NY Times: Game stigma is industry's fault
New York Times reporter Seth Schiesel was one of a select few to attend Ziff Davis' Electronic Game Summit in the wine country of California. He used the opportunity to reflect on the "look at all the freaks" mainstream coverage of E3 and the game industry's image problemSchiesel argues that games are not yet something that most adults will admit to spending time on and that game companies have to market themselves differently to get over this stigma. He noted Nintendo's marketing strategy as a hopeful step, but warned the rest of the industry that they may end up like the comic book industry -- marginalized for decades as a childish diversion.
Do you still notice a stigma about your video game playing, or do people treat playing games as just another form of entertainment now?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
ACE @ Aug 15th 2006 11:01AM
"Schiesel argues that games are not yet something that most adults will admit to spending time on and that game companies have to market themselves differently to get over this stigma. "
Well if they dont want to admit to spending time on them, maybe they just dont like playing video games. Let the people do what they want. Screw you Schiesel.
confucious say fanboy don't know better .. . @ Aug 15th 2006 11:05AM
i'm 23 and when i tell people that my girlfriend and i play ALOT of games it's always recieved with a chuckle or a "awwww, isn't that cute" sort of respone.. . as if just because i play games it's something childish or i'm childish .. .
PachuyiChomp @ Aug 15th 2006 11:08AM
That's it exactly! The Wii is going to make adults want to play with Nintendo's grand marketing scheme. Being able to make crude jokes in front of your kids "Timmy go play with your wii" is definatly putting me on line launch day.
Or maybe showing Diehard nintendo fanboys flopping around like an Albatros trying to give flight with the Wii controllers will move it into the mainstream light.
Sure am glad Nintendo are supporting the fight to lose the mainstream stigmatism associated with games like DDR that conjurs up images of coach potatoes slathered up in sweat.... Thanks guys...
Haha I sure can't wait to get my hands on my Wii, see ya guys on launch day :) Who cares what the main stream thinks?
Fan @ Aug 15th 2006 11:10AM
Games have become just another past time. I work as a doorman(while completing my studies) and I hear people, who are waiting in line to get in, talk about playing playstation and xbox all the time.
The other day I saw a white guy with huge dreadlocks, he had the Nintendo logo tatooed on his lower forarm. He must have been 30 something.
Derbeste @ Aug 15th 2006 11:16AM
"Do you still notice a stigma about your video game playing, or do people treat playing games as just another form of entertainment now?"
You know the wonderful thing about being a gamer?
I don't care. ;)
Mal F4cti0n @ Aug 15th 2006 11:20AM
29 White male.
I had a Genesis in High School and then bought an Xbox after playing Halo on a friends system about 3 years ago. I upgraded to a 360 since.
I have been hooked ever since, mainly because of Xbox Live. If not for Live I would rarely play. I used to love RPGs, but when I played Oblivion I just couldn't get into it, too boring. I play Halo 2 and COD 2 when I play because of the interaction.
I used to tell stories at work about funny things that happened or were said by starting out, "I was playine [game] on xbox and this guy said...." I would catch no ends of shit for it. Now when I tell a story, I just leave that part out or I don't say anything at all.
Its funny too, because there have been about five or six friends that have at some point played on Live and went out, bought an Xbox and now have an account.
It is just ignorance.
Subnet6 @ Aug 15th 2006 11:27AM
I'm in my 30s and an avid gamer. I definitely feel a little self conscious when I'm at the mall and I pop into the local gamestop to see whats on the shelf/bargain bin and theres a 14 year old standing next to me looking at the same stuff.
I guess I just never made the transition from being a young guy playing video games to being a not-so-young guy watching NFL and NBA all weekend. I have never really been into watching sports on TV so video games have just always filled that place for me.
At first my wife thought it was odd that her husband was interested in video games into adulthood, but when I made the analogy with sitting around watching sports (which she sees as a normal adult male passtime) then she didn't seem to thinks its so odd.
I really hope the video games can get more mainstream so that when I'm 40 and still playing I don't have to hide my head in shame.
Ptaaty @ Aug 15th 2006 11:30AM
A bit outdated, almost everyone (male) I know under 35 plays games. There isn't much stigma anymore, it is mainstream.
