360 : achievements :: PS3 : entitlements
by Christopher Grant 
{ Jul 31st 2006 at 10:35AM }
Let's make this clear: we have no problem with Sony coveting, with lustful eyes, the better aspects of their competition. Adding Wiimote functionality to the Dual Shock is a-ok by us ... it's a value add (removing rumble, that's another story). Adding a robust online service, that's great for gamers. Fleshing out that service with a system similar to Microsoft's (addictive) achievement system, also good news for us. But naming those achievements "entitlements," not so hot. According to Dan Hsu on the July 19th EGM Live podcast, "Sony's looking into it and they want to call them 'entitlements.' They want to basically rip off the same idea Microsoft has and just giving you different rewards for playing through their games."
Not only is the name a little close for comfort (how about PlayStation Life), but the definitional differences between the two words are irreconcilable! An achievement is defined as "the act of accomplishing or finishing," while an entitlement is defined as "the state of being furnished with a right or claim to something." I suppose the logic could be that if we trudge though a bunch of crappy launch games, we'll be "entitled" to some sort of reward. Hardly the message Sony's trying to promote.
[Via Club Skill]
Listen - "they want to call them entitlements" (.mp3, about 10:30 in)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
OOOOPs @ Jul 31st 2006 10:42AM
joystiq ... your anti-sony spin on everything is getting annoying as hell .. this site is going to the sh!ts
Paul P. @ Jul 31st 2006 10:43AM
As a Libertarian, I am against entitlements.
Stoo @ Jul 31st 2006 10:44AM
"Every time we go down a path, we look behind and [Microsoft is] right there ..... I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own,....."
- Kaz Hirai on June 28th
Ultimatallica @ Jul 31st 2006 10:45AM
LOL, anyone with a 360 isn't going to care about entitlements, hardly anyone cares about achievements, and the people that do care aren't going to ditch them to try and build up their PS3 entitlements.
C. Grant @ Jul 31st 2006 10:47AM
Thanks OOOOPs. We'll make sure to give anything Sony a positive spin to keep our site from going to the shits.
Daveoc64 @ Jul 31st 2006 10:50AM
Yet more innovative features from Sony.
Entitlement sounds crap, sounds like a word used in DRM.
StratTastic @ Jul 31st 2006 10:51AM
So we usually call people with high gamerscores Achievement Whores or Gamerscore Whores. What will they be for the PS3? Entitlement Whores?! Sounds like something you find in the inner-city.
SuicideNinja @ Jul 31st 2006 10:51AM
Effing Sony. Let the competition have SOMETHING why don't you? I guess it doesn't matter, because the competition's respective motion-control and online-setup will probably be better anyway.
The achievement system was a great idea and great ideas should be shared, but this is getting old. I'm still going to see the PS3 as a single-player game console made by a company that I dislike. They've never done anything well online (including their horrendous websites), so their supposed online service doesn't exactly have me excited. "You get what you pay for." They can shove "entitlements" up their rears.
I'll have a PS3 when the price is reasonable, but I don't want it to be nothing more than an ugly Xbox 360 with a Playstation logo on it.
.ed @ Jul 31st 2006 10:52AM
i heard Wii has Anchovi-Mints
darryl @ Jul 31st 2006 10:53AM
More Sony hate and FUD... This entire post is about the use of a word! Are you guys really finding it that difficult to locate game-related material to post about? Achievements, entitlements, awards, whatever, who the hell cares...
A perfect example of Joysiq's hunger for anti-Sony/PS3 hate material.
32_Footsteps @ Jul 31st 2006 10:53AM
Well, thanks to the Sony E3 press conference, at least this isn't the worst abuse Sony has done to the English language (you have to admit, their definition of "historical" is much worse).
DBX00 @ Jul 31st 2006 10:53AM
Let me get this straight..Sony copied the feature of posting top players online and rewarding players for completing certain levels online. This seems like a feature that has been in online gaming (PC) realm forever and is just one of the many things that consoles are just now implmenting with their new online services. I hardly would say that Microsoft came up with the idea first, just that they were first to market with it in the console world which doesn't mean much in my opinion.
Ninegauger @ Jul 31st 2006 11:00AM
Here at Sony we're probably going to call them Playerscores, which is totally different, but at least is synonomous with Gamerscore unlike entitlements and the Xbox thing we ripped off.
Sony is so shameless in their copying... but they know what to copy. Movement controller- good copying! Achievements- good copying! Analog Thumbstick- good copying!
Martin @ Jul 31st 2006 11:00AM
Did you hear about PS3-Internet-attached-1440? Apparently its a service that the PS3 stays connected 1440 minutes a day and will download stuff even while you are "slumbering".
