Are games making us wimps?
While Jack Thompson and his ilk continue to argue that games are making us too violent, at least one blogger is arguing the opposite. As part of his "Carnival of Modern Man" series of columns, blogger raybacon argues that our regular escapes from reality are "launching a generation of wimps into the world."The author, an admitted non-gamer, argues that video games are inherently meaningless and simply serve as an escape from the harsh reality of the real world. Further, he says that people who eschew "real" experiences to sit in front of a monitor for hours on end turn into "a bunch of guys who's only recourse when 'times get tough' is to dive into a world ruled by megabytes."
Obviously, games are no replacement for actually living life, but everyone needs an occasional escape from the day-to-day grind. Just because playing a game of Madden is more sedentary than playing a real game of football doesn't mean it's inherently worse, as long as the correct balance is kept. Everything in moderation, as they say.
[Via PSFK]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
skr1lls @ Aug 29th 2006 2:00PM
i wanna fight that dude.
how's that for being a wimp.
Tetranitrocubane @ Aug 29th 2006 2:03PM
Wait, I thought video games were turning us all into bloodthristy murder-machines?
Well, mainstream media? Which is it?
Kendrick @ Aug 29th 2006 2:04PM
So, do organized sporting events keep us from being able to settle real conflicts? Do motion pictures promote impatience by keeping us from any activity that lasts more than two hours? Does literature keep us from handling the unexpected by reinforcing narrative structure?
Gaming is an escape from the real world, but it's also a part of that world. It's a perfectly legitimate leisure activity, and in some cases it can actually be an expression of art. At the same time, I don't think it's worth trying to win converts. Everybody will necessarily have different standards of entertainment.
Franky Digital @ Aug 29th 2006 2:04PM
This is like the argument from a while back about talking about games versus talking about sports, which turned out to reveal that both are equal in terms of social contribution. The answer to the riddle is that squawking about what other people chose to do with their time is a waste of life. Live and let live.
PachuyiChomp @ Aug 29th 2006 2:07PM
I wonder if he goes out to bars, watches movies, watches plays, or just about anything else a normal human does for fun (reads a book?). All of those I would say are escapes from reality. Some might even argue going to Church is an escape from reality. If the 70s era of drugs didn't churn out a society of whimps with their pot smokers... oh wait strike that point from my list of points buncha whimpy hippies!
Anyway, I don't think video games are anymore of an escape than say a book or a movie and people have been reading books since the alphabet was invented.
Frosty22 @ Aug 29th 2006 2:08PM
umm... i just play vid games because sometimes i have nothing better to do.
Derbeste @ Aug 29th 2006 2:09PM
I don't think this means he is argueing the OPPOSITE of good ole' JT. JT has said he finds videogames to be a "masturbatory" experience.
But that is what all these things are really. Escapes. You certainly don't masturbate to replace reproduction.
Similarly, you don't play a football videogame to replace real football either.
therefore, I reject the idea that people are using videogames to REPLACE real life. But merely to escape it for a time.
In fact, escapes from the riggors of reality happen SO often we have a word set aside just to describe them.........
Hobbies.
Now like Kyle suggested, everything must be done in moderation. Some hobbies can be taken to excess....but then again.....what can't? People have to curb eating, sleeping, dieting (anerexia), and videogame habbits (just to name a few) almost constanstly to keep them under control.
In fact, we SEVERAL words for people that lose control of their hobbies and desires.......
Obsession
Compulsion
Addiction
Fanatic
Fixation
Disorder
etc.
In short...
ANYTHING can make you a wimp if you let it control you. Videogames don't have a monopoly on this phenomenon. It's just the latest form of media to get this berrating.
Gonzo @ Aug 29th 2006 2:09PM
Well... I would probably be a wimp if I didn't practice martial arts.
Games are a fun hobby, but if that's all you do, you are kind of gyping yourself.
This guy does make an point that I've made many times: people like games (especially violent ones)because it offers a convenient and immediate escape. They allow us to vent our frustrations and stress in a world made for that.
If people like Jack Thompson and Joe Pitts spent more time actually trying to improve the real problems in society, less people would want to play the especially violent games.
Of course they aren't going to do that because it's allot easier to complain about something out of your controll than to actually do something usefull.
