Red Steel developer's blog goes live

by Ross Miller { Jun 30th 2006 at 12:59AM }

While a little late in its development cycle, the team behind Red Steel opened a blog yesterday to discuss the game's progress as it reaches its final stages. The first topic: the much-discussed control scheme.

Producer Marie-Sol Beaudry wants players to have fun and not "force people to become actual professional swordsmen" (it's good thing, too -- professional swordsmen make very little money these days). The matter of synchronization between the Wiimote and sword animation apparently proved tricky. Beaudry promises that the final sword-fighting will be more diverse and feature a couple of undisclosed special moves.

One of the early comments suggested an option for players to have the option of switching between scripted moves and freestyle animation. It is a great idea, but we get the impression Ubisoft is not prepared to go in that direction for this title. Maybe another game, from a galaxy far, far away, can quench our thirst. O, to dream ...

Tags: guns, nintendo revolution, samurai, ubisoft france, ubisoft montreal, wiimote

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Dan @ Jun 30th 2006 1:46AM

This game has a lot of potential. Just don't screw it up, Ubisoft.

Eric @ Jun 30th 2006 2:04AM

Honestly, how did the developers think people would react to a sword-fighting game on the Wii doesn't actually use the wiimote to control the sword? That just seems like simple common sense to me.

Who would want to play a racing game where instead of steering, you pressed a 'steer' button?

cringer8 @ Jun 30th 2006 3:05AM

@eric

I'm sure they, too, dreamed of creating a game with freestyle swordplay. Unfortunately, it's impossible to pull off. Well, maybe not impossible, but too difficult to do right now. The AI necessary to control the enemy would be WAY too advanced. Too many angles/depths/distances/forces to react to.

Canned animation is the best we can do for now. Hopefully, you will be able to string the animations into smooth, fast combos. The E3 version had slow response time (laggy) and sketchy accelerometer recognition.

We'll see.

*Side Note: I can't believe August is almost here. These consoles are almost here.
Our Wii's are coming with anticipation. (stick that in your pun pipe and smoke it)

Rafi @ Jun 30th 2006 3:16AM

Bah, who cares. I can wait a while for a good, real-time dynamics game. In the meantime, however, I WILL have my Zelda, and my Mario, and my Samus, and my Sonic, and my...uh...Excite...truck...

Plus, who couldn't get excited over Monkeys in Balls! But yeah, if we can't have awesome sword fighting, we'll still have dynamic shooters...with a WiiMote!

Furniture @ Jun 30th 2006 3:44AM

Sweet that sounds option. I hope you guys will make it like an option for controls to either have it as scripted moves so people that don't want to become sword masters can do that. But for the ones that want free sword movement have that option also. That would be sweet.

Can't wait for the next update. So pschyed about this game.

Chronogears @ Jun 30th 2006 3:56AM

"Our Wii's are coming with anticipation." In case anyone missed it the first time.

Hearing about all these possible control schemes gets me really excited... but I, like Ubi evidently, sadly have not been able to come up with a method of control with the Wiimote that is as intuitive as I would like. The best I can come up with is to use Z1 or Z2 on the nunchaku as a "strafe" button, allowing the analog stick to handle all movement, leaving the Wiimote itself to be used strictly for full-screen aiming.

THERE MUST BE A WAY. SCIENCE WILL PREVAIL.

Keith L. Dick @ Jun 30th 2006 3:57AM

Thank the Powers that be I just do not have a "Bottomless Bank Account"...

I could if it were possible spend every last penny I have and my childrens for generations to come on games that would just never satisfy...

Go Figure...

Xizer @ Jun 30th 2006 4:30AM

It seems like Red Steel just gets more disappointing every day.

Jay @ Jun 30th 2006 6:16AM

Seems like Red Steel is getting better everyday! what with the dismal E3 appearence, they're trying to make it better. so I don't get fully dynamic sword fighting? that was obvious from the trailer (notice the gun has handshake, the sword does not). I'm not too unhappy. I think it looks great and has a fantastic art direction that only the French could get across with any sense of style.

I look forward.

the_game_master @ Jun 30th 2006 6:48AM

I dont see the bad news in this story. The developers are working to improve the gameplay of using Wii controller and that sword fight.

