Microsoft's portable system out this year?
Though the portable "Xboy" is still speculative, Bloomberg reported yesterday that Microsoft is launching a portable music and video player by Christmas to challenge Apple's iPod. From the article: "The digital player will have a wireless Internet connection, enabling users to download music without being linked to a computer, a feature the iPod doesn't offer, according to people briefed on Redmond, Washington-based Microsoft's plans."Chris Kohler from Wired comments on the seemingly true nature of the video-music-sans-games device saying: "I find it odd that it won't play games, though; you'd think Microsoft, what with their whole department devoted to casual gaming, would at least want some basic portable time-killer type stuff in there."
Could this device be a sign of things to come from Microsoft on a portable gaming front?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
MacGeek @ Jul 6th 2006 2:09AM
Oh, microsoft allways copying apple and nintendo
Raaaaaah @ Jul 6th 2006 2:11AM
http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/16/sources-confirm-microsofts-work-on-ipod-itms-rivals/
someguy @ Jul 6th 2006 2:11AM
Isn't any laptop running Windows a microsoft portable?
makeseven @ Jul 6th 2006 2:19AM
haha, that would be AWSOME to have a new player out that will actually rival the IPOD, and one that you dont have to be linked to a computer...
...BUT i hope it isnt their portable console. i would much rather them take a while before releasing that so it is REALLY good.
ElChibo @ Jul 6th 2006 2:25AM
Just slap some XBLAnywhere in there with some simple arcade games and itl be perfect
Fischsticks @ Jul 6th 2006 2:44AM
if they throw 2 joysticks on it and it has a decent port of geo wars i will probably have to buy one on launch day
cringer8 @ Jul 6th 2006 2:53AM
Pricing. It will all come down to the price point. In order to be successful, it can't be too cheap or too expensive. I'd say $250. Any higher and I'd rather get an iPod; any lower and people won't trust its quality.
This is good news. Competition only benefits the consumer.
Nicholas @ Jul 6th 2006 3:27AM
the way i see it, i wont be buying any more Microsoft Hardware. with my 360 already broken, and seeing that past XboX's seem to die i dont think i want to touch a portable media player from them anytime soon...
Keith L. Dick @ Jul 6th 2006 3:49AM
***Microsoft's portable system out this year?***
Oh Boy, more Blue Screens for me to enjoy....
Like I don't have enough as it is...
Xelloss @ Jul 6th 2006 3:59AM
What would the point be, I mean there would be no buzz only rumor of a portable Xbox meaning lower sells and less time for people to hear about it, no games will be launched for it that we would know of. This would have to be one of the dumber rumors and make no sense to release something that wouldn't make big bucks fast.
Brian (Magus) @ Jul 6th 2006 4:44AM
I really don't think Microsoft plans on competing with Nintendo's portable line. I think that if Microsoft launches a partable game player, it will compete with Nintendo's portables as much as the DS is competing with the PSP. Nintendo's will be the portable for games, and Microsoft will have the portable media center, which also has great game-playing functionality.
Platinum_Skeet @ Jul 6th 2006 5:14AM
Guys it's just a music player. If Microsoft was going to release a portable gaming system they would've announced it at E3. Not doing so would pretty much be suicide for any new platform.
Me @ Jul 6th 2006 5:51AM
How many of you are really interrested by a wireless download feature ?
I mean we have internet at home and once you've downloaded a title you don't have to redowload it every time you want to listen.
Plus I don't know how it is where you live but here in belgium, one of the most internet equiped European countries we don't have a lot of WiFi hotSpots, and most of the time they have speed limits and downloads quotas.
So except pumping on the batteries for nothing (don't expect microsoft to include a good wifi sleep mode, everypocketPC owner should know what I mean...) I really don't see this feature as an engaging one.
elmer @ Jul 6th 2006 6:36AM
Thinking about it, I don't really see a way they can physically make a portable game system comparable in capabilities to PSP owing to storage restrictions.
