Xbox 360 gamepad not cutting it, XBLA in need of joystick
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Aug 9th 2006 at 5:25PM }
Gaming Bits complains of difficulties using the standard Xbox 360 controller for Xbox Live Arcade titles, including Frogger, Galaga, Street Fighter II, and now Pac-Man. The only current solution is to track down a Hori Dead or Alive 4 Xbox 360 Arcade Stick ($39.99–$59.99) -- or re-wire an arcade joystick you already own. Sounds like it's time for Microsoft to deliver with some first party support.We know Wii will feature a specialized controller (sold separately, or perhaps included in a special bundle) for use with the Virtual Console service -- we've even tried it out. So will Microsoft follow suit? With so many retro arcade-based titles in need of a true joystick option, how could they not?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
dsub @ Aug 9th 2006 5:35PM
"We know Wii will feature a specialized controller (sold separately, or perhaps included in a special bundle) for use with the Virtual Console service -- we've even tried it out. So will Microsoft follow suit?"
The difference here is that you are asking for a joytick. Nintendo's "Virtual Console Controller" doesn't exactly fix that need either. It's no better suited to play these arcade titles than the current 360 gamepad is. However, MS did come through with a Wireless Racing Wheel, so perhaps a wireless arcade joystiq isn't too far fetched.
I just want to say again that the Wii will feature a specialized controller because basically, Nintendo has no choice, the Virtual Console controller is the only way people will be able to play games like Mario 64 with a standard gamepad. With Nintendo, a gamepad was necessary for the Virtual Console, with MS, an arcade joystiq is more of a player preference.
logikil @ Aug 9th 2006 5:35PM
Man i hope so. MS had a pretty close relationship with Sega so why not see about that ole saturn controller...huh, huh?
But yeah getting a Hori stick would be ideal.
Player1 @ Aug 9th 2006 5:35PM
How bout trying the analog stick? It seems to me that it resembles an arcade joystick more than a d-pad.
v @ Aug 9th 2006 5:35PM
How about this one?
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/16/joystiq-tgs-xbox-360s-new-controller-doa-themed/
joe @ Aug 9th 2006 5:38PM
Seems to me that Microsoft just needs a decent d-pad. I can barely navigate the 360 dashboard with the current one.
nikescream @ Aug 9th 2006 5:53PM
While playing pac man this morning needing a joystick was the first thought that came to mind. Some games just flow better with a joystick...
molecule @ Aug 9th 2006 5:58PM
found @ http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=141767&skip=yes
SIMPLER XBOX 360 CONTROLLER ON THE WAY?
"...Shoulder buttons, triggers, analog sticks, d-pads, I mean, there's a lot going on there when you compare it to the old ***Atari 2600 button-and-stick***, which everybody could pick up and have some fun with," he said.
Moore continues by mentioning that his 14-year old daughter finds the Xbox 360 controller a bit complicated, but that Microsoft is "doing a lot of stuff there. Nothing that we're ready to talk about, and we're not going to force anything that is not going to be intuitive and innovative."
Presumably Moore is hinting at some kind of alternate Xbox 360 controller in the works, with a simplified control scheme. A simpler controller could work well with Live Arcade games, and with the success of Arcade titles like Geometry Wars and Uno, we're sure that more than a few people would shell out for the new pad.
Coincidence? I think not. ;)
AoE @ Aug 9th 2006 6:01PM
"Sounds like it's time for Microsoft to deliver with some first party support."
Or better yet, time for x-arcade to release an xbox360 adapter :) No other home console arcade sticks cut it compared to the x-arcade. I've got a doa hori stick right now, and while it's good for a console stick... it's a POS compared to the x-arcade.
moominsean @ Aug 9th 2006 6:02PM
i use a 360 gamepad on my cpu for all my emulator stuff. works fine....better than any pc based joypad, for sure.
Md @ Aug 9th 2006 6:08PM
I own an X-Arcade stick and I'd recommend it to anyone looking for an arcade quality stick. Unfortunately, here's what they say about their 360 adapter:
When Is Xbox 360™ Adapter Coming?
We are receiving daily inquires regarding Xbox 360 adapter availability and if you weren't already aware of it, Microsoft™'s prohibitive policy for third-party controller support will drastically delay any releases from 3rd-party hardware makers like us.
FMB @ Aug 9th 2006 6:33PM
I see no problem with using the thumb-stick. Who uses the D-Pad for navigation of Arcade games anyways? And last i checked, the Xbox 360 was a next gen gaming machine.
