Bizarre defends going after Geometry Wars clones

by Kyle Orland { Aug 17th 2006 at 12:25PM }

A few days ago, we reported on Bizarre Creations efforts to remove Geometry Wars clone Grid Wars from the internet. Bizarre recently posted an extensive justification of their actions to the community at large on their official forums.

Among Bizarre's more salient points:

Only hardcore gamers can tell the differences between these clones and Geometry Wars.
Clones weaken the brand and discourage us from releasing Geometry Wars on new platforms.
Geometry Wars is a rare example of and indie-owned, wholly original intellectual property, and that deserves protection.
Simplicity of design does not warrant theft.
Not wanting to buy an Xbox 360 does not warrant theft.

All good points, but arguments alone aren't likely to stem the tide of freely available Geometry Wars clones on the internet. At the very least, though, they might make you feel guilty for helping discourage originality in video game design. Shame on you. Shame!

[Via Gamasutra]

Tags: clones, geometry wars, GeometryWars, grid wars, GridWars, legal

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

jason @ Aug 17th 2006 12:30PM

um, isn't geometry wars a robotron clone?

v @ Aug 17th 2006 12:32PM

Gamers can't have it both ways. We can't whine about sequelitis but at the same time cut the knees out from people who are creating truly creative, innovative games.

If you want indie creativity to flourish, you need to protect it when and where it happens. That's why the copyright system exists. ... but that system may not protect game IP sufficiently.

Noel @ Aug 17th 2006 12:33PM

I'd like to see Midway sue their ass for cloning robotron. I can see being annoyed by people copying your work, but it's not like Geometry Wars appeared out of a void.

Todd @ Aug 17th 2006 12:39PM

I hated math in school. I would never play a game called "Geometry Wars" on principal. Now should the original creators of Tetris sue everyone who has put out a clone?

Brian @ Aug 17th 2006 12:42PM

@Todd

As long as they have a copyright for it, yes they should.

Urbanstorm @ Aug 17th 2006 12:42PM

This is like D&D sueing final fantasy and dragon quest , or the makers of warhammer sueing the makers of warcraft.

I played alot of of these Geometry Wars type games and the only one that I ever thought might get a legal slap was then when that was called "war on gemoetry" but they quickly changed the name....

Jeremy Gray @ Aug 17th 2006 12:45PM

I definitely heard about Geometry Wars when it came out, but at the time I couldn't really justify buying a 360 for just that and PGR3 (the only two games I REALLY, REALLY wanted for 360).

I hadn't even heard about GridWars until the takedown request was publicized.

Guess what? Now there's only one game I REALLY, REALLY want for 360 and I'm that much less inclined to buy one as a result. Good move, Bizarre, good move. Idiots.

Note to Bizarre and Microsoft's legal teams: Geometry Wars may sell 360s, but telling the world that there is a free alternative they hadn't previously known about is only going to reduce sales.

mxcl @ Aug 17th 2006 12:46PM

Check out tetris on wikipedia, the tetris company did try some sueage, but they didn't get much out of it.

I have sympathy for Bizarre as geowars rocks, and they deserve to make money out of it.

But they are making money out of it, last I heard loads of money. So I have somewhat less sympathy. And I can never sympathise with people who equate copyright violation with theft, that just gets my goat.

Derbeste @ Aug 17th 2006 12:47PM

- Hardcore gamers are the only ones buying 360s right now. The rest have no choice but to play clones. Who's fault is that?

- If clones weaken your brand THAT much, perhaps it wasn't that strong to begin with. Perhaps you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket.

- Being a rare indie company does not make you special and above the challenges of capitalism. One of which is...you need to constantly work to stay ahead of your competition. (see the challenges of "Tetris clones" or "American Idol clones" or "Zelda clones" etc.)

- Simplicity of design means that 20% differentiation required to be a new IP is just that much easier. The D-pad was simple too. Did that stop other companies?

