I'm really, really surprised at just how crippled it appears (as far as load times go).

I mean, they've given it an additional RAM cart for pity's sake, and it's still that slow? I fear what it performs like without one.

"Also, no instant messaging support whatsoever."

That's not what the video said. It won't support instant messangers that don't support Opera. Aim Express doesn't even suport Firefox that well.

However, eBuddy.com only uses Javascript and supports all major browsers. It has support for MSN, MSN Classic, AIM, Yahoo, and Yahoo Beta.

http://www.ebuddy.com

I don't know if it works with the DS browser, but it should since it doesn't use Java or Flash.

I figure it's better than the browser the DS has now.

Yeah, that's right.

Eh, it does what it does. No more, no less. Like any technology, it will take a few months in the hands of the users to get tweaked and get some tips and tricks established.

People complained about 15 second load times on the PSP, but they don't mind waiting 3 minutes for a web site to load. What morons!

Three minutes?!

What really bugs me is that most websites haven't started providing 'lite' versions of their pages for browsing through alternative methods; PSP, DS, cellphone, et al.

I expect to see a flood of DS Browser versions of sites, condidering the fanbase this hits home with.

http://my.opera.com/DotEd for more info btw

Clint: 15 seconds load time? What PSP game were you playing?

Sony wishes they had 15 second load times. Even some of the fastest loading games take upwards of a minute, and some such as Smackdown vs Raw can clock in at over 6 minutes.

3 minutes for a page does suck, but if it is something like CNN with all its various junk, I can see why. At least with the browser you can choose what sites you go to, such as going to the CNN Mobile page which is much more streamlined and likely to load better.

Ultimately, there are are a few jabs that a PSP owner could make at the DS, but loadtimes IS NOT ONE OF THEM. :)

i think it looks awesome. i won't be spending extensive time on the net on my DS, but it will come in handy when i need it. if you're worried about three minutes, DON'T GET IT, geezus. just gives you something else to bitch about.

How pathetic. DS'ers should evolve and get a PSP (it has a built in browser).

Also of note for the uninformed (aka joystiq'ed folks): The PSP has a lot of great games, as many if not more as the DS has. Here are some reviews of both systems games:

http://psp.ign.com/index/reviews.html

http://ds.ign.com/index/reviews.html

When people say the PSP doesn't have games or doesn't have many games or doesn't have many good games or anything of the sort they are in fact lying.

CNN doesn't take 3 minutes to load on my PSP. It takes a few seconds. Also...I haven't had a problem with load times on the PSP. I start the game and then I put the PSP to sleep. When I start to play it again there is zero load times. Most people play it this way anyways.

"I mean, they've given it an additional RAM cart for pity's sake, and it's still that slow? I fear what it performs like without one."

It doesn't perform at all. There isn't enough RAM in the DS to run a web browser, hence the addon.

Load times would be better if the user actually went to the mobile versions of sites. However, most websites don't have that alternative.

It's not the fault of the DS browser if a site isn't optimized for handheld or mobile systems. It takes more work for the web developer to make the site compatable and most feel it isn't worth it to capture the (very) few extra users.

.ed,

You seriously think that around, what, 10 to 14 million DS users out there will convince the vast majority of site owners and operators to create "lite" versions of their sites soley because of the DS browser?

Can you say "dillusional"? If this was a big issue for web sites, it would have been done long ago for cell phones and PDAs. Nintendo's fanbase will not singlehandedly change any of this.

However, I do have to agree with Babylonian. Why these "lite" sites have yet to appear in the wake of portable media devices that can access them is a head scratcher indeed.

Having the same amount or more games rated higher on one system doesn't mean that those games are better. Look at the sales. Only 3 games have made it past the million maker on the PSP. Over 12 have done it on the DS.

