Kojima to design Snake's Smash Bros. Brawl stage
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Jul 31st 2006 at 11:00AM }
Sparked by remarks from a Nintendo Power contributor, reports indicate that Hideo Kojima will design Snake's stage for Wii's Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Nintendo Power's Chris Hoffman recently commented, "If you want to talk about something big, how about the news Hideo Kojima, Snake's creator, is designing Snake's level in Brawl? Snake's inclusion means we're not only getting one of the best characters in gaming, but one of the best developers as well."With Sakurai at the helm and Kojima lending, not just Snake, but his actual development talent, are we anticipating the ... Best. Smash Bros. Ever?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
that guy @ Jul 31st 2006 11:10AM
In response to your question Joystiq: very, very likely.
Good times will be had by all with Brawl, I'm sure.
Michael @ Jul 31st 2006 11:14AM
I would've assumed the team doing Brawl would've been able to create a good Metal gear level anyway, but I guess it's nice to have Kojima involved in with his creation.
32_Footsteps @ Jul 31st 2006 11:29AM
Don't forget, Nobuo Uematsu is confirmed to be doing music for the game as well.
To be honest, SSBB is one of the games out there that keeps tempting me into abandoning my studied neutrality towards the next generation.
Logan @ Jul 31st 2006 11:33AM
Is it just me or is Smash Bros turning into a console gaming class-act?
With the exception of those franchises completely loyal to Microsoft /Sony, of course.
Jeremy @ Jul 31st 2006 11:34AM
Pic is missing...
Guess Who @ Jul 31st 2006 11:38AM
Completely epic. No doubt.
Dux @ Jul 31st 2006 11:47AM
sweeet! Just imagine Snake going around on a level off of MGS and fighting Genome Soilders! ^_^
" huh? What was that noise?" " ! There he is!"
MetaHuman @ Jul 31st 2006 11:55AM
That mushroom cloud you saw at the end of the initial trail was not the clout of Wario's flatulence. It was the result of a godly developer orgy watching over a godly Nintendo characters with 3rd-Party friends orgy with an emaculate chorus in the background. Chuck Norris descended, heard the song of not only Nobuo Uematsu but of the utter harmony of such a gathering and cried a single tear. Thus, cancer was cured and Super Smash Bros. Brawl was VERY, VERY GOOD.
The One to complete the prophecy is the hedgehog called Sonic. The meeting and friendly, competitive pugilism between hedgehog and plumber will harken unity not only for two embittered rivals but of fans of both creators.
The prophecy also requires that worshippers compete for the gods' attention over vast distances.
The glorious prophecy will not be fufilled unless both conditions are met.
Spencer @ Jul 31st 2006 12:03PM
This post brought to you by a heaping helping of DUH!™
james f. @ Jul 31st 2006 12:11PM
why do i hope that this level will include lockers you can hide in?
SilverSlide @ Jul 31st 2006 12:12PM
Not that I'm saying he hasn't much experience in the fast paced party game arena, but I wonder if we'll get a half hour cutscene before each round as well...
32_Footsteps @ Jul 31st 2006 12:17PM
Along the lines of what james f. suggested, the Snake level should have roving bot guards that attack you periodically if you wander into their line of sight. It could function similar to the random Arwing incursions on the Corneria and Venom stages in SSB Melee, or Birdo's appearance in Mushroom Kingdom 2.
Logan @ Jul 31st 2006 12:19PM
@ james f.
Subconscious tendencies that arose from your junior high days spent changing clothes in the locker room while locked inside a locker?
William @ Jul 31st 2006 12:19PM
"actual development talent"?
Are you saying Sakurai sucks at development? Or just in the eyes of Kojima?
Zeldathebest @ Jul 31st 2006 12:28PM
It really is amazing what ssb has become.Specially since there are only two games in the franchise.We cannot forget that. I dont see how any kind of fanboy or gamer in general can dislike ssb.Unless of course your Mark Rein.
darryl @ Jul 31st 2006 12:35PM
It'll be just as lame, if not more so than previous versions... More sequels! Awesome...
MosquitoControl @ Jul 31st 2006 12:46PM
Darryl = clint, no?
Anyway, I'd hope he designs it with some help. Only as some experience with these exact levels might help go a long way.
I've been a bit concerned about this game. Weren't there quotes about simplifying it? SSB is great because it's already fairly simple yet incredibly deep (again, I will go on record calling it the deepest fighting game of last generation.)
As for Sonic... I still don't think he fits. His main power is a really fast roll. For one, the levels aren't big enough for "really fast." And Jigglypuff already does his roll. Sonic just doesn't seem like a good fit.
