Joystiq interviews Greg Canessa of XBLA

Today, I sat down with Greg Canessa, the group manager for Xbox Live Arcade, and we spoke about the service as a whole and what was in store for this successful extension of the Xbox 360. We touched on everything from what effect Nintendo's Virtual Console might have to the fact that Texas Hold 'Em poker will not be free -- despite previous statements that it would.

We hear that it takes quite a while for the approval process a game must go through in order to make it onto Xbox Live Arcade. Is this true and if so, how will it affect Microsoft's ability to come through on the promise of at least one new XBLA game every Wednesday?
The process does take a while. Some developers and publishers just underestimate the amount of time it takes in the approval process. As far as making sure games come out every Wednesday, that won't be a problem. We have over 80 titles that are currently in development and have been cuing up releases in secret. What we're doing with our new XBLA Wednesday program is merely bringing structure to the whole process.
What happened with Street Fighter II? Why the delay?
Capcom just needed more time. Simple as that. They wanted to make sure they got it right because they knew the expectations were going to be very high for that game. There were a lot of multiplayer aspects that needed to be perfected so there wouldn't be any unnecessary lag and things like that. We wanted that game to be as smooth as possible.
When can we expect an announcement about the next batch of games coming to XBLA?
In the next week or so we will make that announcement.
How do you decide what specific kind of title to release when?
Well, the big thing is that XBLA is not a dumping ground for old or new games. We want to make sure we are spreading out the game releases and giving the gamers out there quality.
What sort of gamer are you trying to attract with XBLA?
We attract both the hardcore and casual gamer. In a lot of ways hardcore gamers are a superset of casual gamers. We all grew up with casual games. The first games we played as kids were essentially casual games. We were casual gamers once, so really, we all like casual-type games and not just hardcore ones. These type of games resonate with gamers just as much as Halo does. The hardcore gamers are buying these things in droves.

Any titles that surprised you with their success?
Geometry Wars was never a surprise to us. We knew that Geometry Wars would be our Halo. And it has ended up being that. The one thing we didn't know was the success Arcade would have in general. Uno was a title that a lot of people didn't think would be very big. There was a lot of debate internally about that. Some of us thought it would either be the biggest thing since sliced bread or it was going to be yawn, who cares. Uno is our fastest selling Arcade game in history and it has actually, last week, passed Geometry Wars as our best-selling title. They're both now neck and neck for number one.
What would you attribute Uno's attraction to?
Uno is all about a known game that everyone grew up with and doesn't require a lot of mental horsepower. You can sit there and chill out with your buddies and play a game. Also, it's cheap. People just really really love playing it online.
Are you guys worried at all about the competition with Nintendo's Wii and their Virtual Console?
We invented this space. We're the iTunes of games and we've been in the space for two years now. It took us a long time to build up Arcade and the platform and the service and hundreds of developers and relationships. So, we take a proactive approach to this market. What Nintendo does or doesn't do is up to them. I have a lot of respect for Nintendo, I'm a personal fan, but I can tell you that we're going to be exhibiting leadership and not reacting to what they do. We are going to maintain leadership in this space because we are so far ahead.

Why do you think you guys are "so far ahead," as you put it?
I think we have the right view on this. We're not just looking at retro. Retro is just one part of this. It's about the Sundance of games, which is about innovative indie game development. That is our longterm sustainable advantage. We are going full steam ahead on that space. Lumines Live! is the perfect example of quality original titles on Xbox Live Arcade. You're going to start to see more large, well-known designers in the industry doing original development for Xbox Live Arcade.
What's the process like for developers contacting you and getting their games on Arcade?
We are constantly getting contacted by developers. Frankly, we're pretty overwhelmed with the volume and quantity of submissions. We have a developers submissions alias where they first contact us by e-mail. They establish an initial contact and if we're interested we contact them back. They submit a concept and we review it and how it fits into our plan. We never know when the next Geometry Wars will walk through the door, so we make sure we keep enough spare cycles for the cool new game coming.

Besides Lumines Live!, one of the other games people are looking forward to is Texas Hold 'Em poker. Talk about what's in store for that.