Petrie @ Aug 15th 2006 11:31AM
The gentleman is correct about the negative stigma video games carry with them.
Everywhere I've ever worked or gone to school, as soon as I mention being a gamer, and that I hope to break into the games industry, I'm met with a plethora of negative remarks. It becomes worse when the specifics come up and I let it be known that my gaming does not consist of GTA and Madden, but in fact everything from Guitar Hero to Kirby.
What really confuses me is many of these same people will discuss their drug-induced or drunken escapades they go through on a near-nightly basis, and somehow try and convince me how much more mature those sorts of hobbies are. Or they'll be discussing how some NFL team is doing, as if that is any different from discussing how Sony or Nintendo is doing. And for the record, it isn't any different, sports teams are money making entities that are bought and sold, and rooting for one is no different than being any other kind of fanboy.
Where did this negative view of our culture come from? I for one am not sure. You could blame it on the marketing of old, or try and claim Nintendo caused it with a "kiddy" image, or that games are just looked as as childish in nature, since adults apparently shouldn't play them. Or is there some other deep-seeded reason games continue to carry this idea that those who play them are immature and can't ahve any sort of depth. When someone tells me it's impossible that I'd have a girlfriend being that I enjoy spending much of my free time with my PS2 or DS, there is a serious problem with the image we carry. You'd never hear a comment like that about someone who goes clubbing every night, so why the negativity here?
Francois @ Aug 15th 2006 11:32AM
There's definitely a stigma. The other day, I was waiting in line at a film festival, a genre film festival mind you, for an asian horror film no less, and since Nintendo was sponsoring the event, they had reps handing out DS Lite's with Brain Age and Tetris as part of the Touch Generations tour. When the rep approached the girls (mid to late 20s) next to me and asked them if they wanted to try a game that let them calculate their brain age, they belched out a very striking "NO". It could have been anything and they would have refused, just because of the Nintendo logo and the fact it was video games. And these girls weren't even what we could consider the "mainstream".
J B Cougar @ Aug 15th 2006 11:38AM
Spend an hour playing any game on Xbox Live and have the voice chat enabled. And we wonder why there is a stigma?!
Bob @ Aug 15th 2006 11:41AM
Wow... does this mean that there are closet gamers in America? Maybe in the nineties, but this article is a decade behind. The three big hats (Microsoft, Nintendo, and Playstation) already know that video games should be made for a variety of people, and more importantly is that video games can and should be something no one is ashamed of. Two days ago, I had a customer in her 60's inquiring about a Nintendo DS for her grandchild. Per my request, she tried it. Yesterday I recieved a phone call saying: "Thank you young man, but why did no one think to make a Sudako like game before this?"
Mostly because one decade ago, everyone believed video games was something you grew out of. Today, it is an entertainment device we grow up with.
George @ Aug 15th 2006 11:42AM
I think there is a stigma. I am a married 30 year old Product Designer. (Currently addicted to Mario Kart DS.) The only place to buy games in Austin is Gamestop, Wal-Mart, or Target. Gamestop sucks, I have to deal with some Comic Book Store Guy every time I go in there. Then I have to give all kinds of information just to buy a game that isn't sealed! I wish someone would open a game store that feels cool when you walk in. I have been to plenty of cool toy stores and comic book stores that attract hip professionals. Why not a video game store? We have the money to spend. And there are plenty of people who would prefer to never set foot in a gamestop or game crazy.
George
Gonzo @ Aug 15th 2006 11:50AM
I only get the feeling that there's a stigma attached to gaming when I talk with old people about it. An old lady even asked how old I was once. I told her the truth then stated that I know folks who are "even older than you[her]" who play games. That seemed to shut her up for the rest of the party.
Old people are usually only interested in technology that allows them to get attention & irritate others. But their generations continue to die out and soon the old people will be the ones who played the earliest video games as kids.
Scooby Doo @ Aug 15th 2006 11:53AM
I would definitely say there's still something of a stigma attached to being a gamer. The Nintendo days are probably the biggest culprit of where we are today.
However I actually do care about mainstream acceptance. While being relegated as a niche hobby has its advantages, we lose out on having an established presence as a viable form of entertainment. Just imagine what games could come out if more investor's were willing to put up capital for big-budget titles like they do with the movies.