Lastly, I really hope they include every SSB level in this game. It'd be a shame to lose some of the better SSBM ones. Like SMBW level, where I can constantly swipe the middle bricks when Fox is in mid-jump, causing him to fall to his doom.
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 12:54PM
William, not necessarily saying Sakurai has no talent, but Kojima's a big name right up there with the best in terms of production qualities. Even if you don't like the MG games, they've all got undeniably high production values.
TDub301 @ Jul 31st 2006 1:08PM
Wow, what an idiot. Lame? You know what's lame? How everyone sweats Halo even though it has nothing different from any other first-person shooter. Smash Brothers is so simple, yet has so much depth, but in Halo, the first person to start getting the head shots always wins. There's a giant following for Smash brothers and rightly so because the game is unlike any other. If the characters were replaced with GTA characters or something, then the rest of the gaming world would never get enough, but just because most gamers want to feel like grown-ups (because they're too insecure with themselves) and play games in which all you do is run around shooting people and banging hookers, this game which is actually a diamond in the ruff in comparison to other unworthy games, is widely unnoticed. Lame? This game has so much potential. Shut the fuck up with that shit, you don't know what you're talking about
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 1:18PM
TDub301, admittedly not lame, but the Smash Bros series does leave something to be desired.
There's very little depth beyond the initial constraints of the gameplay and the eight attacks, but regardless, hearing your breakdown of why Halo isn't anything not offered already is pretty pathetic, and only slightly better than:
"SSBB IS THE BEST THING EVAR, AND HALO IS TEH SUCK!"
MosquitoControl @ Jul 31st 2006 1:30PM
"There's very little depth beyond the initial constraints of the gameplay and the eight attacks"
While you're entirely correct about his assessment of Halo, you're wrong about the depth of SSBM.
Download some videos of "pros" doing things you never thought possible. Or just go to Gamefaqs and compare the amount of FAQs to other fighting games. People have spent months writing on the finer art of wave-dashing or R-cancelling.
jon pop @ Jul 31st 2006 1:31PM
well............... ima armpit weasel and thats all that really matters
am i right?
Logan @ Jul 31st 2006 1:36PM
@ Lee
Though I'm tempted to say something to the effect of "Very little depth? What on earth is wrong with you? Have you even played SSB?", I'll instead take the higher road and point out from errors in your post that you probably have not played SSB enough to truly understand the game.
Quote: "There's very little depth beyond the initial constraints of the gameplay and the eight attacks"
Each character has far more than 8 attacks. Although only a few buttons are used, they respond differently to varying pressure on the control stick, whether or not the player is in the air or on the ground, recoiling from an attack, etc... I'm guessing the total comes out to upwards of 16 moves per character, and knowing them is only half the battle. To get really good you have to know the details of each move.
In short, your statement shows that you don't really have the experience with SSB to make statements about it's depth of gameplay.
Since my experience with Halo is not as deep as others, I'll politely refrain from making generalizations about how deep the rabbit hole really goes. Please exercize the same restraint.
Gerwurztraminer @ Jul 31st 2006 1:39PM
It'd be nice to see an expansive Metal Gear stage similar to the Legend of Zelda one on Melee. There'd be plenty of opportunity to include various environmental settings/themes. Although, i guess it would be "inside the military compound", "outside the military compound", "on the roof of the military compound", "ooh, a snow field". Either way, looking forward to this game!!
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 1:43PM
Mosquito, fair enough, I was a bit quick to categorise SSB, it's just a bit easy to look down on it when you're heavy into VF4, SC, SF3/GG. I don't doubt that there's depth, more than enough when you're looking at it from a happy party game perspective, from what I've played/seen less so when compared to other fighters.
There just seemed to be less effort put into balancing the characters and more subtle gameplay effects like your aforementioned R-cancelling.
I was a bit vague with the "much depth", I was just saying how it's not the be-all and end-all of fighters, and in my experience much more enjoyable as a partygame with 4 people than as a serious fighter.
But that's all relative, personally after the initial "OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!" when playing Melee and the N64 version, replayability drops quite quickly. I just hope because it's online now there's more subtleties and balanced characters.
MISTAAAA EATAAAAAAA!!! @ Jul 31st 2006 1:44PM
So, which characters are gonna be removed?
They said that three characters was going to get removed, right?
I think that one of the reasons SSB got so much love is the massive amount of characters. A good choice would not to remove any characters and add more instead of making physics/graphics/whatever.
The simplicity, amount of characters and the fact that SSM is a great "party game" is, in my opinion, what makes SSB such a great series.
