There have been a couple issues pop up on the Internet recently regarding the 360 version of Madden NFL 07 (Aug. 22). Two different Madden fan sites have gotten copies of the final product and each voiced specific worries with what they were given. 1Up contacted EA and got their response to the problems addressed.
The first problem:
- Operation Sports claimed that Hall of Fame players started appearing on the rosters of other teams. While hardcore Madden fans don't seem to like this, that's how their inclusions is actually supposed to work. "It's working the way we intended it to," said Mr. Ortiz. "Whatever players you unlock, they are the players that will actually be available when you start the franchise mode. If you've already unlocked 10 Hall of Famers, they'll be available for players to sign... It's there for users to take advantage of." Mr. Ortiz recognized that this troubled some players, and mentioned that there is a in-game fix available, where players can save off the roster when they're booting up, and then proceeding to load it once they're in-game -- effectively eliminating the old-timers from the rosters.
Now the second:
- Madden Nation says that players weren't fatiguing at all. The initial posting stated they "broke like 3 tackles and laid on the turbo... he's not even in the yellow." (Players fatigue from green to yellow to red.) We asked Mr. Ortiz about this as well. "That's actually not the case. The UI isn't registering it... You fatigue at a lower pace than in the past, but it isn't reflected in the UI. [It's] Something we're addressing and fixing right now." He explained that this fix would be delivered in the way of a patch to the game for 360 users, but didn't have a specific date as to when it would be available. "Very soon. Around the release date," he said, adding "We don't just shove the fix out there. We don't want to slide [the balance] it too far in one direction."
(Page 1) Reader Comments
... Its Ea.
Reply
They're never going to get it, are they? Then again, when people buy these games every year, why should they have to?
Reply
Reply
"when PEOPLE buy these games every year..." People?
Reply
That sounds like "We couldn't decide on a game feature and we want the drooling monkeys to decide for us." They release the game, and if there is more "concern" from the Madden community, they'll patch it. If nobody cares, why release a patch?
Reply
Reply
Reply
10 years ago, bugs like these would have just been unheard of and a product wouldn't ship with a bug like the fatigue one... I don't see why they have to lower the standards :-
Reply
Reply
Reply
I would be much more willing to pay for updates and reworks a few bucks at a time than buy a brand new game every year. With the direction a lot of people are predicting games will go within the next few years (more downloadable content, to the point of downloads making discs obsolete), it would make perfect sense for a big company like EA (who already releases downloadable content, mind you) to get an early lead on this trend.
Reply
I have been talking about this since N64. My favorite football games have always been the Tecmo Bowl series. It's such simple gameplay, that anyone can essentially learn it at first, but it takes some skill to really be good (even though you can just throw bombs all day - not unlike the Madden of today).
However, with the advent of memory cards, you could keep the basic gameplay of whatever Tecmo Bowl you liked, but every year they could just send out updated rosters and stats. Since it would just amount to changing programming numbers, it should be really easy to update and then charge $5-10 for people to copy at a station or game store. It would maybe take the company a few thousand dollars of work for major profit.
I don't think this is possible with Madden though. Even though each iteration is similar, the goal of Madden is realism (to some degree). I think a series like Blitz could live like this now. "Perfect" as much as possible a simplified, arcade gameplay system, then through downloads and a fee, let users pay to get new rosters.
Reply
I'm not trying to point out anything about his grammar crazy man, calm down. If you didn't get it at first then just forget about it.
Reply
Reply
As far as the players not fatiguing, I really don't think that's something that really EFFECTS gameplay. Seeing as how if your players aren't fatiguing, neither are your opponents, so the gameplay will still remain balanced.
Reply
EA must be so happy that they don't have to worry about that.
Reply
It should be noted that representatives from Electronic Arts and members of the Madden design team informed me specifically at the recent Community Day that this was not going to happen.
I asked specifically if Hall of Famers, when "unlocked", would then populate rosters used in other modes of play, and the answer was clearly "no", with one of the team laughing and telling me me that such a thing would be "silly".
I was told that they would merely appear as a "template" for future Superstar or Create-a-Player characters.
I noted their responses and left it at that until I received the game and noticed that it did not work as I was clearly told that it would.
At that point, I had a conversation with my contact at Electronic Arts, who was also initially confused. Hours later, I was told that the EA Tiburon personnel that clearly explained the functionality to me were "misinformed".
This may indeed be the case, but I'd like to stress that the breakdown in internal communication between members of EA's design team resulted in the report. It wasn't a matter of "like or dislike", it was a matter of explained versus actual functionality - which is what I reported on in the first place.