- Not wanting to buy a 360 doesn't warrant theft, but creating a simple, XBLA game doesn't make it worth $400+ to play. Since when have pirates needed a warrant to pirate? Make your game a reasonable value if you want to discourage piracy. (see itunes music store)

v @ Aug 17th 2006 12:48PM

The owners of the Tetris IP are in fact quite willing to sue people who clone their content.

weezbs @ Aug 17th 2006 12:49PM

The problem is that all the Geometry Wars clones are exactly that, clones. At least Geometry Wars differentiated itself from Robotron a bit.

bv @ Aug 17th 2006 12:51PM

Well game developers have to realize that it's impossible to silence other creative people who create their own games from scratch based on other's ideas. How many times have we seen a GTA, Splinter Cell, Final Fight, Final Fantasy, or Tetris clone in our days? It's not like the guy who made Grid Wars stole Bizarre's code and modified it to look different. He created it based on his own imagination while still making use of the idea of Geometry wars. If you played the game, it's much slower paced and the enemies are a lot less frustrating. You can also aquire power ups as well. I think this whole macho "don't steal our Intellectual Property" crap is bad publicity. It makes the company look like a bunch of old dudes. I mean geo wars is the number 1 selling game on XBLA, why do they have to complain now? How could they possibly know if Grid Wars is affecting sales? They say that hardcore gamers can only tell the difference. Well maybe that's because hardcore gamers are the only ones playing Grid Wars. You think some 35 year old businessman is going to stumble upon some guys game website, download the grid wars exe, install the app and start playing? No! The only people that know about the game are internet junkies like myself who scour the web looking for cool stuff. Seriously it just irks me that they can't let it be. I've heard plenty of songs in my day that sound like rehashes of old ones, but no one can do a thing about it. Good ideas are usually borrowed and that tends to be the way that the video game world works.

J.Goodwin @ Aug 17th 2006 12:51PM

Cross posted from my post on BC's forum:

Robotron:
*Civilians in need of rescue for bonus points
*Quarks and Spheroids: Enemies that periodically spawn additional enemies until killed
*Entire level resets on wave changes
*Enemies have projectile weapons
*Non-shootable blocking objects

Geometry Wars:
*Gravity wells that suck in enemies and explode into a gaggle of small weak enemies if not destroyed.
*No bonus items
*No non-shootable blocking objects
*Continuous waves
*Bombs that clear the entire stage of enemies
*Weapon changes and upgrades
*Enemies do not use projectile weapons
*Waves created by enemies and weapons will cause enemies to move around distinctly from their normal direction, speed, and patterns.

Geometry Wars: NOT A ROBOTRON CLONE.

LunarDuality @ Aug 17th 2006 12:55PM

Clearly, all of you did not read the full explanation of their reasoning behind this move.

A small point they make is that is *would be insane* to buy a $400 console solely to play their game. But the big point they make (that Joystiq didn't cover) is that the similarity between this game and Robotron is not what defines a unique game.

The feel and visual style say more about uniqueness of IP than anything...and that is why they are going after games that strive to *look and feel* like Geometry Wars. If GW is indeed a new IP and part of the Robotron style shooter genre, then other game creators should create a new game *inspired* by GW and not blatantly copying the visual style and feel.

There is a world of difference IMHO between copying something and being inspired by something. And that is the crux of this issue.

Will @ Aug 17th 2006 1:01PM

Well said, LunarDuality.

Jeff @ Aug 17th 2006 1:12PM

"The problem is that all the Geometry Wars clones are exactly that, clones. At least Geometry Wars differentiated itself from Robotron a bit."

Yeah, by also ripping off Space Duel.

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=9647

+

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=9347

=

Geometry Wars

Now why the hell should I feel guilty about playing a clone of a clone again?

Get off your high horse, Bizarre.

Derbeste @ Aug 17th 2006 1:14PM

@lunar....

Two points...

1) So you can't copy the look and feel so of something? There can only be one cell shaded game? Only really dark and gothic game (ie "Devil May Cray" vs. "Castlevania")? One song per chord progression? One song that uses heavily distorted guitar? Only one boy band? Only one diva?

ANY good idea is copied in capitalism. An idea can be a look, sound, taste, smell, or feel. Welcome to the free market.

2) "A small point they make is that is *would be insane* to buy a $400 console solely to play their game."

By their own admission, then, they have made clones THAT much more enticing. Whether right or wrong, they have made downloading a clone infinitely more convenient than playing THEIR game. That's just STUPID STUPID STUPID for an indie company. You need to get your game OUT THERE to create brand LOYALTY! And they did just the OPPOSITE!

To say what they did does not warrant theft is irrelevant since thieves don't CARE if they have a warrant or not. The move DOES, however warrant the making of independant clones. And if the clone is 20% different, there is nothing they can do.....except make a better product...and make it more available.