Waitaminute @ Jul 31st 2006 1:51PM
Wasnt this supposed to be a launch title??? If the system is supposed to come out in two months then shouldnt this game be basically done with now? I mean do just get word that they are just beginning this level would suggest that the game is not gonna make launch. Correct?
vidGuy @ Jul 31st 2006 1:55PM
Mista, some characters will be removed because they are rehashes of a character being included (for example - Young Link is being removed in favor of Wind Waker Link, at least that's the rumor. It makes sense, too, since the current Link is being replaced with Twlight Princess Link). I also heard that Ice Climbers may be removed, not sure about that one though.
In addition, some of the unlockable characters are getting their own move set. Ganondorf comes to mind as an almost exact clone of Captain Falcon, so hopefully he'll get the right treatment.
But don't worry, the character group is supposed to be bigger than the 24 (?) characters in Melee. It'll probably come out with 30 to 40 characters. And I'm crossing my fingers that new characters are added via Connect24. That'd be a great feature.
vidGuy @ Jul 31st 2006 1:59PM
Waitaminute, Brawl is NOT a launch title. Just like Super Mario Galaxy, it got pushed back. Rumor is that they'll both launch 6 to 8 months into the console's life. For me, that'll be perfect. I'll have about a dozen games to play through between now and then.
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 2:01PM
MISTA EATA, when going online balancing the game can be very tricky, and it gets much harder with more characters. Let's face it, some characters were simply not doing much for the game, and cameo appearances are better suited.
Logan, having played numerous fighters to death, including both SSBs, I will decide against exercising restraint, I'll just justify my perceived "errors" rather than throwing them out with no explanation, as I did before.
I don't believe that there are many more than 8 attacks. Most of the attacks are doubles of others, or charged up versions of the same attacks. Eight was just an arbitrary number I threw out, but having played SSBM heavily, 16 is pushing it. Even considering throws, etc.
But having "16" moves and knowing their limits is not what I was quantifying as depth, as said before, it's the gameplay itself and not the moves that truly demonstrate the depth of a game, whilst my comment was meant to be light, there's still just not enough for me to regard it in the same light as other hardened fighters, and it will always have that "party game" appeal to me. Any game that is that unbalanced, with powerups that can heavily favour one character, just doesn't scream depth to me. Even removing the powerups, you're just leaving not enough abilities to be substantial.
But as I said, it's all relative.
that guy @ Jul 31st 2006 2:01PM
Waitaminute - this is definitely not a launch title. They announced that at E3 this year. It'll be out sometime in 2007. Some will say early, but I won't believe that until I see it.
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 2:16PM
Gah, my post got deleted? Pfft, ah well, it was essentially:
"more characters take time to balance in online games", and:
"SSB movelist consists much of more powerful versions of the same attacks (8 was an arbitrary number I threw out, but it's not 16), and besides, depth comes from gameplay subtleties, and it just can't compete with games like VF and SF3. Game too imbalanced/powerups and random level events lean bias towards characters based on luck. But it's all relative I suppose."
Oh, and I have stupid numbers of hours clocked in SSB, so don't lecture me on what I have and haven't played.
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 2:22PM
Wait, it WASN'T deleted? But it was up, and then gone, and now back?
Stupid thing.
SB @ Jul 31st 2006 2:26PM
Kinda iffy on this, as Kojima recently bashed the Wii in one of his interviews.
I love Snake, but I'd feel better about his presence if his creator would at least feign some enthusiasm for the console he'll be appearing on.
Logan @ Jul 31st 2006 3:14PM
@ Lee
Example: Ness in Melee
Neutral-Ground A: Simple quick punch
Up-Ground B: Energy ball you control with the stick that can used as a projectile or a boost charge when you hit Ness with it again.
Forward-Ground A: Medium-strength kick
Smash Forward-Ground A: Homerun bat swing
Up-Ground A: Vertical 180 YoYo
Down-Ground A: Horizontal YoYo
Forward-Ground B: Horizontal Fire Trap (PK Fire)
Neutral-Ground B: Projectile move that can be charged into a big green explosion
Down-Ground B: Energy Shield
Up-Air A: Vertical head butt
Forward-Air A: Electric air charge attack
Back-Air A: Air Kick smash
Neutral-Air A: Spinning punch attack
I think that's about it for character specific moves, but I may have missed 1 or 2. In addition are moves that vary only slightly between characters.
