Not enough room for both voice tracks eh? then give me english subs. The people who will be buying this game would prefer that. SEGA isn't going to get people not interested in it to buy by having "that guy from resivor dogs, and that chick from batman" in it.

"Not enough room for both voice tracks eh?"

Thankfully that wont be a problem on Blu-ray.
But we can manage without it can't we?

I agree. I'm not interested in it, and knowing Mark Hamill is doing work on it doesn't sway me to buy it. Neither does any of those other C-list celebrities.

Of course, I like Mark Hamill... The others... Not so much.

> We were hoping to include the Japanese dialogue
> as an alternate track, but unfortunately there
> just wasn't enough room on a single disc to put
> both sets of voice files

That is truly unfortunate, all the cool yakuza slang with their unique intonations and the way to speak is gone then. Just because there is not enough space in DVD. Is not it lame?

But nevertheless we at Joystiq still firmly believe that PS3 does not need Blue Ray drive because there is no way in hell there will be games in the future that would need 25GB disk space.

If video games really want to be taken seriously, publishers are going to have to realize that dubbing a video game is really no different than dubbing a film. Would *any* movie studio these days release a DVD that *only* contained a dub track of a foreign film? They'd be laughed out of the industry. You have three choices:

a) Release the sub *and* dub
b) Release the sub *only*
c) Don't release anything

This is such a culturally-specific game, dubbing it to begin with in English is pretty freakin' ridiculous. But hey, if Sega thinks they'll increase their audience by doing so, whatever. I mean I don't bitch and moan when Disney dubs my Miyazaki films, because they *also* release the subs. As long as I can see the original and read a proper translation (rather than one that's been shoehorned in to fit the existing animation), I'm happy.

But video game companies apparently haven't learned this, and continue to act as if all gamers care about is blasting caps in their enemies. Don't insult my intelligence, Sega. I want original dialogue or I want nothing. You might get your money from me, but it'll be for the import - not your neutered domestic release of this title.

I played this one for an hour at E3. It is crazy fun. Lots of cool combos and interactive environments. It's like a 3D "Streets of Rage" on crack.

I do agree that subtitles would be more authentic. but it shouldn't take away from the game at all. I highly recommend this title for the gameplay alone.

Michael Rosenbaum is actually a pretty good voice over artist. He's done the voice for Flash on the Jusitce League series, and he's done an awesome job with it!

This is an issue I discussed on another video game site yesterday, and was rather surprised by all the individuals who seemed to be of the mindset that this would not tarnish the believablity of the title due to the big names attached to the American characters. (Somehow, these individuals also presupposed that the quality of the VAs would be of a high quality because of these names... not necessarily true, or wise)

I would have been appeased with English subs, quite honestly, in a situation akin to this where the tone and environment of the game is OVERWHELMINGLY asian. As much as it will inevitably be suggested, the situtation between this game and the vast majority of other localized games is NOT the same - those games, while born in Japan, do not often explicitly take place in Asian settings nor do they focus upon any specific race or culture in a meaningful manner. Yakuza does. Shenmue did. Jade Empire did.

I'm still excited about this game, and poor voice acting rarely dissuades me from purchasing a title if the other elements are quite polished, but this feels like a bad call on Sega's behalf.

(And what's with that disc space... should I go ahead and assume that they didn't even try a dual-layer disc? Nah, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.)

that guy in that picture looks really messed up. His upper body is like 3x as wide as his waste. He looks like chunky kong from Donkey kong 64 lol.

I cant see it taking up 9 gigs, but 4.7? yeah. I think they are going cheap by not wanting to go up to a dual layer DVD just because of audio tracks, what a shame, seeing as I took japanese for my language in HS and colledge. Not many games use the 9 gbs anyway (well, last gen games, that is, only one I think I know of would be GTA SA)

I found the size of Ryu ga Gotoku and it is not a DVD9. Many PS2 have
problems reading DVD9 and I sure that the reason most PS2 games are
not dual layered.

@Jeff, I have seen many good arguments
about video game dubs but your analogy is just silly. I don't want
to even start with explaining the difference between dub tracks on
live action film vs. dub tracks on games.