Monster @ Aug 17th 2006 1:26PM

I think many of you are missing the entire point. The reason these clones exist is to replace Geometry Wars. They are created to play and look nearly identical to Geometry Wars. There's a big difference between making a game inspired by another game, but specifically creating it so people can play their game for free so they don't have to purchase the original game is pretty close to piracy. If I made a game that's identical to Donkey Kong except that Mario doesn't have a moustache, is it a unique creation? No, it's a blatant clone. It's just like all those clones of Pac-Man that came out in the 80s. They were all trying to ride the popularity of Pac-Man (though that was even worse since many of the clones were not free). I think at best it's underhanded. Don't belittle Bizarre for trying to protect their IP (though I too think it's disingenuous, or even fanatical, to replace the words "copyright infringement" with the word "theft"... they are not the same).

Kyoji @ Aug 17th 2006 1:30PM

Ugh, I hate this attitude companies take. Sure, an intellectual property deserves to be protected to a certain extent, but you cant expect to have a great idea, release it to millions and there be no clones. Bizarre needs to stop whining and combat the clones by innovating further; sitting back complaining about it to the gaming community wont do crap.

skooby @ Aug 17th 2006 1:30PM

They can sue whomever they want... George Lucas sued the original Battlestar Galactica over much of the same things... At some point during the lawsuit someone figured out that they weren't the same at all.

The same will happen here, I have played both and have to say that I like the 360 version much more. Bizzare should just keep innovating instead of playing the sue your *rear* out of existance...

Subnet6 @ Aug 17th 2006 1:31PM

The thing I found humorous is this:

"Geometry Wars is a rare example of and indie-owned, wholly original intellectual property, and that deserves protection. "

Are they implying that they deserve more protection because they are not some huge corporation?

They say they are indie-owned, well then why not publish the game for PC download to combat the clones? If you could get a legit copy of Geometry wars for you PC for $10, most people intested would buy it. Bizarre would make more money too. But wait!
My bet is they are contractually dissallowed from doing just that. Why? Because microsoft would never let them. So in reality you are stealing from Microsoft not Bizarre which according to their earlier logic, is not so bad.

Also, what kind of idiot at Bizarre would make a statement like:

"Only hardcore gamers can tell the differences between these clones and Geometry Wars."

I mean, seriously, I dont think the makers of the clones could come up with a better marketing campaign.

I can see it now on the gridwars site. Download gridwars now!!!! "Executives at Bizarre are quoted as saying, "Only hardcore gamers can tell the differences between these clones and Geometry Wars.""

So you know our games is THAT good!

lowIQboy @ Aug 17th 2006 1:35PM

geowars->gridwars = zune->?

Somebody help me out on this one... I'm a bit stuck, wretched IQ tests!

Patrick @ Aug 17th 2006 1:36PM

I downloaded and play grid wars all the time. It's a neat game, and I can't afford a 360. Even if I could, that is complete overkill for such a simple game.

If Bizarre has a problem with that, I suggest they introduce supply to demand before they introduce anyone to a lawyer. If they released a PC version of geometry wars, had a paypal shop for it and it cost me the equivalent of the Live points in dollars, Sold. Even though I have a perfectly good and free clone, I'd buy it.

I understand their wish to defend their intellectual property, but a download of Grid Wars from me hurts them none - there's no chance I'm buying an 360 any time soon, so they've lost no potential revenue from it. They've denied themselves revenue by keeping their product from reaching all the possible markets.

All sort of goes back to the "not every pirated copy is a lost sale" argument.

Agent MOO @ Aug 17th 2006 1:39PM

Bizzare is completely justified with the cease and desist. The art in that game is identical; I didn't realize those were shots of the clone until I looked at the grid wars site.

Ignignokt @ Aug 17th 2006 1:41PM

So nobody here would think anything was wrong with it if I made a mod for HL2 that was an exact copy of, say, The Ship, and then sold it under the name "The Boat"?

bv @ Aug 17th 2006 1:47PM

Ignignokt-
Grid Wars is freeware as is every game on Marco Incitti's website!

http://www.incitti.com/Blitz/

Derbeste @ Aug 17th 2006 1:48PM

@Ignignokt

I would have an issue if you used Valve's tools to do the modding since they own the tools you just used to mod the game.

But if you built said product from scratch with only your own known how and a court deemed it was 20% different....

Nope....fair game.