They're just lazy lunatics.
dvnt @ Aug 29th 2006 2:13PM
Unfortuneately, "moderation" to the hardcore gamer means 'just don't play so much that it affects my job'. Though some will still play WoW all night and go to work the next day on 3hrs of sleep.
So they spend their free time sitting in a chair staring at a cathode ray tube (or LCD) for hours on end. Not exactly encouraging blood flow to the extremeties or exercise. You're also not sharpening your social skills by interacting face-to-face with others. Therefore, turning you into a weanie. The guy has a point.
I used to be hardcore about my gaming but have since declined into a casual gamer due to graduating college and having been in "the real world" for a few years now. I've dropped out of MMO's entirely and have taken up new hobbies other than video gaming, though I'm still passionate about games. (why else would I be here)
I'm excited about the Wii. I hope it gets to be exhausting to play once in a while. Doing something I enjoy without begin super lazy about it.
Evan @ Aug 29th 2006 2:14PM
All the "1337" *ssholes who talk sh*t and brag about "pwning" each other on XBL are compensating for something.
Pyrocy @ Aug 29th 2006 2:15PM
The author, an admitted non-gamer...
It's funny how "non-gamers" know everything there is to know about gaming. It's like the government telling us that marijuana causes global genocide.
H-QB @ Aug 29th 2006 2:17PM
Im probably going to agree on that. Videogames ARE a type of escapism from reality, and in recent years, people are infact "escaping from reality" a bit too frequently and probably more than what is healthy. And for some people videogames seem to REPLACE their reality
This comes as no surprise when i read an article about how today's generation are also hypersensitive to criticism. Which stems from having sheltered lives. D=
Of course theres the matter of "Videogames causes violence in today's kids" ... Well, no, "VIOLENT videogames can cause violent behaviour to kids presdesposed to violent tendancies". But again, violent videogames arent the sole culprit.
The lesson to learn today? Games are fun, but cant replace life. So enjoy them in moderation. =D!
Snurp @ Aug 29th 2006 2:20PM
This point isn't as illegitimate as it seems.
I think there could be evidence supporting this if you look at examples of people in east Asia. There are people (albeit very few) who have died from playing games while ignoring all else for too long. And in Japan, many young people are in fact buckling under the pressure of a demanding society and locking themselves in their rooms for days, months, years at a time, with much of that time playing videogames.
Are videogames the causes of death and social seclusion? On their own, I would say no. There are much greater problems that need to be fixed first, like raising children properly. But because of their seeminly secluded nature, videogames can be seen to be causing the loss of real-life survival skills.
And just for the record, using "wimps" like that is spoken in the manner of a true jock.
H-QB @ Aug 29th 2006 2:38PM
@Snurp
In Japan, its called Hikikomori.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
(.________o;; STRANGE AINT IT?
Patrick @ Aug 29th 2006 2:40PM
I know some gamers who have kicked my ass before.
Jay @ Aug 29th 2006 2:41PM
While I believe both the article of discussion here and Jack Thompson are both discussing extremes ...
I'd guess it's more likely that games are turning people into wimps rather that violent offenders. I know very few heavy gamers that would stand a chance in a real fight :P And, I'm not sure games get you to stand up for yourself ...
Then again, I don't think sports get you to stand up for yourself -- as you're brow-beaten into submitting to what's best for the team.
OtakuCODE @ Aug 29th 2006 2:48PM
Yawn, yet another argument dredged up from centuries gone by.
"Don't let your kids read too many books! It'll make them weak and unable to work the farm!"
Seriously, folks. Learn some history and wisen the hell up, it's getting tiresome hearing the same crap over and over for thousands of years.
Ahms @ Aug 29th 2006 2:51PM
Just ask yourself, for all the time you've spent on the net or playing a game, what else could you have been doing instead?
Do you know what people do who aren't so net savvy or into gaming do? Maybe other hobbies like art or reading? Sports? Actual social-activities that have you face to face with people?
I do believe that hanging around here too much or getting *too* hooked on games and neglecting the rest of the world does ruin you some, especially your self-confidence. If you don't have alot of confidenec, in what sort of medium would you find yourself in? The one with alot of people around, or the one where you can be more solo and dictate your conversations with others?
