Rumor: MSFT's Zune to feature Live Anywhere
"Part of the plan to attract [iPod] users involves a 'Live Anywhere' architecture, which includes WiFi-based sharing, a 'we not me' community approach, and 'connected entertainment'. Driving the project will be the Xbox team and philosophy, which confirms earlier reports. According to recent sources, the player will be spearheaded by 'the team that designed and launched Xbox,' and the 'intention is the use the Xbox and the Xbox community as an entry point' for the upcoming release."
Sounds really swell, all right. Problem is, with a rumored $399 price point (that's the same price as an Xbox 360!) for a 30GB Zune, Microsoft's going to try their hand at the luxury pricing model that's been working well for some while resulting in a lot of flak for others. We know J is cooler than a ship full of tattooed ninja pirates (his stylist told us as much), but will his stewardship coupled with the Xbox "philosophy" really sell MP3 players. Go ahead and color us skeptical ... but be gentle.
[Via Engadget]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Eric @ Jul 17th 2006 8:25PM
Ummm... Looks ugly, sounds ugly, crappy name. That's a big fat no from me.
Zo K. @ Jul 17th 2006 8:25PM
At that price, if things go the way they're planned and I had no other choice, I'd certainly take one of these over an iPod.
Fortunately, I DO have a choice. Sorry Microsoft... Apple sells status for that price with their MP3 player. You don't have that yet, and I wouldn't be interested if you did. Creative Labs has always done it better, anyway.
Insomnia Bob @ Jul 17th 2006 8:33PM
Notice my poinient lack of surpise that this is not a game platform.
Bruno @ Jul 17th 2006 8:36PM
Also, to attract current iPod owners, they will need to support the AAC format on this thing (non-protected stuff only, of course, but still).
amog @ Jul 17th 2006 8:38PM
I would be interested if they said it was, say, 80gb for that price. But 30? No way. I'll stick to my Ipod.
Edge of Blade @ Jul 17th 2006 8:39PM
Honestly, Live Anywhere kinda goes without saying. I'm not so sure this wasn't speculated out of just thin air...but common-sense thin air. It seems like a natural progression of messenger/gaming connected devices.
Endejas @ Jul 17th 2006 8:44PM
Wow, $399 is very high. I only bought an iPod because a)Apple finally released something small (Mini didn't look good at all) b)The Nano costs $149.99.
If they bring it down to 249-299, I might consider buying it (and skipping out on a Wii). If it's under 200, I'll definately go for it. WMP11 is stupidly simple and a whole lot less of a hassle than iTunes.
But I guess they might be trying to establish a high-priority name for themselves and then lower the price and span out on the devices. Sort of like Apple. Think it'll work?
Canadian Geese @ Jul 17th 2006 8:48PM
Live Anywhere on it is an attractive feature. However, I will be able to get that on my cell phone, so I'll probably pass. That widescreen ipod sounds mighty nice... let's hope it becomes a reality.
Comtar @ Jul 17th 2006 8:48PM
Zune... not to be confused with the numerous other made up words like... Blog... Wii... Ipod... Podcasting... Google... and the way George Bush pronounces Nuclear.
avex @ Jul 17th 2006 8:58PM
"we not me" i thought it sid "wii not me"
Josh @ Jul 17th 2006 9:12PM
As I said when this thing was first announced: it is ugly, or rather not simple, and will therefore not kill the iPod. It does not have that attractive simplicity.
With the announcement of the name, I am 100% sure it will not kill the iPod, and the prices seals the deal. Microsoft messed up again.
Eric @ Jul 17th 2006 9:18PM
Is that the real model or is it just a mock-up by someone? I can't believe Microsoft would be stupid enough to use something so ugly in it's attempt to dethrone the iPod.
sputnik @ Jul 17th 2006 9:33PM
WMP11 is much better than Itunes
You can buy your songs from URGE, Napster, Yahoo Music, BuyMusic.com, Wal-Mart and a few more stores.
That alone does it for me...but if they ad some cool wireless functionality in the premium versions that would be cool. But from what I understand there will be several different models making up a whole line of players...not just one.
Eric @ Jul 17th 2006 9:36PM
@ #4 Bruno: Good point- Apple forces new iPod owners into converting their CDs to AAC, only to find out later that they have a choice to rip to MP3s. (Happened to me, anyways). I realized I had a choice when I was up at 500 songs. So I said screw it. I think AAC files are generally smaller, though.