That's what's nice about complex 3D engines. They are much harder for homebrewers to mimic. Why do you think no big corporations are making geometry wars quality games?

potato @ Aug 17th 2006 1:48PM

Clones, while morally objectionable, are perfectly legal. You cannot copyright an idea, you can only copyright your IMPLEMENTATION of this idea. Much like how an author's copyright only applies to those words on a page, and any other writer can write the SAME STORY using different words and stay on the good side of the law.

So the remaining choice is to make game ideas patentable, this is both unenforceable and silly. While some games are obvious ripoff clones, gaming itself is a progressing, evolving format that takes ideas from its predecessors. There is no room for "gameplay" protection in this industry.

LunarDuality @ Aug 17th 2006 1:51PM

@ Derbeste

You make a valid point about copies in the free market and I guess then the argument goes down the spliting hairs road where "how much copying is too much?" question is the crux.

Obviously, things are copied and emulated, but just like in music, if something is *too* similar, then lawsuits fly in order to protect the "original" ideas. And that's the biggest problem with this debate; what qualifies as "Intellectual Property" and what protection should be provided to IPs?

To respond to your point about releasing the game on other platforms (and to respond to Subnet6's comments at the same time) you are forgetting that Bizarre was given a golden opportunity and a perfect platform for the release of their little game that could.

Geometry Wars did so well because MS set them up for success with a closed and secure network to sell their game and have it stand out from the crowd (mainly because there was *no* crowd at launch). Don't you think Bizarre would want to acknowledge that help and continue to support their original platform?

And in the PC space, games are easily cast aside and forgotten (even good ones) amongst the 1000s of little indie games that are out there. Not to mention the rampant piracy. And that is why the Xbox Live Arcade was a perfect place to set GW up for success.

Also, if you know anyone that creates indie games for fun or profit, you know that it's most likely a labor of love and something they do because they want to create fun games.

The original game was started by one guy: Stephen Cakebread. For fun. In his off time from coding for Project Gotham 2. As much as you wanna play this game on your PC, just think about how it would feel if you were that guy watching people make money (from selling the games, or just from google ads on their site) off of your ideas. That would upset me...dunno about you.

Patrick @ Aug 17th 2006 1:54PM

@Ignignokt

If you charged for it, and the original game was available on the same platform, I'd have a problem with it. You are then supplying an apples-to-apples replacement for someone else's IP, and profiting by it.

Grid wars is free, and in fact is probably costing Marco money, because his download mirrors get hammered to bejesus and back.

Plus, it is only supplying the game to a platform that Bizarre has failed to supply it for.

That's apples:carburetors.

Moogle @ Aug 17th 2006 2:03PM

This amuses me. I have very little sympathy for their pleas for people not to hate them for their actions.

They chose to not release on PC, they knew (or should have known) full well what would happen.

The simplicity of the game determines whether a fan's time spent remaking it themselves is worth less than $400. Yeah, theft is bad, but 'idea' theft is still a nebulous area*. Grid Wars had a different playstyle (according to some long article someone posted, that I can't track down right now), so could have had merit beyond just ripping off the (extrememly simplistic) graphics.

I don't fault Bizarre for trying to protect their money, but I don't have to respect them for it either.

* If anyone wants to get into it, I personally find 'intellectual property' a flakey concept. Bizarre sure made more than enough money off their game, certainly enough to justify having done it. They're not a good example for how protecting their 'ideas' would benefit the consumer. The artist has rights to their work because society feels it was worthwhile to have, and that it wouldn't have been made if the artist couldn't profit. It's nothing 'intrinsic' to the creation process. In a lot of cases it seems to hinder innovation, so we should certainly question it. Maybe if Bizarre didn't have these rights, they WOULD have released a PC version that I could play without supporting MS.

LunarDuality @ Aug 17th 2006 2:07PM

@ Derbeste
"That's what's nice about complex 3D engines. They are much harder for homebrewers to mimic. Why do you think no big corporations are making geometry wars quality games?"

I think that's a sad truth. Hopefully with the booming business that is XBLA, more corportations WILL make games of the same quality and energy as Geometry Wars.

Also, I hope that by saying that you weren't trying to justify copying Geometry Wars just because it was "easy to do".

On a side note, thanks for well constructed and thoroughly thought out arguments. Something that can be a rarity on Joystiq now that the fanboy wars are on. (x_x)

Jonathan Harford @ Aug 17th 2006 2:09PM

If Grid Wars 2 is actually better than Geometry Wars 2 (as that dude Stuart seems to think), shouldn't we tell Bizarre to stop selling Geometry Wars, instead?