First of all, it won't be free. We haven't decided on what the final price will be, but it will not be free. As far as incentives, we want to make sure gamers play with a purpose with a game like this that doesn't have any actual risk/reward. We will have a persistent bankroll system tied to your gamertag that will allow those who have built up enough money to enter higher-quality tournaments. Then, if you run out of money, you have to enter the freebie tournaments to build your bankroll back up.










Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Revolution @ Jul 20th 2006 5:28PM
What? No Joystiq shirt?
Baboon @ Jul 20th 2006 5:35PM
Not to nitpick, but under the question "Any titles that surprised you with their success?" the "are" in the last sentence should be "our".
Baboon @ Jul 20th 2006 5:37PM
Make that second to last, but I think you will find it. You're bright lads.
SickNic @ Jul 20th 2006 5:46PM
No Free Texas Hold'em? They probably realized they'd be losing money with that kind of a deal. Still sucks though...
Indiana Jones @ Jul 20th 2006 5:57PM
is this correct? i mean its not like microsoft to lie to us is it?! anyway im off to play streetfighter that was released in march 2006 and maybe follow up playing psychonauts that was released in the monthly BC updates
mike @ Jul 20th 2006 6:07PM
well the more success xbox live arcade games have the more it would cost a sponsor to make it free, sinple maths if they we negotiating say 8 months ago then the price MS were asking was probably reasonably low but now they have the success of the platform they probably wanted more and rightly so
i like the spunf of the virtual money linked to you gamertag althoug i csan see myself entering the broke tournments for some time :-)
Enigma @ Jul 20th 2006 6:15PM
"is this correct? i mean its not like microsoft to lie to us is it?! anyway im off to play streetfighter that was released in march 2006 and maybe follow up playing psychonauts that was released in the monthly BC updates"
Oh the horror, a game delayed, as if this never happens in the real world. If this was the case, then death to Nintendo eh?
And as for the BC, MSFT has said many of times, itis up to the publisher/developer of the games to make them BC for the 360, not MSFT. So blame the developer/publisher of Psychonauts.
jabbertrack @ Jul 20th 2006 6:17PM
"is this correct? i mean its not like microsoft to lie to us is it?! anyway im off to play streetfighter that was released in march 2006 and maybe follow up playing psychonauts that was released in the monthly BC updates"
MS didn't leak the Streetfighter release date, and half the whiners about psychonauts don't even have the game.
Do you even have a 360?
Riot9 @ Jul 20th 2006 6:25PM
I don't remember Mirosoft promising Psychonauts. In fact I specifically remember them saying they can't guarantee it, but had started working to get it done. And the Street Fighter delay looks like it was on Capcom's part. I do agree that they shouldn't release dates unless they are rock solid though.
Captain Obvious @ Jul 20th 2006 6:28PM
No one has commented on the most important aspect of the interview, with respect to Texas Hold'em..."As far as incentives, we want to make sure gamers play with a purpose with a game like this that doesn't have any actual risk/reward."
There's no fun in a poker game that's free and has no stakes; everyone just calls every hand down to the river regardless of their cards. I'm anxious to see what they do to implement a "risk/reward" system that will make poker exciting on XBLA.
Zozi @ Jul 20th 2006 6:31PM
Oh, awesome. That "persistant bank roll" he spoke of sounds great. It's not quite the same as gambling for gamerpoints, but at least they're letting us gamble with /something/.
copa @ Jul 20th 2006 6:44PM
How retarded. In January, they announced unequivocally that Hold 'Em would be free, subsidized by a casino sponsorship deal.
Last month, on Major Nelson's podcast, Greg said the game was held up purely because of lawyers trying to iron out the sponsorship agreement.
Now, out of nowhere, "it won't be free." So basically they preannounced a sponsorship deal that never existed.
Also, it's fine to blame Capcom for the dev delays on SF2. But it was Microsoft, not Capcom, who announced at CES that SF2 would be available in first quarter of this year. So, for Greg to start passing the buck to Capcom at this point is pretty sleazy.
I like what Microsoft is doing with XBLA, but they are pissing off their partners and customers for no reason along the way, and that's pretty bush-league.
C. Grant @ Jul 20th 2006 6:45PM
Peter Moore said at CES: "Texas Hold 'Em will be the first fully sponsored game on Xbox Live Arcade, sponsored by our partners at (River Vail ?)." I'm guessing the confusion spawned from the supposed sponsorship, but I don't know if he ever said it would be free.
