Superman needs no health bar [update 1]
The Superman franchise has some bad luck on the gaming market, and not just Superman 64, considered by many to be one of the worst games ever made. After taking a look at 1UP's feature chronicling the worst Superman video games, one thing was made abundantly clear: developers don't like to make Superman ... well ... super.Every Superman title shown had the Man of Steel burdened by a health bar, fighting to protect himself against countless thugs and hackneyed plots. The hackneyed plots are fine, but Superman has only one weakness, and it is not a punch to the face. Developers put too much emphasis on a health bar, prevalent in almost every game now (even Mario gained a health bar when he went 3D).
Let's make one thing abundantly clear: Superman needs no health bar. He's Superman.
That's not to say a Superman title should be a walk in the park; far from it. Note the recently-released movie, Superman Returns. Our cape-loving superhero is invincible for at least 135 minutes of the film, yet the film still has suspense. Why? Because Superman must save others, and that would be a great start for a Superman game -- no more "defend yourself" scenarios, but save as many people during a natural disaster as possible. If developers want a health bar, make it the current population of whatever location you happen to be saving. In this regard, a Superman game could be an intense, real-time puzzle, jumping from disaster to disaster, making split-second decisions, in order to save as many lives as possible.
Of course, there would be times when Superman would be up against a worthy foe -- he is allergic to Kryptonite, after all -- and in those cases a health bar is appropriate. But those fights do not have to be often. Shadow of the Colossus is a game with very few action sequences, yet each one made an impact because of the care developers took to making a boss sequences lively.
I am not a Superman connoisseur, but even so, I know the Man of Steel should never be taken down by a lowly thug. And that's the first rule by which every game designer should abide when contemplating a Superman game.
[Thanks for the 1UP feature, Erik Begley]
[update 1: As a few of you have pointed out, the Superman Returns video game, not yet released, does set itself apart from its predecessors by requiring more epic missions and putting the emphasis on Metropolis' safety instead of Superman's. However, the information on the title is still minimal and we will know more at a later date. Conceptually, it sounds promising, but the execution is not guaranteed.]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
superbagman @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:04PM
I am in NO WAY defending Superman 64, it was an atrocity, but I think I recall the reason Supes could die in that game was something to do with Metropolis having some kryptonite fog or something like that. Basically it was a sloppy way to explain the terrible fog and draw distance.
Marc @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:04PM
Yeah that's been someting I've wondered about for some time.
I mean really, why would superman ever need a health bar in a situation were he's not near that glowing green rock that has a song named after it.
jps @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:09PM
I thought that's exactly what the next version of the game was going to have: a total emphasis on saving Metropolis from destruction with no actual healthbar for the man in blue.
Superman's biggest weakness after Kryptonite (and the video linked from that 1up article showcases this, showing Superman having to redirect a missle launched by a 100 story tall robot) is the fact that everyone AROUND the man of steel are anything but invulnerable.
obo @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:09PM
"save as many people during a natural disaster as possible" with a giant katamari!
GSI @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:11PM
Maybe I'm thinking of something else but I could have sworn I read a while back that the new Superman Returns game didn't give him a health bar. It was instead given to who/whatever he was trying to save. But then again I could be wrong b/c the game was made by EA.
Gorky @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:13PM
This is an issue that has long bothered me about all superhero games. I was always upset that Spider-Man and The Incredible Hulk would have trouble fighting street thugs. The health bar trend for superheroes definitely needs to change.
Spencer @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:17PM
i remember reading a while ago an article in i think ign.com saying that the superman returns game would have no health bar and you would automatically be equipped with all of superman's abilities (flight, laser vision, x-ray vision) and the game would substitute the death "penalty" with how quickly you attend the urgencies around metropolis
Rabish12 @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:21PM
#4: You're right. I'd read that they're actually doing what's suggested here, making Superman invincible and causing the player to lose when the city takes too much damage instead, or something along those lines. I don't remember where I read that, but I'm absolutely certain that I did.
idioteraser @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:23PM
Well Spiderman can be killed by regular old bullets and in the comics he can be beaten up like any old human being.