If you work in an office, you should know this. Would you rather have a discussion/argument on the phone/face-to-face, or shoot emails off?
Of course a non-gamer would see this, this is a gaming forum where most everyone is going to disagree with *anything* bad said about their beloved hobby. I love games, I was raised on them, but saying that excess usage of them doesn't affect your behavior somewhat is ignorant; you don't gain speech skills by typing
Griffon @ Aug 29th 2006 3:00PM
This from a blogger? Can you say Pot and black?
Never mind that his same argument applies to Tv, Books, listening to music or anything else that can distract the mind. Gaming has more stimulus and social context then TV actually.
Jeff @ Aug 29th 2006 3:22PM
I'm old enough to actually be in a position to hire people at my company. (I don't work in HR or anything like that, but I do interview people for my own department.) And I can't even tell you how many 20-something kids we've had in here with no interviewing skills whatsoever, no self-confidence and little real-world experience, but that still somehow act like they expect to get the job. (They'll say things at the end like "when should I expect to start?" or even "when do we talk about salary?")
Now, I'm not saying this is all related to gaming. There have been people like this forever. But I definitely think that whereas in the old days people might be out building social skills and networking with real people, today they may be *at best* sitting on Xbox Live and trash talking. That's assuming they're not playing solo all the time. So they end up thinking they're l33t when really they're at the bottom of the social barrel.
I don't think the issue is about gaming making people physical wimps. It's about them being unprepared for real life. That's not just down to gaming, but to our entire modern culture - of which gaming is now a big part. It's no secret that people spend a whole lot more time sitting on the couch than they used to, that people drive places they would have walked to in the past (thereby avoiding speaking to anybody on the way), that they do a lot of things online, that they spend less leisure time outside the house in general. All of that adds up to a serious lack of real-world experience and social skills.
This is by no means universal. But it's a noticeable shift, almost a new subculture of people that are otherwise smart, educated people but that just have no idea how to actually talk and act around others, even when their own interests and future are at stake.
Matt @ Aug 29th 2006 3:26PM
What about the billions of "wimps" who are controlled by the corporate sponsored marketing thinly disguised as entertainment that most of us refer to in general as simply "television?"
Judd @ Aug 29th 2006 3:54PM
Let's hypothetically say that this guy is right. What's so great about the real world anyway? There are a lot of jerks and idiots out there. I don't mean to sound bitter, and it's not like I never leave my house, but for a lot of the time if I'd rather not go out, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. Everyone has shit happen and there's nothing wrong with having something to escape to. In fact everyone escapes reality with something. It's just that video games are a newer medium, and it is blamed as the reason people hide from their problems. How is TV any worse than videogames, at least with videogames you have some control over your world. Some people try reading a book when they don't want to deal with the world, but that's always potrayed as a positive thing. You ever remember hearing PSA's as a kid talking about how if you read you can escape to a fantasy world, how is that good but gaming is bad? In fact many people avoid the real world by much worse means , such as over eating and using drugs. There's a difference in being a wimp and being smart, and if someone can find a way to avoid being unhappy without having to resort to drugs or violence I'd say that's smart. Who decided that going outside was such a good thing anyway?http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1999/09/24
Brad Lee @ Aug 29th 2006 4:05PM
Whats the difference between using video games as escapism as opposed to other things? Quite frankly, I'd say video games as escapism is far better than TV (because at least you're providing physical imput), and far, far better than drugs or alcohol.
Video games are a form of entertainment, and just like any entertainment it is a form of escapism. Many gamers use video games as a break from reality the same way other people use books, television, or alcohol.
Besides, the fact that this particular blogger doesn't even play video games should discredit his opinion entirely. Thats no different than when kids from my church used to try and convince me that The Simpsons was evil, even though they had never watched it before.
Bertrand @ Aug 29th 2006 4:10PM
Nothing backs this guy's claims. On the internet, you'll find people claim anything and everything. Why pay any attention to this one, who is obviously just stating vague impressions he has of something he doesn't know?
