Goodbye PowerMac, hello Mac Pro

by Christopher Grant { Aug 7th 2006 at 3:50PM }

For the three of you that weren't keeping up with Engadget's Stevenote liveblogging earlier, you and your credit card provider are probably still blissfully unaware of the new hotness out of Cupertino: the Mac Pro. Gone is the last of their consumer PowerPC-based systems, the venerable PowerMac; in its place is a giant end-boss of a system, featuring two dual-core Intel Xeon processors (that's four cores, dang!), up to 16GB of DDR2 RAM, four hard drive bays for a current maximum of 2TB of storage, and dual optical drives.

"But what about the graphics, man?"

Fine, the graphics. The good news, unlike the integrated options in the MacBook and Mac mini, this one is a real graphics card. And unlike the iMac and MacBook Pro, the Mac Pro's graphics system is upgradable. The downside, the default offering is a (relatively) anemic 256MB GeForce 7300 GT. For an extra $350 on top of the already pricey starting point of $2499, you can throw an AMD-owned ATI Radeon X1900 XT with 512MB of RAM into your Intel-based Mac, making that issue a nonstarter, while turning your Mac Pro into a serious gaming system. They're shipping today, so if you're made of money, get splurging. However, know this: we hate you.

Stare - Engadget's hands-on (with Mac pr0n!)
Covet - Apple's Mac Pro product page
Weep - Apple's online store page

Graphics Card Specifications

	NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT	ATI Radeon X1900 XT	Quadro FX 4500
Memory interface	128-bit	256-bit	256-bit
Frame buffer memory	256MB GDDR2 SDRAM	512MB GDDR3 SDRAM	512MB GDDR3 SDRAM
Memory bandwidth	10.7 GB/s	41.6 GB/s	33.6 GB/s
Vertices per second	350 million	1.2 billion	940 million
Fill rate (billion pixels per second)	2.8 billion	9.6 billion	10.8 billion
Ports	One single-link and one dual-link DVI	Two dual-link DVI	Two dual-link DVI, one stereo 3D
Slots occupied	One standard slot	One double-wide slot	One double-wide slot
Price	$2499 + $0	$2499 + $350	$2499 + $1650

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

chris w @ Aug 7th 2006 3:54PM

"serious gaming" and "mac" are two words I didnt think I would ever hear together in the same sentence. I know people are going to point to boot camp, but couldnt you build a better gaming PC with the same amount of money spent on this mac?

just a thought...

GSI @ Aug 7th 2006 3:58PM

...and this has what do with games again?

Oh yea thats right...it has nothing to do with games.

C. Grant @ Aug 7th 2006 4:02PM

GSI: Oh yeah, except you can use one [Mac Pro] to play them [games]. Troll elsewhere.

chris w: you could, if you wanted to buy a PC. What if you were a Mac user and wanted to buy a Mac? See how easy it is to answer these questions. As for the quality vs. the price, I'll let another reader tackle that one. Anyone?

GOD @ Aug 7th 2006 4:07PM

"Oh yea thats right...it has nothing to do with games." Well this might be surprising to you, but some people still use PCs (even prefer PCs) to game on. You might want to try it sometime. You could play little known games like W.O.W., F.E.A.R., and Battlefield 2.

KBeat @ Aug 7th 2006 4:14PM

Very sweet new machines. With boot camp, or perhaps even the new cider, you get the best of both worlds. A high end gaming PC, and OSX for everything else.

Sign me up!

Jeff @ Aug 7th 2006 4:22PM

I love how a 7300GT is considered "anemic" these days. I bought a 6600 just about a year ago and it was damn near top of the line. And people wonder why the PC game industry is in the toilet...

artist-illustrator @ Aug 7th 2006 4:22PM

lets face it. the windows OS is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind the Mac OS in terms of user friendliness, performance, and of course security. and now that you can boot camp games onto this "super" Mac, you have the best of both worlds.

1) a superb OS (X) that works, for all your non gaming needs

2) a crappy OS that you can play great games on

wonderful :n)

naib @ Aug 7th 2006 4:27PM

This is the day my G5 has been dreading. =/

*plays Taps for the PPC G5*

SmartriX @ Aug 7th 2006 4:29PM

You can build a custom PC that has Two 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon Processors? Didnt know that...yea thats right you cant. 2499 is not a lot considering what you are getting here, purchase boot camp and you have the last machine youll EVER need.