MegaMatt @ Jun 30th 2006 7:52AM

Someone said something about A.I. ( I just skimmed over this) and even though that might be true (idk if it is) they maybe should still have a multiplayer wi-fi part. Imagine how cool it would be to have an arena with just tons of people running around and sword fighting with real 1 to 1 motion ( I think that's what its called)

striderhayasa @ Jun 30th 2006 7:56AM

I agree Jay,

When the screens came out for Red Steel pre e3, people right here on joystiq said "that's not the game, those look too good to be in game. Those are mock up shots" When e3 came and people played Red Steel and saw that the released shots were accurate then you heard some of those same people say "Red Steel looks like crap"

Whatever, so people are never satisfied,

I personally, have hopes for Red Steel. After what UBI soft did with Prince of Persia (which I used to play on the Amiga in glorious 2D) and then kicking Hideo Kojima in the nuts with Splinter Cell (remember when Metal Gear Solid 2 was supposed to be the last Metal Gear, until Splinter Cell dropped) I believe Red Steel is going to be awesome. It's good to hear that they listen to fan reactions from e3 and are working to improve the game. Only a troll would see this as a bad thing.

idioteraser @ Jun 30th 2006 7:56AM

AI isn't the real problem. It's that most people if they were to try to swordfight would think it would be like what they have seen in movies and tv shows. The result would be that they would have their butt handed to them. Real swordfighting in no way resembles what you have seen in 99% of tv shows or movies.

Having the option to do it is nice for those that can learn how to actually use the sword fighting but for those who think swordfighting is like the movies or tv canned animations are just right for you.

GlitchCog @ Jun 30th 2006 8:16AM

idioteraser,

But we want to do that cool-looking Hollywood sword fighting. Video games don't have to be realistic to the point that wild cool-looking sword swings and stabs don't work.

There needs to be video games where they reward cool-ass movie sword fighting styles, even though in the real world an actual swordsman would just do a little perry thrust thingy that didn't look impressive but was effective.

I'm not interested in a Wii sword fighting game that uses the motion controller as a fancier button press. Not cool.

Jay @ Jun 30th 2006 8:47AM

I like how every skims over the gun part to this game. You know, sword fighting was the only complaint (as well as graphics, though I was impressed from the trailers personally) so they're making it better. The gun part just sounds more than awesome to me, to actually hold a virtual gun in a non-rail shooter scenario is just fantastic.
Give me a sniper rifle or an Uzi and the sword fighting becomes negligible.

Enycma @ Jun 30th 2006 9:24AM

Actually, the way that they are doing the sword fights, is the best way they can do it... In a programming and gameplay sort of way... I mean for the programmers, it's easier to program predetermined moves on the character, and you kind of like executing them in the game, so the game recognizes the input and makes the AI react to the situation. Because it'll be dificult to program for such an open range of movements if you let be free handed. That's were the gameplay comes in. If this freehand style combat can never be perfect because of this, we might as well end up poking the sword forward everytime or slashing all around like a nut and any sort of crazyness will come out of it. In other words, i'll end up being like a button masher wih no depth.. only that you are not smashing buttons... You just need to wave your hands around like crazy!

striderhayasa @ Jun 30th 2006 9:49AM

I think too many people are missing the point and I'm glad to see some people get it. I keep reading these "canned animation" complaints but what these genius that like to those this phrase around don't realize is that's all video games have ever done. Press a button, an animation plays out, press another button, another animation activates. by that perspective they're all "canned" regardless of what game or genre you're playing. Know wtf you're talking about before posting....for the sake of the children...please.

Now, I agree with Enycma and the others with similar statements. To offer true freestyle control would be a programming nightmare. I'm not saying it would be impossible but it would be such a daunting task with no guarantee that it would be fun. I see nothing wrong with simplifying the controls so that block, evade, parry, and a number of slashes are easily accessible. Combos could easily come into play and the gameplay is still accessible to people that aren't familar with FPS.

This nonsense about freestyle control and "I wanna be a real swordsman...for real" is total bs. Too many people knock it for lack of "realism" but then look at a game like Metal Gear where a simple barrel blocking a passage can stop Solid Snake from progressing. Snake...who can destroy Metal Gears with his bare hands, can't jump over a damn barrel? Give me a break. How is that realistic?

If UBISOFT can give me a control scheme that's easy to learn and fun to use I'm there.