Franky Digital @ Aug 29th 2006 4:28PM
Like someone else noted, it's hard to read his article and take it seriously given the irony of his posting such an opinion on the internet. Perhaps a more suitable forum for his ideas would be the bar, where he surely would have been punched by some drunken "wrassler".
nalgae @ Aug 29th 2006 5:27PM
>OtakuCODE
That's actually funny, because though we have a rise in intellectual, college-bound people, we are also seeing a rise in obesity, Type II diabetes and heart disease. Books, TV and video games are all replacing physical activities. Remember when kids used to want to go to the playground or the park to play? I did. My parents never bought me a video game system (though when I was 6 the NES was already out), so I always wanted to go outside. Nowadays? Kids would much rather watch TV or play video games. The smarter ones read books of increasing complexity. Very few, though, kids are attempting to do any physical activity anymore, unless directly encourage by their parents.
By pointing at books and movies and TVs, you're not defending video games. You're simply pointing at other sources of the problem. If you're one of those games that also work out and go out and hang out with friends, cool! You have no problem. But if you're the type to come back from work/school and unwind with a whole night of WoW or Halo 2, really, can you defend yourself? Time spent gaming(/TV/Movies) is time not spent doing physical activity, or social networking, or learning useful skills (.NET programming vs CS:Source, which one has more job potential?).
Pal @ Aug 29th 2006 5:31PM
Me playing Final Fantasy and other games that mellow me out makes me not want to be violent, because through RPGs (JRPGs, mind you), I have turned into a much more fulfilled person that doesn't want to fight.
But there is a huge difference from starting a fight and not fighting back. I wouldn't start a fight, but if someone deserves a punch back, a punch back they will get (this is, of course, if under no surveillence of the authority).
CC @ Aug 29th 2006 5:35PM
"a bunch of guys who's only recourse when 'times get tough' is to dive into a world ruled by megabytes."
This comes from a guy who spends his time on a blog?
John Lucas @ Aug 29th 2006 5:51PM
Since the beginning of time there has always been one human ignorant about the activities of another human making unqualified judgments.
EVERYTHING is an escape from reality INCLUDING sports—whether passively watching or actively playing.
The only things any species is supposed to do are eat/drink, sleep, breathe, survive & reproduce.
There really isn't much more to life than that.
Everything we add onto these things are diversions from that plain-faced reality.
What tangible purpose to the bare essentials do games like football or basketball have? Similar things to what videogames have. They can build certain physical & mental skills in the process of the sport or game.
But outside of that they really serve no integral purpose as to the basics. They're just fun & bring joy to life.
This is nothing but jealousy.
They call this "haterism" in the biz.
It's a big phenomenon. He doesn't understand it. Many people do it. And he feels left out.
So he throws sour grapes at the pastime.
Life is short & reality sucks. Anything that brings pleasure to life (without harm to another) is a good thing......Period.
Everything we do in civilization are things to enhance our livelihoods & get a little break from the machinery of reality.
I would call THIS guy the *wimp* because he'd rather piss & moan about gaming than just pick up a pad & play. All because he's on the outside looking in to a world he can't understand. Yet he's not brave enough to take that first step to understanding the world that bewilders his mind.
Seinfeld would call these types "Fun Nazis".
And pleasure should NEVER be "in moderation".
John Lucas
Elpea @ Aug 29th 2006 6:03PM
Better a whimp than responsible for every god damn school shooting.
Ocho @ Aug 29th 2006 6:35PM
I sometimes need an escape from the harsh reality of the real world. When 'times get tough,' I prefer shooting up heroin and beating my wife. Who's the wimp now, bitch?
H-QB @ Aug 29th 2006 7:12PM
Gawd, some of you people...
If EVERYONE is doing it, and in some worst case scenario of "Lets all stay home and veg out infront of "
... who the hell is running the world? We better have come up with robots by then dont you think?
H-QB @ Aug 29th 2006 7:13PM
errr...
"If EVERYONE is doing it, and in some worst case scenario of "Lets all stay home and veg out infront of -insert entertainment system-"
.. lol pointy things
jusmailuck @ Aug 29th 2006 8:30PM
What the heck is this now?
What are we supposed to follow?
Jack Thompson saying we're a bunch of savage, dimwitted pigs who could lash out at society at any given moment?
