Rumor: Will Nintendo punk us with the Wii?

I don't believe Nintendo is gonna Punk Us. I'm not getting the Wii for it's graphics anyway. With Nintendo it's always been about the gameplay. Besides, I will have XBOX360 and PS3 for my graphics fix.

The best part about this rumor is most people don't care if it gets a graphical boost or not. Nintendo has downplayed graphics for a long time, in favor of gameplay. I bet a lot of devs, unsure of the control scheme for the Wii, took existing games that were already programmed for the Gamecube, and tacked on the Wii controls just for the feel of it. They are working on gameplay and interaction, with graphics as an afterthought.

We already know the Wii is capable of producing visuals better than the Gamecube. And if Resident Evil 4 is any indication, as well as LoZ:TP, I think we will be plenty satisfied with its graphical prowess.

http://www.exisle.net/mb/lofiversion/index.php/t32533.html
That shows the difference in graphics of the ps2 and gamecube. The ps2 version looks good but is definetly a lot blander than the gamecube version.

Waccoon im sure you made some good points but seriously man you need to learn to cut back on your posts. I started reading it and then decided to see how long it was. Its not a post, its an essay O.o; I just checked and its 4pages in microsoft word.

I have to say intangible fact i think you deserve a -1star for lying you said
''I owned all the systems last gen and I only recall one game on the gamecube that hyped me up on graphics and that was RE4. It was only good because of the pre-rendered backgrounds.''
Yet if you actually had RE4 theres no way you would think it was pre-rendered. Also as you then say metalgear looks better yet I remember some post comparing the amount of polygons used on a character between it and RE4 and RE4 was far far far higher. Here we go I found it

''The problems seem to stem from the PlayStation2's memory, of which is only 4-8 bits, while the GCN has 24. Futhermore, the polygon count is quite difficult to raise. The GCN model of Leon has 10,000 polygons, while the PS2 version is just nudging 5,000. 5,000 is about the polygon count of villagers in the GCN version. How is the PS2 going to manage when they come on screen, sometimes in the teens at a time?

It might interest people to know that Snake in Metal Gear Solid 3 only has 4,000 polygons.''

To Waccoon @ Msg #138:

GOD Waccoon!
And I thought *I* made long posts!

I only speak as a customer.
All that technerd talk flies over my head.
It's the realm of the PC Gamer crowd which I most certainly am NOT a part of unless you count the simple parlor games on Yahoo, MSN & the like.

There's something called a track record.
And I would THINK that 23 years & 4 established home systems should be a good guideline to go by.
But that's just me.

I remember when I first came to Joystiq one exact year ago (or thereabouts) coming out of self-imposed gamescene hiatus & just started catching up reading news about the then-named Revolution.
There was this mysterious guy calling himself "RevPatentLeaker" who talked cryptically yet intriguingly about the art VS. the science in gaming.

That the gaming population was divided between those who appreciate the application of the end product and those who concentrate on the technical components.

Apparently he posted much in 2005 then disappeared. Yet many things he talked about seemed to come true. He had this whole prophet feel to him. Even if he was just doing some specialized guessing it was entertaining watching him go on.

I might have to search through these archives for his old posts to see how his little cryptic dialogue panned out.
For those curious, Google "RevPatentLeaker". I found a few results of his musings there.
[someone named PsyKyX quoted one of his posts on this link here from Aug 23, 2005: (scroll down some)]
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:9e3PdISK5PcJ:theboard.zogdog.com/lofiversion/index.php%3Ft7809.html+revpatentleaker&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=11

To me all of that technical talk is sort of meaningless. I KNOW it's important to have the right tools to get the job done but I ALSO think that there's a such thing as skillful design where you can take a little & make it a lot. Smart architecture.

And REALLY speaking as an artist myself I know with the right art & skill you can take the ordinary & make it the sublime. It's REALLY all in how you apply those tools.

It's not like we're dealing with NES hardware. What the Wii has in store is enough to compete on the visual level I'm certain.
Nintendo's track record underlines this fact.
And also knowing gaming history & where we ARE at THIS point in gaming history makes it clear to me that those type of worries are useless.