It's only the spidersense that really saves him and even that can fail or be iffy.
Charli3 @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:37PM
True.
That has been my biggest complaint with every Superman title i've played. If he's Superman why do you need a lifemeter unless kryponite is around. Maybe an energy meter where he gets tired and need to rest a bit but only if you are doing a lot of heavy lifting or long, long distance flying.
And he should be able to recoupe his energy quickly after resting for a bit. Before everybody starts flaming, let me make it clear; the energy bar should not be connected to Superman living or dying.
Kevin Parrott @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:51PM
In the comics, Superman is vulnerable to Magic, as well.
Mark 2000 @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:52PM
I believe supes needs a health bar. I take the Paul Dini, Bruce Timm approach. A tank shell can slow him down. A large bomb can hurt him. Atomics or alien weaponery could kill him.
OmegaX @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:52PM
In reply to 8
What's that have to do with /Super/man? AKA: The Man of Steel, not the arachnid-themed guy.
embassy @ Jul 3rd 2006 5:57PM
and this is why superman is one of the most shallow characters ever conceived...
and the new movie just reiterates that...superman can now
1. get shot not only in the face...but directly in the eye
2. breathe in space...which..is a vacuum.i thought they had gotten rid of that nonsense
3.keep his manly cowlicked hair-do pristine, greased up , and conditioned to perfection in even the most extreme of circumstances ( including exploding 747's and space shuttles)..same attrivutes apply to his costume as well..which..most presumably made out of his own indestrucatble DNA...
Ironcates @ Jul 3rd 2006 6:03PM
Superman's biggest weakness is that he can't save everyone and it tears him up emotionally. I think a game could be based on that. Not saving the people in the time limit is a standard way (and no flying around the earth to make time and the planet go in reverse).
Also, to add to magic... red sunlight will cause him to lose his powers and become a mere mortal.
Tony @ Jul 3rd 2006 6:22PM
This would make sense if the only halfway legitimate attempt to really kill Superman didn't involve kryptonite at all.
He's not invincible. He's super. There's a big difference between those. I certainly won't argue that he's substantially weakened to fit into video game "logic".
Avinash_Tyagi @ Jul 3rd 2006 6:24PM
Batman's kicked his butt over and over
Jonathan @ Jul 3rd 2006 6:31PM
"Superman's biggest weakness is that he can't save everyone and it tears him up emotionally. "
This made me laugh so hard and I'm not sure why.
djpuddle @ Jul 3rd 2006 6:33PM
Batman keeps Kryptonite on his utility belt.
embassy @ Jul 3rd 2006 6:48PM
yeh bats keeps some kryp on him...but i think batman describes his dichotomy with superman perfectly
" i know how he thinks. Even more than the kryptonite hes got one big weakness.deep down , clarks essentially a good person, and deep down...im not" ...
i think thats wat it comes down to more-so than the kryptonite...bats will beat supermans ass if his has to without hesitation...while superman on the other hand..will almost always show restraint...especially regarding his "friends" and fellow heros...
SonicRift @ Jul 3rd 2006 6:51PM
Superman should have a life meter of some kind, but if he's fighting thugs or robots, there is no way they can hurt him, so it would be redundant. Also redundant, if he dies, he'll only come back later.
If Superman got hit by a nuke, that would hurt. Shrivelled him up good in Dark Night.
If he's fighting Bizarro, who is in the print ad, I would think he could take some damage. If Bizarro takes damage, Superman should take damage too.
Getting slapped by giant Metallo should send him spinning. I suppose if they gave him a dizzy-o-meter, it would be affected by getting hit like that.
And to #13, Superman is protected by an ultra thin energy barrier. This is why his skin is impenetrable and he can be shot in the eye. To fly in space, he must hold his breath. He's got some mighty strong lungs, which are also what give him that ice/wind breath. The same energy barrier protects him from having that air sucked out of him by the vaccuum of space. It also protects the cowlick.