Would be great if you could gamble MS points ... they're not *real* money, right?!
SuicideNinja @ Jul 20th 2006 6:47PM
"I have a lot of respect for Nintendo, I'm a personal fan"
You would NEVER hear a Sony rep say that. Speaking of, when is Sony going to provide details on their 4th PS3 dimension of price online service? I'm sure they'll have an XBLA copy and claim that it's been in development for a decade and it's totally original and not gimmicky. Still, it will be good times checking out what's available between "arcades".
I don't think competition with the Wii will be an issue. I don't really see Nintendo offering any original games via there service, even though they would like to. It may be a while before that's in their cards. I'm still all for playing legal retro (and upgraded) Nintendo games. Woo!
Bill Gates @ Jul 20th 2006 6:48PM
"Lumines Live! is the perfect example of quality original titles on Xbox Live Arcade."
Greg, the game was on the PSP before. You're fired.
Contra666 @ Jul 20th 2006 6:49PM
@ C.Grant
It was River Belle wasn't it?
DeeKay @ Jul 20th 2006 6:55PM
"Geometry Wars was never a surprise to us. We knew that Geometry Wars would be our Halo. And it has ended up being that."
Wow, he actually thinks that? I never would've thought Geometry Wars would be that popular. What do you guys think?
Robotic House Plant @ Jul 20th 2006 6:56PM
It was originally rumored Texas Hold'em had a sponsor. I wonder if that's still the case because it's no longer free. Perhaps they pulled out.
Contra666 @ Jul 20th 2006 7:04PM
I'm pretty sure it was this website sponsoring the game:
http://www.riverbelle.com/
copa @ Jul 20th 2006 7:08PM
"I don't know if he ever said it would be free."
Chris, check your own site's coverage of CES:
http://tinyurl.com/om75b
Microsoft even had people on Major Nelson's show stressing that not too many other games would be free going forward, because they didn't want to get expectations up that there was going to be a lot of free content on XBLA.
Also interesting from the link above is that Microsoft, not the development studios, was promising that SF2 and Hold 'Em would be available by the end of March. This is really crappy because they have been dumping on Capcom and others over the last month for not understanding how much work goes into making an XBLA title, and setting false expectations.
Sean DL @ Jul 20th 2006 7:16PM
" I can tell you that we're going to be exhibiting leadership and not reacting to what they do. We are going to maintain leadership in this space because we are so far ahead."
Some how, I think those words are going to bit him in the butt...But props to him saying" the Sundance of games" That is something I've been saying for months now. But will it be MS, Nintendo or Sony that makes this a reality?
My money is on Nintendo(They have the money, an All Star Virtual Catalog to attract casual and hardcore gamers, unique controllers, and the quality control in there development teams to help the indys out) but both MS and Sony can do it too since they have as much money as(if not more in MS part) Nintendo would pour into indy funding.
But who ever makes the Sundance of games, won't win the console wars, but they will help the gaming word overall.
Measure @ Jul 20th 2006 7:37PM
Persistent bankroll free-money poker sites suck. It's as easy as hell for a player to give a ton of money to his friend just by betting a bunch and folding to the friend.
It creates a group of rich players who only allow their friends at the top.
Moogle @ Jul 20th 2006 8:09PM
I'm gonna have to give a mighty 'meh' on no free texas hold'em.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060717/1554247.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060615/112240.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060217/023253.shtml
The industry isn't what I'd call 'stable' at the moment. As much as it sucks, I wouldn't blame MS for the deal falling through.
WamBam @ Jul 20th 2006 8:11PM
It used to be my friends would come over to play GRAW, Halo or Oblivion... and then I showed them X-Box Live Arcade. Not everyone wants or can afford a 360 but the service might interest those who own a PC. Does anyone know if MS plans to roll out Live Arcade for Windows?
Enigma @ Jul 20th 2006 8:28PM
"Persistent bankroll free-money poker sites suck. It's as easy as hell for a player to give a ton of money to his friend just by betting a bunch and folding to the friend.
It creates a group of rich players who only allow their friends at the top."
I am sure they have perameters to get around your dubious smarts.
Also Major Nelson said in his blog that he is going to get to the bottom of this and ask WTF is going on.
Enigma @ Jul 20th 2006 8:29PM
"Also Major Nelson said in his blog that he is going to get to the bottom of this and ask WTF is going on."