Graphics have reached a saturation point & it is not all about that anymore. That is true. The graphics are indeed secondary to the experience moreso now than ever before.
If they improve that's cool but in the last generation we've already seen games that made gamefigures look exactly like the sketches, toys, & renderings that come out of the maker's imagination. Both cartoonish AND realistic design were finalized in the outgoing 6th generation.

Before this in the 5th generation we had 50% with the abstract polygon look. Both in cartoon AND in realistic forms. It's been solved now.

In the dawning 7th generation (and every generation after that) all that will happen is merely refinement of what was achieved in the 6th.

The fact that Gamecube could produce the visuals it did at the size it was at the price it was shows me clearly that the Wii will be fine.
And no it wouldn't shock me if Nintendo was playing possum with the graphics in order to get people to concentrate on the control possibilities. Along with playing mind games with the competitors which we've seen they are good at.

This buzz is no coincidence. People know it's the calm before the storm. Nintendo STILL hasn't told us specifically very much about what the system is made of & how it works & it's almost September! Yet the anticipation for this project is at an uncanny high.

MOS' DEF' Nintendo has a punk card or two left to play on all of us. And when they play it whatever it is it will be the first step on their return to home console dominance.
It would be only fitting that one of them be the graphics psych as that shows itself to being one of the last barriers to Wii-adoption by some gamers.

As for me, don't bore me with hardware configs & specifiations. SHOW me what you can DO with that hardware in application. REALIZE the potential. Don't just talk about it. That's how I feel.
John Lucas

Thanks Waccoon for the great post. You detailed many of the points I was going to bring up.

Plain and simple, all we've seen are DEV kits. Of course the final product is going to be faster, but it's not some evil plan by Nintendo. See Waccoon notes about the 360 dev kits -- did Microsoft surprise us with some "unknown graphic feature" at release even though the dev kits used a completely different piece of hardware?

Has Nintendo EVER produced a product with shocking graphics? You couldn't even see the screen on the GBA because Nintendo was too cheap to include a backlight. Don't get me started about the N64. (And I'm a Nintendo fanboy!)

I definetely do not expect to see any graphic improvements with the final product. It's too close to launch. If this were true, we would have already seen a blurry cell phone snapshot of some new chip.

Now, something I have been thinking about....Maybe Nintendo is going to start doing with the home console what they did with the handheld. More, backward compatible, minor upgrades on a frequent basis. As they did with the GB, GB Color, GB SP, GBA, DS, DS Lite, etc.

Could we see a new Wii with HD output a year from now? I'm thinking yes. Nintendo is very good at having you buy something you already have. "Look, Zelda in HD! Here's 50 bucks."

Lol- xbox420- thats pretty good lol

I don't care how badly they downplay their product. I don't even care if they don't run any commercials. I'm still buying this thing and I'm still going to call it a revolution damn it.

Gimme a "B"

Gimme an "S"

What's that spell?

This Post!

I actually think this is true. I read something like that here a while back:

http://gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=61928

But even if the graphics weren't any better than what we've already seen, I'm still gonna get it! Gameplay matters more to me than graphics anyway. And the Wii has seriously kick-ass games.

Reviews on the net everywhere were about how dissapointing RedSteel was when it was showcased at E3. I think the general summary was that it was fun but not really awesome.

But check this address for someinteresting hints on Wii's technology:

http://www.cubed3.com/news/5818

I dont believe that the wii can match the PS3's raw power and i dont believe it was Nintendo's intention too.

What i do believe is that we have yet to see the wii's true capability and so i am inclined to believe that Nintendo jus might pull a rabbit out of its hat with some above decent graphics.

For your information, my laptop can push out some wonderfull graphics, and the battery takes up 1/4th its size. Now 12 inches isn't that big of a device at all! I highly doubt this will happen, but hey...A guy can dream cant he?

I'm a Nintendo fan, but I also do not believe this rumor. I have an older CRT hidef tv, probably not much over 720p. Personally, I think Hi Def won't be too important to gaming for some time. If it was so important, then why are newer, hi-def games not getting 10 out of 10 (or 5, or whatever your scale is). It's because they have pretty graphics, impressive sound, and are repetitive as all get out, or just plain boring. I believe that a strong story, good character development, and fun gameplay will always win over pretty graphics.

The only thing that worries me is that just because the graphics aren't as pretty, doesn't mean developers will get the rest right either. The success of any console is in the hands of the game developers. We need another Shigeru Miyamoto to make games that are great, for any console.