And their handheld is also getting an upgrade. The PSP pair screens. The top screen has a 'pressure sensitive screen'. They are planning on releasing a whole slew of games aimed at non gamers called "pressure-breed"
This stuff sounds so innovative, Sony is sure to be on top.
hey alex @ Jul 31st 2006 11:01AM
I'm of the mind the achievements are addictive. Microsoft really had the right idea with this one. I'm always comparing my scores to that of friends, and others, seeing if I managed to score more achievements. And I've gone back to games that I might not have otherwise, just to score additional achievements. There's something very fulfilling in managing to score all achievements for a game, especially if there's secret achievements involved.
So if I were Sony, I'd copy this too.
'Entitlements' is not the greatest name, but whatever. They could have gone with 'Awards' or 'Medals' or 'Rewards.' Entitlement sounds like a formal way of saying you're gaining land. But it also means a claim, so I guess I see what they were going after. Still, wouldn't be my first choice.
james f. @ Jul 31st 2006 11:03AM
Im not sure whats funnier. How indignant that the sony fanboys are or how lame this sony ripoff is. Proof positive that i need to somehow get a launch console to resell on ebay.
georgedakota @ Jul 31st 2006 11:04AM
joystiq is not the only blog site to post this so saying they are anti sony is a ridiculous cry for help from sony fanboys. Sony has been screwing everything up with the ps3 so its not like joystiq is searching hard all day to find negative press. If sony wins this next gen war it will be a bigger upset than bush winning two elections.
Scott Mackenzie @ Jul 31st 2006 11:04AM
Entitlement = not proper definition.
Sony, why not:
Playstation Accomplishments
Playstation Feats
Playstation Awards
Playstation Triumphs
Scott @ Jul 31st 2006 11:06AM
Is Sony marketing the PS3 to gamers or to welfare queens?
nootau @ Jul 31st 2006 11:07AM
While i am not a fan of Sony's PS3 plans, etc. I do think "entitlements" is just fine. An Entitlement could also be taken as "you are entitled to these points because of your skill at getting to a certain point" or even "We see you are skilled, so you are entitled to this ranking" etc, etc. To use the definition above " You are furished with the RIGHT to claim you are the best...blah blah"
sheesh. Big deal out of nothing. I think the word is a bit dry, but wrong? no.
jabbertrack @ Jul 31st 2006 11:08AM
... does anyone speak English at Sony?
that guy @ Jul 31st 2006 11:08AM
Give #13 (Martin) an entitlement for his hilarious post. Gold, buddy.
Bryan @ Jul 31st 2006 11:09AM
Ah come on, everyone's Entitleated to their own Gamersum.
KawF @ Jul 31st 2006 11:10AM
Microsoft stole achievments from Dice (Battlefield 2) released Jun 21, 2005.
Nintendo stole the wiimote from sega (Wikipedia): "Fishing Rod
A motion sensitive fishing rod was released for the few fishing games on the system."
Microsoft stole the internet from Al Gore and created Live.
Microsoft stole 3d graphics from Sony (Xbox came after PS2 and featured 3d graphics!)
Case closed.
Cabbage @ Jul 31st 2006 11:12AM
Even dedicated Sony fanboys (darryl, etc.) would have to admit that this is a blatant rip-off. The concept is a good one and will probably eventually be in every company's online service, but calling it something stupid that sounds very similar to Microsoft's "achievements" is just asking to be harassed.
Maybe Sony's PR people are getting checks from Microsoft and secretly hope to pull Sony down. There are dozens of things they could have called their version of achievements that wouldn't sound so... stolen. I personally would have preffered XP (experience points), reputation, easter eggs, etc.
Matt Paprocki @ Jul 31st 2006 11:13AM
"This seems like a feature that has been in online gaming (PC) realm forever"
Um, no. Completely different concept and execution. Achievements are awarded across all games, not individually. You accumulate a score based on your accomplishments which can then be viewed by any Live user. Your score continues to add up regardless of what games you play on the 360. It's A LOT more than leaderboards and the like.
MetaHuman @ Jul 31st 2006 11:13AM
Sorta like Connectivity and Interoperability.
Honestly, why the lame names? Who uses them?
Anyways, I don't think players need incentives for playing other than for fun. The arcades these days are full of ticket machines that don't do anything except train people to be gamblers and the tickets themself as well as what you trade them in for are hardly worth it at all.
Pretty soon you'll probably be able to BUY these 'achievements'.