The gun play looks cool and I'm looking forward to that as well but I think they should leave the option to turn off that invisible barrier that prevents the camera from turning while aiming. That I do not like and hope that it's optional in Metriod too.

Stujiro @ Jun 30th 2006 9:57AM

The biggest issue here is that you can swing the wiimote but on screen it might stop because of an enemies sword but in reality you just kept on swinging. As a result you're now out of sync with the action on screen.

My idea for a solution would be to incorporate some sort of balance or punishment for over movement. So if you moved your wiimote way out of sync with the monitor (tv, etc..) your character might stumble a bit then the game would reward you with a quick and possibly painless death. I think from a game mechanics stand point it would work pretty well.

At anyrate bring on the free motion light gun games. That will truly be an experience that only the wii can offer.

mocax @ Jun 30th 2006 10:00AM

True freestyle swordfighting in-game will make 99% of you people look like f00s getting wallop by Mr T.

Realism != Fun

sjenky @ Jun 30th 2006 10:01AM

Wait, wait, A chick is the producer ?? Awesome :D that explains alot.. heheheh

Arturis @ Jun 30th 2006 10:31AM

Well, to be technical, a "free swinging sword" game allready exists. "Die By the Sword", developed by Treyarch and released in 1998 for the PC, had you freely controlling the swing of your characters sword arm using the mouse, while you used the keyboard to move. It took into account velocity, momentum, and angle of the swing vs factors such as armor/weapon deflection. While not being the best game around by any means, it was a fun game to toy with, and successful enough to warrent an expansion, "DBTS: Limb from Limb", released later that same year.

Perhaps Treyarch may look into bringing an updated version of DBTS to the Wii? Only time will tell.

Tush @ Jun 30th 2006 10:35AM

can't believe sjenky just said that...

delerious @ Jun 30th 2006 10:49AM

I know that this is completely off topic, but wouldn't it be awesome if Lucas Arts released an attachment that fused together two WiiMotes together to make a double-bladed lightsaber? That would pwn so hard, uber configurations. Almost limitless.

TyDobbs @ Jun 30th 2006 10:56AM

No matter how clever the programmers are, it's impossible to really do true one to one motion sword fighting with the wii remote. Yes you could get one to one tracking of movement IF YOU NEVER HIT ANYTHING. The problem is what happens when your sword is blocked? In the game your sword will stop and feel resistance, in your hand there will be a rumble and you will complete your swing. There is no way to make this kind of haptic feedback happen in a free hand remote. Without actual pressure and resistance the closer they try to come to 'real' swordfighting the more frustrating it will actually become. The only thing to do is come to some gameplay compromise which is nothing like real sword fighting but close enough to be satisfying and immersive ala guitar hero. This sounds like what they are trying to do with the preset slash and the block nunchuk shake. I agree with cringer, if they can incorporate more complicated and satisfying combinations for cool looking moves the action should be fast enough and addictive enough that you don't care whether it feels like a 'real' swordfight just like you don't care that you aren't really playing the guitar in guitar hero.

Tony @ Jun 30th 2006 11:06AM

The developers actually have directly answered this question before, so I don't know why people keep pressing it. The idea was something to the effect of the idea that most people simply have no idea how to sword fight and giving them free reign with the remote proved to be even more difficult and clunky because of it.

JCA @ Jun 30th 2006 12:11PM

@ striderhayasa

You make valid points about how almost all video gaming has involved mostly canned, predetermined movements. I agree. What we need to do is see what Nintendo themselves can do with the controller. They haven't flat out promised a limitless range of motion but no doubt have implied it. Simply by calling it a new way to play games is proof of that. When they say stuff like that it implies the ability to step beyond canned animation and predetermined motion.

I know they just wanna sell hardware, but with the hype they are creating, can't you see why people are a little disappointed in Red Steel? Nintendo's hype is causing the average gamer's mind to go crazy and dream of all the cool shit we should be able to do with the Wiimote. Which is exactly what Nintendo wants. Its no wonder people were panning Red Steel after its E3 showing.