Certainly, if EA Tiburon had had it's answers straight at the Community Day, there would have been no need to report an any discrepancy.
Nevertheless, a quick response from the design team regarding a workaround is both reassuring and appreciated.
-Shawn Drotar
Managing Editor, OperationSports.com
Reply
Thanks to the next generation consoles ability to connect to the internet and have storage facility as standard, we are going to see more and more poor quality releases that need patching, and its not jsut EA doing it. Just because the PC community deal with this, doesn't mean us console owners should. That was always a benefit of owning a console, you got a finished product as you couldn't go changing it later with patches.
How many Xbox 360 games released have needed patching already? and even then you have to WAIT a lifetime for the patch. Its Effing ridiculous.
The way to stop this?
Boycott. And EA REALLY need to learn a lesson. Will people do that? nah, and EA know it.
When I saw the classic compilation appearing for PSP I was all happy to see some really true classics in EA history, back when they made amazing games (The whole reason why they became so big). But now they are just pissing away that quality image (well, they have been since PS1 days).
I'm looking forward to the classics pack more than any current EA release on the agenda for the next.. whenever!
Reply
If you want to blame anyone on the Madden Monopoly blame the NFL not EA Sports or blame Sega/2K/other developers for making a product that doesn’t cater to the masses thus not making it worth their wile to outbid EA.
I am well aware that my beliefs on the Madden games are not popular beliefs but I don’t pussy foot around and live in some sort of lalaland believing that the 2K series was making an impact on the NFL gaming market. I also don’t blame EA for outbidding 2K sports on the NFL licenses. I’m sorry to tell the internet but your love for the NFL 2K series is not a popular belief. Deal with it; no one bought NFL 2K as their main football game. Many bought it as a secondary game but when it came down to it the majority preferred Madden and 2K wasn’t going to change that fact anytime soon. In fact the 2K series games that are still around and that came out on the 360 have more bugs and glitches then any other game I have ever played. The 2K games also used last gen engines/graphics on the 360. That is inexcusable and have been criticized on many other games e.g. Tony Hawk, Gun, King Kong…
I welcome criticism but I won’t welcome ignorance on what I have posted.
Reply
Reply
Errm.. yeah... Calm the fuck down. I obviously hit an unintentional nerve there eh? My whole point wasn't to say 2K games were better, it was exactly how you point it out. EA have had NO competition AT ALL! I should have said the NEAREST was the sega sports line.... I wasnt trying to imply that they were even being touched by Sega Sports, I know they weren't. Its just the last dedicated line I remember having a real go at EA (In the Sega days with DC). And yeah, nowadays the 2K line is a joke too. Oh, and where did I say I LOVE them? Chill out.
My point was more that EA are getting more and more sloppy and expect people to swallow it and wait for patches. Not good. If it gets like The Godfather III on PC I will leave console gaming for good.
The broader sense was to say how next gen consoles will generally promote the idea that releasing patches is ok so a rushed unfinished games can be allowed. Not good.
I had a go at EA, but I wasn't trying to say they were the ONLY guilty party. I just fear one of the biggest players in the gaming industry is becoming too big to realise what they once were and what console gaming is about. Im talking way back even before the Genesis times too, not just recent years. They made amazing games for Genesis and that boosted them, and well deserved. but now they are at the top there seems to be nothing but the same old crap coming out. Nothng new, nothing exciting. And to top it off, bugs? And they know about them? And aren't doing anything for now? Released with KNOWN bugs? And they want $60?
Not good enough.
Reply
It doesn't really affect the game that much. Live with it. Download the patch. Welcome to the harsh reality of broadband capability. Be thankful that you didn't have to put up with this shit in the days of 56k.
Reply
Your two posts there do an extremely poor job proving that point :)
>but saying shit like "Sega's Sports line up was
>competition" is a joke. Madden out sold the 2KY series
>by at least a 3 to 1 ratio. Even the one year that 2KY
>had a 60% price difference then Madden, Madden still
>out sold NFL 2KY5 with more then a 2:1 ratio bringing
>in more then 5 times the revenue then the competition.
>Don't let your hate of EA Sports fog your reasoning.
The Chevrolet Aveo outsells the Ferrari Enzo by quite a wide margin, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Aveo is a better car.