And of course press coverage would increase and there might be a lot more reliable sources for information that actually check their facts. You'd probably see a lot more trade shows, more demos, more advertising. It might also change some political aspects on gaming.
It's kind of strange. The revenues definitely show that gaming is as big (I actually think total revenues are bigger in the US) as mainstream movies, but since it's such a niche market with a much smaller audience, we're not given the credit and recognition that we're due.
ALH @ Aug 15th 2006 11:57AM
Stigma is alive and well unfortunately. It doesnt help when you're female and into games too, i mean, at least guys are 'expected' to be gamers- even if its to the extent of buying the yearly sports games- its a whole other ball park when you're female and every girl around you either looks down on you for your hobby...or just doesnt quite 'get' it.
One time I was at a family party and it came up that I spend the majority of my Student Loan money on games rather than alcohol, and my 30-odd year old cousin turned round with such a shocked look on his face, saying 'uuugghh, you play GAMES?'
The irony? I'm at uni on a Game Art course.
Its not all doom and gloom though-Nintendo has the right idea - I find it much easier to introduce members of my family to partake a game like Wario ware or Project Rub than I do for something like Resident Evil 4. People in general like gadgets, Mobile phones and Ipods wouldnt be so big otherwise- so if you can grab them in with a gimmick like blowing into a microphone, or rubbing a virtual coin? News spreads and soon everyone wants a go.
msdarnell @ Aug 15th 2006 12:02PM
Nothing like talking to a guy still rocking a mullet and a torn Def Leppard T-Shirt try to look down on you for playing video games.
I was buying a 360 at Wal-Mart when this guy came up behind me in line and starting talking loudly to his heifer of a wife/sister about "grown men playing games." I turned around, smiled and said "Grown men who play games, and know how to take a bath. Nice mullet, bro. The 80's are over."
Granted, the guy weighed about 110lbs (mullet wax included) but it was still sweet.
SonicRift @ Aug 15th 2006 12:03PM
To get into stores, Nintendo marketed the NES as a toy, and had a partnership with toy company Matel. I assume this all comes from a belief that toys are for kids, and video games are toys.
I have some pretty heated arguments about this subject. This is why, I think, alot of people can't comprehend why games like Grand Theft Auto could be rated for people over 17, when video games are for kids. Meanwhile, I hear on the local news in November that the Xbox 360 is for people 40+ (hey, a sensationalist has to sensationalize SOMETHING).
I know alot of guys who had a NES and SNES or Genesis, skipped the N64/Playstation era because they "grew out of it", and got back into games sometime in the middle of the XBox/PS2 era.
And don't get me started on the "games as art" or "games and comics as storytelling forms" debates. The mainstream defence, of course, is always, "But it's for kids."
Fandel @ Aug 15th 2006 12:51PM
You want to know the reasons why gamers have such a bad reputation? To put it bluntly, here are three reasons why.....
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=7344653&publicUserId=5380375
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/
http://www.digg.com/gaming_news/Jack_Thompson_debate_on_Attack_of_the_Show
All you need to do is read the three links above to see why most gamers are looked upon among the mainstream as "immature children". As long as we have people who have an epileptic seizure every time their favorite game console, or game subject is criticized, then the video game industry, and gamers in general will always be seated at the "kiddie" table.
Scott @ Aug 15th 2006 12:51PM
You have to admit...playing games does pale in comparison to many of the other "adult" activities that takes up people's time:
* Watching sports on TV
* Viewing porn (online or TV)
* Pounding beersdrinking way too much alcohol
* Watching TV in general...
These are fun in their own right but do they provide any more benefit than playing a PCconsole game? :)
Petrie @ Aug 15th 2006 12:54PM
All you need to do is read the three links above to see why most gamers are looked upon among the mainstream as "immature children". As long as we have people who have an epileptic seizure every time their favorite game console, or game subject is criticized, then the video game industry, and gamers in general will always be seated at the "kiddie" table.
