EA gabs Q1, Wii, PS3, and E3
by Christopher Grant 
{ Aug 1st 2006 at 9:30PM }
In their Q1 earnings report, EA announced revenues were up 13% from last year but net loss also increased in the same period, from $58 million to $81 million.They followed their earnings report with a juicy conference call full of some candid executive gabbing and Gamasutra was listening, scribbling feverishly. Turns out the gaming press weren't the only ones impressed with Nintendo's E3 assault, as EA revealed, "'...we have ramped up [game] production for the Wii and DS Lite' following significant excitement over the Nintendo-created consoles at E3." That's number one. Number two isn't quite as exciting: first party Wii titles won't be more than $49.99 "suggesting that Electronic Arts games may debut for Wii at $49.99 at launch." They weren't saying though.
On the PS3 front, they balked at Sony's promise of 6 million PS3 consoles in the 2006-7 fiscal year citing "hardware companies come up a little short", and that they "expect that [Sony] will be challenged" to produce that number. This, of course, echoes the common sense response to manufacturing a console of the PS3's complexity. That's not all though, they also did the whole 360 versus PS3 thing saying the two are "more alike than different," then quickly equivocated realizing placement on Sony's Christmas list was in jeopardy, "There's a lot of horsepower in the PS3 that we're going to be able to unlock in years two, three, and four."
Gamasutra has more deets on the call, including EA's response to the E3 closure ("We think it makes good business sense"), some details on PS3 launch titles, and more juicy numbers for those of you interested in that sort of thing.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Xizer @ Aug 1st 2006 9:47PM
Hooray! I hate EA.
They make one good game a year and 50 rehashes of games that are already mediocre or average, flooding game shelves everywhere, and profiting off of garbage, thereby lowering the standard of the industry.
Let's hope EA profits continue to tumble.
Bizzaro Stamos @ Aug 1st 2006 9:50PM
I predict the first couple of years will see similar graphics yields in the 360 and PS3 as devs become more familiar with the 360 hardware and start to get the hang of the PS3 architecture, however developing on 3 CPUs for the 360 may give devs more of an incite into how to get more out of the PS3 sooner rather than later, we will see.
Rabidog @ Aug 1st 2006 9:52PM
No way PS3 is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy more powerful.
(Snicker)
SSpectre @ Aug 1st 2006 10:01PM
Someone at EA needs to get on Tiger Woods for Wii. I know Nintendo has their little golf game on Wii Sports, but I'd buy a solid TW game for Wii (the PS3 announcement of Tiger Woods made me think of this).
John Q. @ Aug 1st 2006 10:11PM
Number 2 is thrilling, are you kidding? No price increase for EA's Wii games is the best news I've heard all day. Sets a precedent for the other third-parties.
Michael @ Aug 1st 2006 10:37PM
Rabidog, just because something is more powerful does not mean that it will have better graphics, sound quality, fps, etc. Ease of use for a developer to design on and experience working with said device will play much larger roles in the final outcome. Exactly as Xizer said.
As for the $50 price tag...*shrug*...not really news to anyone. That's what they cost now.
phantom42 @ Aug 1st 2006 10:51PM
SSpectre, you'll be happy to know that EA (rather, one of their sub-companies) is currently working on a wii version of tiger woods.
(i know a guy that works in the studio thats doing it)
chudgoo @ Aug 1st 2006 11:01PM
Is it any surprise that Nintendo is winning back the public (and developers) when they focus on the non-hardcore (or at least the "unconventional hardcore") demographic. (In other words : "Everyone Else")
Sony has some major hurdles ahead of them. No doubt about that. They have probably one of the most difficult sells on their hands in the history of consumer electronics.
The Sony name coupled with shiny is simply not enough to win the majority.
Sony has tried in the past (repeatedly) to entrench themselves in propriety, hoping to reap the reward of 'owning' whatever technology becomes adopted by the masses.
(*successful* examples would include the various CD standards and the Sony/Phillips Digital InterFace (SPDIF) digital audio transport)
This is typical "Sony Style" and comes as no surprise. What is surprising though is the riskiness of these sorts of moves when they are already not doing very well with the PSP. Marketing a "computer" to the gaming public in the hope that by jacking up expectations they can justify the outrageous (for a game console) costs is just Krazy. I remember the 3DO and the Phillips CDi trying this...where are they now?