The DS browser to take 3 minutes to load CNN is disgusting. But I heard from a little birdie it takes 12 seconds to load FoxNews ;)

oh wait, is it connecting to an Opera proxy server for the reformatting?
ie. teh DS sends the url of the website you're visiting to the proxy server, then the proxy server loads the target website, render it in DS-friendly resolution, then sends it back to the DS
If the proxy server's in Japan, it's gonna take a helluva long time to load any website.

Not to mention they may be tracking every URL you're visiting.

Uhm... whoever said the PSP browser was fast is just trying to defend their expensive purchase...

PSP - built in web browser
- must be withing 10 feet (or closer of wifi spot)
- slow loads
- terrible input

DS - optional web browser by Opera
- nearly 100 foot WiFi range
- acceptable load times
- touch screen / stylus input / keyboard

#15 I was thinking the same thing. Let's wait and see what happens when that server is in the US.

AND I WILL FIND A WAY TO INSTANT MESSAGE ON THE THING.

...even if I have to write it myself

Hey Clint, are you serious? So, if I want to play my PSP I have to anticipate forty-five minutes in advance just so I can turn it on and put it to sleep to make sure that I don't die of boredom in the load time interm? Wow. That may just qualify as the stupidest thing I've heard all day, but then, it's early. I'm sure you'll come back with something equally pedantic.

From what I see there, nothing really makes me want to purchase it. Though I'm sure it'll be available for SC and other devices, likely even prior to launch.

The PSP's WiFi range is nearly 100 feet (it works throughout my home and outside in our yard.

Most PSP games stream content (aka no load times).

I prefer the anaolg input of my PSP to my DS's itsy-bitsy stick of plastic. The DS does not have a keyboard.

Hey .ed,

I'd be interested in seeing if the instant messangers on Ebuddy.com actually do work on Opera DS. And how do PDA versions of sites load compared to real versions.

http://slashdot.org/palm
http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/avantgomain.asp

This site has a list of pda-friendly sites:
http://pdaportal.com/

Seriously, the fanboyism in here is making me puke in my mouth a little bit. Grow the hell up.

I'm hearing essentially the exact same crap that kids were saying in middle school regarding N64 vs. PSX. Play what you like. Who the hell cares. Damn.

"I start the game and then I put the PSP to sleep. When I start to play it again there is zero load times. Most people play it this way anyways."


Are you SERIOUS? You can't be. This HAS to be a joke.

You anticipate the painful loads, like you would a punch to the face, and you dodge them through this method? And then you DEFEND it? Jebus, man.

You know how I avoided this problem when I had a PSP? I didn't buy games that took ages to load. THAT seemed to do the trick. Most people play it this way, anyway.

HINT: the PSP's browser supports flash.

It's like surfing with 56k again.
This iteration of the Opera browser doesn't look too promising. It has to get the essentials down pat (such as email and instant messengers) to get some success. Maybe even MySpace.

I just hope the software can be upgradeable. I don't want multiple Opera DS carts lying around.

No matter how bad it is it's still internet access for less than the amount it costs me a month for my PC. I know that the PSP Browser is free, but I'd have to buy a $250 system to get it. For $163 to get maybe the best handheld system ever, and access to webpages is worth waiting a minute or two.

@ Zoe K

with pocket PC's, if you were an owner and spent more than 30 minutes ever looking, you could find thousands of sites and portals deicated tot he screen size of PDAs, and they still exist today. But the pocket PC was a hit with businessmen and attorneys... not necessarilly a heavy surfing crowd.

With the gaming community being so tightly integrated with the gadget community, as well as the Opera Community that this also appeals to, you are looking at 3 demographics taht spend hours a day online...

you can call me delusional... but I'm far from wrong.

"HINT: the PSP's browser supports flash."


Good for you and your PSP. I'm curious, though, what does this have to do with Mr. Summa's post?

Reminds me of using a browser on a wireless PDA. It's functional, but it's not a great experience.

Either the everything is too small, if setup to fit an entire website to the screen, or your limited to content that can fit the screen, or you end up having it real size and have to scroll all over the place. Plus you lose all the features to which you're accustomed on a typical browser.