FimShady @ Jul 31st 2006 11:15AM
Every rock musician in history was just copying Elvis. Really, how dare Sony use the word "video games"? The creators of "Tennis for Two" should sue them into oblivion. And the current controller is just a blatant rip of the joystick from the atari 2600.
Anti-Sony fanboys: You don't sound quite this silly, but you're getting there.
Ethan @ Jul 31st 2006 11:21AM
C. Grant. Dude, c'mon.
"trudge though a bunch of crappy launch games"
Knock it off with the anti-sony Chris. Just because you like Nintendo, you cant go around saying that Sony has a crappy launch lineup, when they dont. I mean, Resistance Fall of man is one of the most hyped titles around right now, lainch or not. Warhawk, became one of the most popular PS1 titles after coming out at launch. Heavanly sword is looking awesome. Rainbow six and Call of duty 3 are looking better than the 360 versions, and the 360 will already be on its second time around. I mean, just because they arent bringing out FF or MGS at launch, does not mean its a bad launch. I dont know what kind of mushrooms you've been doing, but you should stay away from that mario, he has been a bad influence on you.
Jason B @ Jul 31st 2006 11:27AM
The only way I can go along with the "Entitlements" idea is if you actually receive or unlock some game content that otherwise isn't available - costumes, weapons, avatars, cammo patterns, special videos, or maybe even Sony's equivalent of MS points. So if you receive an "Entitlement" you actually are entitled to claim those items. Otherwise, entitlements sounds like a dumb name to me as well.
-jason
Justin @ Jul 31st 2006 11:28AM
how about PS3 Repairations?
that guy @ Jul 31st 2006 11:28AM
Rainbow Six and CoD look better on PS3 Ethan? How do you figure? Ubisoft has already worked on 360 using the same engine in Rainbow Six with GRAW (which looked unbelievable). Now they're using the same engine and making a game with six months more development time. Why would anyone buy a PS3 for Rainbow Six Vegas and CoD3 when they could get a 360 for hundreds less and with a rumble controller and far superior online capabilities?
Oh and you have to be kidding about Warhawk.
Let's go Wii60
Karen @ Jul 31st 2006 11:29AM
Entitlements? There's much better choices then entitlements to describe completing tasks or finishing a game. I'm sure we'll soon see lists of better idea in this comments section then entitlements
Also the word entitlements has a negitive cognation to me. Every time I hear that word all I think about is a Canadian Politician who quit a job but still wanted a severance package. His explation for deserving a severance package even though he quit his job was "I'm entitled to my entitlements."
Rask @ Jul 31st 2006 11:31AM
Who knows, maybe Sony will benchmark the points and offer free music downloads every 5000 points or so.
I would love for MS to then havta follow suit and give free Xbox Points so that people could then get free arcade games/themes/pictures that they want but wouldn't ordinairily buy. Would be a great incentive for people to actually go out and buy more of the 60$ games.
DG @ Jul 31st 2006 11:34AM
Ugly American teenagers feel entitled to everything else, so why not capitalize on what has become the basic American ethos?
I for one welcome calling a spade a spade.
clo1_2000 @ Jul 31st 2006 11:37AM
I think sony should call them "Feats of Strength" and give everyone a free aluminum pole with each purchase of a PS3.
Ludwig Kietzmann @ Jul 31st 2006 11:38AM
Ethan:
Ignoring the fact that Chris did not say the PS3 has a crappy launch lineup, you're defending said lineup by pointing out that one game is "one of the most hyped", another was a great PS1 title and that Heavenly Sword is "looking" awesome... oh, and it hasn't even been confirmed for launch. Then, you go on to say that the PS3 versions of Rainbow Six and CoD 3 look superior to the 360 variants, yet neither have been finished or released. Not the most convincing argument I've seen.
Martin @ Jul 31st 2006 11:38AM
Come on, this is coming from people who call the ability to magically have the weapon you have in your hand change from a staff to a sword "real time weapon changing"
White Rose Duelist @ Jul 31st 2006 11:40AM
darryl - which is this, fear, uncertainty or doubt? I think you need a lesson in the language too.
I also think this is a stupid name, but I can't imagint his affecting PS3 sales in the slightest.
Annon @ Jul 31st 2006 11:43AM
It seems Sony do have a shame threshold afterall, they just couldn't bring themselves to completly rip off Microsoft!
And to think they had the cheek to suggest that they were the ones that MS Copy!!!
I think they have their heads in the sand and only get them out to see what the competition is doing!
They've backed themselves into a corner where there system has to do and have everything because it is so much more expensive than the others and all they are doing is adding costs to their already bloated PS3 project.
I bet the PS3 does not even break even over its whole lifespan and that means bye bye Sony as we know it today.