The thing that irks me the most about dubbing a game like this is that not only did they dub the game, but they dubbed it with American people who don't sound Asian at all. It's one thing to hear a dub of an Asian game with people who at least sound a bit Asian, but it's a complete other thing to dub Asian people with such actors as Mark Hamill. Might as well get Snoop Dogg for the main character.

Mark Hamill has an AMAZING voice range. he did incredible stuff for Lucasarts Adventure Games.

that said, the American voices for Japanese folk is a little bothersome. as is the contention that there isn't "enough room" for both, which we know is utter bullshit. compress the Japanese track to a foresaken place, since only about 8% of the buyers will actually care about it, anyway. Although I don't mind subtitles at all, most mainstreamers seem to hate them in my experience.

So what, you want them all to sound like fobs?

That would just piss me off.

It's a letdown that they're dubbing it; it's going to take longer to be released and the English voices might be quite detrimental to the overall feel of the game. Most of the people who want this game want the original yakuza Japanese w/subtitles rather than stereotypical gangster Bostonian/Itallian/New Yorker-accented English voices, and for good reason.

Also, Sega doesn't exactly have a great record as far as localization goes (http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/764/764502/vids_1.html -Kazuma: "You like it?" Woman: "Very!" :-/ even though it's an early version, it's still not a good sign), so my worring is almost overriding my excitement for this game right now. I guess all we can hope for now is that the acting is decent...

I have to agree 100%. From Dragon Quest 8 getting "Americanized" and the Tales games getting some of the worst voicework ever, and then a game with the name "Suikoden" having it's voiceovers changed to english... LOCALIZATION is quickly becoming a terrible terrible word for me, and I'm steering far clear of it lately. Not a penny will be spent on this by me without the original japanese voicework.

BTW Sega (like they're reading...), how much does it cost to produce a DVD? Why not make it a 2-disc game, or better yet, give us 2 versions, we could lend the crappy english one (no offence at all to Michael Madson, he kicks ass) to our friends who don't know any better.

(As you can see, I'm totally bitter about this lately...)

Yay, it's Chris Grant's 100th post on Joystiq!

Party!

1. When will the hardcore realize that the world does not revolve around them?

2. It would cost them only a few bucks more to release a 2-disc set, but they don't care.

3. Oblivion fit on one disc.

4. OBLIVION FIT ON ONE DISC!

Man, people who worship the Japanese language really bug me. :/

"unfortunately there just wasn't enough room on a single disc to put both sets of voice files."

More like Sega of America isn't gonna pony up the cash for a bunch of C-list celebs just to have American gamers opt for Japanese dialogue and subtitles. This is how the suits on this side of the Pacific excercise their power--by initiating localization efforts that insult the inteligence of their gaming audience. And this has nothing to do with being a 'nihongo-phile', but everything to do with this being a game about the Yakuza. I know Americans like their etertainment good and homogenized, but Mark Hammill and Michael Madsen probably aren't the best voices for Japanese organized crime. But then again, as long as the experience is visceral enough, few gamers will care about how genuine it is.

Sega can save their trust from fans of the game by releasing two versions (like stated earlyer)... one regular edition in dub and one other edition (maybe limited???) in sub.

Sega has really screwed up this time IMHO. I hope they at least take notice that alot of people aren't happy.

#20, the problem here is not with Japanophile. What we want is authenticity. Like when watching a German movie you want to hear German. And to me it just seem odd for a Yakuza to speak English. I bet it would be the same disappoinment to see Don Corleone not speaking in his native language.

#12

Not a valid excuse. Dual layer support has been a requirement of all equipment displaying the DVD logo since day 1.

The fact is that a dual layer DVD costs a little bit more in production fees and Sega isn't expecting such a big audience for this game that they can justify the added cost. The bulk of the US audience who'll see this as a Japanese-flavored GTA are going to want dialogue in English.