On the "no longer free" thing.
jimthom36 @ Jul 20th 2006 8:36PM
Great article. I love the props he gives to nintendo and how positive he is about Arcade being proactive vs reactionary. Their the leaders and they did invent this concept, and its nice to have them stay positive and not rub it into anyones face.
I get what he's saying about lumines live -- what mizugucci is doing with Lumines live is totally new and different. I think he knows it's been on the psp (duh) but what they are doing with downloadable content and music artists is what he is talking abt.
I have to say i think this guy is a visionary. If u listen to major's podcasts it's obvious that he's a very smart guy and has a clear vision of where Arcade is going.
Finally, a creative guy in this business. It's about fricking time. Arcade is the itunes of games, and my friends are buying 360s because of arcade. I wish there were more of his type at microsoft frankly
N-ZERO @ Jul 20th 2006 8:40PM
SuicideNinja and others. I think that Microsoft will get destroyed by Nintendo in the downloadable games section.
"I don't see Nintendo coming up with any orginal games via their service"I respect your opinion SuicideNinja but its Nintendo and I think that they will have a hell of an easier time coming up with orginal titles then what Microsoft is coming up with. I mean when has Nintendo had a hard time coming up with orginal titles for any of their systems. Also that they have way more support then Microsoft in the retro section. I think that Microsoft doesn't have a chance.
Also Matt from ign.com the wii section has stated that it is hell of alot likely that they would have 20 to 30 retro games avialable for download at Wii's launch, with some developers confirming that they would have5 to 7 titles avialable for download. 20 to 30 retro titles at launch would all ready surpass XBLA's avialable downloadble games. Also with Nintendo's development teams I think they would have an hell of an easier time coming up with orginal downloadble titles.
My opnion is that Nintendo just has to much support and more creative development teams then what microsoft has. Also with cheap dev kits I think it would be easier to develop for Nintendo and more affordable to get your game out to the market. Also I think Nintendo will not charge as much as what microsoft is charging for their games.
N-ZERO @ Jul 20th 2006 8:53PM
Also I would consider XBLA as the Napster of games(Just not illegal) and Nintendo the itunes of games. I sat this cause Nintendo seems to have a more mass market priced console. Also from what they have stated of having diffrent sections of downloads for all the different genres of games, and section for retro and orginal titles. Also cause Nintendo has stated that they consider their virtual console to be the itunes of games. Also cause Nintendo will have more variety and can deliver more then what XBLA can.
Thats my 2 cents
J. McNair @ Jul 20th 2006 9:21PM
Well, here we go again.
1. I think our guy is a bit backwards on one point: Casual Gamers are a superset of Hardcore gamers. Many, MANY people "grew up on casual games". Even if the games weren't hardcore, as kids we played them with a "casual, just for fun" mindset, with exceptions. For example, everyone I knew beat Super Mario 3 -- it was an 80's Badge of Honour. Some of us decided to stick with it FTW, while others would rather a quick game of Tetris on the bus to work. Somewhere around mid-adolescence is where the certain gamers split off from the rest and go hardcore. Geeks of all kinds FTW.
2. An XBoy (or Zune, Argo, whatever) that could download specialised ports of certain XBLA games would rock my socks. This is something I really really expected Sony to bring for the PSP by now -- portable, downloadable, CHEAP, and FUN games. Throw the talented indie studios a bone, friends. They could have OWNED this. Heck, Nintendo could have if the DS had persisent storage and Nintendo actually SUPPORTED homebrew development. I swear, I don't know how Nintendo manages to be a liberally innovative and a bullheaded conservative company at the same time.
3. Despite all its quirks, and there are many, XBox Live is still the best console online experience. It will get even better as long as MS stays hungry. I am happy that XBLA is getting t3h luv it deserves. Now we need bigger hard drives (with sensible methods of transferring old data to a new drive).
4. What I would really like is an official supported homebrew dev solution. Yes, I would pay for it if it had a sufficient toolset, documentation, support and updates. Then there could be contests for the best games to get "published" on XBLA. Sony is surprisingly, ahead of them in that area considering that Microsoft is REPUTED to have some of the best development tools and support in the industry. If you don't believe me, Google for PS2 Linux and the Net Yaroze PS1. Also, Look up a little game called "Devil Dice".
