Fuzzy logic: Lara Croft > Mario?

Footsteps make a very much needed point. We have yet to define "popularity".

When it comes to outright love...Link, Cloud, or even Lara might have an edge since not all that KNOW Mario....like him.

But when it comes to sheer recognizability....no one beats Mario.

I would PERSONALLY venture to say that no name has or does sell more games. Hell...I'd even go so far as to say that no name sells more SYSTEMS. Cloud, Link, and Lara are just too hardcore. Mario appeals to casuals as well.

If someone has numbers to debunk me. I'd love to see it. I'm genuinely curious.

"However, if we're going by sheer name recognition and fame, Mario clearly has everyone beat. There are those that might be liked more, but no video game character is more recognizeable than Mario.

This isn't popularity, or signifigance, or even game quality. It's merely recognition." by 32_footsteps

I had to quote this because I don't think it could be said any better than that. Mario is the most recognizable character from a video game. He may not be the most liked or even have the most diehard fans, but he is recognized more than any other video game character.

@ socrates

When did you become a gamer man? I'm just wondering because the only people I have ever met that deny Mario's importance and popularity in video games were diehard Sony fans that didn't start gaming until Playstation. That and Sega fans, but they mostly deny Mario's influence on video games out of embitterment because Nintendo crushed their consoles. But, anyone who played NES or SNES will likely admit Mario is the most recognizable character in the history of gaming, even if they have turned into Playstation or XBox fans.

"Cloud almost does all by his lonesome, and he was only in one FF game (an overrated one, in my opinion). "

And I don't even know what to say about this. Cloud didn't even make it out of video games except for that suckass straight to DVD movie that was all CG and no substance, which only gamers bought anyway. Ask any nongamer who Cloud Strife is and they'll look at you like you're retarded. Ask any nongamer who Mario is and they'll likely be able to at least tell you he was in video games. That is the point of this whole argument, who is the most recognizable video game character, and Cloud Strife doesn't come anywhere close to Mario in terms of recognition.

"(apparently their development pitch went something like this: what if we copied a Sonic style game...and put it IN SPACE!! Also with lots of twirling.). "

Again, I'm not sure what to say here. Seriously, Super Mario Galaxy has been praised as being the original, innovative, and fun game Wii needs to get going by pretty much every preview I have read about it. And where does Sonic come in? I watched several trailers and game clips and saw absolutely NOTHING that resembled a Sonic game even in the least.

And one last thing.

"I also argued that even within the gaming world, Mario's relevance will begin to fade, since kids these days are growing up more obsessed with Halo, GTA, Battlefield 2, etc. Of course all of those 20-40 year olds at E3 lined up in droves for a glimpse of Super Wiiaro [...] They aren't the group I'm talking about."

Well then, essentially you're talking about Sony fans and XBox fans. I will repeat that I believe the only reason Mario's importance is dwindling is simply because Nintendo has been losing ground since N64. But, if Nintendo reclaims old fans and creates all new fans with the Wii, then Mario will be more popular than ever.

Let me tell you all something. I remember being a kid watching the Super Mario Brothers Super Show And i have bought the entire series on DVD just most recently. Hearing debate over whether some bimbo with big ass tits is more well known than Mario..... It's just blasphemious!! Mario = nintendo and nintendo is known throughout almost of the planet.

It's like saying Soda is more healthy than water! Soda just isn't And the only good thing in soda is it's base component: Water!!

VIVA LA MARIO!!

Let me tell you all something. I remember being a kid watching the Super Mario Brothers Super Show And i have bought the entire series on DVD just most recently. Hearing debate over whether some bimbo with big ass tits is more well known than Mario..... It's just blasphemious!! Mario = nintendo and nintendo is known throughout almost of the planet.

It's like saying Soda is more healthy than water! Soda just isn't And the only good thing in soda is it's base component: Water!!

VIVA LA MARIO!!

Let me tell you all something. I remember being a kid watching the Super Mario Brothers Super Show And i have bought the entire series on DVD just most recently. Hearing debate over whether some bimbo with big ass tits is more well known than Mario..... It's just blasphemious!! Mario = nintendo and nintendo is known throughout almost the entire planet.

It's like saying Soda is more healthy than water! Soda just isn't And the only good thing in soda is it's base component: Water!!

VIVA LA MARIO!!

Man, people are really taking it out on Socrates.

Personally, I think he's right. I doubt, no matter how well the Wii does, that I will walk into a clothing store in the future and find a shirt on a rack with Mario's face on it, unless I'm in hot topic or the section of stores with terrible kitsch references. It's a bygone age.

However, I think Socrates has the reason wrong. It's not that Mario has declined, but that the average overall has risen. There are so many popular figures (Mario being the best of course) that everything is diluted enough so that no video game character can ever become such a force of popular culture again.

Lara got some movies because Eidos pushed her career and sold her chest to the highest bidder. Her success has nothing to do with her other, less silicone attributes.

One last thing - There was a chart floating around a while back of top selling franchises. For Nintendo, Mario the highest, Zelda was a fair bit lower, and Metroid was actually just a fraction of the others. Zelda is maybe more well loved by fans, but more people love mario. (Or at least, buy mario). The proliferation of plumber-games doesn't hurt, but it's certainly not the only factor.

