Kaz says Blu-ray is the best choice for gamers

Hell yeah blu-ray matters cuz oblivion for the 360 almost completely filled up a dvd9, matter of fact, just the voiceovers filled up half of the disk !! Blu-ray does matter and is already being used by the developers.

The simple truth is that we won't know if BRD will be good for games or just a anti-piracy tool.

To the person that brought up first gen PS2 games that were CD; Just look at the size of Final Fantasy X vs the size of Final Fantasy XII. Correct me if I'm wrong but Final Fantasy X came out about a year after the PS2 came out and it is larger size then FFXII. Programers learn how to make games more efficient as the console progresses through the years. I am all for the top of the line componenets but are console gamers ready to pay the price? Are game developers willing to gamble with writing game code that fills up a BR that will cost 100s of thousands more? Hell I had a hard time telling myself that $400 isn't to much for a home console system let alone telling myself $500/$600 is worth it...

Blu-ray is the best choice of a media format that nobody asked for and nobody will use.

For one lets talk about 1080p and all these FMV that people are talking about that take up so much space. Personally if the PS3 is as powerful as people claim it is, then who needs FMV? Couldn't similar graphics be easily done on the powerful PS3? I agree with others here that Id rather see a bad-ass ingame cutscene that you know could happen in ingame play instead of watching a FMV that shows happenings, enviroments and stuff of the like that arent possible ingame...kinda takes the whole immersion feeling away from the game.

Second people are talking about the amount of RAM and textures space that these sytems can hold. As its been said on joystiq in the past...the 360 can use as much RAM in the system as it wants for graphics, say 50mb for system and 400mb+ for graphics. The PS3 is split 50/50 for the RAM...256 for system, 256 for graphics...first off what game system needs 256mb for system resources? At most after the minimal OS thats on the system, I would say 50mb MAX. The 256mb for video is EXTREMELY restrictive. Also, think of this. 1080p is 1920x1080 resolution...we know that. Show me a badass game (such as Crysis FOR EXAMPLE) that could run on a 7800GT at a 1080p resolution without sacrificing graphical options such as HIGH RESOLUTION TEXTURES (isnt that what alot of you are saying blu-ray is for?) and other things such as draw distance, shadows, FRAME RATE, etc. And no longer is the RSX GPU comparible to a 7800GTX due to the speed drop of the chip, was 550MHz Core/700MHz memory, but has been downgraded to 500MHz Core/650MHz memory, so even with 24 pipes the low clockrates make it not nearly as fast. Any PC gamer or overclocker can tell you that 50mhz on the core can make a big difference.

So personally the argument about the blu-ray disc holding more high res textures is irrelivent as the PS3 hardware it self TECHNICALLY cannot produce such high res graphics and still be able to maintain a solid playable framrate 90% of the time.

Also think of this. People here have said that audio and textures take up alot of space, thats why the bluray is needed. But this too is not so. All of Oblivion fit onto a single layer DVD. Half of that space was audio alone, meaning that only 2gigs or around there was space for graphics...still going to argue that 9gigs is not enough space? Get real people.

These are just my opinions as we all know, but bluray currently IS NOT NEEDED for gaming at this point in time...maybe 5-8 years from now 20+ gigs may become the norm...but only because hardware by that time will be able to handle the high res textures and audio thatll come from 20gigs of information, something current hardware, especially the PS3, cannot handle. Rant over.

broseph from Msg #50:
[[50. I'm just a simple caveman gamer who slipped and fell in some ice in 1985, only to be unfrozen now. Your new technology, it SCARES me. I look at the machine and think there must be ghosts and demons in there. So called optical discs are too shiny. Why can't we go back to the days of cartridges?

And to paraphrase the Simspons:
Aren't buzzwords like proactive and bleeding edge just what dumb people use to sound smart. I'm fired aren't I?]]

Somebody give this man a star for this post!
The Phil Hartman reference & the Simpsons quote was just classic!

Nah give him FIVE STARS!
HILARIOUS!
John Lucas

(one more star for the clever nickname "broseph")

whats the big deal about multiple discs. Is it really such a fuss. Okay, so a game like Baldur's gate, which, along with the expansion, ended up with like 6 discs, was excessive and the discs were sometimes hard to keep track of.
However, 2 or 3 discs doesnt seem like it should be such a big deal. At least not until we are consistently filling up 2 or 3 HD discs for all the games. I don't see that problem arrising very soon.

Open world games maybe good and all, but they are not the dominate formatt of game. While GTA is a fun series, it does tend to get old and having "breaks" or "levels" will always be the norm. But that really isn't the point I was trying to make.