--JM
Serious Kriss @ Jul 20th 2006 9:47PM
@27 jimthom36
"Arcade is the itunes of games"
Nah, that would be Gametap.
Linkman2004 @ Jul 20th 2006 10:18PM
Microsoft needs to realize that they aren't the inventors of downloadable game services. Anybody remember a little SNES accessory called the Sattelite? It downloaded games to little flash cartridges you could buy, and they even had a somewhate episodic version of ALTTP.
Another product like this was for the Genesis. This one allowed you to download games through your cable lines.
And why neither of these really took off, they deserve the credit of being the inventors of this type of service.
And for those thinking they're won't be original titles on the Virtual Console, Matt Casamassina said he's actually seen several original titles for the Virtual Console that are in development.
Well, that's my rant of the day.
Sean DL @ Jul 20th 2006 10:25PM
"An XBoy (or Zune, Argo, whatever) that could download specialised ports of certain XBLA games would rock my socks."
Kinda like how the DS will be able to play every game in the Virtual Console catalog via a SD card and a memory card cart to place in the Game Boy slot?
That's a thing that Nintendo hinted at a long while ago....
chris3116 @ Jul 20th 2006 10:37PM
The Wii is the winner. You can play all the Midway and Namco arcade games on compilation. If I want to play on Pac-Man, I use the Namco 50th Anniversary from the GC. I want to play Gauntlet or smash TV, I play them on Midway Arcade Treasures.
Pac-Man cost $5 on XBLA. I pay $1.42 for the game on the compilation on GC. Namco 50th cost me $20 Canadian for 14 games.
Remember the Wii is fully backwards compatible to GC games.
My money is on the Virtual console. I want to see their new games.
J.Goodwin @ Jul 20th 2006 10:46PM
Yeah, but can you play Gauntlet online with four friends spread all over the planet with full voice support?
No, you can't. That's why some of us are willing to pay for it again.
trooper11 @ Jul 21st 2006 1:10AM
N-ZERO,
I dont really understand what evidence you have that the xbla developers are less creative then what nintendo could provide for its virtual console. if its just your feeling, then thats fine, I cant argue against a feeling you have. But I wont see any evidence till Nintendo actually shows me something. The more and more I hear about XBLA games coming down the road, the more Im impressed with the creativity and variety I will have access to. Sure I love retro games, but Im more interested in original titles, games I cant get anywhere else.
Now I do agree that nintendo will get its share of good original titles, Im just saying that xbla could keep up with them. Now as for retro games, it does sound like nintendo will have more to offer unless microsoft has a plan for larger updates sometime soon. But retro isnt something I care much for, I have all the old gaming I want via emulation, although there will be those select few that I just have to get.
Dirk Dorkelson @ Jul 21st 2006 2:36AM
J.Goodwin,
Right on, man. I was going to post this, too. Microsoft isn't simply offering retro games on XBLA. They're updating the graphics, adding new features (achievements, global leaderboards) and game types (including multiplayer) and providing it all through a great unified, easy-to-use OS. (Uh, has Nintendo ever designed a console OS?)
And it's cheap.
I think the Wii will have some cool retro games as well as some great original games eventually. (Although whoever brought up the point about cheap Nintendo devkits missed somewhere along the line that M/soft's are supposedly somewhat cheap, too. And develoopers have had them for longer.)
But I haven't heard a peep out of Nintendo about whether I'm going to be able to play co-op Mario Bros., teaming up to earn achievements with my friends all the way on the other side of the country while we chat over our headsets. Or what Nintendo's version is going to cost. Or what the interface is going to be. But you can bet that if they replicate that BS friend code thing from the DS that I'm going to be spending a lot more time on Xbox Live than I am on Wii Connect (though I'll admit that's a great play on words).
rijit @ Jul 21st 2006 3:52AM
LOL! Funny how everyone is about Wii being the winner and Nintendo has yet to even ship a console. The Wii may end up outselling the Xbox 360. i could care less. I am enjoying my games RIGHT NOW in 65 inches of pure 1080i HD! I quit playing my PS2 because it did not offer HD, right after I got the HD adapter for the original Xbox ;)
Microsoft is the clear winner of the next-gen console wars period..... for now. If they handle things right they could very well win completely but let's get real here, it is Microsoft, they will eventually do something to mess things up. For now though, enjoy an awsome system!