A hard drive is alright for music, but downloading entire multi Gigabyte games (with either a computer in between or over a wifi link) is unacceptable on an "instant-on" device. Therefore the only alternative to provide the necassary data would be a new disk format. Seen as not even Sony could make UMD really succeed, this is highly unlikely. It would actually be more within MS's technical reach to compete directly with DS (plus movies and music), but their lack of imaginitive game design says to me that wouldn't work too well either.
For the record, I've been saying to friends for a while that the naxt ipod's bound to have wifi.
epobirs @ Jul 6th 2006 6:43AM
This machine may offer some low-end gaming, even with online pruchasing direct to the unit. But it will be a very secondary feature for the device, with less capability than a GBA. The target would be very casual use. Things like Freecell and other solitaire variants. The real portable gaming push would come later on with a machine focused on gaming first and video/audio playback second. They're really two different markets and trying to make one unit do two much would only serve to lose two markets at the same time. Efficient but not desirable.
I suspect one thing Microsoft is waiting for to make their portable plans work is the right price point for a strong gaming chipset and screen combined with a substantial hard drive and/or high capacity flash cards. Say 4GB SD for under $75. This would allow them to put emphasis on the unit as a Xbox Live participant, including online sales of games direct to the unit.
epobirs @ Jul 6th 2006 6:58AM
#13
Elmer, I think the need to keep downloads at a reasonable size would lend more drive to doing episodic content. If FMV is kept to a minimum and most non-interactive sequences using ingame engine scenes, the chapters following the first could be much smaller since they wouldn't have to replicate the engine and reused AV assets. Alternatively, the first episode could be shorter to compensate for the size of the download while following chapter get more playtime from their added material.
I suspect Microsoft would really prefer not to be involved in creating a new disc format for their portable. If nothing viable is available off the shelf they may seek to push online distribution further and/or ship games on regular DVDs with the main engine and each chapter transferred to the portable as needed.
If the machine came with a 10GB drive built-in along with one or two SD slots, that should allow users to keep a decent library on hand. following the XBLA model, plenty of content will be quite small and many of them kept onboard for variety while at the opposite end there will be the big DVD epics. A player might only keep one of those loaded at a time, since it is more likely to be the kind of game that takes several dozen hours to complete but once completed is likely to be uninstalled. The portable might have space for three or four of those loaded simultaneously but that would be the user's choice.
If Microsoft doesn't seek to go into the movie disc sales business ala UMD, they can score points by not having to protect that business form their own users. The full screen resolution would be available for WMV file playback, especially ones automatically produced by a Media Center PC. (This feature is already in MEdia Center 2005 for use with some Microsoft supported portable media players.) Commercial downloads of movies would be supported but users woiuld be free to use the machine fully for their own material. There would be some people abusing the privilige with [irated video content but preventing that would have to be attempted at a different part of the chain.
soco @ Jul 6th 2006 7:09AM
"Oh Boy, more Blue Screens for me to enjoy....
Like I don't have enough as it is..."
get a non-shitty graphics card and decent drivers as that's the cause of like 98% of all blue-screens.
can't really blame MS for that, althoug they've improved it in Vista, by reducing the number of switches into kernel mode.
~~~~~~~~~~
anyway, i think it makes sense that it wouldn't play games. it'll be hard to make an ipod killer if you remove the simplicity. adding gaming likely means adding more useless buttons. if it does play games, i expect they'll be XBLA games, something that can be operated with like 2-3 buttons and a d-pad like input.
Omega2k3 @ Jul 6th 2006 7:13AM
HAR HAR!!! BLUE SCREEN! HAR HAR!!111111111111111
I haven't had an unexpected shutdown or lockup the entire time I've used a PC. On the other hand, I HAVE had three iMacs completely fail on me. I couldn't even start the things back up, they were utterly broken. They froze from the stupidest crap, too, like opening AppleWorks and stuff.
Jay @ Jul 6th 2006 7:25AM
I love liars, Omega. They make me gyrate in delight. So you had 3 iMacs break and a PC never crash? I wish this place could support a rolleye smiley.