But, someone telling me what I should consider an "inconvince" is just a horrid thought, espically with little to no justification. That is my main point.

it's funny to me how the same things were being said about CD before the Playstation launched ("Games don't *NEED* CD! it's a waste!"), and it soon became the standard.

then it was said, "Games don't *NEED* DVD! it's a waste! Sony just wants our money!". and DVD soon became the standard.

think about this: if it wasn't for the move to a higher capacity storage medium, games like GTA: San Andreas would never have come about. or at least not in the way they are now. the complete point of the GTA experience would have been ruined if we had to swap discs. imagine making it to San Fierro via disc swap, only to realize that the weapon you need is only available in Los Santos. back to Los Santos, and another disc swap, to get that weapon. the illusion of San Andreas being a seemless, "real" state would have been destroyed via disc swap. you'd be taken out of the game.

also, if Oblivion, as huge as a game as it is, takes up only 5 gigs for everything...

imagine a game (say, Oblivion in a futuristic setting), where each planet is the size of Oblivion (thus taking up 5 gigs each). 5 planets, each with different environments and locals. no imagine what it would be like to finally earn your starship after exploring Alderann for weeks and weeks, and you blast off into outerspace, towards that red orb that's been in the sky since you booted up the game, breaking the atmosphere and entering the cold of space (all in real-time, controlled by you), and getting closer to your destination, avoiding astroid belts and space pirates, finally entering the atmosphere of the red planet and seeing it sprawled out below you, a small city or port growing larger and larger as you touch down, and you have a whole new planet (with new resources and minerals to export) to explore. on a 25 gig Blu Ray, there would be *FIVE* of those huge planets. you'd be busy for months, if not years.

Maybe in 2010 HDTVs will have caught on,but right now average joe blow doesnt give a shit about HDTVS nor has any idea what blu ray is.Go out and actually talk to people dude.I'm not trying to be a know-it-all with this but it seems like everytime i'm on the floor in Bestbuy looking through movies I have to explain to some average customer what HDDVD and such is with regards to HDTVs and their replies are...well,less than enthralled. I'm a respected member of this BBS (at least I hope) so it's not like i'm making up these stories out of my asshole to "show you up" or anything,but it's the serious truth,the average person doesnt find the idea of buying a new tv set,a blu ray/hddvd player,and re-buying all their dvds exiciting. http://fyad.org/gi8t

Here's a little excerpt from that article I linked to.

"According to a report by Kagan Research on the penetration rate of HDTV sets, only around 10% of households had televisions capable of displaying high definition images at the beginning of 2005.

By the end of the DECADE, Leichtman Research Group puts that number at 55%."

Maybe if Sony was releasing the PS3 in 4 years from now the blu ray player would be justified,but right now it's catering to a tiny margin of rich folks and tech geeks. You think the average blue collar guy has an HDTV? Doubtful. This is the group of people that Sony captured with the PS2 that got them to number 1 last generation,the average joe,the casual gamer and the teenagers,but this time around there's no way in hell that's going to happen when they offer a $600 console that is "underpriced" according to them http://fyad.org/gi8v


Think about it though. How many teenagers,casual gamers,or mom and pops are going to see the competition at lower prices offering almost the same thing and say "Sure,i'll get the PS3 because it has blu ray for my non existant HDTV! It's future proof!". Is mommy and daddy going to walk into Walmart and get little Billy a PS3 when they see the 360 and Wii sitting there? To them it's all the same thing.

Who knows what could happen with HDTVs,blu ray,and HDDVD,but right now is not the time for it. The average consumer is more than happy with dvds. They give us substantial quality over VHS and we can use our existing television sets. The leap from dvds were enormous over vhs tapes,the leap from dvd to blu ray/hd dvd is..."Slightly better picture requiring a new tv set".

Sony comes out and says that digitally distributing and storing media on harddrives in 1 to 2 YEARS is the future while simultaneously pushing blu ray and saying it's "future proof"? ( http://fyad.org/gi9k )Either they know blu ray is useless at this time or they really are that fucking stupid. I'm glad the 360 didnt come with the HDDVD drive because it's something uneeded at this time and would just drive up the costs for something the masses couldnt even use. Why do you think Nintendo isnt in high def with the Wii? It's because they know that there's only a tiny,tiny margin of people with HDTVs,they said it themselves.

If Sony wants to be number 1 this round again they need to strip that console down to what it's supposed to be,a GAMING CONSOLE. If you want a blu ray player,then buy a blu ray player,but don't sit here telling me that $600 dollars for the PS3 is "a deal" because it's a "computer" ( http://fyad.org/gi9g ) and has a "revolutionary" optical drive in it that

-The majority can't use for movies

-Might not even catch on and go the way of the UMDS and every other piece of Sony media

-Make games cost between $60-$100 http://fyad.org/gi8r

Not to mention that the DVDs we have now for games are more than suitable for the games. Do you honestly think that any game developer is going to make a 25 GB videogame? Even if they did could you imagine the load times on the amazing Sony 2x reading blu ray player?It seems like that's all Sony is concerned with is their blu ray drive. The reason? Well,Sony gets royalties on every blu ray disc,so it's just Sony trying to run the media format through their PS3 rather than focusing on GAMES. http://fyad.org/gi9b

Sony really needs to get their shit together,REALLY needs to. As of right now it looks like the PS3 is going to be in last place in this "console war". They are catering to a small group of people with their $600 dollar goddamn "game console" and are giving the people who got them to where they are with games the shaft.