Total bs. The national enquir... I mean Joystiq shouldn't run this crap.

But hell let's add fuel to the fire. Maybe you'll have to buy two and run 'em in parallel for hi-def. :P

I think that's plausible. It sounds like something nintendo would do, that's their way of sticking it to the man. Miyomoto is known for pulling pranks and gags, like the arwing in zelda 64. Nintendo is clever, you have to admit.

Brock, could you show me that website? I'd like to look into that.

a: No.

There was an arwing in Ocarina of time, infact the arwing is just one of many things found on nintendo games.

Go to the Ocarina of time Wiki page.

Back on topic I believ this to be possible, but I won't hold my breath, nintendo said they had one more secret left, lets just hope that this is that secret. If this did happen I won't be getting a Wii at launch, as my head would have exploded.

While I agree this is probably just a rumor made by someone on a random blog. I would not at all be suprised if this was true. Nintendo purposely downgrading thier graphics perhaps to veer attention away from the whole killer graphics aspect that Sony and MS have been putting out the past few years, and focusing on the other aspects of the system that make a Video Game a VIDEO GAME.

From the what little systems schematics given in the latest issue of Gamepro it really dosent look like it can do what the romur claims. Of course you have to think though, Nintendo has been so secretive about the Wii that they have only been releasing a few meek details every few months. For all we know they could have over a few million units ready to ship at a moments notice to stores around the country.

Either way the way Nintendo has been acting they probably are holding out on a few things to shock and amaze us as well as rough up thier competitors.

Nintendo has previously stated Wii would be 2-3x more powering than GC. They have never really reveal details on graphical prowes behind "Hollywood".

Given the fact that it would be doing SDTV, it wouldnt really need a GPU as powerful as xbox360 or PS3 to provide mind blowing visuals on a 480p (640x480).

It wont look as good as native HDTV games on xbox360/PS3, you wont tell the difference when everyone's on SDTV's 640x480.

Most cheap GPU these days (that support dx9c) can probably push games with all bells and whistles at 640x480. If you grab all current GPUs and scale them down to run graphics 640x480, they would likely all look the same, as it wouldnt really be GPU limited anymore. ATI current lowest x1000 base GPU can easily push 640x480 as well as their current top x1950 with most "mainstream" features enabled. Even the older X300 could do this. Once you bump the resolution to 1024x768, thats another story.

Compare this would graphics pushed by GC, i'd say there'd still a lot of room for upgrade in their graphics -- if the GPU is based on any of the "X" GPU or better.

well, if you think about it they have to have something extrafor really one main reason. That reason is that this is gonna be a major console and not a virtual reality console. Nintendo wouldn't dare try virtual reality again after the virtual boy...would they?

replay to waccom:

Man I havn’t heard people use filter In a long time. I mean quake 3 came out over 7 years ago it seems and people have been calling the effects like normal mapping , self shadowing ( the real next gen effects) shaders .Filters are for simple stuff like layering textures and normal photoshop work. It is not a popularity thing ethier. People have been using that since siggraph a few years ago.. A filter enables bump mapping and alphas you know simple stuff. SSS light like what you see in super Mario galaxy is a shader. Every DCC package calls it that…LOL There is no way in hell a filter can do SSS or normal mapping. That’s why there is no Zbrush filter for photoshop. The difference is a shade is more like a small program. It is possible to stream a texture in but most of them are loading into memory directly( this is why most textures are 256, 512 and 1024… That’s why even the GC has texture compression.

Also too go look up 1t-sram and tell me what the bandwidth is or I’ll make it simple the 1t-sram is superior to the edram in the xbox360s frame buffer… What is the bandwidth before they (MS)tacked on the low speed bus? Yeah it’s shy of 200g/s(plus actually). Why do you think Nintendo is going with an LSI. With this ram topping out at an amount of 88 megs why not throw 512 of normal xbox type ran in there? You don’t need it.. Go look at the out put of most Graphic cards. A high resolution is the only application that needs a Large Mhz cpu and Gpu. Don’t believe me then go to any hardware reviewers site. You only get to run the actually game close to 60 frames. I mean hell I can run doom3, quake 4 at 800 by 600 and get 80 frames a sec on a system that was bought over 4 years ago. I just needed to upgrade the graphics card. Believe me every one who buys the xbox360 and the ps3 to run on a normal tv or wasting about 200 dollars.