Tell you what, heres a slice of truth. I was a PC user since 1995. I bought a PowerBook last year. I've never been forced to format the system, only doing so for an entirely clean update to 10.4. Never a crash, never a lock up. PC's? I spent ages crafting the perfect PC (for 2004) and it crashes on average at least 4 times a week. same for my other desktops and family computers. no thanks.
So Microsoft aim to compete with both the iPod AND the Gameboy/DS? Good luck to them, they're really going to need it. How many times has "iPod killer" been passed around? How many rivals have both machines fought off, no matter how big the opposition may be (looks at Sony). Throwing money at something will do nothing, which seems to be Microsoft's strategy.
vidGuy @ Jul 6th 2006 8:15AM
After this music device fails to make a dent in iPod sales, MS should cut there losses. Will they? No. If they are planning a portable system, I'd expect it to be introduced next E3, where it will be the biggest news (no other big hardware news), and release Holidays 07.
It would be as much as a success as the PSP is. Take that how you want.
DG @ Jul 6th 2006 8:37AM
After using iTunes for so long and considering I'm on a Mac, a new Windows iPod-killer is of zero use to me. Will the program used be Windows Media Player? Thanks, but no thanks. You can keep your WMA, PlaysForSure (maybe) crap to yourself.
MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 8:53AM
I don't understand why this would be one unit and not two different ones.
The market for portable music is larger than the market for portable gaming. By making one all-encompassing unit you either raise the price or limit the music capabilities (or both), and you lessen the interested crowd.
Why compete with the DS and the PSP when that market is mostly tapped?
I'd love to replace my ipod with a non-Apple unit. But there are no good ones. I imagine Microsoft would do it right (hopefully) and it would be kind fo nice to let my money respond to those annoying Apple commercials.
But I'm not in the market for portable gaming. I'm not even in it for video, though I'd take it. I just want music. If Microsoft combines music and gaming I'll just stick with my iPod. If they make a quality, music-exclusive unit, I'll take it.
"After this music device fails to make a dent in iPod sales, MS should cut there losses."
HAHAHA. Apparently you haven't seen the huge dent already in iPod sales. Have you taken a look at Apple's stock in 2006?
IslandLife @ Jul 6th 2006 8:55AM
I agree Jay, I'm surprised Omega didn't get struck by lightning right after posting such a blatant lie. I've used a PC all my life until 1999, and once I started using a Mac, there was no way I was going back to a bug ridden, non-secure, freeze prone, constantly crashing, poorly designed, rotten excuse for an OS named Windows. And oh yeah, Vista will be released once MS is finished ripping off OSX. The leopard is coming!
Matt @ Jul 6th 2006 9:06AM
If successful, I could see this player falling into a comfortable second place behind the iPod with perhaps a 10-30% market share. At worst it will be a complete failure, but I have a feeling that MS will add all sorts of functionality with Windows and WMC, maybe even the 360.
They have the hardware and OS backup to easily make the player and the computer gel together, but they don't have the music infrastructure, pricing scheme or software platform (itunes) to be an iPod killer though. As much as people complain about iTunes, you have to admit it is simple to use and has quite a bit of features.
The iPod just has too much third party support to fall as well. You can hook it up to your BMW, Nike shoes, etc.
Best outlook is that this player is the "everything else" killer that sort of wipes out the HDD player market and leaves us with the MS player and Creative Zen at around 30% collectivlly and iPod still maintaining its 70%+ market share.
vidGuy @ Jul 6th 2006 9:10AM
A stock price doesn't indicate a company's influence/dominance in a market. The stock price has been influenced by several negative issues, including the battery issues and frivolous lawsuits over scratches.
To expect the iPods to sell millions every quarter is ludicrous. Steve Jobs said that to have the best iPod tech, you'd have to buy one every year. Most consumers aren't going to do that, so you should expect iPod sales to be cyclical... one quarter or year they'll be low, but within months they'll be up again. When the true video-iPod is released, I expect sales to boom.
So I'll rephrase: After this music device fails to gain any viable market share, MS should cut there losses.
The point is, it would have to be the best product of the next 20 years to be an "iPod-killer". And I don't see that coming from MS.
bandit @ Jul 6th 2006 9:18AM
This is what I envison. Currently Geometry Wars, Uno, and Im sure eventually solitaire will eventually be HUGE casual gamer fare.