Back on the "it's a computer!" sell...
Will we ever see a fully fledged desktop Linux OS that is as unrestricted as everything else on the market? Or will this be another Yaruze or PS2Linux? A halfbaked concept with deeper roots in marketing than the actual USEFUL extension of the system? If my "computer/PS3" can't run another OS than the one provided then it is not a computer. It's a ball and shackle.
We all remember the stories a couple years back about the internal conflict at Sony... In a nutshell, Sony has so many conflicting interests in its many divisions (music, movies, electronics, etc) that in order to appease all of them they must produce what amounts to "concentrated compromise"...
Ask yourself why you never saw a true iPod-killer from the people who practically invented the concept of portable/personal audio. The simple answer if PROPRIETY and the public's avoidance of it. (yeah yeah, M4A...but at least Apple does allow the playback of MP3s and doesn't force the use of something like ATRAC)
The PSP tried to take this appeasement concept further with its ability to play (proprietary) UMD movies and MP3s (finally) that were stored on the (proprietary) Memory Stick Duo.
Also, back on the specifics of the article....
With one of the leading developers (who likely had dev kits before almost everyone else) saying things like "There's a lot of horsepower in the PS3 that we're going to be able to unlock in years two, three, and four." I find it hard to believe Sony can survive year ONE without some major reorgs and layoffs.
They are overbuilding the PS3 to the point where it's all but expensive BETA hardware until year two. Not wise.
Nintendo banked on the fact that devs already knew how to program for the GCN and it appears to be working. Microsoft banked on its industry standard DirectX tech (that nearly all PC devs are familiar with) and it too appears to be working. Sony is starting over with very premature concepts and expecting miracles. (If you need to integrate Cell into other *consumer electronics* to make it a profitable venture then you have failed. Hitting up the server/HPC market, on the other hand might yield better results. (although a PhD acquaintance at work who is heavily involved in processor architecture has pointed out some very serious performance and scaling problems that lead me to believe that you will never see a Cell based machine on top500.org)
It seems that Sony is banking on the name of the system to sell it. Not a wise move, as many once-great and now faded relics can attest.
darryl @ Aug 1st 2006 11:07PM
"No way PS3 is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy more powerful."
The PS3 certainly has a significant amount more "potential" than the 360. If you fully understand the architecture, if the tools, compiler, documentation is at least on par... and ofcourse, you bleed while designing/implementing/testing it :)
Geist @ Aug 1st 2006 11:35PM
Be prepared to play the games you play now. Only prettier. You'll be shelling out $50+ for that 'only prettier.' Good lord I hate EA.
FimShady @ Aug 1st 2006 11:54PM
A nice, down the middle collection of statements from a company committed to making titles for all three systems.
*yawn*
I wouldn't have expected anything definitively in favor of any one of the systems from this dishrag. Pure politics.
KawF @ Aug 2nd 2006 3:09AM
Did anyone really expect EA to be creating thrre levels of assets for games just so they can look better on PS3? I sure as thunder after lightning did not. Perhaps if and when their content creation pipelines have such technology at their disposal... But not now certainly. I can't remember them doing so for any games these last few years.
And oh, by the way, troll that claims that only Sony is doing proprietary stuff, do you even know what Microsoft is? Have you ever seen them follow any real standards? They create their own technology and claim that it is a standard.
Ever heard of OpenGL etc. Ever heard of Linux? Did you even know that it is fully possible for anyone and everyone to download the Cell BE development kit for free from IBM? Do you know what GNU is? If you would even take a look at the list of STANDARDIZED, OPEN, technologies being used for the PS3... Please compare that list to the list of what Microsoft has in the Xbox.
And memory sticks? Have you seen the virtual flood of other competing proprietary competitors. Yes, all proprietary. Find one for me please that is fully open and can be manufactured by anyone without licensing or royalties.
And the "PS3 is being marketed as a computer so it will fail"-argument... The PS2 and PS1 was always marketed as such too, and that did quite well I think. To paraphrase one of those Sony-guys, "We have never once called the playstation [1, 2 or 3] nothing but a computer entertainment system". Yes, in fact, I think the PS2 sold something like 100mln units. (And yes, I came to an agreement a few weeks ago that shipped=sold, with some xbot when microsoft started using shipped to measure sales, so I will call it sold.) But then again, Nintendo and Microsoft might just have som camera in each store selling xboxes and ds' registering each individual sale to end consumer. (yeah, right...).