I feel the same way with the PSP, although the larger screen certainly helps.

More often than not, you're seeking content designed for the screen size.

Zoë K.

my word of the day for you is alternatives

I've been looking forward to this, but now that I actually see it used, I'm not so sure I want it. I know I'm NOT going to get the browser if it's more than 20 bucks.

The only reason I want it is to be able to check things on the web for a minute or two (email, directions, phone number) without having to boot up my computer. I'm not going to be sitting on the toilet with my DS reading Slashdot on it.

"my word of the day for you is alternatives"


What are you currently typing this shlock on? Your PC web browser? Your PDA? Your cell phone? Your... *cough*... Dreamcast? It's funny how the first and only alternative you come up with is the PSP, in this, a post about the DS' web browser.

I've used the PSP's browser. I've yet to use the DS' browser. My personal opinion is that they both look a bit shoddy, Flash or not. Though, you're entitled to your opinion same as I am mine... like assholes, you know.

It's just of MY opinion that the fanboyism is a bit stale.

First, there are a ton of PDA pages out there, but you do have to know how to find them and use them. Forget pretty images, your going to just be looking at content.

Second, I own a PSP and a DS. The PSP in my opinion is dead. I am selling off my games and unit because Sony isn't putting any effort into the system. 3rd party developers have all but overlooked the platform. Sony recently announced there will be NO keyboard accessory for the PSP. To me this is the death knell sounding. The PSP had great potential, but it is going to go the way of the Zodiac.

If you get myspace to develop DS friendly pages, or change the way they are rendered based on the browser, everyone else will follow. Don't think for one second that Nintendo and OPERA aren't interested in making that happen. Nintendo is big on socialization, Opera is big on becoming the next Mozilla/Firefox. If you deliver myspace to the masses on the DS, and let the kids (and hip adults) access this all through a WIFI at the local Starbucks, you better believe that advertisers will eat this up and you will see a dramatic shift in the way pages are served. The mechanism for determing the browser already exists, anyone who knows HTML knows that. It just takes a community of users to effect a change.

"I start the game and then I put the PSP to sleep. When I start to play it again there is zero load times. Most people play it this way anyways."

@#19 and #24:
I think what he's trying to say is that you deal with the loading time once when you first start playing a game but from then on if you just put it in sleep mode you don't have to sit through the loading time when you play again. If so, it's still a weak argument but not the argument you thought he was making.

Zoë K, you asked how my mention of the PSP's support of Flash had anything to do with this article and I responded by stating that it is a good alternative (heck it has a built in browser).

This makes you shoot expletives like assholes? Maybe you should see a doctor about that insecurity.

ok, if the browser can use Gmail, which is AJAX btw, then it can use www.meebo.com, www.ebuddy.com or www.iloveim.com BECAUSE those are also all AJAX. So we will have IM on the go thnx to opera.

caller, my dear, dear caller,

Read it again:

"Though, you're entitled to your opinion same as I am mine... like assholes, you know."

Now give it some thought. Have we not heard the related figure of speech:

"Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one and they all stink."

Though, you can think what you like about what I said, obviously. Your enterpretation leads to your opinion of me about my insecurity. Again, like assholes.

Quotes by .ed
"PSP - built in web browser
- must be withing 10 feet (or closer of wifi spot)"

wow i dont know where you got that,
but ive been able to use it 100'+ through walls!

"- slow loads"

you must not own a psp
because since firmware 2.7 the browser has been a lot faster.

"- terrible input"

yes the DS is better in this area
but if you use the psp enough
it becomes like second nature to you

I don't understand how it can take 3 minutes when my phone only takes thirty seconds to a minute.

Does Opera DS use tabs? There's nothing that shows if you can have multiple windows open at the same time. That would remove all possibility of using any instant messangers, even if the tech behind them is supported.

actually for meebo and iloveim they both contain everything in one window, as in all your im msgs are in the one browser window. its quite phenomenal actually.