Alex @ Aug 7th 2006 4:33PM

a 7300 is "anemic" because it wasn't made to be a super-high end card. you can't compare a 6600 and a 7300 and conclude that a 7300 must be better because the number is larger. the first digit in the model number only designates the series that the card is from (same thing with ati, for the record... ati's 9 series is a little better than nvidia's fx series, ati's x is a little worse than geforce 6, and x1 is more or less on par with 7).

you have to look at the second number to get any idea of what kind of card you're buying. a 6800, for example, is leagues ahead of a 7300. a radeon x1400 might be only marginally better than a radeon x600 because of the inherent superiority of the x1 series.

SmartriX @ Aug 7th 2006 4:38PM

Graphically speaking you can get 4 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT's for an extra hundred bucks and your GPU stats will blow away those other 2 cards.

apoc @ Aug 7th 2006 4:43PM

what's this doing here o.o

PinkSpider @ Aug 7th 2006 4:57PM

It's... it's all so neat. I think I'm in love.

Shuns messy, held together by string gaming pc.

Shad Genki @ Aug 7th 2006 4:59PM

Ugh, why should I pay 3 times more than a PC with the same specs just to get a Mac Pro? This is why Windows dominates the market. Sure, the software isn't as great, but the hardware is easier to upgrade and it comes at a much, much lower price point. It's completely laughable to think that it would actually be more than twice the cost to make a Mac than a PC.

Fuzz @ Aug 7th 2006 5:01PM

This is relevent to gaming for some people, not because of Mac OSX, but becuase the new version will ship with boot camp, so you CAN throw XP on there, and have a full fledged gaming machine that is also a powerful workstation, so the idea of putting a better gfx card in is definatly relevent for some people.

rip @ Aug 7th 2006 5:02PM

Re: pricing.

You can't compare this to a computer you built from parts from Fry's and Newegg. Obviously, people are going to say they built god's gaming system for $500. Of course, it overheats all the time and is in a giant plastic case that looks like a chromed decepticon. And good luck bulding your own dual dual-core xeon box.

Compare this to an Alienware, Falcon or other high end workstation. The prices are very competitive. And it's got some very sweet internal server-like hardware design like the RAM riser card and snap in HD enclosures.

This box isn't meant for casual gamers or even consumers. It's meant for high end workstation users. Seriously, how many dual dual core xeon boxes do you see at Best Buy?

noob @ Aug 7th 2006 5:04PM

lol mac gaming...the biggest joke of all ati1900x? haah wheres the 7950 x2? Can it run SLI?

and lets be serious, any poweruser finds using the macosx confining and horrible.

I would switch for vanity but the osx is too not poweruser friendly for my tastes. I know windows in and out, there is no reason to switch.

artist-illustrator @ Aug 7th 2006 5:05PM

"3 times more"!?!

send me the link to the store where you can get the same specs at 3 times less the price

Evil D @ Aug 7th 2006 5:07PM

@Shad Genki - You can't just say "3 times" and not have a list of hardware or something to back it up. I'd like to see a list. You need to build a PC with the exact same (or really, really close) specs as these new Macs. Don't be shy.

rip @ Aug 7th 2006 5:11PM

#13 @ Shad Genki:

Show me a Windows PC with the same hardware specs as a Mac Pro that you can buy for $850.

Dual 2.66 dual core xeon cpus, 4 pci express slots, up to 16GB ram, etc.

Tell you what, if you find one, from a real company, I'll buy 2, one for me and one for you.

GSI @ Aug 7th 2006 5:12PM

@ C. Grant:

You attack me and call me a troll yet the guy who posted before me basically said the same thing.

"purchase boot camp and you have the last machine youll EVER need."

Are you new to the world of computers or something? For both Mac or PC, that statement makes no sense.

artist-illustrator @ Aug 7th 2006 5:17PM

"and lets be serious, any poweruser finds using the macosx confining and horrible"

confining? horrible?

ok, so your confined to apps thats arn't windows based. and the OS X doesn't have that look of windows 95 with brighter colours and rounded edges (vista not included, that does look quite prutty with its OS X knock off look)

poweruser indeed

steve @ Aug 7th 2006 5:18PM

urm... I don't understand, why is the max HDD 2TB, with 4x750GB, it should be 3TB, right?

ill trooper @ Aug 7th 2006 5:19PM

Awesome.

I am definitly ready for a new Mac, I love my MacBook Pro, and although my G5 is fairly new, it won't be able to touch this thing when the new Adobe Intel-native software ships, which is what I primarily use...

I know this is a gaming blog and honestly I only game on my consoles and a PC I built for gaming, but if you're a designer-y, video dude like myself this is like the Second Coming of Christintosh. I may have to get the video card upgrade so I can use this for my gaming needs (let's just be honest, BF2 needs) as well.