And how is it a failure for Sony, Toshiba and IBM that the Cell BE is being used in all forms of multimedia equipment, that is what it was designed for, to be a high powered CPU with low requirements on energy usage.
Do you people even understand what a processor is and how they work and what they do?
Some useful information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cpu
catprog @ Aug 2nd 2006 5:20AM
With respect to number 12.
If the Ps3 is so open where is the Dev kit for it?
And just because Microsoft is less open does not make sony not propiratry.
with 'PS3 is being marketed as a computer so it will fail' that is not the argument. The argument was about if it will be fully open and effective.
Yamen @ Aug 2nd 2006 6:55AM
What happened to the people who promised me that Nintendo wouldn't get third-party support this generation?
striderhayasa @ Aug 2nd 2006 8:00AM
@yamen
I was curious about that myself.
striderhayasa @ Aug 2nd 2006 8:19AM
@chudgoo
on topic, I don't trust EA at any console's launch. Madden for 360 at launch was terrible and unfinished. If Visual Concepts had the rights to the NFL, EspN 2k7 would have been a sight to behold. Another Need for Speed, another Tiger Woods, another Live (which is still not better than 2K)...I'll pass. The only game that I may be interested in from EA is the Wii version of SSX. Otherwise, I don't care what EA thinks or what EA does.
Off topic
Did you see Sony's Walkman Bean? It was hilarious. I laughed until my stomach hurt when I saw it and was glad they discontinued it. Sony is missing the point in my opinion. Make tech that has a balance between price and performance, easy to navigate and adheres to industry standards. What's so hard about that?
@Kawf
Well, now, The question then becomes....how well do you expect the Cell to do in the face of proven tech from Intel and AMD?
The modular aspect of the Cell is interesting but I have doubts about the Cell in real world testing and performance. I need to see a Cell in a gaming rig or a mainframe with some benchmark tests that shows that it clearly outperforms offerings from Intel and AMD. That type of computing is where it counts really. I don't care much for a cell in a toaster, vacuum cleaner or a dvd player or the like. Having a processor in basic electronics is excess and overkill IMO.
KawF @ Aug 2nd 2006 8:46AM
@striderhayasa#15
I expect it to perform quite well for the tasks it was designed for, as a "multimedia" processor, or rather, as a numbercruncher.
I don't expect it to be in toasters, I can't recall having siad anything of the sort either. What you will "see" it in though is in TV's from both Toshiba and Sony for video processing amongst other things. It is also being used for medical applications for 3d-model-generation out of CAT-scans. [ http://www.mc.com/cell/ ] It will also be available on blade-servers from at least IBM, the model which I know about uses a dual Cell BE architecture with 1GB of RAM (512MB for each processor).
The numbers I've seen for the numbercrunchiness so to speak in regards to Cell BE is 200G flops (8 SPE's contra 7 SPE's in the PS3 version). [ http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~samw/projects/cell/CF06.pdf ], as compared to a bit "older" Intel and AMD processors that could push at most 4-5Gflops. They could quite possibly be up to double that or maybe even tripple today. If anyone finds a recent article on that please post a link to it.
And an older article by IBM: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-cellperf/
I'd also recomend to just read the Wikipedia article on the Cell BE: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_microprocessor
georgedakota @ Aug 2nd 2006 9:00AM
@13 and 14 - ea supports nearly every console known to man since genesis. The only ones that they didnt support is saturn and dreamcast. This doesnt mean tons of third party support will all the sudden become common on wii. I like nintendos games but they basically made a gamecube with a dvd drive and a new remote that will probably give carpel tunnel syndrome to everyone within 2 years. I am nearly 30 years old and nintendos games are just not "mature" enough and many are too easy. The problem i have with nintendo is what good adult fps have they made for gamecube? What great driving game(mario kart is not driving) have they or anyone made on gamecube? As good as mario, zelda and metroid may be no true gamer is going to purchase only a wii. I would go nuts without any good racers like project gotham or forza, or halo.
AG @ Aug 2nd 2006 9:30AM
Remember, the ps3 games released are first generation vs. the Xbox has games in the second generation coming out now...