Yes, it may not have sold as well as Madden, but in the last couple of years, Sega's NFL 2K series was starting to get better ratings in the press than Madden, the final year (NFL 2K5) especially. If not for the exclusive license, NFL 2K6 stood poised to take a sizeable chunk of the football game market. Madden 06 was dinged a bit for not really offering any real improvements over 05, and the X360 version took some serious hits in ratings over a lack of features compared to the XBox and PS2 versions. So it's easy to see why EA so fervently sought the exclusive license...their upcoming product was in danger of getting seriously beat in reviews by the 2K game, which had been quietly and consistently improving its product over the last few years, offering new features, and doing so at a far better price. 2K may not have bested them in sales...they still would have a long uphill climb...but they would have taken a sizeable chunk in market share and it would have been that much harder for EA to fight them off. Instead of trying to work to be better, it was much easier for EA to throw some money around to be the only game in town.
But it's not just 2K fans (yes, there are plenty of them who bought the game as their first choice) who got screwed. Madden fans get screwed as well. EA has said they plan to offer more games that involve the NFL license...they now have Madden and Head Coach, plus some other things on the horizon they've not talked much about. If they had competition, they'd probably put all of these features into the Madden game as a means of trying to compete with Sega/Take Two. Instead of having one Madden game packed with features at 50 or 60 bucks, now you have to buy several stripped down titles for 30, 40, 50 bucks each depending on what they come up with. So everyone gets boned.
Reply
Wow, spoo. So what you're saying is that EA spent 1,000,000,000 (that's one BILLION) dollars to buy a license that they didn't need because they were thrashing everything else out there?
That makes perfect sense. Let's drop a cool billion for NO REASON WHATSOEVER. Your logic is about as solid as running water.
The bottom line is that the 2k games were catching up to EA, and quickly. College Hoops and NBA 2k5-6 is a MUCH better offering than the slop the EA franchise throws out. NFL 2k5 was better than Madden 2005 in many respects, and so guess what? After years of buying Madden, I went with Sega that year. The sad thing is, 2k5 is STILL the best football game ever produced, and we're nearing 2007 now.
"Deal with it; no one bought NFL 2K as their main football game."
Really? I did. I guess either I'm "no one" then, or your entire post is full of bullshit. You say you're unaccepting of ignorance after a post full of sweeping generalizations and inane logic.
"The 2K games also used last gen engines/graphics on the 360..."
And guess what? They're STILL better games than what EA is turning out. I know in your fanboy world of shiny things that graphics are the only things that matter, but don't assume you speak for every gamer just because you kiss the ass of the richer company.
"Many bought it as a secondary game but when it came down to it the majority preferred Madden and 2K wasn’t going to change that fact anytime soon."
1,000,000,000 dollars spent making sure that the they were the only football game with an official license. But you're right, they probably didn't feel threatened at all. Makes a lot of sense.
Reply
It was probably just a coincidence, right?
Reply
Computer software companies will always release buggy software because it can always be patched later. Why do you think NO PC game runs exclusively off the CD/DVD. They can, but what if there are bugs? I know - install it to the hard drive then if there are bugs, release a patch!
I'm looking at you Microsoft. Thanks for setting the bar lower...again. To MS's credit, they haven't released a new "consumer" OS since 2001...though they should have waited a bit longer then since Windows 2000 came out just a year before...which I still prefer to the bloat that is XP...
I make a living writing business software for Windows. Love Visual Studio.net. So when I say this, I'm not a fanboy:
You can't beat Nintendo on product quality.
Reply
Well, I think part of it is due to the way computers themselves were going, well, nuts during this time frame as well. I remember my first PC during this time frame that ran DOS and then Win 3.11 ran at a blinding 20 MHz. Then PC's got a lot faster - up to the 100 MHz speeds, and 95 came out. I've an old PC here that is quite literally 9 years old that still has Win98 1st Ed on it - 400 Mhz P2. 98 2nd Ed wasn't too bad, although a daily reboot was pretty much required, ME sucked royally, and in the meantime, the business side of things was working fairly decently.
Thus, take the business side, make it into the consumer side, and you've got XP. Given that the OS has to work on such a variety of system configurations, XP isn't too bad at all. Also since that time, of course, we've had PC speed increase so that you see 4 GHz or more processor speeds now - thus Vista in January.
@dsub - #12 - > I'm not buying madden this year until football season's over and I can pick it up for $20.
I do something very similar, except I only buy it every OTHER year. No reason to buy it every year - nor is there really any reason for them NOT to offer an expansion pack. I've seen people have the team information available, and I've done very similar stuff with NCAA when I got it a couple of years ago - put some of the appropriate players in for the key teams I cared about myself.
Reply
EA's Arena Football game is tons of fun, but it too has some major bugs. The computer opponent sometimes executes an onside kick for no reason at all. Often times it will go for it on 4th down even though it could easily kick a field goal. In fact, the computer almost always goes for it on 4th down. Talk about "artificial" intelligence!