Trolls: You can get a cheaper PC? Really? Wow. Go do that then. But I want a Mac that runs OSX. And this fits the bill.

In other related news, the Apple 30" display is now $1999, down from $2500. That thing is amazing too... Mmmmm.

I gotta go collect aluminum cans and scrounge for change now!

GSI @ Aug 7th 2006 5:26PM

@ 21:

Get off your high horse already...my PC can do EVERYTHING a Mac can do and then someone.

As long as my PC can play all the latest games when they ORIGINALLY come out (not 3+ months later), have Photoshop running smoothly AND have 3d Studio Max running...I have no use for a PC.

If the day does come when I can do all those things without having to install Boot Camp, then MIGHT consider switching.

Geist @ Aug 7th 2006 5:26PM

I don't give a flying care for Macs, personally, but I wouldn't mind having the inside of my box look at neat and tidy as that. Much better than the mess of wires and circuitry that it is now.

Keith L. Dick @ Aug 7th 2006 5:36PM

Very sweet looking machine, to bad my pocket book is empty or I'd be playing around on one of those right now...

samfish @ Aug 7th 2006 5:37PM

"and lets be serious, any poweruser finds using the macosx confining and horrible.

I would switch for vanity but the osx is too not poweruser friendly for my tastes. I know windows in and out, there is no reason to switch."

That's a stupid thing to say. Someone's never used Expose...
I'm SO much more efficient on my Mac than I ever can hope to be on a Windows machine.

Anyhow, I'll eventually buy one of these. I'll wait for 10.5 and Adobe's CS3 suite before I take this plunge, though.
May as well start saving now...Hopefully I can get some money from my current G5 on eBay when I trade up...but I doubt it :P

rip @ Aug 7th 2006 5:43PM

BTW,

I just configured a dual dual core xeon system from Alienware. And one from Dell.

Apple:

Dual 2.66 (2 cpus)
2GM RAM
250GB HD
Superdrive
Quadro FX 4500 512MB
Price: $4,449.00

Alienware:

Dual 2.66 (2 cpus)
2GB RAM
250GB drive
Superdrive
Quadro FX 3500 256MB
Price: $6,041.00

Dell:

2 2.66 dual core xeon
2GB RAM
Quadro fx 4500
Superdrive
250GB drive
Price: $5300.00

Yeah, Apple hardware is overpriced... :P

Brian @ Aug 7th 2006 5:44PM

In case no one else has done the math, a dual-processor/dual core AMD PC with the same videocard, ram, hard drive, input devices, and an equivalent sized display (granted, the mac display has a lower contrast ratio, a longer response time, lower brightness, and a smaller viewing angle) costs:

AMD PC: $1911.00
Mac Pro: $3198.00

It'd be more if you had an intel processor in the PC, so that would account for some of the difference. The Mac Pro IS more expandable, but they also start you off with horrible options (1gb ram? a 7300gt???) so let's assume we bump it up to 2gb ram, the x1900XT, and a 500GB HD:

AMD PC: $2344.00
MacPro: $3698.00

You can't run OSX on the AMD PC. If that's worth $1350 to you, then get a MacPro.

csmith @ Aug 7th 2006 5:45PM

why do these posts always end up as flame wars? okay.. people like windows and cheap computers. okay.. people like OS X and not so cheap computers. it all comes down to which OS you prefer. the costs are relative to your os preference. silliness.

ill trooper @ Aug 7th 2006 5:48PM

Well, GSI, we definitely see that your PC can use the 'refresh window' button...

I'm up here on my high horse running Final Cut Pro... Not something you're able to do on your PC.

Really it comes down to this: Are you down with OPERATING SYSTEMS or COMPUTER COMPANIES? Apple Macintoshes can now run any operating system there is... No other computer company can say that.

So why be so mad at the new Macs? You can run the box like it's a WINDOWS machine if you want, so you're fighting about the wrong things. It can be your PC if you want it too, so you can play 'all the latest games when they ORIGINALLY come out." Or you can run OSX.

But either way, this is a BRUTAL machine.