Or this guy saying that we're all doomed to be complete push-overs?
TeddyN @ Aug 29th 2006 8:47PM
I just want to say that he's got a very good point and it's one that makes much more logical sense then the 'they make you violent' theory. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ancient Romans, with their distinct lack of digital entertainment, lived in a society in which death was something casually dished on the streets of even the world's most prosperous city, and sex was an everyday commodity.
Beyond that however, it is interesting to note that Marine Corps boot camp (and perhaps others, but the USMC is the main one I know about) has seen some significant changes in the past 20 years. Drill Instructors nowadays tend to complain of the softeness of recruits- and I have read of many attributing it to the 'video game generation', with their wimpy reluctance to go out and brawl with others. To combat this increasing influx of recruits who have 'never even taken a punch in their lives', pugil stick fights (which is where each recruit has a soft stick and tries to defeat the other) have become a much more important component of basic training. And it makes a heck of a lot more sense, too, that you would end up less good at fighting and killing if you spent your time sitting down in front of a screen in a semi-vegetative state (which is what I do).
One of the biggest ironies though, is that those who accuse games of turning individuals into psychotic killers tend to also be the ones most likely to subscribe to the stereotype of gamers as pale clamy nerds living in their parents' houses long into their 30's. How these two accusations can coexist is beyond me, but I suppose when you're dealing in ignorance you need no internal logic.
TeddyN @ Aug 29th 2006 9:06PM
We need to bring back the draft. It would be a win-win situation- if we (gamers) really are testosterone charged monsters, then we will make our nations strong and help protect the vulnerable.
If we are in fact delicate, fleshy, good-for-nothings, then the draft can protect society from collapse by toughening us up.
On a serious note though: the Jack Thompson camp and this new interpretaion represent two extremes of how we can view the long term impact of games on society. The truth will probably be somewhere in between and will almost definitely be far more banign. Video games will certainly have some kind of impact, and it could be somewhere between the introduction of the novel and the introduction of the printing press. But I wish people would stop being so paranoid about them and coming up with broad theories about how the human race will be experiencing tectonic changes.
snarfoogle @ Aug 29th 2006 9:35PM
@29: roffle.
Anyway, I thought this article was about how games are becoming progressively easier.
I was wrong.
Damn wrong.
Tondrin @ Aug 29th 2006 9:44PM
Well as i see it those of us who stay in and still get excersise with these and i quote "exersise games" good for us if you do nothing but blow jackals heads off buy a system link and start elitism on the internet thats your choice its not that kids are "softening up" its the fact that parents or children do this at school anyone remember that nerd at elementary school who would be the snot beat out of him just for being smart
Well thats the case here the bully (the author)
Is bashing something he/she never even divulged in and us (being the nerds) are getting a bad rep as schizophrenic psycopath killers who do things like the columbine thing where things like that are TRIGGERED by a lack of support or escapes from reality
Carl @ Aug 30th 2006 3:15AM
Who cares less what this man thinks, feels, does or says? - not I . What is so great about his "real world" anyways?- seems to me its all Terrorists, Diseases, so called Friends (who just want to borrow things, act out, or gain attention), Nuclear Doomsayers, Obesity, Global Warming, Deforestation ETC. You can stick the outside world as far as it will go- its been reviewed and it only got 2/10. - I would rather go on my 360 and play Oblivion. I am obsessed with games - they keep me sane- everyday I am grateful that I have a powerful, all-consuming, overwhelming and over-arching obsession to distract me from the horrors and degradations of this desultory and worthless planet that I must endure upon. I like going on holiday though.
John Lucas @ Aug 30th 2006 11:00AM
I wanted to post on that guy's blog but they only take comments from bloggers & I just didn't feel like going through the registration process. (I'm not a blogger)
Basically I was going to say to this guy that it is NOT videogames that are making people so-called "soft" but civilization ITSELF that makes people soft.
And THAT IS THE PURPOSE!
Everything we do here is to make life easier.
That's why we invent better tools & better services to deal with the harshness of nature.
Mankind didn't REALLY get to where he is by a "fistfight". Man didn't advance because of his physical prowess. He got to where he is by his MENTAL prowess. The mind. THINKING.
