Will Resistance: FoM justify the PS3 pricetag? [update 1]

nothing i am saying isnt true im not a fanboy im on my second xbox 360.

FACT the 360 has VMX instruction sets for rendering graphics it.
why do you support the PS3 its basicly a blue ray player on steriods. it just happens to have a video card bulit into but its design by nature for sony to feed you content yes there service is free becasue they need to make back all the money for hardware development it has a blue ray drive a cell a Custom geforce a hdmi port all these thing cost right now a shit load of money which is why it cost $500-$600


xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

where as the cell is bulit to crunching numbers what
but

Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.


arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-1.ars

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-fpfxbox/?ca=dgr-lnxw09XBoxDesign

Haha, you guys just told joe to shut up, without giving any reasons other than being out of league or something. You know someone has run out of things to say and has lost it when they tell you to shut up and the only reason they can give is because you suck.

Anyways, you sony fanboys should wake up and see the fact that this game is humongous only because they cheated. They included all the localised versions on this one disc. If the PS3 is region encoded, then there is no way they will release a commercial product with all localisation builds on one disc. The only thing Blu ray helps is encouraging developers to be lazy.

yes clee because all Developers will take shortcuts on Ps3... yet on 360 and Wii no shortcuts there right? If developers are lazy it isn't because of a Format... its because...well they're lazy and they're games wouldnt be good... so they wouldnt be employed for long.

I mean seriously what is up with all this "if they have more space they'll be lazy" deal? Do people not realize that the amount of storage for electronics only gets bigger as time goes on? Everything used to fit fine on 1GB drives and floppy disks.. are developers lazy now because they have more space? Stuff used to fit fine on CD's during the PS1 era.. are developers lazy now because DVDs afforded them 10x the space?

get over yourselves, Developers will just take advantage of the space they have as they do with Any media. With all the great compression techniques we have these days.. by the way you guys are arguing, why do we even need 9GB DVDs when they can compress the hell out of everything to fit on CD's? and since i've seen some hella fast CD reading speeds (52x+) why not just stick with those instead of DVD's right?

Hell i wouldnt be surprised if 5 years from now Terabyte sized drives are common and 50GB disks are easily filled with movies/music/etc

In reguards to space: PS3 has the edge in space, period. The 360 can have huge expansive worlds, so can the PS3, but overall, the PS3 can have far far larger maps. Even if you could somehow cram a whole planet of space onto a DVD9 (by the way, DVD9 is slang for dual-layer because it was closer to 9 GB, DVD5 because it was single layer and closer to 5GB), you could still fit 5x as much on a BD.

Perhaps the game is large because there aren't any locked doors, or retarded walls to keep you locked in a world, maybe the levels are just plain gigantic on a level we havn't even seen yet. I don't know, neither do you.

The reason I will buy this game? Because i know the weapons will kick. If you've actually plaed R&C, you know that getting a new weapon in and of itself is hours of fun. You don't just get a new weapon and that's it, you get the weapon and as you use it, the gun evolves and gains more features. By the way: R&C has the flat-out best weapon leveling system ever. I'm psyched for how it will translate. They've only showed off about 2-3 guns, I just know there will be about 30 that all have crazy cool features.

When you combine creative weapons and multiplayer with creative people... wow. That's going to be a blast. Litterally.

And yes, you can compress this game, and I bet you could get it to fit on a DVD, but I'd rather see developers spend their time creating a game rather than worrying about it fitting onto a disc. Besides, with streaming tech as it is, maybe the game has only one real load screen, then it's like GTA:SA where you just go wherever you need to. The map could actually be all of europe and fit on the disc. I like the potential of that. I hope games start being bigger like that.

Is this game really worth $660? No. Ask yourself this: what single Xbox 360 game is worth $460? none. period. however, $600 to be able to play this game, warhawk, heavenly sword, MGS, motorstorm, KZ2, and a ton of others that will eventually come out, heck yeah. Same with the 360. There is no single game that is worth the price tag of either console. If that were true, than you would see people owning that system, and only one game. So please stop using that argument, or stop playing games other than the one single system-seller.

hehe... once I beat this game though, I think I'll play it in sweeeeedish for fun. haha

The reaction this game got at E3 was lukewarm at best...