Rob Holiday @ Jul 21st 2006 6:56AM
How is Nintendo's WiiConnect24 Supposed to work? Downloading games that is. I don't beleive the Wii has a hard drive, only flash memory storage? How are you supposed to save all the games you want to download? Will you only get to play while connected to WiiConnect24? You won't be able to play 'offline'?
Isurus (at work) @ Jul 21st 2006 8:17AM
""Geometry Wars was never a surprise to us. We knew that Geometry Wars would be our Halo. And it has ended up being that."
Wow, he actually thinks that? I never would've thought Geometry Wars would be that popular. What do you guys think?"
I think he means that he knew it would be the "Halo" of Xbox Live Arcade, not the Halo of the 360 as a whole. I think that would have been a fair assumption. It is quite clear after spending some time with it that it is a great game and it was the most widely known of non-retro arcade game that was available at launch. Plus, many people liked the retro geo wars that was included with PGR 2.
KR @ Jul 21st 2006 9:32AM
Ugh. Where to start? I'll guess I'll start with Enigma
"And as for the BC, MSFT has said many of times, itis up to the publisher/developer of the games to make them BC for the 360, not MSFT. So blame the developer/publisher of Psychonauts."
You are 100% wrong. Microsoft is the ONLY company working on the backwards compatibility. "MSFT has said many times?" Uh, no they haven't. Why do you think people who MADE games like Psychonauts are calling for MS to work on it? Why would they do that if it were up to the publisher? They would just do it themselves. Many publishers probably WITH it WERE up to them because we'd probably see better results. In fact, the developer of Psychonauts was practically THROWING themselves at Microsoft, offering to help...and MS turned them down. Haven't you heard of MS' so called "Emulation Ninjas?" Those are the people who work for Microsoft that are responsible for getting backwards compatibility maximized. Your statement was completely incorrect.
chris3116, you can "put your money" on the Wii VC all you want...I'm sure it'll be successful. But the XBLA rep is correct - retro is fine, but after a while the appeal of being able to play the same old, same old Kid Icarus and Metroid is going to wear off, compared to the appeal of playing 4 player online Gauntlet with voice chat, or Texas Hold 'Em, or 2 player online SFII or Mortal Kombat 3 with voice support, or...you get the idea.
N-ZERO @ Jul 21st 2006 10:48AM
Trooper11 and KR all though you guys do bring up some good points. My opnion is that Nintendo's VC will be better.
Trooper11 the proof I have that Nintendo is more creative and has more creative development teams is the games that they have made. I mean look at Nintendo and all the great orginal games they have created. Mario, Mario Party, Brain Training , Pikmin, Zelda, Starfox, Yoshi's island, Super Mario Strikers, Super Smash Bros, Legend of Zelda: Four Swords,Donkey Kong,Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong raciong. Each of those games offer something new and orginal. I mean Microsoft doesn't have that much of a track record of making orginal games and making an old genre feel new. I mean I can't think of one orginal game they have created themselves. Also we all know that nintendo is also going to have other Developers like Sega, Hudson, and developers who just want to make a great game. Thats why I think that nintendo will have more orginal titles on their VC then XBLA Trooper11.
KR who has said that Nintendo won't offer voice chat with their VC games or let people play online with their friends if the game is multiplayer. Also I think Zelda:Four swords 4 player online with voice chat would be alot better then Gauntlet and i think nintendo will make a VC Four swords version with those campbilities. That game was made specifically for 4 player action. Also I have no doubt in my mind that nintendo will offer these options. Nintendo themselves says that the VC is of great importance for the Wii to sell many consoles. I mean Nintendo is putting alot of focus on this. Also with Matt from ign.com has said to expect 20 to 30 VC games at launch with Wii. If that doesn't mean their serious then I don't no what is. FRom the time the Wii launches it will have more games avialable on their VC then what XBLA has. So I think that they are very serious about their VC being able to bring new orginal titles and retro games with improvements. i also think that games will cost cheaper on the VC then they do on XBLA. I mean Microsoft is really ripping people off. Did you know it costs 10 bucks to make a wireless Xbox360 controller and they charge 50 bucks for it at stores. Sure they have to make profit but I would think that 30 bucks would be a better price. So I have no doubt in my mind that Nintendo will have a better price point in mind for their VC and also for their software as well as their hardware. I think XBLA doesn't have a chance agaisnt the VC with Nintendo's extremly creative development teams and their support on the VC. They have to many retro games for Microsoft to compete with them and they have more creative dev teams then what Microsoft has. I mean if you ask any video game company what would they give for Nintendo's dev teams they would probably say their house. Trooper11 and KR I respect your opnions and have nothing against you just giving my 2 cents.(Didn't want a Xbox fanboy to attack me and yell STFU N-ZERO your retarded and Nintendo sucks it happens alot here)
N-ZERO @ Jul 21st 2006 10:55AM
Sorry for ranting people and my spelling and grammer are kind of bad sorry for that too I was typing very fast. Guess thats what you get for ranting. Sorry about that.