No imagine an iPod that lets you listen to music while playing uno against your xbox live friends at home or PC users at work. Now imagine that same $5 purchase lets you play uno o your cellphone, this new device, on the PC and xbox all for the same $5 dollars. In addition the 99 cent song you purchased is also playable of each of these platforms for a one time purchase. Foolish you, say? Me thinks not. If this thing had the capability to play uno against people on xbox live it could be an Ipod killer and I could very well see MS reaching their 1 billion people mark. Not in the xbox console but their brand of live anywhere.
MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 9:27AM
"I've used a PC all my life until 1999"
Then you missed XP, which fixed all those problems.
While I'm not saying you'd prefer it over OSX, I'm just saying what you're complaining about disappeared. My PC had an 8 month uptime before I reset it two months ago. And it hasn't been reset since.
8 months of heavy usage, heavy gaming, heavy media, without being turned off or reset? That's stability. OSX can do the same, no doubt, but to disparage Windows for "constantly crashing" is pure ignorance these days.
"The point is, it would have to be the best product of the next 20 years to be an "iPod-killer"."
To be a killer? Yes. To be a damager? No. Apple's stock has fallen because sales have fallen, yes. Sales have fallen because of the nature of the product, yes. But other products have gained ground. None specifically, but all collectively. The image of the iPod has grown tarnished. For one, people want something different. iPod was cool at first, now it's conformity. For another, iTunes isn't "elegant" as some people say. It's a large, annoying piece of software that constantly tries to load itself or one of its components. Uninstalling it was the best thing I ever did for my iPod. It won't take much to make a better program. But iTunes is an easy one that people know, which is more important than "better" in this market.
Someone in the engadget thread linked here mentioned that the iPod will never be killed, much like the Walkman and Discman never was. Which is true. But he tried to say this was a sign of Apple's dominance. Which is untrue. What was the discman/walkman market share at the peak of those products? A fraction of what Apple has. Brands came out that were just as good and much cheaper, and the public flocked to them. Again, no one product, but all combined they easily had more market share than Sony.
Which is all Microsoft needs to do. The market is huge, and Apple's share is huge. Microsoft doesn't need to take Apple from 85% to 20%. Microsoft just needs to eat a chunk of that. If Apple ends up with 50% of the market and Microsoft ends up with 35% they'll be happy. The iPod won't be dead, but it will be wounded.
Apple's dominance cannot last. No consumer product keeps up like this. Cheaper, equal alternatives will always take the market. While they may never singularly topple the leader, they will always collectively do so. It will be no different with mp3 players. Apple has nowhere to go but down, and they're already headed there.
Just a fact of the market. Much like Motorola lost its huge lead in cellphones, or Sony lost its huge lead in walkmen, or Victrola lost theirs in turntables...
boywundr @ Jul 6th 2006 9:27AM
@ IslandLife, Jay - I'm not sticking up for the dude, but I will give you my 2 cents about the topic (don't convert it to foreign money because my opinion won't be worth ANYTHING)...
I never owned a Mac until I was forced to at work almost a year ago. The work I do is in video production, mostly 3D and compositing it with video my coworkers shoot and edit. The new dual 2.5 G5's with 4 gigs of ram were supposed to rock our socks off and boy did they... for the first 5 minutes. Shake never works right and crashes more often than not, Motion's "real-time" that they talk so much about is far from great and doesn't "integrate" with Final Cut, etc - the list goes on. My system locks up HARD when I start simple programs like Firefox! I've replaced some of the memory that came with it once, the 250 gig drive once, we've sent one entire system back... and that's just the machine I work on, not the other guys who have had as many issues as I have. PC's aren't perfect but I HATE hearing Mac's are... OSX is flashy but annoying. They may not have issues with viruses but they have their own set of annoyances that a PC may not. Be fair. Sorry to vent/rant/annoy anyone.
To stay on topic, I agree this portable will give you the simple games like an iPod does and that's it. Someone will hack it and play a mini Pac-Man as well. Worth it for that? Nah. I dig my XM too much!