You may see images of Superman with a pristine blue costume and a tattered red cape. The energy barrier protects his costume as it is tight to the skin. The cape is not so fortunate.
jebus @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:00PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't superman killed by Doomsday from repeated punches, no kryptonite involved?
embassy @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:03PM
ive never heard of this "layer" ...didnt know superman had a " supersaiyan" aura lol...
Ramza24 @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:08PM
Doomsday was a kryptionian monster, correct if I'm wrong. So I guess kryptonians can kill other kryptonians.
I think Game Overs in a Superman game should either come from some sort of kryptonite-based weaponry or if Superman fails in protecting something or someone.
Hamson @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:17PM
Thanks for that info! One star to SonicRift!
DCSimian @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:22PM
Yeah...where'd that layer bit come from?
Perhaps during major boss battles that involve 1) big things 2) powerful things 3) both 4) kryptonite 5) all of the above...they could give him a health bar.
Personally, if they give him some sort of prestige meter...that'd be neat. The more people he saves, etc., the meter stays up. The more he fails (or chooses not to save anyone...?), it falls and Metropolis loses faith in Supes. Once it's gone, the people's trust in him is gone...I dunno...maybe it could be GTA style where the military or something goes after him or something happens where he's force to leave Metropolis...
My 2 cents.
idioteraser @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:25PM
Also don't mental attacks say telepathic in nature hurt Superman?
I brought up Spiderman since a prior poster had complained about Spiderman in the games having a problem with thugs.
Muskie @ Jul 3rd 2006 7:37PM
The "Energy Layer" thing actually Came from the Doomsday Saga in the first place. Thing is, Superman is Quite technically a PLANT. he gets his powers through an advanced form of Photosynthesis from Sol. He's also apparrently met Morpheus on two different occasions, if I remember my Sandman lore correctly.. :P
SonicRift @ Jul 3rd 2006 8:09PM
Reading some of these posts almost make me wish that the "Superman Vs. Batman" movie had been made. Okay, that's a lie.
I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic about this game. It's from EA, so it could go either way. I think it's a really, really good sign that they delayed the game to coincide with the DVD release, rather than releasing an unfinished version last Wednesday. Superman's had a slump of very bad games in the past, but maybe 2006 is a year of bad game franchises becoming good. I'm looking at you, Tomb Raider Legend.
SonicRift @ Jul 3rd 2006 8:18PM
I just realized earlier I wrote "Dark Night", should have been "Dark Knight". Sorry for the double post.
And to #21, I think that's debatable. Did he die and come back somehow shattering some barrier paving the way to Infinite Crisis, or did he just get knocked out, all energy exhausted, needing to recharge to "come back to life"? I'm a little confused of this myself now...
Jonn @ Jul 3rd 2006 8:53PM
@ #14
So, basically, your problem is that Superman has superpowers.
SonicRift @ Jul 3rd 2006 9:32PM
Haha #30!
I suppose he'd have prefered it if Superman had no powers, wore a Kryptonian battle suit, didn't fly, was played by Nick Cage with Beyonce as Lois, and fought a Thanagarian Snare Beast in the 3rd act.
LongshotX @ Jul 3rd 2006 9:53PM
I I I I be on it all night, man I be on it (day day)
All day straight up pimp
If you want me you can find me in da
I be on dat Kryptonite!!!Straight up on that Kryponite!!!Straight up pimp you can find me in the A!!!!!
Johnny @ Jul 3rd 2006 10:29PM
I think its cuzz the developers that usually develop superman games are usually developing it for a related event. so they dont have any real interest in the project.
I think that superman does actually need a health bar, HOWEVER....
it should be somthing that only appears in the precence of a krytonite enabled user or environment on harder areas of the game.
It was gampley elements like that that made the first Prince of persia game a hit with me.
throughout 90% of the game I had control of time, and I admit while the game was no less fun, it did become somthing I became comfertable and somtimes even abused. in the final 10% of the game, suddenly you dont have any power over time. I think it was a slick trick by the Dev's, it forced the ending to really Challenge you, but in a fun way.