If they keep going the route they are I don't think "Worst Company of the Year" will be anything too harsh for what they will face up the road.
http://fyad.org/gi9c

"imagine a game (say, Oblivion in a futuristic setting), where each planet is the size of Oblivion (thus taking up 5 gigs each)."

Imagine paying $200 for 1 game...

@108 Figboy. "it's funny to me how the same things were being said about CD before the Playstation launched ("Games don't *NEED* CD! it's a waste!"), and it soon became the standard.

then it was said, "Games don't *NEED* DVD! it's a waste! Sony just wants our money!". and DVD soon became the standard."

??? With the Saturn and PSX we opened up our arms for CDRoms, we even dealt with the outrageous load times for it for the nice audio and video and price.
PS2 we welcomed DVD as the next step for a few reasons; 1. A bounus DVD player, 2. The price was going to be the same as PSX at launch $300, 3. Many PSX games were 2, 3 and even 4 discs.

We welcomed CD and DVD with open arms in the years past I'm not sure where you got your info Figboy. If you were a gamer back then you would know these things.

Yeah guys keep ignoring actual game developers and think that a DVD is enough. One of the developers for COD 2 (or maybe GRAW) who mentioned stuff got left out and turned into Marketplace content because they couldn't fit it on the disc. It was on Major Nelson's podcast.

*kicks back and drinks some lemonade*
Sometimes it's good to be a PC gamer...

The step up to Blu-Ray cannot be compared to the step up from cartridges to CD-ROM, or CD-ROM to DVD-ROM.

In the SNES/Genesis era, games were limited by the hardware. However, the 360/PS3 is completely different - most games will be limited by their budget ($$$) before reaching the limits of DVD-ROM.

Also, it's common practise to arrange data on disk in the order it is read during gameplay, including storing duplicate copies of data. This is done to minimize seeks (which are very slow on optical drives). Even the XBox 360's XDK includes a disk layout utility for this purpose! So, just because a disk image is x-number of GB, that does not mean that there is that much unique data used in a game.

Let me get this straight. Someone from Sony is backing up a Sony technology? GASP! What breaking news!

Number 111 you may want to link to that podcast. Otherwise we will consider you a liar. COD2 if they had any deceny wouldn't have charged for that content then and people would ripping into the developer for it. But guess what that hasn't happened has it?

The wii vc will also have brand new games. Also the vast majority of people don't know how to find roms or if they do don't want to deal with the hassle. They don't want to deal with being infested with nasty viruses or set up the emulation to work halfway decently. They prefer to use a gamepad and most people don't want to deal with the hassle of setting that up.
Also people who knew often want to legally buy the product because guess what ROMs are copyright violations with major fines or jail time. Doesn't matter own a physical copy the copyright covers what formats the data is on and you don't have the copyright to the ROM. The publisher and other copyright holders do.

Cops are often lazy about going after virtual crime. Hell they don't go after phisher sites that steal credit card numbers or account data like they should do.

You also have the wiiconnect24 which will add game content when the console is off such as say multiplayer to a game that couldn't have do to publishing issues. Or new levels or weapons.

Looks like socrates has been playing online with a playstation 2 lately and hasn't even tried out live on 360... I mean... ps2's online "service" sucks. On the 360 you have: addictive achievements, decent servers, original artwork in your arcade games, arcade exclusives (aka geometry wars, outpost kaloki x, etc...), having leaderboards that track people from all over the world, mic option, webcam live vision option, marketplace... yeah, it is a very crappy service...

Speaking of the blu-ray stuff... I really don't care about it, I only buy consoles for the good games. I have a ps2 for the gta series, devil may cry. a gamecube for zelda and a 360 for halo.BUT... I hate to be in the need of selling one of my kidneys to buy a fu#$ing ps3 that could cost 200 less without the stupid blu ray drive, just to play metal gear solid 3... I hate sony's systems. stupid exclusives....

errr... I meant Metal Gear Solid 4.... crappy keyboard.... :P

As the popular story goes, NASA was having a hard time trying to invent a pen that can be used without the help of gravity in space, and it took NASA over 2 million dollors to solve this problem. On the other hand, the Russians, they simply used pencils...

Just save the money and put the game on multiple discs. --Problem solved--