Please man I know the blue ray cost has to be cheap material wise but sony has to recoop that r&d so if some one else made the blue ray drive then you would see sony taking it out…and giving us a PS3 at around xbox 360 prices… even Ms took out the HD adapter because it would have put there console into that unreachable zone for the common gamer. Face it there are a lot more kids playing games than the hardcore gamers out there around 20 something… and mom and pop aren’t going to let them play on there 2,000 tv because of fears of burn in and other things like a limited life of the actual tv’s display… Which shouldn’t be a concern…

So you seem to know some things about computers… So tell me why they can not get more bandwidth out of a Lsi design with better memory to equal an out put as good as the xbox 360 or even the PS3? Imagine the Ps3 with out the RSX? Using an emotion engine…LOL.Imagine the emotion engine upgraded well that’s sort of what the Cell is if you know the old ps2 chip set(infact the PS2 could have done most of whats been done on HD systems in a SD format if it had a real GPU. Remember it’s much easier to build on some thing that was done right the first time… Just because the gpu is part of the same family doesn’t mean it is crippled or can not be extended? It means that they(art-x) just like Nvidia and ati believe in different methods to getting the out put they need. Before you go on about how good ati or nvidia is remember who wanted to buy who. If you are better than the company that your about to buy then why buy them?

After all of this debate about if it could be possible for the real wii chip set to push better graphics it comes down to if they even feel the need to… Which is partly answered by most fan boys of Nintendo… “nah it’s game play that matters”… personally I’m hoping for Nintendo to push it’s partners and get their moneys worth out of r&d… But it’s alittle too late for that.

Hoping nintendo does this will not set me up for a fall ethier. They will do this or they won't, graphics will continue to evolve. Even if it is a over clocked flipper and gecko I still expect some ... Yes some improvements in graphics... It's all about artistic excution...

Well here looking forward to some good gaming none the less this holiday season.

Even the hardware of the ps3 and xbox360 is confusing to most gamers. Parallel processing is only really useful for graphics chips right now and server fuctions. I too believe that the power of the cell hasn't been taped yet( yet we'll see what factor 5 can do and it is a shame that the guys at crytek are going to give it a try).

It's funny but reading most of the fan boy posts here it seems as though they are not into the latest graphical goodness nor do they even care how it is made or what is even possible. truthfully to those guys it's about is it cool... So with that being said why even post to tell me not to ponder what ifs? I'm clearly not talking about if it will be cool... I'm looking at what tools developers will have and hope we can see alittle what ati/amd has in store for computer graphics... Video games have advance computer graphics more than any thing even the movie industry.

So I'm a artist that happens to love gaming... Your a fan boy who just loves a certain company. Thats cool. I'll even root for you cuz we'll both end up winners. If your not into making 3d graphics then you shouldn't worry about nintendo's console but there are some developers who need this upgrade so that they can give you the art they wanted to make... along with a good game. If you read the post from guys who ARE into computer graphic hardware then you'll see it could be possible. Thats just from a PC builders point of view. The math for this is out there, but most of you guys are not hardcore PC FPS vets or DDC, VFX hobbiest or professionals. You are gamers and there is nothing wrong with that... nintendo's market is not that of the developer class ethier... which is pertty healthty for the industry. I believe this is why nintendo believes specs are not important because no matter what they put into this box the 360 and ps3 are going to win the "horse power war"(3 cpus at 3ghz WOW! , eight cores in the ps3 wow! man thats got to be powerful right! GT-HD yawn ZzzZZzzZZ). I guess the question is what this power can really produce... streaming 500 channel video feeds at the same time in thumb nail mode is cool but how much fun is that? It's about hyping up the fan boys to go out there and make every one believe that there system is the future? Which is exactly what the PS2 did even though it was the most inferior system of last gen. Even the dev house bought into it. Every one will admit that now but that was not the case two months after it came out. Nintendo learned a lesson from the nes up to the ps2 and DS. It's about the hype you build and the content you deliever. The customer is going to listen to the fanboys who talk system power until they see what that power is used for. For a while the ds was on even ground with the psp and in some cases falling behind... then the software came rushing in. The GC never even had close to ten must buy titles released at the same time it seemed...LOL But really I think the flow of titles and the addition to virtual console content will change that. Players will always have somne thing to do... plus all of those 10 year olds will pick up mario 1-3 and try to beat them... just because it's more challenging and plus us old timers will run through it and make them go wow... I've seen it from arcades to home consoles it happens every time. Hell we're seeing it now with new super mario bros. I mean some of nintendo's best selling "game" are not your normal video games... They are taking the checkers are chess route... those games don't need graphic upgrades becuase game play is what matters. Ahhh yes nintendo's fanboy Claim to victory.. but it's true... even though a certain level of polish is needed ethier graphicly or presentation wise.