Sorry, I'm just pissy about the whole stealing = copyright infringement conflation.

Derbeste @ Aug 17th 2006 2:14PM

@Lunar...

What can I say? We don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where to get something, you have to give up something else.

You make a simple game, it's going to be easily mimicked and emulated. But to make a complex game with a lot of advertising to create brand awareness and loyalty, you need to "sell out".

The thing is, Bizarre is trying to have its cake and eat it too.

They are trying to play the "indie" card, while selling out to MS at the same time.

They are trying to incite brand loyalty from the MASSES while limiting the play of their game to an elite few.

Then...after they have limited their game to that elite and hardcore, THEY COMPLAIN THAT ONLY THE HARDCORE KNOW THEIR BRAND! Therefore, imo, they did this to themselves. Whether the cease and desist order is justified or not, I have little sympathy for their cause.

If you don't want to watch people make money off your idea, make YOUR product more enticing than the competition! How many ads a day do you see that use the line: "Don't be fooled by immitators!"

Itunes even proved there are times when you need to make your product more enticing than piracy. They then proved it could be done.

Bizarre (and MS now) MUST do the same. And being exclusive to an elite few is NOT the way to do it.

Derbeste @ Aug 17th 2006 2:23PM

P.S. Lunar

Thank you for your compliments. I know I can be emphatic at times, but my logic tells me that to have an opinion is better than to be boring. ;)

Your comments, of course, have merrit too. If the game is less than 20%, the game is truly "stealing" and the cease and desist is justified.

But my point is, justified or not, Bizarre is behaving less than perfectly as well. They are practically ENCOURAGING piracy with their deal with MS. Granted...that is MS's fault as well. But you can't play the "poor-for-the-love-of-gaming indie card" while partnered with MS. You can't complain about lack of awareness when so few have access to your game.

Lastly, you can't feel THAT bad that so many people WANT to play your game and are finding ways to do it since YOU made it so hard for them to get it in the first place.

In short...

Yes...you can be mad that some people are ripping off your idea.

But you should also be mad at YOURSELF for allowing those ripped off ideas to such a much better option for most people.

Put out your cease and desist....but if you want loyalty....MAKE BETTER CHOICES.

Crazylink @ Aug 17th 2006 2:34PM

I don't have a 360 yet, but having played Grid Wars make me want Geometry Wars.

robrob @ Aug 17th 2006 2:36PM

did you guys look at the rest of his site?
EVERY gamee he has up there is a clone/remake of an existing game.

my problem is the guy obviouly knows how to hack some code around, and he is wasting his time ripping others work. If i had the ability to spit out some working game code, i would spoend my days trying to think of something new and innovative, not troll XBLA and see what kinda of games i can recreate.

Robotic House Plant @ Aug 17th 2006 2:51PM

I've played Geometry Wars, Robotron, Space Duel, and Grid Wars.

The only thing Geometry Wars shares with Robotron is that you control a single player, being attacked by hordes of enemies who are attracted to you. Robotron is about saving humans from robots to clear levels. Geometry Wars is about destroying geometric shapes and does not have levels. Geometry Wars has an option to destory all enemies at once.

The two are not the same.

Space Duel is a collaborative game that can be played by a single or two players. Two ships are joined together, but can operate independently, however the idea is to work together. It's actually a twist on Asteroids. There are geometric shapes, but they're not attracted to you. They simply move across the screen and reappear on the otherside. In Geometry Wars, all shapes are confined within the screen. There is no two player collaborative play.

Grid Wars on the otherhand attempts to copy the look, feel, and gameplay of Geometry Wars, and does so for free. It's a clone.

obo @ Aug 17th 2006 3:08PM

If you'd release Geometry Wars for Windows for $5 in a jewel case at Wal-Mart _you wouldn't have this problem, morons_

EdensDevil @ Aug 17th 2006 3:15PM

Yes every game is a clone of something but the only comparison to robotron is that you use two joysticks! Also when these clones use some of the same graphics then there is definitely a problem. Sue away! Personally I would be pissed if I created a new IP and every other bozo stole my ideas after a bunch of hard work to make something original.

MageMaster @ Sep 6th 2006 2:02PM

If they are gonna complain about something that runs on a pc, then thy should make a version that runs on pc and not just xbox 360.. and be released at the same time.