Funny how the ps3 1st gen games look just as good as the xbox 360 2nd gen games.
I don't think ps3 will be better in year one, but xbox 360 better watch out in years 2 and beyond!
georgedakota @ Aug 2nd 2006 9:43AM
"I don't think ps3 will be better in year one, but xbox 360 better watch out in years 2 and beyond!"
Yes thats what sony WANTS you to believe. First of all we really havent seen second generation games for 360 yet, it has not been a year so i hardly would call this second generation until fall. And the games we are seeing now are looking the same as launch titles not counting the ports. the true games to look out for are forza 2 and gears of war among others this fall. xbox had better graphics than ps2 but not but leaps and bounds. we will see the same thing this generation but reversed. sure ps3 will look slightly better but
it will be close just like last gen and every generation before that. I love how people who arent familiar with programming and technology think ps3 will be greatly more powerful. Like sony somehow is the only company who made a processor that is so much better than anything else. If thats your way of thinking you will have a reality check come fall and beyond. Sony promised ps2 would have toy story-like graphics and after 5-6 years they havent even come close to that. They lie to get you the niave consumer to buy into their products. Thats why everyone was disappointed severly with sony at e3, they made huge promises and didnt come close to it. On the other hand microsoft didnt hype up the system as much and showed only gameplay last year to let the games speak for themselves. Sony always has to sell their product by telling lies and stupid comments like the ps3 is a computer. Please, if it dont come witb web browsing, email, keyboard, mouse and a windows os or similiar then it is NOT a computer. If i want a computer anyway i can make or purchase one now for less than $600 with a monitor,keyboard,mouse,software and os.
Evan @ Aug 2nd 2006 9:49AM
@17 "The problem i have with nintendo is what good adult fps have they made for gamecube?"
Keep in mind that the best selling fps of all time was GoldenEye on the N64.
chudgoo @ Aug 2nd 2006 10:15AM
>>KawF
What a condecending pile towards the end there...
here's a link for you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turd
anyway...
"how is it a failure for the Cell BE is being used in all forms of multimedia equipment, that is what it was designed for, to be a high powered CPU with low requirements on energy usage."
So what you're telling me is that there is a market screaming out for the Cell besides consoles or servers? The cell is not a requirement for a BlueRay player, right? Something with 7 SPEs and carries a very high cost has a place in normal "multimedia equipment"? Are people buying digital video mixers with a requirement for 100+ streams?
What is a -real world- application for this processor?
On the energy usage bit...
The PS3 has more holes in it than solid surfaces. (mostly kidding) Yes, I read that claim about it using 30W too, but the design of the case argues with that number.
darryl @ Aug 2nd 2006 10:29AM
"Sony promised ps2 would have toy story-like graphics..."
No said no such thing, that's what MICROSOFT wants you to believe...
"One of the basic premises of the Xbox is to put the power in the hands of the artist," Blackley said, which is why Xbox developers "are achieving a level of visual detail you really get in 'Toy Story.'"
http://netscape.com.com/Microsoft+got+game+Xbox+unveiled/2100-1040_3-250632.html
Try and find a quote, from a Sony spokesperson, that says anything about Toy Story. What's that? Oh, you can't?
Keep spreading the FUD.
"Like sony somehow is the only company who made a processor that is so much better than anything else."
Nope, not Sony, but IBM... They have designed a "broadband engine" designed for media processing.
Microsoft jammed three PowerPC cores together and called it a day. I wonder which of the two will shine?
Bub @ Aug 2nd 2006 10:42AM
I'm going to Gamasutra to read the real article instead of listening through Joystiq's obvious and continuing anti-Sony bias: "...then quickly equivocated realizing placement on Sony's Christmas list was in jeopardy..."
What kind of crap writing is this? Oh, that's right. It's Joystiq. News funded by Microsoft.
Joystiq=Pravda.
SuicideNinja @ Aug 2nd 2006 12:00PM
"Ever heard of OpenGL etc. Ever heard of Linux?"
Open source is a great thing, but not so great in some environments. I was talking with our lead programmer the other day, and we were discussing .NET (C#, C++, VB) vs Java and how many companies moved to Java because it's "free" and/or "cheaper".