trooper11 @ Jul 21st 2006 12:18PM
well here is where I still dont understand your thinking N-ZERO
Alot of the original titles on XBLA arent even being developed by microsoft itself. So you cant make a blanket statement that VC will obviosuly be better becuase of course nintendo is more creative then anyone else could ever be. All Im saying is that your underestimating microsoft's own potential and that of its third parties which, by the way, includes Sega.
and as far as the 20-30 VC titles at luanch goes, well thats all well and good, but I bet most, if not all, of that will be just retro titles, nothing new. Like Ive said before, Im more willing to pay for new titles then old ones and there are only a small few old titles that id consider buying again. As far as price goes, I think thier retro games iwll be cheaper and most of thier original stuff will be just as much as xbla original titles. I mean what reason would nintendo have to charge less?
And what does a controller price have anyhting to do witht his disscussion. Besides, you really shouldnt try and use that to help your argument, since the precious Wii remote will be selling for alot more then it costs to make, just as the PS3 controller will and as have controllers always have been.
And I think your trying to say that Microsoft hasnt done anyhting original while everything nintendo does is. That is just a point we wil have to disagree on. I think halo was pretty original, wether you liked it or not, it brought some new elements to the genre. Now of course Nintendo will have more big franchises then microsoft, they have been at it for much longer, but again, I think your underestimating microsoft. I like the direction they are going in, and Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Lets just see what they can come up with.
N-ZERO @ Jul 21st 2006 1:00PM
trooper11 Halo was not created by Microsoft so you can't say that its there orginal title. It belongs to Bungie. Microsoft paid bungie to make Halo exclusive to them. Also i added the controller price to show how much money they try to ripp off of people. Sure its obvious that Nintendo will charge more for their wireless controller but i think they won't ripp off people the way Microsoft has. I expect nintendo to price their controller for 30 bucks. But I mean charging 50 is just a plain ripp off. Did you know Microsoft loses 150 bucks every 360. How do you think they plan on getting their money back. The controllers. To play with four players at your house you need four controllers. So you need to buy 3 more which comes to the sum of guess what 150 bucks. Their ripping people off. That is my point. Microsoft will charge way more for their stuff and I think that Nintendo will be more considerate of people and charge less and a better price for their downloadable software.
My other point of Nintendo having a great dev teams. I mean look Nintendo by itself I will make great orginal titles for download and with help from their other third party companies also making orginal downloadable titles I think they will have more variety in their VC then what Microsoft has on their XBLA. I mean sure they have some great games on XBLA but I think that Nintendo will have more great games and more variety. Your expecting every VC game to be retro but Nintendo themselves have said that they are creating orginal titles for the VC and even Sega and hudson have said that also. I mean their is just to much support behind Nintendo on their VC. Look you have Nintendo themselves who will make great games and then you have Sega and Hudson and then indie developers.
Look to make my point I want you to give me 3 games that are orginal titles made by only Microsoft in XBLA. The reason i say this is because Microsoft has to be exibiting leadership to third party developers so they can see what type of games will work good with the service. I think nintendo will be doing just that as they have done for many years with the NES,SNES,N64,
and the Gamecube.I think they will be the ones at the top because of this. Also not everything nintendo does is orginal. I was trying to state that alot of their games are orginal titles. Some of the stuff Nintendo does can be considered utterly retarded, but they have done many orginal things that Microsoft fails to do. Microsoft relies to much on third party support. This generation will have to be up to the First party to bring the exclusives. Many third party are just going to have multiplatform games. Nintendo has their AAA first party games, Sony has some AAA first party titles, I haven't seen one game from Microsoft game studios that is a AA or AAA title. If you do know of some then please name some to me. Halo doesn't count cause its created by Bungie not Microsoft. If they wanted Bungie could just cancel Halo 3 and it would never come out. It belongs to them just like Gears of Wars belongs to Epic games.