Those bugs aside, Arena Football is a mighty fun game. I'd rather play that than the travesty that is (and has been since 94) Madden. For NFL action, I'm sticking with NFL2K6 on the good ol Xbox.
Reply
"Wow, spoo. So what you're saying is that EA spent 1,000,000,000 (that's one BILLION) dollars to buy a license that they didn't need because they were thrashing everything else out there?"
Hence the reason EA spent the money. If you were making lots of money on a product, wouldn't you do what is necessary to protect your product? I think if any of us were in the same possition as EA, we'd all make the same deal.
Reply
yup you might as well buy a PC
i was pissed off enough when i heard them taking need for speed underground 2 and madden 05 and such offline
EA is getting so damn cheap
Reply
The NFL was the one pushing for one exclusive developer. EA did need to have the NFL license or else they would have to put out a generic product, everyone knows even if you have a better product the licensed one does better. In a crazy move SEGA way overpaid to get the MLB license.
EA did not drop its price to $19.99 a month after SEGA released all their sports games at that price. EA kept Madden's price the same and it still outsold NFL 2K5 by a 10 to 1 margin. They did drop the price of their other games to $29.99, not $19.99. Most people believe Madden is the better game and sales prove that.
Reply
Still console games will continue to be charged at least 25% more than PC games - very funny indead.
And to "Lou D" I will say that: No, they don't run off the CD/DVD. Why should they? When installed on the harddrive there is much less loading time. I'll guess you have played many console games with annoying loading time inbetween levels. And you never get rid of them. PC games only have this problem (?) first time you install the game.
Reply
I agree 100 percent it was 2k for me and many a friend I played football with. Madden was gutter trash and never got played with my crew.
EA's exclusive NFL license is the worst to happen in gaming in the last 10 years. I won't be playing football this season or any other season if Madden is the only nfl game on the market
Reply
Games are begin rushed out, mainly because of their cost (how can you justify an extra 3-6 months on an already $20 million dollar game? each day is costing tons of moola, its much easier to release a game unfinished and patch it with a smaller crew)
Reply
So users need to patch this game already and using the HD for it. Curse MS for a small 20gb drive and yes developers using it as a crutch - so you need broadband and likely more than MS's cheesy tiny memory add-on, but a HD, to patch EA's product on release.
And a collectors edition for $70... /laugh
2K7 Hockey, rock my world.
Reply
Very true. Stuff like this newstory is exactly what I figured EA would do with no competetion. It really is worse than people know.
I switched over to 2K basketball in '02 and NFL in '03 for the better gameplay, presentation, graphic-style, and excellent commentary. But I still played Madden with my friends because they HATE 2K and I wanted to play multiplayer occasionally.
But after the 'sclusivity deal, I boycott 'em. I mean, that's not even right.
Anyway, I'm lifting the boycott just for Madden 07 Wii because it seems innovative. But it makes me wonder, if EA can make even Madden fresh, what the old 2K SPORTS do with Wii devkits?
What features are EA leaving out till next year just cause there's no comp?
Reply
Reply
with 56x CD drives and 16x DVD drives, I don't think PC's really need to worry about loading times for games.
It's a fact, PC game can be made to run just like consoles. My point was to emphasize that Microsoft, by including a hard drive in the original Xbox has brought the "patch it" mindset to consoles.
Previously on consoles, alot more Q.C. was done before a title was released as there could be no patch. If your software had a major bug and word of mouth got around, your sales drop to 0. That's why console development was always delayed. No it's set a release date in stone and then "patch it". Disgusting... Release buggy software just to hit the appropriate marketing period.
Reply
Reply
ESPN 2K5 XBOX/PS2 sales: 3.41 Million
Madden 2005 XBOX/PS2 sales; 5.29 Million
So Sega was putting up very good competition, not getting outsold by 10:1 like some idiot said.
If not for the exclusivity deal, Sega would have probably outsold Madden by 2007.
Reply
And for people without internet, your living in the past. Your gonna have to get internet sometime.
Reply
It's not about facts or common sense, it's about people who think it's cool to hate EA without any reasoning. Majority of these people would'nt have played the game anyways.
This post is essentially a ton of people complaining that a company is FIXING one of their games.
Reply
Yet they have an exclusive baseball license, and that is a heaping pile of shit. At least Madden can be enjoyed.
Reply
Thank you for showing these morons with no actual knowledge of anything except their own personal "facts" that they know nothing about what they're spouting off about.
How about in the future, you nitwits actually list a source instead of making up statistics on the spot?
AGAIN: EA got scared. They bought a license. Sega was SOLID competition. END. OF. STORY.