Physically we're laughable in comparison to other animals in the kingdom. Magnus Von Magnusson would be easy fodder for a common chimpanzee. Would rip him apart with the greatest of ease.
In actuality, men from long ago would look at the game of soccer as soft. Sport & game are for children. REAL men HUNT & CONQUER. Kicking a ball around in some mutated display of hunt & conquer is what the young do. It is practice for the day when they become men & join the hunt. Build skills that they will need to become better hunters in adulthood. Every animal in the kingdom has a youthful game that teaches them the skills they will use when they come adult. Dogs & how they teethe on your sneakers gritting teeth as they tug & pull. Cats & the ball of yarn. That's how they learn how to slash you with their claws.
With civilization however our dependence on this one-dimensional reality was given some leeway. We became smarter, used our heads, & learned how to provide for ourselves in better ways than just to go out & hunt. So those skills became a novelty as time went on. That's how sport began. That's how games began. Just an exhibition of our evolutional history. Just for show now (and money). Serves no intrinsic purpose to the essence of survival.
At this level of civilization many of our needs are taken care of more or less. Of COURSE we're soft! This is also the cause for so-called obesity as well. We don't have to do as much anymore to survive compared to times past.
He might as well say running water & indoor plumbing makes you soft. Toilet paper makes you soft. Shoes & socks make you soft. People used to walk entire continents barefoot! Tools make you soft. Why can't a man get the job done by his own bare hands? Why does he need a spear? Why does he need a knife? I don't see a bear using a those things when HE hunts. A lion neither.
Housing insulation makes you soft. The USDA makes you soft. Why back in the day men carved their world in STONE! The PRINTING PRESS made men soft. MUCH LESS the computer & its internet word applications like e-mail, IM, & blog. That made us SOFTER! Agriculture makes us soft. Oh so easy just having the food grow up right next to you. REAL men go out & hunt for their food. That's the easy way out.
The automobile made us soft as well as the boat (swim if you're a real man) as the train as well as the plane. The gun made us soft. Oh real easy shooting high speed projectiles from afar. Be a REAL man and FISTFIGHT me! It builds character (and a bunch of broken bones to boot. not to mention crushed egos).
His whole argument was silly & I suspect it was just a byproduct of age. The chemistry changes in the brain at certain ages & that's basically how people become "old" in the mindsets. Scared of worlds they don't understand & irrationally against them.
The powers of youth with its fearlessness & its thoughtlessness fades with age & can only be maintained with conscious effort. If not, you will fall into the patterns of only being comfortable in the world you knew & new things will make you tentative.
He puts down his brother just because he wasn't good at this GAME called soccer yet he wasn't MAN enough to try to best his brother in HIS realm: videogames. He'd probably say the same thing if his brother asked him to play chess.
"The Fistfight" (war) isn't gonna advane mankind to the level he is supposed to reach. ONLY WHEN we learn that our mind is the key to our advancement will we find that proper society. To THINK & use our minds to create a better world for ourselves.
There's a reason why the "Barbarians" fell out of favor & that word is more of an insult rather than a compliment today.
There's a place for physical exhibitions—it's part of out evolutionary history after all—but remember boxing is now a game, a sport. If you go out onto the street punching people, you go to jail.
It's not about the fistfight anymore.
Certain things are better left to game.
John Lucas
boots @ Aug 30th 2006 11:20AM
It comes from a moron, period.
Anyway, what can a non-gamer say? As stupid as it can get, it's surprising he gets so much attention considering HE DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT VIDEOGAMES, not to mention his opinion is as generalizing as it gets.
Joystiq should stop throwing a bone to every other attention seeking whore, like Jack Thompson or Raybacon.
Pince @ Aug 30th 2006 5:32PM
Dear Joystiq,
In response, it may be nice to poll the gaming populace around here regarding their levels of physical activity compared to time spent gaming. Now I am just curious. Personally, all of the gamers I know are still very active, but that really can't speak for a larger population.
Merus @ Aug 31st 2006 5:45AM
"video games are inherently meaningless"
Compared to movies?
I'm guessing this isn't his assertion, but then I see no reason why the skills learned in computer games can't carry over to the real world.
I mean apart from simulations and educational games.