If this was shaping up to be a huge seller Sega could pull out all the stops and go deluxe on all aspects. But that isn't the case. Sega isn't in that business anymore it seems. Has any Sega property done more business this generation than the Monkey Ball franchise? Or even just more sales than the GameCube version of Super Monkey Ball, which had the benefit of exclusivity for a while. Perhaps the Sonic Advance series come closest or better.

Without expecting to clear well over a million units it's just hard to justify catering to anyone but the most mainstream audience, and that means English dialogue on the lowest cost media.

Okay, at least they learned something from Shenmue. If you grab the nearest anime dub pros and fly them to Japan to do recording, they can still suck. Especially if your lead actor (i.e.: Corey Marshall) only has two shows on his resume.

And no matter how much we all say the sub would be better, the sad fact is that the dub is more marketable, starpower or not. I'm optimistic about the starpower they got, however. Michael Madsen, in the Gamespot interview, was picked out of the list by Sega of Japan. Rachael Leigh Cook is Tifa, nuff said. Michael Rosenbaum is also a very talented actor, and Mark Hamill is an experienced VA.

The problem with a dub is, well, why have voice acting at all if you can't understand it?

Pound to a penny they're not using dual-layer DVDs. If they did, the Japanese track would easily fit, and the extra manufacture costs would be near-as-dammit non-existent.
I'm making the assumption of course that the PS2 can run games on dual layer DVD discs... but still. Come on, Sega.

am i the only one who stopped being upset about lack of a japanese language track the moment i read the name "michael madsen" ?

There should be enough room to have alternate language tracks on an existing DVD. I'm guessing they're probably not using dual layer or compression.

As far as the voice talent, all have done a decent job in the past with voice acting, television, or movies. I'd much rather have an established actor doing the voices, than have lousy voice work.

Michael Madsen is always solid, and Mark Hamill has done everything from Batman to Wing Commander (VG).

If anything, I'd blame GTA for this...This is who SEGA is aiming this game at, so, if at all, they don't care about the film buffs(The people who want the original language track for foreign movies brought to US theaters re-dub).

Why, if they're so determined to appeal to the greatest audience, didn't they just hire native Japanese to provide English dialogue for the characters? There'd be no need for subs, the authenticity that Sega are trying to sell the game with, would be intact.

This thing ought to come with a disclaimer, or Sega just drop the pretense; because if SEGA ITSELF hasn't got sufficient belief in the integrity and quality of its game anymore, then I don't see why anyone else should have, either.

@epobirs I know all PS2 *Should be able to play DVD9 but after I bought God of War I couldn't get it to play on my PS2. I had my friend try it on his PS2, a no go. Finally I took it over to my brothers house and got to work on his PS2.

I bought a new PS2 just to play GoW. I also called Sony after I found out that the game was not defective the customer service representative told me that "some PS2 have problems reading DVD9 games."

Sega ain't been the same company since Dreamcast. I remember the days I use to admire them for expertise in providing new and innovative games. Now that they have turned third party they have a severe lack of focus. The Sonic Adventure series is a joke. Shadow the Hedgehog is lame. Sonic Riders? Come on Sonic runs the speed of sound and he needs an air board? Lame. Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush have been great titles but Super Monkey Ball is starting to suck balls. Full Auto sucked. The upcoming PSO Universe shows nothing to make me want to purchase it other than for the simple fact of Dreamcast nostalgia: It looks so much visually like a DC game it's shameful. I mean really, what has Sega been doing? Go to there website. Almost every title is either Sonic or Super Monkey Ball. Its a sad time for Sega these days.

What happened to Shenmue, Space Channel 5, Virtua Cop, Fighting Vipers, Astal, Panzer Dragoon, a real Sonic & Tails & Knuckles game, Vectorman, Ristar, Shining Force, Jet Grind Radio, Burning Rangers, Nights, Outrun ,Space Harrier? With all of these great franchises is Sega only content with making only Sonic and Super Monkey Ball games?

And for the record Yazuka ain't going to sale 200 copies in the states unless it has a free demo of Sonic ,Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Big, E102 (whatever), Eggman, Cream, Blaze the Cat, Rogue, and furry friends Adventure Extreme.

@ 20.