Anyone else want to drivel about the "superiority" of the EA franchise?
Reply
You are comparing apples with oranges here. But lets say the Ferrari Enzo cost 60% less then the Chevy Aveo and the Aveo still outsells the Enzo even with a much cheaper price tag.
“Wow, spoo. So what you're saying is that EA spent 1,000,000,000 (that's one BILLION) dollars to buy a license that they didn't need because they were thrashing everything else out there?”
How many times dose it need to be said that the -NFL- came to EA with the deal, just like the NFL did with Reebok.
”Really? I did. I guess either I'm "no one" then, or your entire post is full of bullshit. You say you're unaccepting of ignorance after a post full of sweeping generalizations and inane logic.”
I use inane logic? I used plenty of logic in my above post. You are the one that isn’t seeing that the NFL was going to make the deal if it was with 2K, EA or any other publisher that would pay for it. You are also ignoring the fact that Madden was outselling the competition by a large margin. I will take back my “no one” statement and I will say very few bought 2K as their main NFL game.
“And guess what? They're STILL better games than what EA is turning out. I know in your fanboy world of shiny things that graphics are the only things that matter, but don't assume you speak for every gamer just because you kiss the ass of the richer company.”
Hold the press, more developers should stop making next gen games that look next gen? I buy next gen games for next gen graphics, next gen game engines and next gen shine.
“1,000,000,000 dollars spent making sure that the they were the only football game with an official license. But you're right, they probably didn't feel threatened at all. Makes a lot of sense.”
This sounds familiar. I am not going to argue the same point over and over again.
“And let us not forget the year that Sega brought out their sports games at $19.99, it only took about a month before EA dropped the price of their games down to $20 bucks as well.”
I thought I was the one that spouted bullshit? /sarcasm EA didn’t drop the price of Madden 2005 until late December and they dropped it to $30 if I remember correctly.
“Just to clarify some things;
ESPN 2K5 XBOX/PS2 sales: 3.41 Million
Madden 2005 XBOX/PS2 sales; 5.29 Million”
The only numbers I found were home console game sales in 2004:
Madden: 4,274,243 units sold (Most were sold at $49.99)
ESPN 2KY5: 2,632,393 units sold ($19.99)
But this was by far the closest 2K ever came to Madden games.
I will not argue the fact that competition is good for gamers because it is. But the fact is Madden isn’t the only game that is full of bugs or arguing that if 2K still made a NFL game that things would be different.
Phipscube, I didn’t mean to pick you out like that and you make a lot of good points. Also the classic compilation appearing for PSP looks hot and they were some of my favorite games from my early teen years.
Reply
I totally agree with you!
The console makers are shooting themselves in the foot with this issue.
But there are no doubt that, if it can be done (patching later) then IT WILL be done. That's the rule of money we are facing here.
What I can see, is a development for consoles towards PC functionality. Including harddisk and internet was the last step.
What one could ask is: why should I buy a console, when it has same functionality as a PC? Is just as expensive if we look at it in the long run (games are 25% to 50% more expensive than an exact copy of the same game on the PC). The graphic quality and processor speed (specs) on a console are static, where as PC specs develop all the time. Consoles only catch up when a new is released every 5 years of so.
By the way: newest models of harddisks deliver 150 MB/sec. A CD drive with 56x speed has 150 kB/sec times your 56x = 8.4 MB/sec. Harddrives are then (150 div by 8.4)= approx. 17 times faster than a CD drive with 56x speed.
I don't say all PC games have 17 times faster load time than console games. Not by far. But they ARE faster.
I agree with you that the PC could read directly from the CD/DVD without any problem. You could even get a downloaded patch to work anyway. No problem. Newer PC games today have a button "on screen" for patching. Look at the game "Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends" for that functionality.
Reply
I agree with you. That's why I covered it (however vaguely) in my own comment. If they make major overhauls like updates to the graphics or new features, etc., the package would cost more. Still coming in at cheaper than 50 bucks, though, because of lack of packaging and production.
I'm suggesting that they update the franchise in the same ways they already do, but make more frequent updates and offer them as downloadables. These updates would range from something as small as a roser update to something as large as a complete engine overhaul, and be priced accordingly.
I think everyone wins... except those without internet connections. But if you don't have an internet connection, what the hell?
Reply
ESPN 2KY5: 2,632,393 units sold ($19.99"
Nah. I think quite a large number of people waited for the price to drop to 20 or 30 bucks. I know I picked my copy up at 19.99, and there were still many months before they even started talking about Madden 06.
But still, I see your point.
Reply
Reply
Reply