If Microsoft really wants to compete with nintendo in the downloadable games section they're are goin to have to haul ass. Same with Nintendo and Sony with their online service. if they want to compete with Microsoft with their multiplayer online service they are going to have to haul extreme ass cause let me say that microsoft has a good online service just they need to perform exetremely well to compete with the variety that Nintendo will offer with their downloadable titles.
N-ZERO @ Jul 21st 2006 1:10PM
OOOO crap I have never ranted this much before. Sooo sorry for ranting. Also trooper11 I know what your saying about Microsoft about not to underestimate them but you have to think the same about Nintendo. If you think they aren't going to have as much orginal titles on their VC then your underestimating them. nintendo and their third parties have alot and I mean alot of potential to create orginal titles. Microsoft does too just they need to concentrate on the games they make a little more and come out with some AAA titles by themselves and no help from another company like Bungie or Epic games.
Sir Fragula @ Jul 21st 2006 9:16PM
N-ZERO; I love how you think Nintendo is more creative when... well... how often do they come up with new IP? Hardly ever.
Also, what's the appeal of Virtual Console when you can just go to a torrent site and download their entire NES/SNES/N64 back catalogue in an hour or so? It's new IP that sells systems, not old stuff you can download free of charge.
trooper11 @ Jul 22nd 2006 12:59AM
no Im not saying Nintendo wont have any original titles, Im just saying XBLA will have just as many.
About the original titles, your being awfully picky seeing how you could say that about every microsoft game. Microsoft started with 0 in house develoeprs, they had to aquaire companies that they could turn into in-house developers. They didnt have a choice since they jumped into he console scene at a point where they had no time to build in-house from scratch like Nintendo has. I think its a bit unfair since Microsoft is taking these develoeprs they buy out like RARE or Bungie (not bought but pretty close) and adapt them for thier platform. I guess we will just have to disagree on that point.
So since you want to exclude any team that was originally with a seperate company, then that doesnt leave me with anything. And actually, Microsoft doesnt have to lead the pack as far as games go, they have shown that if you provide the right platform and tools, developers will seek you out. Even if you deny the 1st party titles, Microsoft got plenty of 3rd party support and even more support for this generation, thats where your underestimating Microsoft.
You keep throwing out Sega and Hudson as big 3rd party supports of VC, well I can throw out Sega and Ubisoft, 2 of the big devs that have expressed interest in developing original titles for XBLA. Look, I think Nintendo will be able to outdo Microsoft on the retor side simply becuase of thier huge catalogue of titles, but original titles will be pretty neck and neck. But your argument or mine are specualtion since VC isnt out yet, so we are both blowing smoke basically lol.
I may end up getting a Wii for VC once the games are there, I just want to wait and see, Im not goign to just assume itll be perfect, thats a mentality i try to avoid.
N-ZERO @ Jul 22nd 2006 1:07PM
trooper11 i agree that we have to wait and see because right now I can't automatically say that VC will beat the XBLA cause it hasn't come out yet. So we are basically just blowing smoke lol. But I was trying to say is this generation the first party will have to rely on themselves to get out exclusive content. Bungie could easily be offered a new deal with a different compny lets say Sony,Ubisoft, and even EA to create a title for them and that would leave Microsoft dead in the water. Nintendo is really getting alot of support and alot of love from Square-enix so sony watch out. I mean nintendo is getting dragon-quest exclusive at launch, final fantasy III exclusive on their handheld the nintendo ds and rocket slime from dragon quest on ds and they are even working together to make Mario hoops 3 on 3 for the ds. they are getting alot of support from third parties this gen. I also understand why you'll wait and see. I mean XBLA has already proven that they can get out orginal titles and some retro titles. Lets just hope that nintendo will bring all its retro goodness and all of its orginality to create some orginal games. But I hope that one day that microsoft can one day create some great first party titles all by itself and build on that. I mean it didn't take sony that long to create some great first party titles by its second generation. lets just hope that microsoft can do the same thing.