireHunter Z @ Jun 14th 2006 1:27PM
I don't see the big deal about BC. As a matter of fact Moore should have said no one CARES about BC. If you cared about old games that much you should have shown more support in the last gen. I hear alot of excuses that "I didn't own the 1st xbox and now I want to play those games". Maybe you should have supported the old xbox.
I have both systems hooked to my TV and I haven't turned on my xbox1 in months. Hell, Halo 2 works what else is really needed. I'm glad PGR2 is not BC because someone had to stop me from playing that game. Anyway as the 360 library gets larger I guess people will care less about BC.
Staticneuron @ Jun 14th 2006 3:42PM
"Anyway as the 360 library gets larger I guess people will care less about BC."
Could also be misconstrued with "Anyway as the 360 library gets larger I guess people will be less concerned about BC."
Carefull there... you are treading a fine line.