Yeah man but just in certain games as you said, because in games like Metal Gear Solid i would hate it in Japanese, i wanna hear David Hayter.

“Yakuza was an immense hit in Japan, and in bringing the game to the U.S. market, we wanted to ensure that the subtle nuances of the game were brought to life,” said Scott A. Steinberg, vice president of marketing, Sega of America."

I just read that over at Gamasutra...You're kidding me, right, Scott! Isn't the audio likely to be integral to conveying those "subtle nuances" then, in your opinion?!

I don't think the majority of you guys are aware of just how talented Mark Hamill is at voice acting? He's done some quality stuff from the Batman cartoon series to Lucas Arts games...hell, they almost ditched Frank Oz since Mark did such a good Yoda in TESB :)

Call me what you will, but I prefer my games in English :/

you can find great Sheakspean actors such as the guy from Lor of the Rings, performing world class voice acting, and it still wouldnt be right.

Because Yakuza dont speak english!!!

Most ppl consider the French's localization of films stupid, heck, some ppl even feel offended when their beloved films being dub into French. NOw, tell me why da hell is it OK to turn Japanese into english?huh?
Especially since this game created a hyper realism of underground Japan, different ppl would speak different ways.


and these "Batman cartoon series to Lucas Arts games" arent "quality stuffs" , they sound like crap.
And i will call you a lot of things, but i m not posting them here.

It's funny how ppl say it's useless to get into Blue-Ray for games b/c it will never need 25gb. But if those ppl actually use their brains and put together all the formats that video games have been implemented on, it would make sense to use Blue-Ray for future use.

Why do we need to use a DVD (4.7gb) for games when we use to use normal CDs (700mb); heck we use to us cartridges that hold at most 128mb. So let's use our brains again and think why would we need Blue-Ray and why we bothered using DVDs when we can easily use cartridges.

LongshotX ,Jamesology ,

Amen!

#31

That doesn't change the fact that Sony itself was perfectly happy to release that game and several others like GT4 on DVD-9. Square has also used DVD-9, although it was sometimes just as a copy protection technique against hard drive loader apps. Square has confidence in being able to sell big numbers of certain franchises, so the additional pennies for a DVD-9 doesn't bother them. For a publisher who has little surety their game is going to make money at all, nevermind being a major hit, those pennies add up across tens of thousands of DVDs. I very greatly doubt that any publisher held off from a dual-layer discs because an unknown number of PS2 have misaligned or defective drives. The vast majority of them handle DVD-9 just fine.



The issue of Blu-ray isn't whether the greater storage will be useful. Of course it will, eventually. But that time isn't now. If it were not for the huge amount of money to be made in owning the next big video delivery format Sony would not be making this a standard part of the PS3. The additional storage just isn't that important at this juncture in contrast to the cost it adds to the system.

While Microsoft has some interest in HD-DVD's success it isn't at anywhere near the level of importance Blu-ray holds for Sony. Certainly not enough to potentially harm the viability of the Xbox 360 as a mainstream console by bumping up the price substantially on top of an already demanding SRP.

As noted, the Japan version of this game isn't making full use of the existing DVD format. Sega was only limited on space so far as it didn't require any additional cost. (Adding support for selecting audio tracks and testing that would have meant yet more cost to please that small segment of the market that cares.) PS3 developers won't have that option. Their games will go on the more costly Blu-ray disc regardless of whether it exceeds the confines of a DVD-9.

Hey, as long as it's better than Shenmue..

lol, I don't wanna say it but the voice work involvement of Michael "paycheck" Madsen does little for me either. If you want camp value, buy Narc.

To those that cite a deviation from a more "pure and correct" English subtitle, please remember that the last three major films to celebrate Japanese culture and tradition have not starred Japanese casts. Fast and Furiouse: Tokyo Drift, Memoirs of a Geisha, The Last Samurai. Why would major American media suddenly sway to the whims of a silent marginalized minority?

To close, not only does Oblivion fit DVD-9, but so does PGR3 which has room to spare.