Back to the point- Why the F would an iPod owner buy this? It better have some REDICULOUS advances in technology if they want satisfied iPod owners like me to switch.
In the end, I think this will be like the DS vs. PSP debate. (Where iPod is DS and Microsoft's ugly thing is the PSP) It will make a decent run at the #1 spot, but in a few years it will drown in its own inferiority.
h2c @ Jul 17th 2006 9:37PM
Heh.
Microsoft's plan: "...a 'we not me' community approach..."
Nintendo's plan: "...it's really not about you or me. It's about Wii. And together..."
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/27/nintendo-revolution-now-called-wii/
Apple's plan: "Create with iLife. Share with .Mac"
http://www.apple.com/dotmac/
Sony's plan: "...PlayStation HUB will offer [PS3] owners much the same services as Xbox Live..."
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/ps3-launch-date-september-21-plus-ps3-hub-154989.php
Why isn't anyone catering to the loner? I like playing games and listening to music by myself, basking in the cold dead glow of my tv late at night. Community be damned.
EP @ Jul 17th 2006 9:41PM
Everyone has an iPod. My Grandmother has an iPod. Microsoft will try, but they will fail...
Jeff @ Jul 17th 2006 9:46PM
$399 for a whole lotta junk. You know, all those people who bought iPods bought them to do one thing. (Yeah yeah, now there's video... you know what? Nobody buys an iPod for video.)
At best, MS is wasting a whole lot of money and jacking up the price to compensate for a bunch of useless features that nobody cares about, ending up with a device that actually costs *more* than the product they're trying to steal market share away from.
At worst, they're going to end up with a product that bombs just as bad as the UMPC and tablet PC have.
The Zune, like all of MS's worst products, is an answer to a question no one asked.
Nice try, MS. On second thought, I retract that.
corwin @ Jul 17th 2006 10:12PM
"Live Anywhere" to me means being annoyed by advertisements, "at all times."
Willo @ Jul 17th 2006 10:50PM
Why would you want to kill the iPod? You go out there fighting giants, and one of these days you're going to get squished.
fahmi @ Jul 17th 2006 11:47PM
M$ will fail? for the exception of their wireless modem.. they never lost a war.
Windows VS Macintosh
Internet Explorer VS Netscape
Windows Media Player VS Real Player
Windows Mobile VS Palm OS VS Blackberry
Microsoft Office VS Lotus Suite
Windows Mobile Smartphone VS Symbian
and best yet, Apple never won anything when M$ in the field.
dotun.o @ Jul 17th 2006 11:52PM
It's not going to be easy for any mp3 player to dethrone the iPod. The strongest contender will probably be the cellphones being released now that have hard disks (as they improve of course; still too low capacity for now). This is if the re-attempt at media convergence works. Cellphones, like the iPod, are commonplace (indeed, much more common) and it may not be hard to convince people to choose them over the iPod.
Media convergence has not always worked but as chips and components get smaller and faster, it's likely to ultimately succeed. To stay alive, the iPod and cellphones may ultimately become pocket computers - not PDAs like we still have today, but full-featured compact computers.
someguy @ Jul 17th 2006 11:53PM
399. microsoft is so arrogant.
J.Goodwin @ Jul 17th 2006 11:59PM
Microsoft already supports AAC on the 360, so it's a good bet that this player will support that as well. It may be as a "patch" that's available on day one, but it will be supported.
Unfortunately, Apple doesn't want to share their "fairplay" details with anyone, so the locked down shit is still going to be owned by them and them alone, and leased to you as long as you buy their products.
Ninegauger @ Jul 18th 2006 12:09AM
My first instinct is colossal failure, but that was also my instinct when they released a hideously ugly videogame console and look at them now...
Isaac Klavsky @ Jul 18th 2006 12:21AM
I don't think its ugly. I think its destined to fail and be forgotten. The iPod seems like too heavy a contender to approach with something similar, but not the same. Notice how the plastic and color scheme looks similar to a 360. It seems like they're destined to be marketed side by side. The iPod just seems more trendy now though than something designed for function, just function, not just to be a super-hip toy.
Note though, I want an iPod more than this thing, because I really don't trust things that cost 400 dollars when there is something essentially identical to it on the market that is cheaper.
Luke @ Jul 18th 2006 1:10AM
I just did an interview last week with the Seattle Times columnist who started the big interest in Agro (Now called Zune). I asked him about that and I think he confirms what you said.
http://www.gameaddicthotline.com/?p=106
Here's the link to the posting with a flash listener for those not interested in dl'ing it.