SUPERGHOST @ Jul 31st 2006 11:53AM
I would rather "achive" or earn something than be "entitled" or given something. So many good comments above, I am really interested to see what Sony will co-opt next? Sony's DL Tuesday! where classic games become avaulable for DL for 400-1200 SB (SonyBux)!
Thx MS for bringing home next-gen!
NitrogenB @ Jul 31st 2006 11:56AM
wow....fanboyish much Club Skill...nice unbiased news there.
"I suppose the logic could be that if we trudge though a bunch of crappy launch games.."
leave opinions to the comment section.
Ethan @ Jul 31st 2006 11:56AM
oh, my bad Ludwig, I was sure that he said "crappy launch games", but I guess my internet is different then everyone else's.
razer @ Jul 31st 2006 11:57AM
MS Achievment system is nothing like the Battlefield reference that was made. Achievements are tracked over all games and the total makes up your gamerscore. This is unique to MS(well until Nov) and the sony fans can try and justify this however they want but it is a blatent rip. Believe me every 360 fan is laughing his ass off at the second rate ideas the PS3 owners will have.. Entitlements??? LMAO
Btw - the achievement system is highly addictive and has been a huge success for anyone trying to downplay the signifigance of them. Whats next "Sony Live Arcade"??
m3mnoch @ Jul 31st 2006 11:57AM
dude! chris grant! what the hell is with the playstation hate?!?!?
i mean, you open the article with the terrible "Let's make this clear: we have no problem with Sony coveting...."
oh.
wait.
okay, so the post isn't a "hatin'" post. nevermind. but, still, sony totally didn't rip off m$!!!!! "the definitional differences between the two words are irreconcilable...."
um.
hold on, here.
crap. you're not talking about sony ripping off ms either, huh? damn.
you're talking about how the definition (not to mention the connotation) of the word "entitlement" makes "achievements" sound like some arrogant demand for points rather than something you earn through hard work? really? hmmm...
aha! but launches are NOT made up of crappy games!!!!
uh.
damn.
yeah. i guess they are. hmmm... oh yeah. and i guess you guys (rightly so) trashed the xbox 360's launch games too.
hmmm... okay. alright. but, whatever! just because all of the other dorks posting their comments didn't actually read the article doesn't mean that the rest of us don't read! i see how you are!
grant, you jackass. posting elevated, conversational material on a blog! i mean, what the hell, dude!!!!
jackass!
m3mnoch.
p.s. ahhhhhh.... it feels good to be back. let's hope it lasts.
DinnyHoon @ Jul 31st 2006 12:02PM
Joystiq, I like the way you tried your earnest to praise Sony ever-so-slightly before you went all Wii60 on Kenny K's ass again. Sigh.
darryl @ Jul 31st 2006 12:04PM
"Even dedicated Sony fanboys (darryl, etc.) would have to admit that this is a blatant rip-off."
Yes, I agree Microsoft ripped this off from the Hi-Score boards we've all seen since the late 70's, early 80's, displayed on most coin-op arcade machines. I forgot about that.
decadeofevil @ Jul 31st 2006 12:10PM
fighting back and forth will not change the fact that sony is really making some bad decisions.
even the sony fanboys know they arent going to get a ps3 right away, by the time u pay for the system and the extended warrenty and an xtra controller will there be any money left for a few games??? at this rate there will be armed guards at the ps3 kiosks at all game stops
Uchendu Nwachukwu @ Jul 31st 2006 12:15PM
Sony's motto seems to be "anything they [Microsoft] can do, we can do better."
Except they can't. Not by a long shot.
Floyd @ Jul 31st 2006 12:16PM
I think it is more about Sony copying and not making any innovation. While XBOX Live and the Wiimote are taking the industry further with innovation not just copying.
First we get Microsoft building a player based online service that works with addition of an Arcade Market slowly building. And we have Nintendo Wii and Wiimote (damn i miss the Revolution name) - with the ability to immerse the player with the wiimote.
All this and now Sony adding the Playstation 'Life', Entitlements, PSP connectivity, motion with a non dual-shock remote.
All I want is Innovative competition not blatant copying of other companies. If you are going to copy - atleast improve what you are going to copy beyond what is there. Not just 'okay, we are doing this and shove it at players to take.'
I was hoping Sony was going to blow away us with the PS3 -- like the ability to have badass display, letting 7 (again 7? not 8 but 7....) players at the same time wirelessly, ethernet ports and built-in wifi connection - then rather a clone of the PS2 remote would have been somethinng like -- Dual Shock 3 S style wireless controller. But this isn't happening... and we get a 600 bucks system that has immations of other products.
Good Go Sony.