Jason W @ Jul 6th 2006 9:28AM
MS is making Mech Assault for the DS soon so I think it will most likely be an ipod like device.
dude... @ Jul 6th 2006 9:35AM
Well, I for one welcome MS to the battle. More competition is always good.
I don't think this device has any bearing for their long term gaming initiatives, however, I have a hunch there's some 'live' initiative here. Imagine puchasing a song/video once and be able to access it via any device without physically attaching the portable to the computer? I think that's a valuable feature if it's implemented correctly.
In the marketing realm I think that breaking into iPod's marketing dominance is going to be nearly impossible for any company. Users are sheeps and loyal ones to boot. Not that that's baaaaad, but it makes it tough for competitors over a short time span... microsoft and others may have to wait 10 years instead. Anyways... start stocking up on your Apple stocks.
LongshotX @ Jul 6th 2006 10:07AM
I don'y know what kind of system you're running but I haven't seen the blue screen of death in nearly 5 years. My friends new Dell Laptop gets them all the time though.
On the subject of Microsoft releasing a portable. I hope they succeed. Somebody needs to find a way to overcome the Ipod+Itunes combination. It is clearly not the best MP3 player on the market nor is Itunes the easiest software to use when it comes to managing media. If they can focus on creating an Image, and not be all over the place like Creative they may be able to pull something off. Good Luck Microsoft. We need a revolution!
Soulglow @ Jul 6th 2006 10:07AM
I never cared about the iPod and I'm pretty sure I don't care about this device either.
But the picture of the gameboy with the BSOD just about broke my spleen. Great stuff.
Zell @ Jul 6th 2006 10:34AM
Windows XP you say, MosquitoControl?
About five years ago, when my last PC bit the dust, I got a Mac. I currently use PCs sometimes at work (Windows XP) and all those issues you say have disappeared but be using our computers at the office as refuge. We've had to reinstalled XP a few times, the machine constantly needs restarting, and this is from standard office use. Macs and OSX aren't perfect but they're freakin' close. I couldn't imagine going back to using a Windows-based anything now.
What's Microsoft planning to run on this machine, Windows Media Player? That's godawful software and everyone knows it.
I find the whole thing interesting. Interesting that a lot of companies can't grasp that simple is often better. The iPod became what it is now because it started by doing one thing and one thing only, and did so simply. I feel it's the same with the DS. Simple focus.
As much as I despise most thing Microsoft, I do think it would be interesting to see what they come up with. I do hope, however, they realize through Sony that if you try to get everybody to like you not many will.
Jdoki @ Jul 6th 2006 10:47AM
I'm pretty happy about this - after testing Vista it's obvious MS are taking a very modern - some might say - Apple approach to design, so hopefully that will knock on to the design and functionality of the MS Music Player.
I used to own a Zen Micro, but it was too bulky, not great for use during sports becaus eof the micro-drive, froze a lot, and seemed to require a lot of firmware updates. On the plus side it had a replaceable battery, great sound quality and a built in FM radio.
When the Zen died I bought an iPod Nano.
Fantastically small, and great for use during sports. But the downsides of not wanting to work with anything but iTunes, and a reluctance to work with other hardware - such as the XBox360 has really annoyed me.
As I've said in other threads, DRM is something we all have to live with, like it or not, but out of the two (Media Player and iTunes) the MS restrictions are the lesser of two evils. I resent the fact that I have paid for some music, but can not listen to it as a soundtrack on my Xbox360 - it's the main reason I'll never buy another iTune and have switched back to purchasing CD's.
So, if MS come up with a few nice capacity models - take the best features provided by Creative, and add a pinch of Apple design philosophy I'll happily trade in my Nano for the MS product.
devi8i @ Jul 6th 2006 10:48AM
#22
What dent in ipod sales???? 2nd quarter last year apple sold 5.2 million ipods 2nd quarter this year they sold 8.5 million units. That sure looks like an increase to me and it was the FIRST quarter ipod sales did not beat the prior quarter sales, due in part to the record sales of 14 million units the previous quarter.