Dude, if you're so mad, just run your PC and be happy with the money you saved. More power to you.

nerds @ Aug 7th 2006 5:48PM

Finally a mac that can run Eve Online! Since I'm a n00b and don't know what a real power-user is I'll definitely be getting one as soon as the next tax seasons rolls around.

linux guy @ Aug 7th 2006 5:59PM

Stupid mac fanboys!!! To play the newest games you'll need vista and the newest directX which is preinstalled in the newest gaming pcs!!!Plus you can buy a pc with pretty much the same specs for much less money!!! And if you want security, have it dual boot into LINUX since all it's apps are free and it uses wine, which is way better than cider!!!

howhow @ Aug 7th 2006 6:00PM

#24, GSI

I just want to say first of all you don't have to run boot camp to have both OS's going. There are other software programs that run within OS X without sacrificing processor speed and power (like virtual pc did). do a search for parallels for example.

so, yeah looks like you can consider switching soon.

Secondly. You saying that your PC can do everything a mac can do... the reverse can be said as well. If you want to talk about specific progams that a PC runs that macs do not natively, then yeah 3D studio max, for example, isn't on a mac but macs have final cut pro that pcs can't use. The list can go on and on of course.

The bottom line is this. Mac purists back Apple for design sense, ease of use when using proprietary software and most importantly (and probably most likely) the operating system. The most common argument that people who back PC's have are 1. it's cheaper (big whoop... you get what you pay for. Apple's products are built VERY well, and if something does go wrong, Apple's support is untouched. Look at all those people who got their macbooks replaced), and 2. software availability (well, now that apple uses intel and can run PC software without speed and power sacrifice, that argument goes to shit).

This argument can go on and on but let's be honest here for a second. Wouldn't you rather just have the best of both worlds and get a mac that can run windows as well? Pony up the extra bucks and get the quality and design factor that apple has come to be known for.

rip @ Aug 7th 2006 6:00PM

@ Brian:

Where are you getting your pricing? And what cpu are using? AMD Dual core opteron? And 2 of them?

If you are I find your pricing ridiculous. A 2.4 Ghz Dual core opteron Italy from newegg costs $869. $675 for the Denmark. And try over $1000 for a 2.66.

Good luck finding a machine with 2 of them for $1900.

As usual, more FUD.

KBeat @ Aug 7th 2006 6:02PM

This is almost as much fun as 360 vs. PS3 vs. Wii. Not quite, but almost. If you're an entrenched Windows user a new Mac Pro isn't going to mean much to you. No doubt you're excited about all those tasty new Vista features (insert your own Mac OSX 2002 joke here). But for us Mac users this is a fantastic looking new machine. I'll still do most of my gaming on the consoles, but it's nice to know "Crysis" is a possibility now, should I feel the need.

howhow @ Aug 7th 2006 6:04PM

rip @ Aug 7th 2006 6:06PM

@linux guy:

Show me a windows PC with "pretty much the same specs for much less money."

Seriously. Otherwise STFU about pricing.

Big Ed @ Aug 7th 2006 6:17PM

Big deal! The Mac Pro isn't designed for playing games. You're an idiot if you pay $1,500+ on a computer to play games. You could blow $4,000 on a Dell or Alienware, or could spend $400 and get a Xbox. Crysis is already planned to launch for the 360 and the PS3, so there's no need to waste hundreds of dollars every year to upgrade your PC.

Brian @ Aug 7th 2006 6:18PM

@Rip,

aha, I misread the the MacPro default as 2.0ghz instead of 2.6. That changes the price differential a bit (by $300). You're quite right, though, bumping the AMD system to 2.6ghz does raise the cost a lot. Of course, I haven't seen a benchmark comparing the two by ghz, so I'm not sure what an equivalent processor would really be.

My major beef with Macs is the cost of upgrading. $300 to add one gig of ram?? $350 to upgrade from a $80 videocard to a $330 videocard?

Stuff like that bugs the hell outta me since I can't afford it. Godspeed if you can.

Ross Jernigan @ Aug 7th 2006 6:29PM

To Comment 4

I love how you put WOW as a PC game, but it works on Mac OS too...and it's even Universal so it is optimized on Intel based Macs too.

Good one.

GSI @ Aug 7th 2006 6:32PM

SOrry but if you buy a PC from Alienware, Falcon Northwest, Voodoo PC, etc. then you must like wasting your money.

Just b/c you (over) spend on a PC from them doesn't make it better then something you can build yourself. In fact both the laptops AND PCs that you can buy from those companies, you can get elsewhere for A LOT cheaper.

KBeat @ Aug 7th 2006 6:32PM

@Brian

You're right about the cost of upgrading memory directly from Apple. It's WAY overpriced. Most of us savvy Mac users buy our memory from crucial.com or the like and save a bunch of money. It's very easy to upgrade the memory on the Mac towers, so there's no need to get it from Apple.