Luke
Game Addict Hotline
Hanz Blinx @ Jul 18th 2006 1:15AM
It's not that bad looking, the latest rev is a bit sleeker, not so "toy" looking.
http://www.zunescene.com
nick @ Jul 18th 2006 1:21AM
Lame.
ill trooper @ Jul 18th 2006 2:44AM
Looks interesting... Until Apple kills it dead by adding anything remotely unique in the Zune to the next iPod.
I will laud it for its (seemingly) simple interface, so unlike Microsoft, I'll add. I want to know what it can do as much as the next guy, but really now... Apple prices from a company not really known for Apple's form and functionality?
You can't be both the 'cheap everywhere guys' AND the 'expensive designy little guy.'
Microsoft is in a rare position of being out of their league on this one, all other companies have attempted to compete with the iPod for years with comparable, and likely fine products... And have met their demise in the market against generation after generation of iPod. MS had better be ready for several generations of battles here too. I mean, this thing is confusing - what the fuck is 'Live Anywhere?' Wi-Fi sharing? On which amazing new battery are we going to try WiFi sharing? Which magical DRM deal with the RIAA and labels is going to suddenly allow any sort of 'WiFi sharing?' You can't play Halo2, so who cares? Maybe I'll use this thing to message my friends I'll be home in 20 to join them in Halo... Oh wait, I can already SMS them or be in a IM on my Sidekick. The iPod is marketed as a 'Music Player' first, not some confusing MS all-in-one.
I'm sounding naive on purpose here as I'm trying to visualize how the average person, already happy with their iPod, is going to react. We're really far down the road with the iPod - the average person will ask "WHY change the course until something as new and different as the iPod was comes along again?"
Oh, and should things get weird and close, Apple is a simple software upgrade away from adding WMV support to the iPod.
cringer8 @ Jul 18th 2006 4:34AM
The name "Zune" is such a plea for attention.
They couldn't get all "techie" with the name, as it would alienate the masses (so acronyms and numbers were out). It had to be a short-and-simple name that couldn't possibly be associated with anything other than what it does.
Rhyming with "tune" is pretty lame, though. There are a million other directions they could have gone. This word is, in a way, too literal. It may as well have been "Zusic Zlayer."
"iPod" works and it has nothing to do with music, per say. "Pod" is just a cute way of saying "container" and we all know the "i" was/is a Macintosh naming "thing."
"Zune" makes no sense at all for Microsoft(like "Wii"; another bad name).
Maybe it was originally "Xune" (linking is to the Xbox), but they could have been worried that some people might not know to pronounce the "X" as a "Z." So they just went with "Zune" to avoid confusion.
It's just a theory.
Either way, it won't be the name that makes this thing fail. I just don't like "Zune" at all.
Wouldn't it have been hilarious if they went with "xPod?"
chazz06 @ Jul 18th 2006 5:35AM
Keep in mind Fahmi that all of the things you just listed are software applications...not hardware.
Thryon @ Jul 18th 2006 6:24AM
While the price is a bit high, if it allows me to eliminate iTunes, then I am in.
MS is anything but a one trick dog. They are bringing a lot more to this war than what they are showing. I expect a series of announcements soon. My speculation that there will be a series of such devices marketed a slightly different target audience. Zune may just be the flagship product. Only time will tell is MS will release lower scale products to satisfy most users. The important part, if that they should all share WiFi and Live Anywhere.
blankoboy @ Jul 18th 2006 8:05AM
So, will we be seeing a "Zune 360" a year from now as a follow up to Zune?
georgedakota @ Jul 18th 2006 8:30AM
I am tired of everyone saying this is ugly it just goes to show you how stupid america is. First off geniuses it hasnt even been announced by microsoft yet as a final product. I guarantee this mockup will change before it is released. Second of all no one said it will cost $399, they said "rumored". Rumored means it is possible it will happen. Then again the rumor could be half right and $399 could be for 60 gigs or more. Lastly we dont even know for sure what features it will have. Until official anouncements are made stop making yourselves sound like morons.
jc @ Jul 18th 2006 8:39AM
Being that I have to reinstall WinXP every 8 months, there is no way I am going to move my music from my mac to my pc... and I guarantee this expensive little toy will not connect to my iTunes.
I really wish MS would have spent this time getting the X360 a proper HDMI connector... or adding to the backwards compatibility list.
The term 'jack of all trades, master of none' comes to mind here.
Oh, #20 (fahmi)... I guarantee there are as many items that MS lost the war on, be realistic dude.