With superman I think they should let the player get very comfertable being "super" and then at key points they could take those powers away from you, and force you to use your head instead of your muscles.
Garp @ Jul 4th 2006 12:40AM
14 -
The Superman Returns movie is based, for some reason, off of the Christopher Reeve movies I and II from 1978, etc. This matters because Superman was "relaunched" in 1986 by John Byrne to have less, more "realistic" powers. He can't breathe in space, move planets, etc. In the comics that the movie is based off of, his costume was created using materials from his ship, all of which were as indestructable as he is, which is a lot. Ma Kent sewed it after Superman used heat vision to unravel it. Yeah, I know. So anyway, since this newest movie is based off of 26-year old mythos it doesn't really synch with the "modern" Superman. I can't explain why they made that call, but I do hope it helps. This newest movie is, basically the new Superman III.
SonicRift @ Jul 4th 2006 2:22AM
33 and 34 make me wonder if we'll have the ability to spin the world backwards to reverse time... I mean, Prince of Persia started it, Full Auto has it now, it's like, the new bullet time, the latest game design fad.
Yeah... That would be a great power for Superman.
Does anyone at EA read this blog? I hope not...
As for the movie, #34, they seem to take alot of liberties when adapting comics to film, like Spider-Man's natural webs, the murder of the Punisher's entire family tree, Batman's bat-credit card and happy-go-lucky nature, or whatever the hell is going on in Smallville. They can just pick and choose what powers he gets, and which origin story to go with. I'm not really a fan of that, but I'm no big time hair-dresser-turned-producer, like Jon Peters, so clearly I don't know what I'm talking about.
So movie Superman is like his own Superman self, with his own powers abilities and his gallery of villain (note singular). Superman Returns was fun, and if it replaces Richard Pryor's computer hacking hijinx in Superman movie continuity, I'm happy.
Andru Edwards @ Jul 4th 2006 2:38AM
Here is a video preview of the new Superman game - he has no health meter, and they go into that in detail:
http://www.bleedingedgetv.com/index.php/video/article/bleeding-edge-byte-004-superman-5181134/
Philip Isles @ Jul 4th 2006 3:51AM
I totally agree with this post.
Sam @ Jul 4th 2006 4:17AM
To #35...
Things like giving Spidey natural webs and killing off the Punishers family and such are not liberties taken by movie writers. The movies are simply based off of the more modern comics which were basically re-workings of the stories. Notice that Peter Parker is also a teenager, he joins a wrestling match in the first movie and is cheated out of money, and Mary Jane is the only girl in his life and not the original chick who was killed by the Green Goblin in the original comics.
Originally(correct anything if wrong), Peter Parker started as a college student, he makes those web-slinging gauntlets, he makes a Cable TV show starring the Amazing Spider-Man which is cancelled(leading to Parker's apathy for the robbery of the TV station), and Mary Jane was not yet in the picture(he had another girlfriend who was actually killed by the Goblin).
Those are a few of the many changes which were made in the making of the new comics(the Ultimate series, I believe...). In fact, I think Superman Returns is the first comic book movie which is not based on the newer versions of the comics and rather the originals.
So, yeah, it's not the movie writers liberties, it's the CREATOR'S CHANGES. Just a little FYI.
Nicolas Redfern @ Jul 4th 2006 5:51AM
They need to use something that puts pressure on the player. This is usually a health bar. For Superman they could have timelimits.
Jonathan Wagakusei @ Jul 4th 2006 5:58AM
Jebus (#22) beat me to it: Didn't Superman, indeed, essentially get killed by physical blows from Doomsday? He's not invincible. (And as has been mentioned, he's vulnerable to mental and magical attacks as well.) The only time when Superman shines is when he's written intelligently, because he's pretty bland otherwise. That's the angle to take, in the comics, the movies, and the games.
embassy @ Jul 4th 2006 7:00AM
umm# 30 jonn
my problem is that superman has no *defined* powers..they just throw in watever sounds cool at the time...and it was cool back in the 70s to have supes breathe in space or move the planet backwards...but that stuff is just uber corny now and they need to cap off these "super" abilities...
and if supes has this " super" layer..how can people touch him..??..how can lois get close enough to him to have sex without feeling like shes humping an escalade??? superman is not GOD...he has limits beyond kryptonite..