Domingo @ Aug 9th 2006 6:37PM
I'd give anything for someone to simply re-wire a PS2 pad to work with the 360 and turn around and sell it. I'd pay $30-40 for something that worked properly. There's nothing like planying Zangief (and doing pretty well at it), but only pulling off the SPD once out of every 25 attempts. Whenever a jab is blocked or landing...they should be in the air. Unfortunately the 360's d-pad is misplaced and the analog isn't SPD friendly so I'm stuck settling for far less effective means. Gimme a PS2 pad adapter or even just a new 360 pad with the analog and d-pad reversed!
logikil @ Aug 9th 2006 6:40PM
Umm....but the connector is just a freakin usb cable?
Retro @ Aug 9th 2006 6:53PM
XBLA isn't in need of a joystick.. the only game that requires a proper on is SFII HF. I just downloaded Pac-Man today and it works very nice with the 360's analog stick.
Deadpool @ Aug 9th 2006 7:19PM
I don't know why everyone is complaing about the 360 controller. I've been doing just fine in SFII with the analog stick. SHORYUKEN!!!
Pc @ Aug 9th 2006 7:22PM
I do agree that the d-pad on the 360 controller is the worst i have ever used !!! However the joystick seems to work just fine for everything except SF2HF.
My Dead Rising Demo Review @ Aug 9th 2006 7:28PM
Yeah, I played pac-man earlier (with D-Pad and then Analog) and both times I ended up going down the wrong route due to lack of precision. And, yeah I've had consoles since the Atari VCS so it's not because I can't steer straight ;)
I really like the xbox360 controller for everything else (racing especially) but the d-pad is terrible. A simple wireless retro pad along the lines of a NES gamepad or Atari joystick would be perfect for these retro games.
ninja @ Aug 9th 2006 7:40PM
Just one question for 360 owners...
So how much have you spent so far on your 360? Not games; just console, parts, service, etc.
SportsUnit @ Aug 9th 2006 7:47PM
It is kind of lame that Microsoft calls it the XBLA, yet there is no talk of a first party arcade stick coming in the future.
Brad Lee @ Aug 9th 2006 8:03PM
I would have bought the DOA Arcade stick, but the place I ordered it from was filled with assclowns. I was told my order was delayed because they needed to order more. Thats fine. But a month later I sent an email to them saying "Where's my order?" "Oh, it will come it about a week." I was told. A week rolls by. "Where is my order?" "Oh, it will come in about a week." This happened one more time before I snapped and told the bastards to cancel my order entirely. Then, I would have bought it from another store but DOA enraged me one too many times and I ended up breaking the disc in half and throwing it in the trash.
From that experience I've decided that perhaps fighting games are not my thing.
However, if I were at all enthusiastic about SFII: Hyper Fighting then I'd like an arcade stick. The 360 pad just blows for fighting games, analog stick or D-pad. Hey, heres an idea, why doesn't Capcom just make a SFII: Hyper Fighting Arcade Stick for 360?
Wanker @ Aug 9th 2006 8:21PM
Can you not just use the X-Arcade joystick with the USB connector on the 360?
wanderer @ Aug 9th 2006 8:21PM
Someone should point out that you can't use any currently existing arcade sticks with the Xbox 360 as implied in the article. Microsoft requires controlers to have their secret authorization code embedded. Old stuff doesn't work. And here's a list of companies they're currently licensing this to:
...
ManekiNeko @ Aug 9th 2006 8:43PM
I tried the joystick mod shown on Gamers' Reports, and it worked pretty well. It's not as well suited to Street Fighter II Hyper Edition as one would think (although the joystick I used for the mod is probably to blame for this), but for old-school arcade games like Galaga and Robotron: 2084, it's fantastic.
Someone's working on a Sega Saturn controller converter right now, but I don't know when it'll be finished or available to the public.
What I don't understand is why someone just doesn't make a Y-cable for the Xbox 360, with a USB port on one end and ports for the Saturn and Playstation on the other end. That way, the Xbox 360's security protection could easily be defeated.
JR
Sysgen @ Aug 9th 2006 9:18PM
Try the 360 dpad mod.
http://www.ufighterx.com/guides/videogame/360dpadfix/360dpadfix.htm
dsub @ Aug 9th 2006 9:19PM
"Just one question for 360 owners...
So how much have you spent so far on your 360? Not games; just console, parts, service, etc."
Well, to answer your question, I spent $400 on the console, $50 on a second controller, and $60 on each of my 6 games except for Table Tennis, which was $39.