(ms paint vs adobe photoshop, ms frontpage vs dreamweaver, *nix servers vs ms servers, msn messenger vs yahoo/aol, windows vs virus/spyware)
Austin @ Jul 18th 2006 9:01AM
I think we are missing on simple possibilities between the multiple MS products. Being a 360 owner i like the music file sharing to my home theatre without having media center or burn discs. If this thing has wifi and can link with my 360, remote use with a better interface would be nice. Apple has pissed me off enough by not including wifi and sticking to letting its peripheral market make the money.
Austin @ Jul 18th 2006 9:07AM
Even the most loyal apple supporter should be happy about this. MS has the money to push the market and that is what we need. If apple gets some serious competition with their cash-cow ipod we should see some real innovation and falling prices. That, no matter what corner you are in, is a good thing for all of us.
mocax @ Jul 18th 2006 9:17AM
iPod is just a bloody expensive mp3 player without the music store.
And the bloody music store doesn't carry my favorite songs! bloody hell.....
Looking forward to Creative's Zen V Plus.
Clint @ Jul 18th 2006 9:35AM
Blah...I love my iPod and iTunes is a brilliant piece of software. There is no way in hell I'd use a M$ music player of any kind!
32_Footsteps @ Jul 18th 2006 9:37AM
Yeah, it does seem like Microsoft is trying to muscle in on Apple's overpriced mp3 player market. Of course, if they can provide a much easier interface (stupid AAC), or make the various iPods look like battery munchers, then they deserve to beat out Apple here.
Of course, given that we have the usual group of people complaining that the system looks ugly (because I know I buy music players to look at them), I suspect Microsoft will fail jsut because of the pointless prejudices of the buying public (whether or not the system is any good).
dude... @ Jul 18th 2006 9:39AM
This is all speculation. The media insists on calling it an ipod killer, but what if MSFT were to be satisfied with just grabbing the current Xbox userbase and then moving onto grabbing share from iPod, Sony etc.?
We don't know... so perhaps we should practice sound analysis and stop dooming the effort before it's even official. Subjective criticism on aesthetics of what's shown is one thing, but we still haven't seen anything else. ZuneNation.com seems to have plenty of ammo for those over-the-top armchair inustry commentators that need more reasons to doom and a non-existant product.
Todd H. @ Jul 18th 2006 9:44AM
$400, it'll never sell. How can they justify the same cost for this and the Xbox 360?
Todd
http://www.proxbox360.com
Magus @ Jul 18th 2006 9:47AM
Is it me or does this seem borderline copetitor for creative & like players. ipod is simple this seems to be more for a tech savy audience. But then again its hard to say if they really add intergration into windows then on the level of itunes its a competitor.
399 seems a bit rediculous for < 60gb...
As for the design i think its a still a model... if its not then meh..
I can definetly see MS doing some simpler flash games to it the interface is just enough 2 buttons and a pad.
My question is the rez on the display because if its sub vga its a waste. Thers no way i'm going to watch movies on anything sub 640x480. I think archos finaly released a player in the 500 range with 720x480 rez if that hits ~400. I think i'll go wiht that.
Joel Troughton @ Jul 18th 2006 10:03AM
What would make this thing a killer device would be a skype client built in, that connects to a network via its wifi.
joel @ Jul 18th 2006 10:25AM
I like the Zune from what I have read so far. It is great to see such alternatives like the zune to be Zune, the
rumoured baby Pixas also the new Meizu - Mini Player. There is little need to stick with iPod unless you are stuck with
iTunes.
http://www.miniplayer.info/
http://www.zunenation.com/
!
fahmi @ Jul 18th 2006 11:26AM
#36, JC
lol. Paint VS Photoshop? are you moron or something? it's like saying ford econovan VS Ferrari. they're not in the same league. one is for basic functionality, and cheaper price. another one is for high performance, ridiculous price.
MS Frontpage is part of MS Office. Dreamweaver is in Adobe Creative Suite. They don't go head-to-head. another analogy. you build an engine for boat, and you want to compare the its performance with truck engine. they're still engine and doing the same thing right? but they're not in the same competition. Frontpage is more to basic to intermediate users while dreamweaver targets high-end users. the correct war: Dreamweaver VS GoLive. (btw, Dreamweaver wins. golive got axed by adobe, and adobe bought macromedia).
Next, spyware. How do you expect a free software (Microsoft Defender) competes with $50-$99 software? and, M$ defender is still there. AND war hasn't ended until one side pulls out their software.