Ans to Brad Lee:

Your guess is incorrect - Mario really defined not only my gaming childhood, but a lot of the rest of my childhood as well! SMB was the first videogame I ever played at the age of 5 (and all too briefly - my stepbrother played ALL THE WAY to 8.2 until he died...and then, after eagerly waiting for over an hour, I picked up the controller, and promptly ran into the very first Goomba. Then I had to go to bed. I nearly exploded in frustration). My proudest moment was when I showed many friends that I could beat SMB 10 times through without stopping and without warping. I loved SMB2, and SMB3 was beyond comparison at the time. It was that way for all of my friends. We would talk at school about where to throw the red vials to get the extra mushrooms, how the Princess just owns the ice world in 2, how great Kirbo's Shoe is, the Hammer suit, etc.

It is PRECISELY because of this that I am taking the position that I am. I don't think anyone who has grown up with Sunshine, NSMB, or even 64 feels the same way. It no longer lacks the cultural import or eventfulness. Some guy later states that this is simply due to the greater number of games out there - and that had something to do with it, at the time you could play SMB...or Karate (punching those midgets was damn fun, but the boner sound when you died was obnoxious).

But much more than that, the gameplay introduced in Mario games is no longer shaking the world. No new styles that shake styles of gaming...no magic moments to induce memories like the ones I talk about above. There are way more gamers now, and the nostalgia is very, very strong....but kids growing up today aren't going to develop those strong bonds to Sunshine, Galaxy, NSMB, etc. Mario's importance to our world dies when the generation of gamers (myself, and most of you all) are gone that had the NES and SNES hit in their youth.

pac-man pwns them both

My Mom still refers to any sort of gaming as "Playing Nintendo"

Such as, "You're bringing your Nintendo (read: Xbox) to college?! How are you going to study?!" or "You sit there playing Nintendo (read: PC, Red Alert 2) when you should be *yada yada*"

I think he's right, and to be honest the increasingly geeky arguments here to a certain extent confirm his point. Mario is clearly the biggest brand within the gaming world, and whether he's becoming more/less important, he's still very much within the gaming niche- any related products are aimed squarely at the tyope of consumer who enjoys playing mario games. On the other hand, the character of Lara Croft has achieved a cross-over success into the mainstream media, appealing to people outside gamers. And, as an aside, this has been done with many many fewer core products (i.e. lara croft branded games vs. mario branded games), and during a much shorter lifetime.

Mario has had so much more exposure in the gaming world though, and that's where it counts.

*Waits for an Xbox fanboy to show up and say that Master Chief is better than the both of them*

Actually, I'm going to have to agree that Pac-man owns all. He doesn't have nearly as many games as his Italian predecessor, but EVERYONE can recognize Pac-man. The character is literally an icon.

And the whole "wakka-wakka-wakka-wakka" sound he makes when he eats those pellets is just awesome.

Good point n8dogg - but Pacman is totally whipped by Ms. Pacman! Tough rock/paper/scissors thing going on here.

(actually Mathman owns them all. MathmanMathmanMathman)

@ Socrates

I do agree with you that Mario isn't as popular as he once was, I was just saying that Mario is still the most recognizable video game character in the world. Though those saying Pacman is more popular have a point as well. Most people who see a yellow 3/4 circle will probably think Pacman. But I still think Mario is more recognizable.

I also agree with you that Mario hasn't impacted the world of gaming as significantly as he once did. But I think that is more because times have changed, not so much that Mario is no longer innovative. I mean think about it, before NES there was what? Atari? Intellevision? Mario exploded video game popularity because before that all gamers had were simple games like Pong. I think Mario can't make nearly the same impact on video games or pop culture anymore simply because video games are more popular now. I mean, when there are three systems all with thriving video game icons, it is harder for Mario to make an impact. Back in the NES era, Nintendo pretty much owned video games, and as a result, every time a Mario game came out it was far more significant.

I don't think it is a problem for Mario to "whore" himself out in games like Mario Baseball, Mario Golf, etc. Gamers know the difference between a real Mario game and one that he just makes a cameo in. And games like Mario Baseball and Mario Party and all the others are only meant to be lighthearted games to play in-between the REAL Mario games (personally, I hate those games, but I don't mind Mario being in them). I don't really think it hurts his image at all to be in many different games. I think what hurts his image is when HIS games go awry, like Mario Sunshine. The worst part about that game was it just didn't feel like Mario. Mario fans don't want to clean shit up, they want to stomp goomba heads!

I think NSMB was a step in the right direction to revive Mario's legacy. It was a great combination of old-school gameplay with new-school graphics, and I think the result was remarkable, and I think the sales numbers back my claim up (even if most of them are sold in Japan).

If you asked me where Mario was headed a couple years ago, I would have said "straight down the shitter." He just hasn't been a phenomenal figure in video games recently, partially because GameCube just didn't sell that well, and also because his games weren't that fantastic. But looking to the future, I think Mario and Nintendo alike are situated for a big comeback. You say even Mario 64 didn't make that much of an impact (at least compared to the original SMB), but I disagree. I think Mario 64 defined 3D gaming for a LOT of gamers (personally, I didn't care for the game, but I know a lot of people who absolutely adored it). And from the looks of it, Super Mario Galaxy might just be the defining game for 'next gen gameplay' (as Nintendo might put it).

I mean, if Wii bombs then consider Mario a niche only market, because all he'd have left is the DS. But if Wii takes off, I think Mario might just rivitalize his pop culture image.

Regardless, I still stand by my claim that Mario is the most recognizable character in video game history. I think Tetris is probably the most recognizable GAME (either that or PONG!), but Mario is the most popular video game mascot.