So that totals out to around $790 plus tax. All this has been spent over the course of time since launch. I noticed that you mentioned service costs, but I don't know anyone who's had to spend a dime getting their 360 fixed. My 360 crapped out on me after 3-4 months, but MS took care of everything and had a brand new working 360 back to me in 10 days. Plus they let me keed my HDD so I didn't lose my saves.
I'm assuming you are implying that 360 owners are spending large unusual amounts of money on there 360's and all the accessories that go with it. Implying that owners of other consoles will not encounter these expenses. I assure you, that no matter what "next-gen" console you buy, you will spend an amount of money that is in the vicinity of what I have spent on my 360. Lets lay out the numbers. If I were to get everything I've gotten for 360 for the nintendo Wii:
Wii Console: $250
Extra Wiimote: $50
6 games: $300
Total: $600 (that's assuming your not buying a USB HDD to get the storage, if so add another $50-100)
PS3 console: $500-600
Extra Controller: $50 (although I won't be surprised when it's $60)
6 games: $360
Total: $910-1010 depending on which console you buy
so you see, compared to the Wii and PS3, the 360 really isn't much different in price. It's almost on par with the Wii if you get the 360 core unit instead of the premium. While the PS3 is far more expensive than the other two.
NES @ Aug 9th 2006 9:35PM
I really see what nintendo is gonna do considering that each console had drastically different controller...the virtual console controller i saw looked like an snes pad with analog sticks but what about the c/camera direction bottons and that z crap and all the other crap stashed in the back of Nintendo controllers
StickGuy @ Aug 9th 2006 9:50PM
I told a few friends of mine weeks ago to get the DOA4 stick for arcade games since they would be hard to find after SFII hit and I was right.
The DOA4 stick is perfect for XBLA and it gives me a totally unfair advantage in SFII online. I recommend it to anyone playing an XBLA game!
otakucode @ Aug 9th 2006 10:13PM
I wouldn't wire up your own arcade stick just yet... you would be breaking the Xbox Live terms of serice and they could cancel you, download software to your 360 to prevent your stick or any of your other games from every working again, etc. Read through it some time, it's pretty nice and broad and draconian.
Does anybody know if you can still play XBLA games you have bought if you get banned from Live?
Supra @ Aug 9th 2006 10:45PM
@dsub
Go back to grade one. Need to work more on addition.
obo @ Aug 9th 2006 10:45PM
"compared to the Wii and PS3, the 360 really isn't much different in price"
I don't know about you, man, but $190 is a lot of money to me.
Joystiq always makes me feel so goddamn _poor_.
The ZeroCorpse @ Aug 9th 2006 11:05PM
"Just one question for 360 owners...
So how much have you spent so far on your 360? Not games; just console, parts, service, etc."
Personally? Do you really want to know?
I won my Xbox 360 from 1UP.com, so it was free. And then (using an employee discount at a big box store when I worked there) I bought an additional controller for $15.49, a silver faceplate for $9, a VGA cable for $24.99 and a vertical stand for $11.29 (prices approximate, from memory). I already had the HDTV and VGA monitor, so I won't count those in the price (even so, the TV was considerably cheaper than you'd expect with my discount).
So, all told, my entire Xbox 360 setup cost me a grand total of $60.77 (not including games- Oblivion SE, GTA:SA, Crimson Skies, Star Wars Battlefront II).
Yes, kiddies, I spent less than $61 for my Xbox 360 and accessories. You may now hate me out of jealousy, and suck it.
The ZeroCorpse @ Aug 9th 2006 11:10PM
Oh, yeah--- Not counting downloads, either. I have every Oblivion download, and a bunch of XBLA games.
And I don't count Xbox Live because I already had a subscription, and just transferred it over to the 360 when I got it.
Lord Meph @ Aug 10th 2006 10:52AM
My first preference would be a SNES-X360 adaptor. I know that it would have to be an "unofficial" accessory because of M$'s restictive 3rd party policy, but I'd buy it.
Secondly would be the X-Arcade joystiq (natch), which is an excellent piece of hardware. I used to have one but sold it like an idiot years ago.
And yes, I would pay $99 for an x-arcade stick just so that I can accurately and consistently execute a Dragon Punch on a $10 XBLA game.
Question: Has anyone here tried the MADCATZ 360 controller for SF2? Im referring to the newer version of that controller (it has a matte finish instead of the original glossy finish).
I bought the Joytech controller, and the d-pad is definitely better for SF2 than the M$ controller, but it still doesnt hold a candle to the SNES (or Saturn) controller.....
