Griefing and self-governance in online games
The Guardian has produced an excellent column that addresses the problem of "griefers", people that abuse, team-kill and cheat other players of online games, particularly MMOs. Griefing has always been a problem where real players compete against their peers, although with massively multiplayer online games the problem has become much more serious. Earning a battleship in Eve Online or crafting a special item in World of Warcraft can take weeks if not months of game time. On top of that, the recent trend for people to sell items on auction sites like eBay has meant that rare online items have a monetary value.The article cites several high profile situations where griefers have bent moral codes with the Guiding Hand Social Club's ruination of Ubiqua Seraph in Eve Online and the funeral crash in WoW being the two main examples. Solutions that companies have come up with to limit these types of situations from happening are also looked at with the Xbox Live points system and strong community measures (like guilds and friend lists) being top on the list of letting players self-govern the problem. Effective community governance is essential if companies want to keep players inside the game and so that the owners don't have to resort to more drastic measures, like Blizzard does with its periodic account banning binges.
Update: fixed a couple of minor grammatical errors.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
PsyClerk @ Jun 15th 2006 7:22AM
Despite what the article implies, the mass bannings conducted by Blizzard are almost all the result of TOS violations, not griefing (though I guess you could argue that it's indirect griefing). Usually they ban accounts that are farming gold to be sold, often through the use of unattended bots. Notice that in Blizzard's last ban announcement, they mention that the banned accounts represented about 30 million gold.
PodMonkeys @ Jun 15th 2006 7:47AM
I once ran into a cave room, and took on 5 mobs that were there. As I was about to finish off mob #5, I noticed someone enter and start heading for the chest in the back. I quickly dispersed of mob#5, ran to the chest and started looting before he could. The guy then proceeded to call me a ninja and said that I was "in violation of Blizzard rules, noob."
But yeah, I hate people stealing my hard earned rewards.
Jdoki @ Jun 15th 2006 8:26AM
The saying 'one man's meat is another man's poison' applies here.
Griefing is only griefing if it falls outside of the TOS or some moral line that the developer draws. Some people thrive on givign and receiving grief; mainly in the form of smack-talking.
It's difficult to say what actually construes griefing - for example; is it griefing when a Corp in EVE destoys months (perhaps years) of work by another Corp using methods that are borderline against the TOS, but within the game mechanics, then brags about it?
In EVE this is almost seen as Role Play in its purest form.
However the same can not be said if this happened in WoW. Different games have different 'lines in the sand' which can not be crossed.
Is it griefing if a player is racist in Role Play - not aimed at the individual but aimed at the character the player has assumed in the game? What about the race in EVE that are slavers? If a player, playing as a slaver, is offensive to some who chooses a race that is subjugated by the slavers is it griefing?
And this is where player policing comes in to effect. Part of MMO's is about trust, respect for others in real-life if not for in-game character, and common sense. Another part is developers making it clear where the 'line in the sand' is drawn and ensuring that players who cross this line are dealt with quickly, effectively and severely.
Any tools that are provided to help gamers protect themselves and police the game should be welcomed. There is also the argument that developers should police the games as well, and this can be part of the game design process as well as a pro-active effort after release. Does it always happen? Not always.
No one should have to put up with what they feel is unacceptable levels of grief from another player (or group of players), but the moral and logisitcal problems with defining what grief is can be almost impossiblem with in the framework of a game.
(Obviously I'm focusing mainly on MMO games in my post - grief over Xbox Live etc is a different matter)
Spence @ Jun 15th 2006 8:50AM
Boo hoo, life isn't fair.
Survival of the fittest, adapt to your surroundings or die.
Quit your whinging you lamers or get a life.
Nobody cares.. this merely represents society, greed and jealousy.
DG @ Jun 15th 2006 9:13AM
"Update: fixed a couple of minor grammatical errors."
That seems to happen a lot. Don't you guys proofread before you post?
mocax @ Jun 15th 2006 9:40AM
poof readnig will reduce this blog into an evil news site
Jdoki @ Jun 15th 2006 10:00AM
@5 - I'm sure some of us try to. Unfortunately when the boss is lurking sometimes I just have to hit the button! :-)
@4 - That's rubbish. It may only be games that we play, but a minimum amount of respect for a fellow human should not be too much to ask - online or off-line.
It's easy for some cowards to wrap themselves in the warm and cozy blanket of anonimity while online. I fear for the day when people treat each other in real-life with the same level of contempt we see online.
There's a fine line between griefing and bullying - and as these ARE just games, everyone should be allowed to enjoy their time in the game - this become even more pertinent when a person is paying to play.
However, as I imply in my previous post; as long as the griefing is with-in the defined limits the developers place on their product then people should either 'put up or shut up'.
futurebiblehero @ Jun 15th 2006 10:16AM
I don't think the point system would entirely work. The douches in these games not only stick together, but are generally the ones to rise to the top. For every point of negative feedback added by a disgruntled pick-up group member, you have an entire guild of morons providing positive feedback for the said person. It's almost futile.
alienhead_69 @ Jun 15th 2006 10:21AM
Screw MMO's. I was in at the beginning of everquest (i pre-ordered it.) I got so sick of that crap. I dont play them any more.
arrakisman @ Jun 15th 2006 11:26AM
Say what you want about how an instanced world like Guild Wars is not a MMO. Its nearly imposible to have the level of greifing in that game that you can get with WOW or EQ. I think the worse I have seen is a guy who tags along on a FOW or UW quest and picks up the drops but never fights.
doubtful @ Jun 15th 2006 12:01PM
Sounds like people are upset about human nature. Maybe they shouldn't play games with humans. Seems like it is all part of the game to me.