Phil Butcher @ Jul 18th 2006 1:05PM
I would say that I would pay for this if the 30gig hard drive was a solid state flash drive. The problem with ipods and the like that use normal, albeit slimmed down, hard drives is that they accrue a lot of wear and tear over time, significantly shortening their lifespan. Make it a flash drive though and no worries since there are less to no movable parts.
And 399 for a portable 30gig flash hard drive that played music and videos AND had wifi support? You would be able to sign me up. Until then, though, it is kind of dead in the water to me.
jc @ Jul 18th 2006 1:16PM
Nice, right off with being offensive... I will keep this short then.
As long as someone is still in, what you call a war, "AND war hasn't ended until one side pulls out their software"... but "Apple never won anything when M$ in the field"... how do you win, or lose for that matter? Hasn't Apple, by still being there constitute a win (because they didn't lose)?
dude, you might want to check that defination or 'moron' again to see if it includes contradicting yourself and being offensive toward others.
Jason @ Jul 18th 2006 1:16PM
Its kind of funny... you can see how stupid these iPod lovers are... barking about how simple the iPod is and that the Zune's are going to be too complicated... I guess reading is too hard for the iPod lovers because in every post about the Zune's it has been stated that they are going to offer a line of players, not just one... and that this is just a prototype... not the production unit!!! LEARN TO READ!!! Oh and if you are already convinced that a product that doesn't exist yet sucks then your just stupid...
How about Apple adds some USELESS TECH CRAP to the ALL WONDERFUL IPOD and sell one that comes with wireless headphones! If they are so innovative why the hell do you need those stupid white wires hanging all over the place!
The biggest market for iPods is children... like it or not... the average iPod junkie hasn't graduated high school yet... if you don't think that these kids are not going to like a music player with a "community" aspect then your just crazy... if kids can sit in class and chat with each other on these things and share music with each other on them while they are in the same room than the capacity isn't as important!
Think about it... If I can plug speakers into my MP3 player and everyone in the room can hear it isn't that "sharing"... a technology that allows you to do that via wifi just makes it that much easier and cooler... if you could share music from 10 different Zune's in the same room then your music collections are all combined and instead of one 30GB collection you have one 3000 GB collection! Now that is just some stupid gimic huh!
iPod lovers... OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!! Just because you don't see an Apple logo on it doesn't mean it's going to suck... at least let it be released before you start slamming it...
Oh and I'm sure they will find a way to sell wireless headphones with these Zune's since there is already WiFi integrated with them!! Oh... sorry thats another one of those useless techonologies that nobody wants...
Oh and of course... there is that "choice" that people have to use whatever music service you want... thats just stupid too I guess...
ill trooper @ Jul 18th 2006 2:31PM
Jason, you bring some excellent thoughts about how this might work, but you sound like such a negative condescending internet troll it's hard to stomach.
I don't look at something and dislike it because there's no Apple logo. But if I see a Microsoft logo I am a little skeptical - not as much attention to detail, interface, and usability as Apple tends to give me.
I'm telling you, anything the Zune has to offer can be implemented by Apple within months by Apple. Windows does it to OSX all the time. Erp, I mean they will eventually when Vista ships.
As for the wireless thing:
The white wires keep the iPod connected to the headphones that don't require RECHARGING. You should know that WiFi requires a lot more power to operate than bluetooth, which in turn requires more power than wired headphones, and that means one thing: shorter battery life.
I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but Apple is likely more experienced at this point producing a little battery-powered object than Microsoft. Every company making this sort of object is probably right near the magical ratio of acceptable interface performance to battery life. Not likely to change until there's a new breakthrough in batteries, but we all know how that sort of thing winds up (http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/index.html).
It's all over the rumor sites that wireless headphones are coming from Apple, they will likely beat this thing to market, but personally, I don't need them: I don't want to recharge them (yes, I can envision that Apple with have them charge at the same time you charge the iPod, but I don't want to carry objects that have varying lengths of battery life), and I think they might be easy to lose as they won't be connected, and that won't be a cheap replacement - a battery-powered bluetooth anything is going to cost more than the wired solution.
Not to mention anything battery-powered and wireless is likely going to look like a combination of the Oakley Thump glasses (http://www.zdnet.fr/i/edit/pr/2005/01/oakley_thump_enlarged.jpg) or those lame blinking bluetooth headsets... it's not a good look either way. "Mad dorky, yo" as the kids put it.