Stock prices due not reflect the number of units sold.
Add to this that apple has sold over 1 Billion songs on itunes already, and they sell over 1 million videos a week on itunes. I dont see a dent at all.
MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 10:48AM
"We've had to reinstalled XP a few times, the machine constantly needs restarting, and this is from standard office use."
Funny. We never had a problem at my last office. Or my current office. But someone else here has mentioned having serious OSX problems at his office.
See how anecdotal evidence works?
I haven't had one BSOD since I went to XP. And the only crashes I've had have been from running DOS programs that cause a hard reboot. And that was two machines ago, none of the others have done that.
"Macs and OSX aren't perfect but they're freakin' close."
Good opinion. But they're far from close to me. Yet XP is. If XPs userbase was the size of OSX's, and therefore hackers left it alone, it likely would be perfect. But I haven't had spyware issues in about two years, anyway.
"What's Microsoft planning to run on this machine, Windows Media Player? That's godawful software and everyone knows it."
Yes. Moderately worse than iTunes. But absolutely worse.
"Interesting that a lot of companies can't grasp that simple is often better. The iPod became what it is now because it started by doing one thing and one thing only, and did so simply."
Every mp3 player I've used has been equally simple.
However, marketing failed.
iPods sold on marketing. A good product, not necessarily better (and certainly more expensive) than the competition, but with good marketing.
The white earbuds alone sold millions of units. Every major newspaper has run several articles on the desire to be seen with white earbuds, and how people that couldn't afford iPods started buying white earbuds for their discmen.
"As much as I despise most thing Microsoft"
Any particular reason, or do you just like having something to hate?
"I do hope, however, they realize through Sony that if you try to get everybody to like you not many will."
Isn't it now Nintendo trying to get everyone to like them?
Isn't that mostly succeeding?
Endejas @ Jul 6th 2006 10:52AM
The Portable gaming market is full with Nintendo consoles (as well as the PSP). I think Microsoft should wait for the specs on the next iteration of the PSP and DS to enter portable gaming.
This thing should be an exclusive music player. Establish an image, then branch out into more areas. Add some XBLA compatability (Geo Wars on the go? Yes, please.), and throw in some Xbox 360/Media Center functionality (Live Anywhere), and you got a great system. I heavily doubt it will topple the iPod, but with so many of those things out there, something fresh (and cheaper) will help take some market share.
If they can cross-over their URGE music store onto the portable (and maybe the 360) they could have a strng unified front, which seems to be their over-all plan for products this year.
BlackYoshi @ Jul 6th 2006 11:19AM
1. Oh, microsoft allways copying apple and nintendo
I know as a Mac fanboy, you feel no one else can make MP3 players (even though they were around before the Ipod ever was), but seriously, do shut up.
32_Footsteps @ Jul 6th 2006 11:24AM
On a comment towards Cringer8's comment about price...
Honestly, I never got a stance like that - that expensive automatically equals better. I seriously wonder whether people actually believe that anyhow.
Let's pretend for a moment that Microsoft did create this iPod-like machine. Let's say Microsoft managed to get it working well enough (about as well as the iPod, and I've heard numerous complaints about those). And let's say that Microsoft found a way to produce it such that it could be sold at a reasonable profit for $150.
Is there any evidence to believe that Microsoft would actually get more customers (or at least, not lose enough customers to make the profit margins equal if not higher) if they charged $250 instead of $150?
bladestar @ Jul 6th 2006 11:35AM
Cry me a river all anti-Microsoft people. I own a MAC and guess what? I still have to use windows to play video games (I'm not taking about Tetris). Now if you want to use your computer to only browse the internet, listen to music or do Photoshop then get a Mac for everything else including what the mac can do get a PC. I can't wait for vista which improved a lot specially when it comes to Video Games with Direct X 10 and the XNA. How about the media center, should I get rid of it, just because you hate Microsoft and anything they make? The sad part about most anti-company people is that they miss out on other great products. i.e I bough a ipod (I like itunes) and also a Motorola MP3 player that does everything else including FM radio. So, if Microsoft comes with a product with features like wifi, games, view word docs, excel files, etc then you can all kiss my hairy ass!
vidGuy @ Jul 6th 2006 11:42AM
32_Footsteps:
If MS sold the system at $149, but did no advertising or marketing of any kind... but at $249 they could advertise like Apple? Yeah, they'd get more consumers. Based on a high-quality image alone, though, with no difference elsewhere; they'd get less.