@Big Ed

It would indeed be stupid to buy a $4,000 machine just to play games. But most of us have many uses for our computers far beyond games, and the ability to play the latest and greatest games is an added benefit. It's by no means the only reason for all that horsepower.

BTW: Thanks Christopher for keeping a fairly steady flow of Mac gaming news coming. I know Mac gaming is a relatively small market, so it's appreciated. Keep up the good work!

Ross Jernigan @ Aug 7th 2006 6:43PM

To #40:

Actually, Digg had an article the other day with a 1gig stick of ram compatable with new Macs for $60 bucks. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

I think many people make the mistake that just because Macs cannot run everything that Windows can that Macs are less functional. But for all those Windows apps (well, the good and well known ones...not those 5 dollar DVD rippers from Office Depot), there is as Mac counterpart which usually runs and perfiorms better.

Big Ed @ Aug 7th 2006 6:53PM

@KBeat

I'm sorry for any rash assumptions I have made, but several posters act as if the Mac Pro is a meant for high-end gaming, such as an Alienware or Dell XPS. If you don't believe these to brands are not mean for gaming, go to the websites. The Mac Pro is made for use with high-end developing programs and other Pro apps. The Dell XPS and Alienware brands are heralded as gaming PC's.

KoolAidMan @ Aug 7th 2006 7:01PM

Guys, this are dual dual-core XEONS we are talking about. What Apple is offering costs LESS than what Dell is selling a comparable system for. And you people that are saying you could build your own system for less money, please, tell me how. I would LOVE to know where I could buy dual Woodcrests for such a great price.

Oh, wait, you can't.

Yes, you can build a gaming machine for a lot less but these are workstations we are talking about. If you want to make comparisons then don't make it with an $200-$300 AMD CPU you intend on overclocking.

Kids.

pixelator @ Aug 7th 2006 7:06PM

MacOS isn't perfect. It is confining. It's not meant for tweaker/poweruser types. It has a very limited software base. Who cares how slick it looks if it doesn't actually DO anything better, faster or easier? I find it to be none of the above, except more devoid of the accrual of spyware/malware - the one true Mac advantage now that the hardware and benchmarks are all the sameness from Intel.

rip's $5300 Dell is wrong - Go to Dell add the thing up yourself (hint: 'superdrive' = basic DL DVD-R/CD-RW 16x). The real Dell price for the same system is $4742, which is most likely subject to the many Dell coupons you can readily find online. In short, the Apple is still more expensive.

Jay @ Aug 7th 2006 7:13PM

Yea, for a similar system by Dell or Alienware you're paying more than a Mac Pro. I love the "mac costs more" ranting. My PowerBook (READ PowerBook, not these new intel machines) cost LESS than my laptop with double its specs but running a lot slower. maybe it was the anti-virus and security apps slowing it down? But the machine was cack.

I love these Apple/PC myths. PC's can do more? bwhahaa. there was a poster at the Apple show "OSX Leapord = Vista 2.0" or something. they couldn't give away too much details about their next OS because Microsoft is reknowned for copying them. Just look at Vista against Tiger. Hilarious! Tiger has been out for a fair while now too. Since I switched to Mac in Feb of last year I have only been laughing.

jarod @ Aug 7th 2006 7:13PM

I'll tell you guys what -

Ive been a hardcore pc gamer for almost 20 years. ive built dozens of computers, have a water-cooled rig, a storage unit packed with dozens of moniters, cases, and hundreds of parts, and my basement has 8 PCs in it LANned up for multiplayer, and they can all run the DOOM3 engine at 40+fps. All my money goes into PC's and videogames.

AND - I have to format my damn computer every 3-4 months. I either get a virus, irreparable adware infestation, some BS windows glitch that wipes a hard drive or two, or a piece of hardware dies and ends up F-ing my whole setup.

I am SICK AS HELL of having to upgrade every 2-3 months, deal with the horrible abortion known as windows, fix my stuff constantly, and deal with it being JUST PLAIN SLOW, despite how many hundreds of dollars I sink into this box, and I know what I'm doing. I worked part time during school making house calls fixing other people's pathetic excuses for a PC.

I bought an iBook for art school a while back, and it has locked up twice. TWO TIMES over a period of three years, and I used it daily. It starts up when I want it to, shuts down in less than the four weeks it takes windows to, and everything works when I want it to.

OSX is just plain friendlier, faster, stable, safer, all-around BETTER. In 2-3 months, when I have the cash in hand, I'm plunking down 4 G's for a Mac Pro and selling off all my PC stuff. Good riddance.

EX-PC fanatic signing off.