You mean like people who will fight to the death because their favorite team loses the Super Bowl, or threaten to kill each other over American Idol voting? Your logic with regard to the "kiddie" image fails because so many other hobbies that are considered "mature" have the same, if not worse people representing them to the mainstream public, yet are still considered "mature". There is a much larger issue that is being ignored here.
Kylara @ Aug 15th 2006 12:59PM
"When are you going to stop spending your money on Nintendo and grow up, hm?"
I've been getting that since I was ten. Ten! My god, that's the target age *to* play video games. And now that I'm twenty, it's only gotten worse.
It doesn't help that I'm a girl. God, people make the most smart-ass comments, that because I (gasp!) play video games, I *of course* must have the personality of a ten year old. They oddly expect that as an adult woman I should go off and.. find something better to do with my time. Like men. That .. if I'm playing video games, this will scare off the guys.
Oddly enough, I've always felt that men and video games can come to a happy blend. Am I wrong?
Matt @ Aug 15th 2006 1:03PM
Right f'in on, Petrie!
Fandel @ Aug 15th 2006 1:21PM
Now obviously, you will find idiots who post on NFL, and American Idol fan websites and such. But the difference is that the people who do that are the in the vast minority people who watch the NHL, or American Idol. 99.9% of NFL fans, or American Idol fans are not going to care enough to spend time on fansites lobbing death threats and insults at people just because they have a difference of opinion.
Whereas, everytime a game website like Joystiq posts a story criticizing Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony, you have dozens, if not hundreds of posts by idiots who's only noticeable talent is that they can make themselves look like asses on the Internet.
ALH @ Aug 15th 2006 1:35PM
#24- Because by in large casual gamers are less likley to hit places like joystiq let alone post a reply, just like casual fans of football or reality TV arent going to throw a hissy fit if their team looses. Gaming has a far smaller casual audience than american idol and football, so we have a greater concentration of hardcore fanboys.
daCuk @ Aug 15th 2006 1:45PM
Kylara, I truly wish my girlfriend were like you....
Consider yourself a gift from Heavens!
Petrie @ Aug 15th 2006 1:47PM
We are just as much the minority as the people on NFL and AI fansites, in fact I'd go so far as to say that as a % of fans the NFL outdoes gaming with regard to how many of it's fans take things far too seriously, just go to any sports bar on a Monday Night during their season.
Kronos @ Aug 15th 2006 1:52PM
"24. Now obviously, you will find idiots who post on NFL, and American Idol fan websites and such. But the difference is that the people who do that are the in the vast minority people who watch the NHL, or American Idol. 99.9% of NFL fans, or American Idol fans are not going to care enough to spend time on fansites lobbing death threats and insults at people just because they have a difference of opinion.
Whereas, everytime a game website like Joystiq posts a story criticizing Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony, you have dozens, if not hundreds of posts by idiots who's only noticeable talent is that they can make themselves look like asses on the Internet."
thats simply because gamers are more in tune with technology and the internet in general.....
There are NFL fans and American idol fans that still dont have an email address and probably dont know how to use the basic functions on a computer....
That doesnt mean they dont have strong opinions....
That situation is less likely with someone who plays video games...
Your statement obviously wasnt thought out too well
Gary @ Aug 15th 2006 1:58PM
I'm 38 and have enjoyed a wide variety video games since the late seventies. I have no shame in buying and discussing games with anyone.
Personally, it doesn't matter to me if gaming gets more mainstream. I've been very pleased so far with the gaming industry and think that broadening the gaming demographic may just as likely screw up what I like rather than help it.
Getting Joe Blow, Jane Blow, Grandpa Blow and Grannie Blow into video games probably wont help developers make more games like Killer 7, Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga and The Oane-Chapara 2.
Brandon @ Aug 15th 2006 1:58PM
Yeah, there's a stigma. In my personal experience, it's related to what a stereotypical guy ought to do. There's this idea that men should be straight, beer-guzzling sports fanatics, and when you step off that path in any way, people look down on you. For example, my father (I'm 16) has no problem with my brother sitting in front of the TV watching ESPN all day, but 2 hours playing Halo or drawing in Photoshop is "too much." People's views on video games won't change until what's seen as masculine or adult changes.