The "higher cost = better quality" concept is used more often to compare two products. Apple can charge a premium because they have a quality image going for them. In the flash market, Apple can sell it's Shuffle for $20 more than a comparable competitor because of it.
A winning solution here may be to undercut Apple by offering a system similar in function, with the same or more capacity, for $100 less. If MS came out with a 30GB player for $199, I'd be game to try it. We all know that MS doesn't have a problem lossing money to get a consumer base. And, like the XBOX making up its losses in games and accessories, the music player could make up losses with music sales and service subscriptions.
After MS got a decent market share, they could begin to offer premium sets and raise prices to make (more of) a profit per sale.
MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 11:42AM
"Is there any evidence to believe that Microsoft would actually get more customers (or at least, not lose enough customers to make the profit margins equal if not higher) if they charged $250 instead of $150?"
You have to do it within reason.
Look at Grey Goose vodka. Have you read any interviews with its creator? All he wanted to do was beat Absolut. So he priced it higher. He then noticed that French distillers were being hurt because no one was drinking what they made at the time (I think brandy) so he contracted with some. Not only were they much cheaper than the other vodka distilleries he had been looking at, but he knew he could sell it as "French" which would make people think "classy."
So he just made a vodka based on image and marketing. He didn't try to make a better vodka, just one that seemed better, largely due to being the most expensive. And look how well it worked. He sold the brand for a large fortune.
It's all about finding a balance. Can another vodka come out and outprice Grey Goose? Probably not successfully, as GG is about as high as people are willing to pay. I think Apple hit that ceiling as well.
Rare Hare @ Jul 6th 2006 12:31PM
Yes, I've heard all that and apparently all that is true.. BUT, the thing is that Grey Goose is still a pretty damn good vodka.
He DID make a good vodka, he just sold it by creating a classy image for it. You're referring to balance, and in this kind of situation you have to have a good product along with good marketing to maintain balance.
For example, if Grey Goose had turned out to have been a bad vodka with a high price, word of mouth would have labeled it as overpriced shit, and with good reason.
I know these aren't the points you were trying to make, but i was just building on your analogy for the situation.
The ZeroCorpse @ Jul 6th 2006 12:40PM
1. I switched to Mac in 2004. Before that I built PCs, and did tech support on them for a living. I'm no PC noob.
2. I am not anti-Microsoft. I own an Xbox 360 (and love it) and I use MS programs daily.
3. That being said, I would not go back to Windows. I even deleted the Boot Camp Windows XP partition on my Mac because I just never felt like using it.
4. The argument I keep hearing is "I need Windows to play video games." and I agree. If you don't have a new console, then you've found the one thing Windows is good at. I, on the other hand, would rather get my work done on my PC, and leave most of the gaming to my 360. Of course, I still play games on my Mac (primarily WoW, which I finally quit, and NWN, which still rocks), and when I had Windows installed on it I could play PC games, but I discovered I don't need PC games. They sort of suck in comparison to XBox 360 & Nintendo DS, and I don't have to blow a wad of cash to change my video card every six months.
5. A Microsoft "iPod killer" will not succeed. Simply put, by the time Redmond gets to market with this WiFi download music player (with required subscription to MS Music, of course), Apple will have one that allows not only music downloads (subscription-free) but video downloads, and more. Apple will stay a step ahead of everyone. They also have the best interface, hands down. Unless Microsoft can address that and somehow manage to make an interface that rivls the one on the iPod, they'll be left behind.
6. You use what works for you (PC/Windows) and I'll work with what I've had the most pleasure and success (Mac OS X). It's not religion or politics, guys. Your choice of computer doesn't make you gay, a heathen, or the bad guys. Grow up.
Zell @ Jul 6th 2006 1:26PM
MosquitoControl...