So lets just wait....if Nintendo themselves can create control schemes which utilize canned as well as user-improvised motion then Red Steel will just be a case where the developer was lazy....or they didn't have the know-how in order to unrestrict some of the controls. If Nintendo cannot deliver,however, the Wii will flop. I for one hope that doesn't happen.

saidnamyzO @ Jun 30th 2006 1:18PM

vidGuy @ Jun 30th 2006 1:30PM

As long as there are more than 8 animations (left to right, up to down, right to left, down to up, diagonals), I'll be happy. It will be new control and a lot more intuitive even without the 1-to-1 motion. After all, how intuitive is pressing buttons or moving a small analog stick when you are controlling a sword?

My only concern is how accurate the Wii remote will be. If I swing in a direct horizontal plane, it'll register as left to right/right to left. But what if I'm off a little... will it then turn into a diagonal slash when I don't want it to? How the game developer programs the accuracy could make all the difference, because you can't REQUIRE it to be so accurate, either.

I agree that Nintendo will, for most scenarios, be the one to release games that 'show' other developers how to use the Wii remote successfully. But once that initial hurder is cleared, I bet most games use the remote intelligently, making games more intuitive and fun. And isn't that what it's all about?

molecule @ Jun 30th 2006 1:39PM

striderhayasa 16. says:

"I think they should leave the option to turn off that invisible barrier that prevents the camera from turning while aiming. That I do not like and hope that it's optional in Metriod too."

found at http://wii.gamezone.com/gzreviews/p29663.htm

-Samus’s turning radius is excellent and depends solely on how fast you move the remote (just like a mouse).
-The MP3 demo had two settings: normal and expert, the latter of which offers a greater level of sensitivity to the player. You can turn the remote a very slight amount to change the location of the crosshairs, as well as the camera view.

Enjoy :)

idioteraser @ Jun 30th 2006 4:00PM

Yeah somehow a lot of the complainers about the turning in metroid prime 3 missed that there was an expert mode. None of the complainers ever stated that there were two distinct settings.

Normal for those not used to fps and easily susceptible to vertigo expert for those who are used to fps controls.

striderhayasa @ Jun 30th 2006 6:42PM

@ vidguy

true true...I agree with you 100 percent. forgive the typos though. But you have to remember, on every Nintendo console since the NES, Nintendo has always been the trend setter. When companies say the 64 controller for the first time and said "HTF do we use that?" Nintendo showed off Mario 64. How about Mode 7, scaling and rotation? F-zero, Mario KArt and Pilot Wings. The SFX chip is an exception because Agronaut (jeez I just mangled their name)developed the first star fox but Nintendo published it. But look at the DS. Many of the games that have shined on that portable have been Nintendo games because many companies have taken a wait and see attitude. We're just seeing what third parties can do with the DS hardware with Tony Hawk (thank goodness for Vicarious Visions) Meteos, Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Contact and the like.

My point is I believe that UBI deserves some credit because they saw the potential in the Wii to actually put their money where their mouth is. Talk is cheap and sometimes, only the forerunners get the spoils.
UBI could have just as easily gone the safer route and made Red Steel for the PS3. I doubt it would have made any impact at all except it would be pretty to look at but gameplay-wise I suspect it would be more "meh" than anything else because of the standard controller.

Ultimately no one develops better on Nintendo hardware than Nintendo. It's always been that way. When you look at games that have pushed Nintendo hardware and produced amazing things, it's usually Nintendo or a second party to Nintendo, then there's everyone else.

It's an exciting time to be a gamer because the Wii makes everything uncertain. It could flop and be a huge stain in this era like the Virutal Boy was years ago or it could be a huge hit that will help define the future generation. But one thing is certain another "me-too" console would have been the absolute worse for the industry. No imagination, no new ground, no new concepts...just the same as the last gen with better graphics...

striderhayasa @ Jun 30th 2006 6:55PM

@ molecule

Thanks for the info dude, I've was knee deep in e3 coverage and no site I visited mentioned that at all. I guess that's probably why Dan Hsu over at 1up was in love with Metroid at E3. I wonder why IGN totally missed it? I never read that there. This puts my mind at ease a bit. I hope the Red Steel team take notes on that. Thanks again.

@ idioteraser

I really don't think a lot of sites posted the two different control schemes for Metroid. I've been through 1up, IGN, Joystiq, engadget, gamasutra, Nintendojo, punchjump, kotaku, the-magicbox and gameinformer and I don't remember seeing it anywhere. I don't know, maybe I just totally missed it but it's good to hear regardless.