Down the road, businesses find that these open-source technologies waste a lot of time (and therefore money). Java for instance, has no good tools. You can waste a lot of time just trying to make a GUI in it. Visual Studio .NET on the other hand, allows a developer to spend more time progressing with code as opposed to wasting time trying to get the desired results at each stepping stone of the process.
I'll admit that Microsoft hasn't made good choices pre Windows XP, and their lack of standards in the horrible Internet Explorer browser is appalling. But they do make the best development environments and tools.
As for Linux, I think it is a great thing, but people often forget that it has it's own set of problems and security holes. It's great that anyone can fix the code as necessary, but it will never be perfect.
Anyway, as far as the PS3, developers are going to have to spend some serious time with the likely lackluster tools that Sony provides. The Cell seems like it has a good architecture for multiple processor applications, but not necessarily for a single processor app. It's single full-fledged core that has to waste time instructing the SPE's just seems like it would bring a lot of overhead.
But if they can get the desired results out of the Xbox 360...why put extra effort forth to make improvements to the PS3 version? We got a taste of that with the PS2 vs the Xbox. The tables may have turned.
Rootbeer @ Aug 2nd 2006 2:16PM
Funny how the ps3 1st gen games look just as good as the xbox 360 2nd gen games.
From this we might extrapolate that third-wave 360 games will look as good as second-wave PS3 games, and fourth-wave 360 games as third-wave PS3 games, until the full potential of either of the consoles is realized.
That demonstrates a complaint I have about a trend in console design that's been going on for a while, of the hardware companies selling us potential rather than capability.
If I'm paying 2006 prices for hardware that won't be fully taken advantage of until 2008, I'm getting ripped off.
Think back to the SNES... between launch titles Super Mario World and Pilotwings, didn't you pretty much have most of the potential of the hardware explored already?
Back further, the Atari 2600. It was a hardware design barely suitable for playing anything more complex than Pong. That someone found a way to trick it into running Battlezone, or Solaris, or Pitfall... the mind boggles.
Where's the wizardry these days? Where's the pushing a console's ability not only to its natural limits, but BEYOND?
Gianni Gotti @ Aug 2nd 2006 3:08PM
"Manufacturing Complexity of the PS3"???
This is more Sony hype that the uncritical-game industry "media" have sucked up.
The PS3 has an incredibly simple design and relatively low component count given its features. WHat it DOES have is an extremely complex CPU.
The manufacturing risk lies in the supply of Cell processors not in the RSX, I/O chips or other support chips.
Published reports indicate that Cell has been stockpiled but the challenge has been sourcing commodity components at cheap prices...
chudgoo @ Aug 2nd 2006 10:32PM
Well said, Rootbeer. I agree completely.
The are few recent examples that come to mind of a launch title that really set the stage...
Somehow this seems appropriate...
"A delayed game is eventually good; a bad game is bad forever." -Shigeru Miyamoto
Except something along the lines of
A properly planned launch is divine...a delayed benefit is inane and wasteful.
KawF @ Aug 3rd 2006 1:50AM
What the bloody hell was condecending about my post?
I was pointing out that there is a great source of information on Cell over at Wikipedia that you might be interested in. I keep on seeing so much "information" on places like this that people have puleld out of their asses with NOTHING to back it up. Go troll somewhere else chudgoo.
And yes, HD enabled equipment would very much benefit from using the Cell BE as a processor. Have you ever seen the processing requirements of h264 and VC1 for 1080p60 material? It's INSANE. And TV's with their image processing that has to process the same ammount of data? Yeah, sorry, both of those need serious horse-power. Now they use very specialised chipsets that cost quite a bit of money. Now think what could be done if you replace those and do all the processing with just one single chip. Instant cost reduction.
And what are you going on about all devices needing all SPE's? That's the "beauty" of Cell BE, you get chips with everything from one SPE to 8 SPE's. Guess how the pricing is done. One SPE - cheap, 8 SPE's, not so cheap. And then just extrapolate inbetween.
The "problem" with a "bulky" design? It's just about the same volume of a Xbox 360. BUT it has an internal powersupply unlike the 360. Sony knows how to do proper thermal engineering. Combined with a Cell-chip that produces less heat than many competitors, so what if the unit is running at 30-40C. How would that be bad. I'm personally sick and tired of all these power-bricks all over the place, so I'm happy Sony chose to have an internal PSU. People complaining about "how it would be heave to lug around" when going to friends and such. Bullshit. Does your 360 not require power? Throw in the powerbrick and they're the same weight. But I guess the 360 has a magical source of power. It's TRULY WIRELESS.