I can, really only talk of my experiences with Windows XP. Great that it hasn't been a headache for you and I wish all my Windows-using friends had the same experiences you do.
I salute Microsoft for making computers affordable to everyone, but I feel they could have tightened up their OSs ages ago. Offer real solutions. Their software has become standard for most and it's still infuriating to operate. I grind my teeth every time I'm forced to use something as basic as Word. But that's really just my opinion and part of the reason I don't care much for them.
At least we agree Windows Media Player is utter crap.
Hmm, you might be right about Nintendo trying to make everyone like them. They're keeping things very simple though and that's why the DS has been a success. When I said 'everyone' though, I should have pointed out people who respectively want music, or movies or games. It's very different creating something everyone could easily enjoy than something that's crammed with everything but a kitchen sink. With so many 'target audiences' you lose focus, I think.
Zachary Hinchliffe @ Jul 6th 2006 1:44PM
I am not a Mac fanboy. I have never owned a Macintosh computer in my life, and only have used them in passing or at my school. I am not a Linux or OS/2 or FreeBSD or any minority operating system fanboy. I have never even used any of them but Damn Small Linux, as a system recovery liveCD. I have been a PC and Microsoft Windows owner all my life (although I am planning on getting a Mac soon, but that is not the point).
Windows crashes, on average, 3 to 4 times a week for me. I have owned a half-decent Dell Dimension 4300 since 2001, and ever since mid-2002 I was having serious problems with my machine, and I still do. Oftentimes, I'm working on a program, it's going at decent speeds, and without warning it will crash. I wish I was not making this stuff up.
The bottom line is: Don't lie, Microsoft fanboys. Windows is definitely an unstable operating system. I don't know if any other is more stable but I know for a fact that Windows XP, ME, 98, and 95 (never used 2000 or NT) are extremely faulty operating systems.
(Also, on an unrelated note, Windows Media Player 11 beta is one of the best media players I've ever used.)
MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 2:17PM
"Windows is definitely an unstable operating system. I don't know if any other is more stable but I know for a fact that Windows XP, ME, 98, and 95 (never used 2000 or NT) are extremely faulty operating systems."
Again, XP is not the problem. If you're having difficulty it is something else.
XP is rock solid, only slightly less than OSX, and considering it has more to worry about due to non-standardized hardware...
Like I said, my computer was up for 8 months last time. No crashes. None. If yours crashes almost daily it's probably a hardware issue.
98 was bad. Leave the computer on 3 days and the clock would start losing time, after a week or so it might be as much as an hour off. Me was even worse.
XP? No way.
Look up any review.
Look up any stability test.
XP comes out with flying colors.
If you're having an issue with crashing the fault lies with someone other than Microsoft.
Endejas @ Jul 6th 2006 2:27PM
i'm running XP on a store-bought HP Pavillion desktop. i've had this computer since christmas 2004, and only once has this computer had a "serious" crash (happened yesterday actually..)
I have no problems with XP, IE, or any other Microsoft product/software. like mosquito said, hardware is usually at fault.
Zachary Hinchliffe @ Jul 6th 2006 2:31PM
Oh yes, XP is by far the best operating system that Microsoft's ever made, no question. It's just that the average consumer level desktop tower (not one you build) is usually extremely flawed. Building your own computer will probably lead to much better results, but most average people don't know how to assemble a computer. I completely fried my tower just putting in a new hard drive recently. I have no engineering expertise, and quite frankly, you shouldn't be expected to have engineering expertise to get a decent computer in today's world, where computing is an aspect of life.
bladestar @ Jul 6th 2006 2:34PM
@MosquitoControl don’t bother trying to explain that OSX stability is due to the MAC consistent Hardware configuration. They will not accept or understand that. This is similar to video game in consoles VS computers. Same hardware is equal to a more stable gaming experience. Being able to run on any system regardless of hardware is windows strength and weakness. Since 95% of screen of death are due to graphic drivers Microsoft is trying to fix this issue by encouraging graphic card manufacturers to use a common api (XNA, DirectX 10 in Vista).