Lord Meph @ Aug 10th 2006 10:57AM
"I wouldn't wire up your own arcade stick just yet... you would be breaking the Xbox Live terms of serice and they could cancel you"
Posted at 10:13PM on Aug 9th 2006 by otakucode
Umm, how exactly would M$ know what kind of controller I was using? Answer: they wouldnt. They have absolutely no way of knowing if I soldered wires from the "licensed" controller to, say, an arcade stick.
The data sent to the system would be unchanged from the "unmodified" controller. They have no way of knowing this at all, so I wouldnt worry about it.
Just dont let them catch you using it on the XBLA Camera, lol!
James McGovern @ Aug 10th 2006 3:28PM
Check out http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/ for more information than you could ever want about brewing your own arcade controls and cabinets.
Also, check out RetroBlast for arcade system and component reviews - http://www.retroblast.com/index.php
Quasimoto Interactive is working one complete systems that will feature 360 support as well.
Eddie Phanichkul @ Aug 10th 2006 4:55PM
We will have the 360 and PS3 adapters for the Quasimoto Quasicade and our patented controller system very soon. Check back with www.quasimoto.com and www.retroblast.com.
Brad Lee @ Aug 10th 2006 6:04PM
"Just one question for 360 owners...
So how much have you spent so far on your 360? Not games; just console, parts, service, etc."
Lets see, I bought a Premium 360 from a friend for $400, which also included an extra controller and DOA4. I already had XBoxLive, so that doesn't count. Eventually, I bought a MadCatz (I think it was MadCatz anyway) controller to play DOA4 with tighter control, since the 1st party 360 d-pad blows. That cost $30. So I guess just console and accessories wise I spent $430, which was actually split in half because I went 50/50 on it with my brother.
Including games would be a different story. Even though I have a Gamefly account and rarely buy games, I still bought a few. I bought Full Auto (mistake), GRAW (another mistake), Oblivion (definitely NOT a mistake), and Dead Rising (so far, not a mistake). However, I also bought a couple of them at discount used GF prices (bought Oblivion for $40!). So even adding in games, thats only another $200. And I didn't need to add any of that, because I have a GF account. I just bought them anyway because I wanted to keep them. Oh, I guess you could add in XBLA games too. But, even then thats only another $30 (Geometry Wars, Joust, Mutant Storm, and Zuma).
The cost really isn't /that/ bad, but then again I doubt the price of the PS3 will really be /that/ bad either. Even still, I don't plan on buying one any time soon because I already have a 360. Its the same with DS and PSP. I already have a DS and 360, so I can wait till the price drops on Sony's machines.
Price is only a factor when value is concerned, or if you have no money. I believe I have recieved at least $430 worth of entertainment from my 360, so I think it was well worth it. I'm a poor college student, but I can easily scrounge up enough money to pay for my hobby. If you can't, then maybe you need a new hobby.
CAPTAIN PAINFUL @ Aug 10th 2006 7:32PM
Give me a break you freeking nerds of nerds... I love playing Galaga, I loved it on arcade and I'm lovin' it all over again...
oooh I can't play it so I must need a joystick???? W.T.F.? Just enjoy it you n00bs
Ed Farias @ Aug 10th 2006 10:31PM
Here at Arcade-In-A-Box we have thrown around the idea of creating a 360 arcade controller for the 360. With the problems that x-arcade stated, we would have to go about it a different way (most likely using hacked controllers, but possibly making the arcade sticks wireless as well).
We have the plan all drawn up, and they even include a jack for your live headset. The reason we have not done a prototype yet is simply because we not sure it will sell at the price point we are looking at (150-180 dollars per). That's a guess right now, it could drop down a bit lower depending on which controllers work best to take apart and use.
Anyway, if there does seem to be some interest at that price point, we might go ahead and prototype one.
Thanks.
RyanV @ Aug 11th 2006 11:27AM
Personally I'm just not going to purchase any more XBLA games until they get us a better controller to use with it.
I shouldnt have to sand or completely rewire my controllers in order for them to work.
as much as i love playing all the old school games, the 360 controller being so bad takes all the fun out of it.
GoPodular.com @ Aug 12th 2006 6:22PM
Hello? Is this thing on?
http://www.gopodular.com/swappable_cartridge_encoders/microsoft_xbox_360_arcade_cartridge.htm
We'll know on Monday (8/12/06) if we can support the official headset, who designed that stupid curved plug anyhow? The webpage will be updated to reflect this info once the new cartridge design is complete (should be Monday).
btw: The trigger buttons *will* be supported in the new revision.
Random pics:
http://www.gopodular.com/001_images/carts/playstation_cart_mounted.jpg
http://www.gopodular.com/001_images/cpo_pics/cpo_cloud_dragon_1.jpg
Feel free to email with any questions.