Well, the video specifically said Meebo doesn't work, so that's why I was wondering about Ebuddy.com. I've never heard of ILoveIM.com though. Hopefully one of them works.

If Flash and Java (but I don't know about Java yet) are not supported, AJAX likely won't be either. Which would suck.

But there is something no one is taking into consideration. This is the FIRST ITERATION of a browser for the DS. Someone did mention that it won't be long before the inherent user tweaking takes place, and that's a good chunk of it. This isn't the end-all-forever. There will be updates, there will be alternatives, there will be people inspired by this who will have better ideas and the means to implement them.
It's not like having a crappy first version of a browser will kill the DS, which already has so much going for it. I'm sure other people can see the potential in a device that has a small footprint, dual screens, tactile input, free wireless capability, unit-to-unit local-area communication, and two cartridge slots to work with.
I won't even bother to call the PSP into question. It was a cool idea, but sadly, what it has doesn't make up for what it won't be given.

The only reason why I'd buy this browser would be if it had the ability to listen to streaming music. I don't think it does, so I'll stick to my laptop in the living room and pc in my room.

Oh and the psp vs ds wars are getting old.

PSP load times 6 minutes? Do you physically abuse your PSP?

They can all live together. I rarely play single player DS (apart from the few short hours it took to finish Mario), but I play loads with my friends, the multiplayer is the DS' real distinction. As for my PSP I use it more in general, watching stuff, poking homebrew, loads and loads of light games (homebrew + emulation), and the occasional decent PSP game.

Though a non-homebrew PSP isn't worth much, if you know how to use your PSP, you'll love it as much as your DS or more.

But that's if you can't afford both, in which case I recommend DS, unless you love the extra features of the PSP or the franchises on there (still waiting on MGS and FF).

Will the Opera DS cart be able to download updates? If so, terrific. If not, I'm not about to buy more than one Opera DS cart.

All the same, I'm really looking forward to this. For news checks and basic email, this will be great.

http://www.google.com/xhtml, then goto mobile search.

for all your mobile sites which should also work with the DS browser. and to reiterrate previous posts, if the opera proxy server is in japan (which it sounds like) everything is going to take an eternity to load. once they make a us one, it should be significantly faster especially on mobile pages.

AJAX is based on Javascript and XML, not Java or Flash. Since Opera DS is based on parts of Opera 8.5, and that version did support AJAX, one would assume DS Opera would support it.

And the video said Gmail worked and that's AJAX. Though they do have an HTML version, so that might have been what was shown.

I'd like to hear from those that actually have the browser though.

actually, i think the biggest kick i'll get out of this browser is the ability to finally play nintendo wifi online... the way my wifi system works at school is that you gotta log on through a web interface from the device you're using to register the mac address onto the network. with this, i'd imagine i can finally get some wifi action goin on campus... not during classes *cough* of course ^_^

the next useful thing i'd use this for is a translator. i'm hoping that the browser if released int he us supports japanese characters. i take japanese classes which would be more helpful to me if i had a translator (and not have to lug my laptop).

also, for the tech savvy, you could create your own portals to accomodate the nintendo ds itself... though it is completely gimped due to lack of java support/flash support, you could find develop web modules that'd do things like tell you the weather, give you rss feeds, webmail, etc. to view in the nintendo ds itself. for me, it'd be useful to have all those and a timer to let me know when the busses come around the campus (they have a gps thing goin on but its all in java so the challenge would simply be to program an interpreter that'll post an update onto a html webpage rather than trying to see the java applet--assuming this browser doesn't have java support, didn't look into it that far yet).

so the bottom line? i think this browser would be most useful for people who know how to design websites for reasons stated above. other than that, i'd imagine it probably wouldn't be worth it otherwise... (unless you're trying to wifi game in an online environment that requires html authentication).