Corbo @ Aug 15th 2006 2:01PM
Gaming certainly has something of a stigma, though what it is is hard to say. There are certainly some who consider it "kiddie" but there are also people who consider it far too violent. It's possible the two are related as people don't want to have violent videogames given to children, a sentiment I absolutely agree with, but believe that all games are targeted at children despite all the adult gamers out there.
Then again there's the stereotype of the addicted gamer, an image not helped by the media attention around that rehab clinic. Certainly there are some people with a problem but they are the minority.
There's also of course the idea of the loner gamer, sitting in his bedroom in a virtual fantasy life, which is completely at odds with the image of friends sitting on a sofa playing some sports game which crops up regularly in TV and film.
The mainstream media seems to alternately hate gamers and treat them as normal... or weird. Whatever is going to sell most papers or get more viewers.
The ZeroCorpse @ Aug 15th 2006 2:23PM
Another reason we have this stigma is because we- like the comic book readers- get an influx of dorks who feel the need to cosplay. NO ADULT takes a hobby seriously when people who are involved with it feel the need to put on costumes and run around in public.
I think the whole Japanophile thing is hurting gaming's image, too.
Yes, football fans put paint on and wear silly hats, but this is a bit different from spending months making a Master Chief costume to impress other people at a gaming convention, or running around dressed as Link, complete with tights and sword.
Also, we 30-somethings who have been gaming since we were kids in the dawn of the industry are guilty of getting online and allowing ourselves to get in geeky flame wars with 13-year-olds, so we're not exactly doing much to make gaming look "adult" in any sense.
Chinami @ Aug 15th 2006 2:24PM
I've always noticed there's a slight stigma - I've known it since before I played games... I would say, since I'm a girl, I won't play video games because they're stupid. Half of that was just me being stupid, half was that I recognized that people looked down on gamers.
And it is there, still, but it's going away. My friend... She had made an impulse buy a few days before I met her. A PSP. And that kinda shocks me - a girl, one who likes fashion and clothes and guys and all that, buying a PSP - nay, a gaming device!
And it's there, but as long as you're not 15, not 16, not a respectable age, it's not there. Not yet. I fear getting into college, unless we get rid of it. I can't go without gaming for 4 years!
EgoTripping @ Aug 15th 2006 2:50PM
There's definitely a stigma. I'm 30 and I've been playing videogames since I was little. In general, the older generations (say anyone over 40) has a negative view of videogames and those that play them. They just don't get games.
I also noticed a negative response from my fellow grad school students. Most looked at me like I was an immature fool when they asked about my interests. I guess I didn't get the memo about quitting my hobbies while earning a MBA.
Neil @ Aug 15th 2006 3:01PM
It's all who you know.
My friends play videogames so it's fine, but my girlfriend and her friends don't so it's odd when talking to them. They're older than me but I feel like I have to state the whole "the average gamer is 32" argument to them.
But still, you have to admit - you can get away with playing games about killing aliens in high school, but when you're still killing aliens 15 years later then it can become embarrassing.
free games @ Aug 15th 2006 3:13PM
The video game industry has really had a negative image for a long time. From the stigma of arcades being havens for young slackers to the realistic violence and gore of today's games, they have a lot to still overcome. But, gaming is beginning to come out to the mainstream, and that's good news for all involved.
PiratePete @ Aug 15th 2006 3:46PM
Yep, I feel there still a stigma assocated with being "32" and still playing video game. True, it's getting more accepted as time goes on but it seem that there is just so little advertising out there that shows or caters to older gamers. Forget about the in-laws. Every time it mentioned that I play video games they scowl and turn up their noises in disgust. To them a proper "fun" pass time is a wheel and stick. At least I was able to get the wife into some SNES classics Bomberman and Bonk. She won't touch any thing else. She also respects gaming as my hobby. Hey I could be hogging the TV with sports watching or gambling the rent money away at the casino.
#7 Subnet6,
That's my situation exactly. Nice to know I'm not the only one.
PiratePete @ Aug 15th 2006 4:00PM
Yeah, female gamers have it rough. But, you are appreciated.