Ground L/R: Shield (Also works for advanced manuever "L-Cancelling")
Ground L/R + Left/Right: Dodge roll
Air L/R: Airdodge (Also important for advanced manuever "Wavedashing")
Z: Grab player (then 4 different throw attacks based on which direction you move the stick afterwards, and the ability to hit while grabbed using A)
Note: I'm obviously not counting jumping as a move, even though the effects of jumping vary greatly from player to player.
Summary:
Player-Specific Moves: 13
Shared Move Types (not counting details like different throw types): 4
Total: 17
And even if you don't like my count (I'm admittedly biased), we can all agree that to say characters in Smash Bros Melee have 8 moves is way off.
Mr. Khan @ Jul 31st 2006 4:15PM
Obviously no one has looked at Sakurai's blog at SmashBros.com, they told him when they started the project (and gave him his own studio with which to do so) that he COULD NOT TOUCH any of Melee's 26 Characters.
That being said, It's excellent that Kojima is working on it, now we need to get other Franchise-specific devs working on it, to give the series more variety
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 4:22PM
Logan, slow down.
You put way too much effort into that (hopefully you copy+pasted).
Firstly, the main thrust of my post was that the number of moves don't mean anything for depth, but there usually there's a correspondence between number of moves and subtle gameplay mechanics. Which I'm not denying this has, just nowhere near that of a hardened fighter.
Secondly, I already said that 8 was an arbitrary number I just threw out. You didn't need to go through all that when I'd already conceded this. Twice as many doesn't exactly blow me away though.
big n @ Jul 31st 2006 4:29PM
I can see why people like lee can say that ssbm has little depth. when I was a beginner, I didn't play it much after I got all the characters, after all why would I? I could already beat all my friends consistently and level 9 CP's? BUT then I met one of my friend's buddys who kicked my ass and used moved I hadn't seen before and became determined to beat him and only until recently could I play at his level after learning the more advanced tricks like edge hogging. My point is, there is little depth if you play against noobs and CP's all the time, but try playing some one who knows what they are doing and I think youll see games like VF and SF pale in comparison to Smash. So try playing some one who knows what theyre doing, then we'll talk, until then, dont go ranting about how smash only has 16 immediately obvious moves, so therefore it is less deep.
CANT TOUCH SMASH BROS N00B!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quann @ Jul 31st 2006 4:56PM
So if we look at all this we can pretty much say that we are going to get some more third-party characters. I imagine Square-Enix will lend some of their famous characters to the already massive roster(i.e. Black Mage, Fighter, possibly recent FF stars such as Cloud, Tidus, ect).
If you are looking at the number of characters that are going to be in the game I would say about 50 or more. With the newest characters added from Nintendo that gives us about 30 first party characters. That surely won't be all them, Ridley and Tingle could still be announced for instance. Then on top of those 35-40 Nintendo characters we will have possibly 5-10 third-party characters. If we are characters alone it wouldn't be finished until at least April, if we ignore the time it will take to get the rights to use other company's characters.
But what have you heard about big 2007 Wii titles. Super Mario Galaxy surely, but it looks like that will be launching some time in Q2. So what can Nintendo's Q4 bombshell be? I will put my money on SSBB. What else? Disaster will probably be out around that time and Sadness is getting a lot of good publicity.
Then again Nintendo could have an ace up their sleaves and we will see SSBB in Q3 and have possibly a new Zelda or Metroid title?
But if we are talking about some third-party characters we would like to see, Megaman and Pac-Man are likely candidates. As for Sonic, I have no doubt he will show up in the title. Sega has been showing a lot of love for the big N lately and they will surely grab the chance to put their big mascot in, if not more. Speaking of that I wouldn't doubt that there could be more characters from the same series in the title. Raiden(as much as it is joked about) is a very likely candidate, whether in his normal or ninja suit form. Big Boss, from MGS3, could jump in as could Old Snake. Black Mage and characters like that seem to blend in well with the Nintendo crew. Capcom could shove in Leon or another RE character for kicks aswell, they would fit in quite well with Snake. Snake VS Link VS Leon VS Mario? Beyond a doubt amazing potential.
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 5:09PM
Big N, I've already said number of moves doesn't equate to depth, so read before ranting. I'm familiar with playing above and beyond the standard fare, I'm a beat'em up nerd, that's what I do. =D But you can't tell me it supercedes games like VF4:E and SF3. Not even games like Budokai3 which had a surprisingly deep fighting system.
Cut out your "Oh you don't understand SSB noob".
SSB isn't the be all and end all of fighters, but don't worry, you'll live. It's still a good game. ;)
Alvin @ Jul 31st 2006 5:26PM
I wonder if they r making a Wario level... that would be awsome!!!!! Imagine..... in Diamond City!!!!!! Total Distruction!!!!!!!!!!