Aw, come on Sega...This was one of the few games this year that I'm pumped to drop $50 on...now I'm alot less pumped (like only willing to drop $20 on it)....No one buys a game for the voice talent...yeah, it can make a difference but Madsen didn't save Driv3r from sucking hard...Whenever I see I game hyping its voice talent, that just tells me that is must suck so hard that the marketing folks must not have anything else to hype.

The target audience for this game are used to consuming J media via subtitles and hearing Japanese...If DOA players can handle it, somehow the rest of can deal with it. Now I can understand why SEGA would want to make it appealing to the largest audience possible, but don't piss on the core audience who like our J media straight with no chaser. Why doesn't SEGA sell a special J Lang version with English subtitles direct from their website....They could pocket the retailers cut and make some of us very happy.

@42 (sev4pri) - (You call racial stereotyping "celebrating" a culture...??) The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift, Memoirs of a Geisha, The Last Samurai are different from Yakuza in that they were all DESIGNED from the ground up to appeal to an American, predominantly caucasian audience. For example, in the Fast and the Furious, the white American guy defeats the Japanese bad guys and gets the Japanese girl. Yakuza, however, is purely Japanese, and most people who want it want it in its most unadulterated form.

And as for appealing to the widest audience with English, most American GTA players will look at it and say, "Hm, a game with Asian gangsters, really long cutscenes, and loading before fights ... hey, when's the next GTA coming out?" and move on. Some will try it, but many will be turned off because its setting and themes are just not cool to many. (Note: I totally hope I'm wrong about this and it sells well!)

Yakuza in English is like a movie about the Revolutionary War in Japanese; sure, the Japanese audience will understand what's going on, but boy will it look stupid. With games set in fictional worlds, like Suikoden and Dragon Quest, you can dub it in any language at it can come out just as good or better (see Lunar: SSSC), because it's not based on a real place that we have preconceived notions of. But when it takes place in a real culture, it takes away from its intended feeling to have it in a different language.

kabe-
Your point is a good one, however the media hype leading up to each of the films I mention cited their devotion to recreating and honoring Japanese tradition. I mention these as an example of the American public/media seeking out Asian stories with no regard to actually cast or seek advice from Nihonjin or American Japanese.

Either way we are arguing the same point. You want Japanese language in your games set in Japan. I'd like to see Japanese actors and crew in movies supposedly celebrating Japanese culture.

My friends who claim to be big anime fans generally moan and complain when I try to watch in Nihongo. Yet they've introduced me to some of the best Sushi bars. Despite their personal celabration of Japanese culture for whatever reason they'd rather hear their films in English.

LMAO @ 31

"The issue of Blu-ray isn't whether the greater storage will be useful. Of course it will, eventually. But that time isn't now."

Tell us Oh wise one, when is the perfect time for Blue Ray to be introduced? Oh Please tell us! HAHHAHAHAHAHA! Hey remember when cellphones was first introduced affordable for everyone to get. Critics all said that cellphones were "evil" then a month later everyone had one. HAHAHAHAHA. It's also funny how ppl say it not the right time to introduce new technology. Just to let you know, THERE IS NO RIGHT TIME! It's basically trail and error. If the crowd likes it or not. You can't time things like this. Sony is taking a step forward with their new format just like Nintendo took a step forward with their "Wiimote."

"There's no time like the present."

Am I the only one who'll point out that Rachel Leigh Cook has been getting into the VO biz in the past couple of years playing Tifa on both FFVII:AC and Kingdom Hearts 2?

That aside, I still prefer to watch AC in Japanese with English sub, and KH2 you don't have a choice...

But damn I love Rachel Leigh Cook.

Sega says:

1. Learn Japanese.
2. Import it.
3. Shut up while we try to make a little money on the side with this game that was never really meant for you in the first place but we needed something on the shelves for the fall.

I completely agree with Jeff #6 and #32 and others that wish the game kept its original dialog. I probably won't even buy it now for the same reaosn I can't watch dubbed movies. I just think it's common sense to keep the Japanese VO when the characters are Japanese in Japan. Man, I had to turn off the VO in Shenmue after awhile too!