Enter the shader guys and normal map goodness... go check out zbrush 2.5 and tell me video games can't look like that...

Wait hold up they will epic is using that very tool on their current projects... yes gears of war has it and they even reveal how it's done on the unreal engine 3 tech site. Really think about it... does it really cost that much silicon to put normapping into a nintendo LSI? This is part a of a shader setup... This is not a mhz thing... these are simple shader pipelines that even ati's and nvidia budget cards will run at SD type resolutions.

truthfully sony and MS need to push theater like experiences out to there buyers yet with out the same gross as a moive which is a loseing battle. This is their battle plan. I hope it works personaly also because only japan still even considers gaming a staple in their culture. The graphics sony and MS needed are being produced by guys like Panzar.com and behind the scenes modelers like Jeff Unay. There systems come close but really needs more polygons and sub-d nurbs are not yet supported in their hardware with out a hit preformance wise.

But hey Graphics are about to take another leap forward which is good... and gaming has all the bases covered this time around... Hopfully all formats survive...

Nintendo has already told us they're hiding something huge in their graphics department!!! It's even on their site!!

Why would they say this?

"Graphics: Being developed with ATI."

That's EXTREMELY vague compared to the rest of what they say on their hardware specs.

I do think there's something going on...and it may just turn out; "Hey, you American fools thought we were hiding something! zomg lolz!!!" but I sure hope not!!!

#4 Ichidou your right that would be Nintendo. And it obviously would be a smart move right about now!


#8 Rijen are you trying to say its not possible to release the full end specs of a system? Because if it is all you have to look at is the SNES it got a upgrade (granted it had to to compete). Are look at the Xbox it got a upgrade on the CPU last two months before release. So what is irrational about Nintendo doing it? Even if these previous examples didn’t exist it would not be irrational. So I see you as a hypocrites! Do your own research and be reasonable before you go accusing.


I think if I can build a PC from scratch for under $170 that is several times faster than the Gamecube, then Certainly Nintendo can. Especially since they don’t even have to include all the extras that come with a PC

this is probably not a 100% match, but it would give you a good gauge at what Wii can do graphically for games.

The closest PC to a wii hardware (speculated specs) would likely be the old G4 Mac Mini at lowest config. Grab this, force resolution down to 640x480; and load a few "mac games" into it. You'll notice graphics would still be plenty for casual gamers with enough room jiggle.

The Wii would be more dedicated hardware for games, without the overhead of an full Operating system.

As indysurfn mention, I also think I can build a cheap low-end pc for under 170, that can easily push any of today's game at 640x480 with bells and whistles. It should give most gamers their gfx fix for couple years, before they prepare for the generation of consoles after this.

Sony is trying to make the ps3 good for 10 years... I dont even know how they can pull this off, I think xbox360/ps3 will easily be outdated in 4-5 years time. And it will take about 2-3 years just to start getting good at making games to fully take advantage of their hardware. By then, Nintendo should have enough time/room to refresh their next generation console that would match, or exceed the ps3 and current xbox360.

but you know what? I'm buying all 3 consoles regardless. and I own a 360 now. I just think it's almost silly to release consoles that are "too ahead of our time" that no developer can really take full advantage of until 2-3 years down the line. By then, the cell processor would be cheap enough for nintendo to consider using it in their next generation if they wanted to.

Remember RE4? Did any of you really think the best looking game of the last Gen would be on the Cube, cause RE4 on the Cube looks better than the PS2 version, so if the cube can do that, I'm expecting at least another big surprise like this from Wii.