MosquitoControl @ Jul 31st 2006 5:51PM
SSB is definitely deeper than VF and Tekken.
Can't speak for SF3. I don't know if I ever even saw SF3 anywhere.
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 6:05PM
Personally, I hate Tekken. I've been to enough VF4 tournies to know that it's one of the deepest fighters ever made.
I imported my SF3 for Dreamcast and then Third Strike for PS2. Enough people play them at my university and in tournies up London.
But again, it's all relative.
striderhayasa @ Jul 31st 2006 6:09PM
@ Lee
I'm a big VF fan and I played Soul Caliber and Soul Caliber 2 too death. I have to say that SSB offers a crazy twist on an older genre and its depth has to be viewed from that perspective. SSBM is the type of game that is easy to pick up and play but tough to master. Only Nintendo has a constant track record of making games this way.
But comparing it to VF is impossible, it's not the same type of game. If you look at any other 4 player fighting game, SSBM is the absolute best. Is it perfect? no. But there isn't any other game better in that class.
VF4 is the absolute best 3D fighting game on the market today bar none. Soul Caliber comes second and then Tekken. (Tekken on PSp is awesome but I'll wait for VF on PSP) The depth is in the extensive move list and the counter system along with the ability to counter a counter as you know. Dead or Alive offers this but it's borderline cheap by being a button press. Also, I can't give Dead or Alive credit since it's a fighting game trying to be a better Virtual Fighter.
The point is VF is an entirely different animal from SSBM. Better to compare VF with the Tekkens of the world and compare SSBM to Guilty Gear DS or the Viewtiful Joe 4 player fighting game or maybe even Bleach for the DS which is an awesome game too.
Geist @ Jul 31st 2006 6:16PM
Smash Bros is probably one of the deepest fighting games I've found yet. For one, it's not a measure of how many moves you can memorize, nor is it a measure of how quick your reflexes are, and if you want to block high or low. It's all about knowing the mechanics of the game, and using the right attack at the right time, in the right position with the right character. The fact that it's still selling copies says something about how much it's being enjoyed.
Also, it's been stated before that some characters will be leaving, there's a Spring 2007 (or was it Q1?) release date, and that only characters that have been on a Nintendo system will be on there. Ie no Cloud or Tidus. I get so tired of hearing people recommend Cloud. Like, enough already!
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 6:23PM
Well it depends how you look at it strider. It's arguably in a genre all it's own, and if you insist it must be compared to other four player fighters there's little competition (Powerstone 2, Wrestling games, Guilty Gear Isuka, that DS game with Naruto/DBZ/One piece, what's that called?).
I just think that the same tight gameplay can't be achieved at four players, it IS a completely different animal, yet one I personally view to be less tuned.
Personally I prefer SCII to VF4, though I know it's not as deep. I'm not saying that SSB is a better/worse game, but from a deep fighter perspective, the goods just aren't there. As I've said before, the characters aren't very balanced, the limited movelist is irrelevent, but the powerups add an element of luck to the gameplay that just separates it from the serious fighters. I just think it delivers as a party game far better than it does as a beat'em up.
Lee @ Jul 31st 2006 6:27PM
Geist, you say enough already, but c'mon. How badass would Cloud be? =P
jon pop @ Jul 31st 2006 6:52PM
this jon pop again
me being a big fan of loud gas i thought id say this:
my favorite flavour of furbee is blueberry pirate swirl
jon pop sighing off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
give some stars
big n @ Jul 31st 2006 9:08PM
just watch this video, under smashes admittedly kiddy exterior is THE most well balanced (with a few exceptions), hardcore, and fun fighting game EVER.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2737923911300698689&q=bombsoldier
Kurai @ Aug 3rd 2006 6:08PM
Marth and Roy should stay in. If it weren't for them, most people outside of Japan wouldn't know about Fire Emblem.
As for characters I want, they need some more FE characters. I don't want Mia, from PoR. For Rekka no Ken, I can't actually think of anybody who ISN'T a swordsman. Maybe...Karel, Pent, Guy or Karla. For Sacred Stones, I want Ephraim. And for PoR...meh, Ike's all right.
_> Hehe, Namco characters. Although this series debut on many the PS1 and PS2, I want some Tales characters. Cless (Phantasia), Klarth (Phantasia), Zelos (Symphonia), or maybe even Cauis. I WOULD want Luke, but that's only for the PS2.
But away with the wishful thinking, I still was Marth and Roy to stay in.