Just stand up for what you love.
oblivionaddict @ Aug 15th 2006 4:20PM
i think the reason games are a stigma is because they are still relatively new. I mean look at movies when they first came out they were looked at as a fad but as time went on people adjusted to them mainly being the younger generations. So if you give games time to mature people will adjust to it with an open mind and those people will hold jobs where games are frowned upon such as big business and politics. then after a bit of time it will become mainstream media.
Dision @ Aug 15th 2006 4:40PM
Certainly the industry has a reason to care about public perception of gaming, but why should we? Don't you have better things to do than to care about what John Q. Public thinks of your hobbies? I, for one, am not so insecure that I need public validation of the things that I enjoy.
If you're still seeking the approbation of the cool kids, then perhaps you ought to outgrow the high school mentality.
Red Viking @ Aug 15th 2006 4:56PM
Yeah, there's a stigma. I find myself getting embarrassed whenever conversations with my girlfriend start venturing into video game territory.
Like other people have alluded to, when you think about it, there's not alot of difference between playing video games and watching sports. To begin with, they both have a near fanatical level of devotions from fans, and you have the crazy nut jobs who dress up to express their fandom. However, the key difference is that sport watching is considered an appropriate entertainment media by society. When you see a fat guy decked out in blue paint and wig at a sports stadium, you may think there's something weird about that, but, by and large, you don't think there's anything that wrong about it. HOWEVER, if you see the same fat guy decked out in, say, a Mega Man outfit, you can't help but feel embarrassed for the guy due to the sheer amount of loserdom he emits.
I think one of the main reasons is that sports are a social activity. It’s impossible to be in a stadium and not be around people. And if you happen to be at home, well, you’ve seen television: It’s all about watching the game with your buddies while drinking a couple of brewskies. Gaming, however, can be done completely by yourself and is largely perceived that way by the mainstream. That’s where you get the ‘Boys in the Bedroom’ stereotype. Sure, there’s online gaming, but, unless you’re at a LAN party, you’re still not around other people in the flesh.
Petrie @ Aug 15th 2006 7:14PM
@39
I care because gaming's negative stigma causes less money to be poured into this industry, and therefor less great innovations to occur within our industry. The less stigma, the more people, and in turn more money and better games available.
Elias @ Aug 16th 2006 6:06AM
I am 30 y.o and never stopped playing video games since I was 14 when I first purchased (or better my parents bought me) a Commodore Amiga 500.
I believe that the stigma mostly comes for people who never really bothered playing video games and dismiss them as an activity for children. According to some stats the average age of gamers today in the US is 30 y.o - this seems to be forgotten by many including some software developers.
Does it feel weird when you walk into an EB games store and you look at the same games as a 14 year old kid? Not really... Most of the times I find myself surrounded by other "30 year old kids" who share the same interest in games like I do.
Abe @ Aug 16th 2006 9:07AM
At this point in my life I don't feel like videogames have a negative stigma. Maybe that's because I'm only 19. College students are expected to game ;)
But I remember when I was a kid and my dad was in his 30's, we used to play a lot of Tekken on my PS. My dad bought me every console, he used to play a lot of videogames with me. As time passed, he stopped playing more action-oriented games and got into fishing and racing games. Right now he's in his late 40's and he does not play any videogames at all.
I really wonder why he's stopped. Not only does he not play videogames but he feels like I play too much videogames at times. Is it really 'cause he got bored? I don't think someone could get bored of all videogames overnight. I'm almost certain my dad dropped videogames to get rid of the "immature" image that is often tied with it.
I wonder if I'll end up ditching videogames in my 40's.
Josh Merker @ Dec 26th 2006 11:30AM
White male, 21. I live in Western Washington. Every male under the age of 40 of my acquaintance is into video games at some level. At the top of that range they mostly play MMORPGs (mostly WoW). Mostly PC games too. It makes sense though. We have quite a few game developers here, as well as Digi-pen and Microsoft, so people are more tech-savvy because; you can't throw something hard withoutn hitting a Microsoft employee. On the other hand I can think of maybe a handful of women I know who game regardless of age.
There's still definitely a Nintendo stigma though. People don't grow out of playing games, they just grow out of playing the childish (read: cartoony looking) ones.
P.S. I've made a frapper map (http://www.frappr.com/videogamesstigma) to see if this is regional. Just post a shout out detailing your experiences with how others react to your passtime.