Ryan @ Jun 15th 2006 12:58PM
@10
I agree. I can't tell you how many times I've exploited glitches in games I own (like the 1-up glitch in SMB). This used to be called "strategy". I don't see anything wrong with doing something the game allows. I think the problem stems from people placing too much value in a non-existent virtual world. These things are worth nothing, despite what eBay may tell you. I know I wouldn't pay one cent for something as intangible as WOW gold.
I remember a time when it didn't matter what you possessed in a game because it was about achieving personal goals. Now it seems it's all about achieving wealth in a made up, impersonal world run by anonymous introverts. I miss the arcade.
Ryan @ Jun 15th 2006 1:02PM
P.S. -- This comments system can be considered griefing. It takes a millennia to get comments to appear and the email verification is a pain in the butt. You guys need to get together with Engadget. They've actually addressed the problems of their comments system and are in the process of changing it completely.
Jaded @ Jun 15th 2006 1:05PM
Yeah I agree with comment number 3. Ganking and "ninja looting" in Warcraft is much different from what happened in EVE where, from the looks of it, the whole thing was done by a group who were role playing professional thieves. Personally, although I would hate to have been on the receiving end of that (I don't play EVE, so I can't really get a sense of how much they stole), I think the fact that organizations like that exist in the game world makes it a much richer place.
StuartL @ Jun 15th 2006 1:08PM
Self regulation could work. Maple story offers each player the ability to add or take fame (once per day) from other players.
In WOW you could call this honor, so when someone is cheap/dis-respectful/racist you penalise them -1 honor. Which in turn could affect their interaction with npcs and other players people with low honor may get kicked out of guilds etc....
Dustin @ Jun 15th 2006 1:45PM
Yeah has happened to me, I play a rogue though ;)
I just vanish and then the mobs aggro them, depending on their class ill either start mining or wait for them to kill it then park the ore..works great, even had people curse me after for some reason...
Grant @ Jun 15th 2006 1:52PM
I think if you want an MMO game to be an immersive and full simulation of reality, you have to allow for the possibility of crime. Stealing DOES exist in the real world, so people should be allowed to steal in MMO games, if you want them to be as "real" as possible. But of course, in the real world, stealing comes with the risk of getting caught and jailed. If people steal in MMO games, there should be a way that they can get caught and go to "virtual jail" for a period of time. Banning accounts is similar to what I'm thinking of, but it should be for a limited amount of time, at least for stealing, just as it is in reality. Maybe when people try to log on to WoW, they're in a virtual jail cell and can't move for 30 days or so. That would be neat. But I don't think you should outright ban the practice of stealing. If I want to play an MMO and define my identity, I might want to be a thief, and that should be okay, as long as I can deal with the risk of getting caught and imprisoned.
As a disclaimer to the above, I have never played an MMO game. I'm just speaking from what seems to me to be a common sense answer to this problem.
James L @ Jun 15th 2006 2:01PM
Umm, I want to start Eve just because i see how an ADULT MMO can be played. I agree with the poster on the EVE forum that says "I never trust anyone whos home address i don't know". I like Guiding Hand. They used people's stupidity against them and came out on top.
Man I gotta get that game.
The ZeroCorpse @ Jun 15th 2006 2:34PM
I've playtested many MMORPGs, and yet I never love them. I played City of Heroes for a while, but even that has become boring. World of Warcraft lost me quite a while ago, because it's all so fricking pointless. There's NOTHING to do. You're just performing the same actions over and over, and they do nothing to make the game exciting or interesting. Add in bunches of people chatting about the real world (and not role playing) and people whining about the way the game works, and MMOs become very unpleasant places to be.
I've tried, but no MMO has gripped me long enough for me to bother sticking with it beyond a year. What turns me off most is how crippled you are at low level, and the whole grind. It just FEELS like it's being drawn-out so they can make more money on monthly fees, and when you finally get to high levels it's like "OK. Now what?" and there's no real reward.
MMOs suck. They will continue to suck until they step away from being marketing projects ("how long can we make them stick around and pay to level up a character") to actual interactive gaming experiences with fully-developed characters.
Crackjaw @ Jun 15th 2006 5:39PM
This is why I love PVP; player created politics at a depth that you just will not find on PVE servers.
If you're busy fighting mobs while another player runs past you to grab the chest just take him out after you're done. This lone action could go as far as a huge rivalry that could topple a well established guild.
Though for true PVP to work you need risk and gain. I don't consider WOW's PVP servers a real PVP experience because you don't really lose anything if you die. There needs to be an incentive for someone not to keep running back after he dies to annoy you.
Soon Hui Vchai @ Jun 15th 2006 6:26PM
They should create policemen-like characters in games and let responsible players be policement. Some people get off on that stuff and they can be pretty effective (as long as they dont just powertrip with complete unfairness).
Of course, its going to make mmos suck, but maybe less than now. Maybe not.