JPRacer @ Aug 17th 2006 3:53PM

If I decide to do a 2d side scroller game and use Mario, Goombas, Koopas, Bowser, etc for my sprites and use the same tiles to create my world as the one in SMB, do you think Nintendo will try to stop me? I think they will and it's exactly the same thing here. It's ok to be inspired by something, but Grid Wars uses the exact same shapes and colors for the player ship and enemies than in Geometry Wars. This is a clone, a blatant copy.

And for people saying "just release it on the PC". This is an exclusive to the 360. Just like GoW that will be exclusive to the 360 and if someone try to make a mod with the UE3, with the same models, textures and environments for the PC, Epic will stop them. Same thing here.

Geist @ Aug 17th 2006 4:11PM

You know, I always thought Geometry Wars closely resembled Smash TV. Mostly in the control scheme, and the attack-style of the enemies, but I could never shake that feeling.

Pip @ Aug 17th 2006 5:36PM

It also resembles Stardust and Super Stardust as well. It just doesn't have the tunnel levels. Yet.

Derbeste @ Aug 17th 2006 5:38PM

JPracer...

OK....big problems there...

1) Goombas, Koopas, and Italian plumbers named Mario are copyrightable. Geometrical shapes.....are not. Face it. Geometry wars is pretty damn generic in nature. That's why so many on here have compared it to so many other games already. I guess it really isn't as original as their egos think it is.

2) Yes...it's now an xbox exclusive. But unlike GoW which would HAVE to be copied by a big company, GW is extremely easy to mimic by just about ANYONE with coding experience.

With that in mind, no one is saying that they HAVE to release this on PC or that the cease and desist was unjustified. We are saying it would have been SMART. Making this game an xbox exclusive is NOT going to sell anymore xboxes (unlike GoW). So what is the benefit? There is none! Being exclusive to the xbox isn't helping Bizarre, MS, or the consumer. It's just an unnatural pairing.

This cease and desist order will do jack shit. Grid Wars is already on the Internet and widely available on P2P, torrent, and other download sites. You can't stop cloners from other countries either. And lastly, what if they DID succeed in making this company stop? What's to stop another guy from making another clone that just a little more different? You can't stop an idea.....ideas cannot be caged by force.

The ONLY way to combat this now is by making your game a better option than the competition or the trouble of pirating.

That is EXACTLY what Itunes is doing for the music biz.

Again...the BIG point we are trying to make is that.

1) Bizarre doesn't HAVE to do anything...but they SHOULD.

2) Their game is so generic that one can no tell who is cloning who.

ManekiNeko @ Aug 17th 2006 5:56PM

First of all, it's copyright infringement, not theft. The courts have said as much, and no amount of melodramatic hysteria will change that.

Secondly, when the heck did Geometry Wars suddenly become so original? The game is an even mixture of Robotron: 2084's omni-directional firing and Space Duel's simple vector graphics. Just because old farts like myself are starving for intense arcade games doesn't mean that this title is at the peak of innovation.

This mess has left me hoping that Bizarre Creations will get a letter of its own from Polyphony Digital. Hey, only hardcore gamers will be able to tell the difference between Project Gotham Racing and Gran Tourismo!

JR

Jim @ Aug 17th 2006 8:03PM

What? Geometry Wars is ORIGINAL?

I smiled seeing that kind of games coming back from the arcades to Xbox Live Arcade.

Why is it called "Retro Evolved" then?

I like Bizarre, and of course they should make tons of money from their games - but keep it real, right.

Snurp @ Aug 17th 2006 8:18PM

Many people here have called Grid Wars a clone primarily on the basis of it looking the same. Just because it has the same shapes doesn't necessarily mean much. I believe it is possible to blatantly copy the concept and not just the look in an unfair manner. Many of the clones this post links to don't look as close to GW as Grid Wars does, but they play exactly the same. Does looking a little different make them that much less of a copy? More generally, if two games look exactly the same but play different, can that properly be compared to two games that play exactly the same that look different? (Although in this case I admit they both look and play very similarly). Not that I'm claiming I can answer it, but I think it should be considered.

As for the whole IP argument, I don't want to even wade into that one. At least, not without scuba gear...

Itsahill @ Aug 17th 2006 9:04PM

I believe that Bizarre have every right to go after Grid Wars, there is no way in hell that Grid wars is original, I played the game months ago (before I had a 360) and it is very very similar (but Geometry Wars is alot better, graphics wise and gameplay wise).