What's next? Harrison talking about how the game's totally worth it's (likely) very steep price tag? I think sony smells Benjamins!

No matter how much compression is used on DVD, using the same compression on BluRay can always achieve 5X more compressed content. Also if developers can magicly compress 22GB into 8.5GB, why didn't they just compress all of those PS2 games to fit on CDs? They would have made more money since CDs are cheaper to produce than DVDs right? We all would have still paid $49 per game without a second thought. I'll tell you why they didn't do that. Because they couldn't compress that much data and still mantain the level of processor-friendly data of a DVD based game. My point is, the heavier the compression, the more processing power the data consumes. And for the record all of the next gen consoles look great. I'm just tired of the anti-PS3ism.

1. Your gears of war gods at Epic said they'll need this much space for Unreal Tournament 2007.. yes..I am sure they just suddenly got lazy.

2. Stop justifying your buying decisions with premature conclusions.

Actually when you look at PS2 games they often could have fit on a cd without any trouble. The majority of PS2 games did have "false data" just to fill up disks, ask anyone youknow with achipped console! I dont have one cause I do like buying games, I think the devs should have the money for games rather than large retailers.

However if you look into it most Xbox, PS2 and even dreamcast games the majority of them had false data just to fill up the disks. If you go and do a bit of research on the internet (thats the thing fanboys goon to talk about movies games and swap porn!) you can find out that games were often only a CDs length.

Additionally to try and clear up a fallacy being pushed over and again here, having huge disks doesnt mean having huge worlds, all it means is that you can have lots of assetts, however one of the main things the Xbox 360 and the PS3 is set up to do is create procedural content quickly and without a large processor overhead. both systems can create millions of trees and walls and other things that will be seen a million times without having to have a million objects on a disk. Thats right both systems can do that and the comments from the unreal guys are indicitave of this they are aware that their games arent as globally acceppted as say mario so shortening time to market utilising worlwide marketing campaigns and a disc that can be sold all over the world will make it easier for them to penetrate different markets quickly no need for additional localisation and the like. but it will it will cost them more due to the cost of blueray disk production which is currently much more expensive than DVD9.

Bigger disks doesnt equal better games just because devs can use that space does that mean that they are using the space more effectively? Is tomb raider an original PS1 CD game not better than tomb raider angel of darkness a supposed DVD game?

I don't think that anyone has mentioned that by having compression, the game will actually run a lot *faster*.

The bottleneck in this case is getting data off the BluRay disc, and we all know that shipping compressed data is faster. That's why we download files compressed -- the overhead of decompression is more than compensated for by the speed up in data transfer.

This will increase load times, and any other aspects that require data to be loaded off the optical disc in game. For instance, Oblivion spins up the disc to get NPC dialogue every now and then. Would you recommend the PS3 Oblivion (if ever there is one) to store the audio as WAV files so that the Cell can be saved the stress of decoding mp3/ogg etc?

In addition, IIRC, the raw data rate of the BD-ROM in the PS3 is less than the DVD-ROM in the 360.

wow... a lot has been said about this so far. I didn't read it all but I will add my 2 cents...


It's 3 months before a release. Things could change (but not too much... 3 months let's you touch up, not make drastic changes).

That being said, 22gb, like many have said already, doesn't really tell us anything. It could be uncompressed code. It could be prerendered high definition video. It could be coding for all regions. It could be PS3 advertisements and demo's. It could be a bunch of extra sound clips. It could be a bunch of repeated code (not finalized). It could be a combination of some/all of these things.

Give it time. All answers will come eventually. Personally, I'm more interested in great gameplay than I am how much data is on the disc.

Okay, the reason PS2/xbox games have false data on the disc is for faster read times. Regular drives are CAV, or constant angular velocity. This means that the disc spins at the same speed always. Now, when you read data from the areas near the center of the disc, it will read slower because the disc is not spinning as fast as the outsides of the disc. The false data is used to push more data towards the outside of the disc so that it loads faster. They also engineer the discs so that the most crucially needed data is on the outside of the disc, so the data you need most is the fastest to read.