# 34 basically summed it up tho..
i blame it on bad and/or non cohesive writing...
mocax @ Jul 4th 2006 9:25AM
Superman has a normal health bar, the only thing is, he's got an insane Armor Class and a ludicrous Saving Throw.
Nobody can bypass his AC unless they roll a 20 on a d20 and had to use bonuses in excess of +100
And when someone finally hit him for a couple of HP of dmg, he heals in no time because he has a +25HP per round Mending enchantment as long as he's exposed to sunlight.
Sven @ Jul 4th 2006 11:15AM
Okay, just to try and summarise everything (Garp kind of beat me to this):
(1) At the time when the original Superman movies were made in the 1970s, Superman's weaknesses were generally only the various types of Kryptonite*. That's where you got all the different colours (Red - Turns him evil, Gold - Permanent Power loss) from, as the writers of the comics had to come up with something to vary stories. Of course, DC's editorial controls weren't exactly stringent during a lot of Superman's history so things weren't consistent, but more or less things made sense.
The movies then adapted that era, so we have Lex as a mad scientist, Clark as a geek, Superman with near-unlimited powers (reversing time, hypnotising kisses), etc.
(2) In 1986, John Byrne revamped Superman into the version that we have in the comics now. Most significant of the revamps was taking the movies' idea that Superman wasn't Superboy and had never encountered Lex until he got to Metropolis. But at the same time, Superman got DRASTICALLY de-powered - no more tossing planets around and a lot of the more esoteric powers were eliminated. But perhaps most importantly, the "rainbow" of Kryptonite was eliminated (only green and occasionally red remained until very recently), replaced with new vulnerabilities to magic and electricity**. And as noted during Doomsday, since Superman is a solar battery, it's theoretically possible that if you simply beat the crap out of him for long enough, he'll lose his invulnerability and die.
(3) Superman: TAS continued the distillation of the post-Crisis revamps. Again, Superman can clearly be hurt by mere physical blows - Darkseid bloodies him numerous times between TAS and Justice League, for instance.
(4) Now here's the catch. Superman Returns is set in the world of the movies from the 1970s, so all of the Byrne refinements were eliminated. Superman is once more nearly completely invulnerable.
So, to sum everything up, if EA did do a game, they'd have to pretty much only use Kryptonite as a means of killing him if they wanted to be accurate. Superman 64's ability to kill him off by more conventional means was also accurate to the Superman that existed in that atrocity, since it was based on TAS. Getting killed by a random Cadmus escapee in Death & Return of Superman also made sense, since the "physical wear-down" effect was also in play for that storyline.
Phew. I really hate DCU history sometimes.
- Sven
* - That may be a bit short of the truth; I haven't read much in the way of pre-Crisis Superman.
** - That might have been a TAS innovation since he was seemingly shocked in just about every episode.
George @ Jul 4th 2006 9:51PM
Ya know, there was actually a great show on the National Geographic channel a couple of nights ago on just this topic. Well, kinda. "The Science of Superman" dealt with some of the problems that have been mentioned, like the space issue; they solve that as a logical extension of his "super breath- that is, he does not go without breathing, but instead "dives" in space, holding his breath far longer than a standard human could. (They explain his flight through several theories, as well. My favorite is some sort of internal graviton-producing organ.)
National Geographic Story- http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060622-superman-movie.html
GSI @ Jul 5th 2006 10:57PM
"The Science of Superman"? Are you kidding me?
It's called F-A-N-T-A-S-Y!
Next thing you know there will be a show on the "Science of the Lord of the Rings."