And what do I see here, people complain about Sony being "proprietary" and then go shit all over them for using open standards and claim that everyone should use the CLOSED, PROPRIETARY, microsoft hacks that are even worse.
I frigging challange you to prove these are better. I work with Microsoft software all day long, and I can honestly tell you this. It may look simple to use. But by GOD it is not when you start scratching beneath the surface.
Go "hack" some amazing software in VB and see if anyone even gives a darn. Try to actually do something usefull. Oh, sorry, you can't. Forgot to mention that.
Personally, I choose to rather use industry STANDARD tools, promoted by Intel, IBM, and every tech company on the planet, except for Microsoft.
It's not a bloody standard just because Microsoft has stuffed enough money down the throat of advertising and spin.
chudgoo @ Aug 3rd 2006 1:29PM
Kawf..
For someone who likes to rip on Microsoft with reckless abandon you sure like to say troll a lot...
So HD video processing is a real world application for such a monster of a chip? Do you think that that application of the Cell will become mainstream enough for Sony to make the development costs of the Cell worth it? I don't know a soul who would be interested in a TV that possesses more raw power than their actual computer. Wouldn't a standalone (non-embedded) video processing box make more sense? Either way I would say that most people who find that sort of thing very exciting they will not reach for their check books after seeing it.
The actual applications for the Cell are still way beyond what the majority wants or needs...and no amount of sony hype will make any of it more affordable.
chudgoo @ Aug 3rd 2006 5:17PM
Kawf...
"And memory sticks? Have you seen the virtual flood of other competing proprietary competitors. Yes, all proprietary. Find one for me please that is fully open and can be manufactured by anyone without licensing or royalties."
I was not saying that the alternatives WERE 'open' or 'free'. Everyone wants their cut. The difference between the SD/CFs of the world and the Memory Stick (duo) is that you can find devices that use the SD/CF standards that are not built directly by the people who built the memory card standard it uses. Have you ever seen anything BUT a Sony device feature an MSD slot? (sure, name the odd cell phone or something, but overall you know I'm right) This exclusive use tells me that either Sony is being too greedy on the licensing costs or they just don't want you to even consider buying from their competition. Vendor lock-in, and all.
(I'd bet on the latter being the case)
As an owner of LOTS of Sony products I would say that you have -less- freedom to choose when you you buy Sony.
For some reason I feel the need to list some of the Sony products I was charmed into buying... maybe to prove this isn't just some troll or fanboy spouting off. I have apologized for Sony for many years and only recently started to see WHY it is that I always seemed to be "upgrading" (or rather buying new stuff to replace dead stuff) I have real reasons to see things the way I do.
Sony MZ-R1, R2, R3, R50, R55, R70, R90, E2, E3, B3 JE-500 and JE-510 (all of which died within one year of (non-abusive) daily use... Including the $500 white japanese-import R90, damnit! That thing was AWESOME for the time)
(Sony's warranty support for all of these MD units was totally subpar...hence the "rebuying/upgrading" pattern.
6x Sony portable CD players (all dead)
1x Sony MDM-X4 Minidisc 4-track recorder/mixer (broken record head and intermittent problems with playback. Heartbreaking really, considering how many MD-DATA discs I have that contain priceless memories. I had invested more than just money into that one...
3x Sony PS2 (only the PStwo still works. The other PS2s have faulty optics and are worthless...including the 'wont fit on the pstwo' HD/LAN accessory, damnit)
2x PSPs (2.71 is used exclusively for Metal Gear AC!D2 and the 1.50 is used to play old Nintendo/Sega ROMs and the odd 'backup'...oh, and dead pixels on both)
2x Sony PS1s (one had the video skipping problem, the other only plays silver discs now..not black, blue, gold or anything else.
Sony 5-disc DVD changer (the that first Sony produced. $900 list price. Dead.
Actually looking back it seems that something they have in common is optical components. With that said, is BlueRay a wise move right now considering the longevity issues with nearly all Sony optics? (iow, shouldn't they master DVD before moving to something with much lower error tolerances?)