BD on the other hand is CLV, or constant linear velocity. That means wherever on the disc you are reading from, it will be the same speed. It does this by speeding up or slowing down the disc depending on where it is read from, so it spins faster as data goes inward.

Because of this, there is NO reason for padding files, at least not for speed concerns. Perhaps others, but I'm not working for sony, so I don't know. Also: I do have a modded system, and I rip my games to HDD, and I do compress them by removing the .pad files so I can fit more on. It does help a lot, but nothing still fits on a CD.

Also, according to a statistic sheet on PS2HD dot com, 4.6% of the games listed are padded and shrinkable. Now this list is far from perfect, since not every game has been checked. Most games range from 3-4 GB. The pad files can take up anywhere from 10MB to about 3 GB, but the larger ones are rarily seen, and mostly from lazier games.

Also, one last thing: I don't think there was ever one CGI scene in R&C. any of them. Every cinematic was rendered in game, so... unless they suddenly change policy, I don't fully buy that. Maybe logo intros at bootup, but outside of that, not seeing it from them.

Every xbox360 game demo is considerably less than 1Gb, All of these include the complete game engine, and at least 1 level of voices, graphics, all the sounds etc... The PS3 games look pretty identical to the 360 games.

So exactly what is the other 29Gb of Data going to be?
textures?

Two very big and important things we are simply being overlooked:
Bigger storage does NOT mean better graphics and gameplay!!!!!...why:

1) there was a review done for using the capacity of the DVD storage on the 1 generation consoles over the last 5 years.
It seems that newer development technologies were/are the reason that througout the years the games kept looking better (on xbox and ps/2) WITHOUT USING BIGGER STORAGE!!!!!!!!!(the biggest games still use half the storage)
Oblivion is the best game to showcase this fact. (the levels are 500 to 1000 times larger and more detailed than halo2..yet its only at most twice as large as halo2...)
on some site there was/is a downloadable 100kb executable wich launched a 3d gamedemo with auwsome 3d graphics...YES...about 100k in total!!!) The demo should still be downloadable

And one more very important fact :
3) The BLURAY player has half the speed of the xbox360 dvd player!!!!!!!.....YOU DO NOT WANT TO USE LARGER STORAGE TO BYPASS COMPRESSION!!!!!!!
believe me..better to have the decompression done by CPU (xbox does).. than wait 5 to 10 times longer for loading a scene!!!!!..or graphics

STORAGE WAS NEVER THE PROBLEM ..ONLY THE READING SPEED!!.. That is why games were burnt on a special way (large game files which were needed for loading are burned/placed on the outher side of the disc because the reading speed is greater at the most out side of the dvd disc)

Sony is just digging up reasons to justify the built in Bluray player...thats normal..thats commerce

I don't know if I should feel sympathy for all the Xbox fanboys trying to rationalize about this, or simply laugh at them, since this little piece of info just debunked all the shit they've been spewing since E3 2005.

A lot of what you say is not even remotely relevant, robleroy. There are many advantages of having this much storage, no wonder developers are so excited about Blu-ray. So, between believing you, and believing the developers (tons of them), I'll choose the devs, thank you very much. And as they say, "proof is in the pudding", and the pudding just came out to light.

The cost of Blu-ray has just been justified.

Besides robleroy.... remember every PS3 has an HDD, and that every developer has been adviced to use it in order to reduce loading times? That's right, you can be silent now.

More storage will never be a bad thing. But in the short term will it lead to better games?

Guys, the RSX chip internally handles lossless texture compression just like ATI and NVidia cards do on the PC. They are not putting uncompressed texture data on the disc.. there's absolutely no point to doing so.. it would make level loading take longer and it would gain them absolutely nothing.

And Joe, even if RSX did not handle texture compression compression, the Cell is actually the best CPU chip out there for handling streaming (geometry, sound, fmv) decompression, because it has the 6 SPE's available for doing the decompression. Remember, Toshiba demonstrated a Cell system simultaneously rendering 48 dvd resolution mpeg2 streams.

The Insomniac team did some truly great stuff on PS/2 (though using Naughty Dog's engine, not their own from-scratch tech).. I fully expect them to be doing great things on PS3.