Sony having trouble with Blu-ray laser production?
In a textbook case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, Sony is reportedly halting shipments of blue laser diodes to other manufacturers to ensure they will have enough available for the PlayStation 3 launch. Taiwan's DigiTimes.com is reporting that lower yield rates than expected mean that laser manufacturers, including Sony, can't meet the demand from the manufacturers of HD-DVD and Blu-ray drives and players. Despite recent analyst predictions that Sony will not be able to meet its own projected unit numbers for the PS3 launch, Sony still forcefully asserts that they will meet their commitments.
[Via HD Beat]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
apoc06 @ Aug 29th 2006 3:38PM
If they are taking such a drastic step such as diverting manufactured blue lasers, it seems more like a sign that they are at least trying to hold their commitment to the 2 million unit launch.
I don't know if they will make their quota, but it sounds like Sony has some serious dedication to the PS3 launch. [finally...]
JimmyHACK @ Aug 29th 2006 3:45PM
looks like they are focused on keeping there launch numbers, which in my opinion is a smart step for the ps3 having a good launch.
crono141 @ Aug 29th 2006 3:48PM
But at the cost of other brand blu-ray players?
Couldn't this cause some of the "supporters" of blu-ray to jump ship to HD-DVD if the can't get any diodes because Sony is hogging them all?
Wild Homes @ Aug 29th 2006 3:48PM
there was a similar bit of press concerning Sony diverting HDMI 1.3 ports away from manufacturers who would've begun to implement them into products this fall because Sony needs all the available supplies for the Playstations. it's beginning to look a little interesting...
Rask @ Aug 29th 2006 3:50PM
If I'm not mistaken, the HD-DVD drives use the same blue diode on their drives so this will impact Microsoft and their external drive as well(although much less than it will Sony).
Mountain Dew @ Aug 29th 2006 3:52PM
This doesn't bode well if you need service or replacement of the BD drive after launch.
csc @ Aug 29th 2006 3:52PM
maybe theyre going to use it as an exuse to tack on another $100, since theyre going to go to so much effort wannabe PS3 owners will need to show some monetary gratitude.........espeially since theyre the ones who arent bothered with the initial 600, theyre fair game to extort more money from.
redspear @ Aug 29th 2006 3:56PM
Rask the HD-DVD drive uses another diode...They are both blue though.
Frosty22 @ Aug 29th 2006 3:59PM
And I seriously doubt that HD-DVD manufacturers get their diodes from Sony :)
Eggman @ Aug 29th 2006 4:04PM
I don't doubt their ability to meet the quantity they promised, more worried about the quality of the final product. There are a lot of components inside the ps3 which have already been giving them problems manufacturing (blu ray, hdmi, and cell to name the most prominent) that theres a lot that can go wrong with the final product when u need ALL components to be working with each unit.
idiot @ Aug 29th 2006 4:10PM
Sony seriously, you're making it too easy for yourself to get dissed...
...yo
Fuzz @ Aug 29th 2006 4:11PM
Definatly not good news for Blu-Ray in general. Lets say there are 6 million Blue Ray lasers, 4 million go to PS3's, and being realistic, less than 50% of people who buy a PS3 become regualar users of Blue Ray on the first 6 months. So Sony ends up cutting short the number of actual players on the market, especially around the chritical Christmas season, and ends up handicapping Blu-Ray as a whole.
Todd @ Aug 29th 2006 4:14PM
What happens if Sony doesn't meet their projected unit numbers for the PS3 launch. Slap on the wrist? Shrug of the shoulders? Will anyone really care?
page @ Aug 29th 2006 4:17PM
"less than 50% of people who buy a PS3 become regualar users of Blue Ray on the first 6 months"
Not sure if you know this or not but NetFlix rents them, I suspect everyone with a PS3 will choose Blu-ray over DVD within the first day.
get over it @ Aug 29th 2006 4:20PM
funny how people immediately latch on to this as being another problem for the ps3
"...laser manufacturers, including Sony, can't meet the demand from the manufacturers of HD-DVD and Blu-ray drives and players..."
read that line a few times and try to comprehend it before you jump on the trash sony bandwagon.
it's not just sony it's "laser manufacturers" (plural - meaning more than one) that include sony as well as other laser manufacturers.
it's not just the ps3 it's the manufacturers of ALL HD-DVD and Blu-ray drives and players.
what's being reported here is an industry wide problem and the action sony is taking to keep it from impacting the ps3 launch.
B33 @ Aug 29th 2006 4:21PM
It's good news for the PS3... Kind of bad for Blu-Ray... Many will buy the PS3 over Blu-ray players since it is cheaper and you do get more for your money.
MosquitoControl @ Aug 29th 2006 4:25PM
"Not sure if you know this or not but NetFlix rents them, I suspect everyone with a PS3 will choose Blu-ray over DVD within the first day."
No chance.
The Blu Ray player will likely be stripped down, as every DVD player in a console is.
Most people will stick with their dedicated DVD player, with the better remote and more features.
Some people will switch to the PS3, sure, but how many people use the PS2, Xbox or 360 as their main DVD player? Extremely few. I doubt the PS3 will convince many to replace the DVD player for Blu Ray. It's just a pain in the ass. Most will wait for higher quality dedicated players.
In any case this shortage is nothing. PS3s will be slow to hit stores, anyway. Just like the 360 was. They'll be impossible to get for a while, and within a few months this shortage will be cleared up.
As mentioned, with Sony hogging the lasers this is actually worse for the HDDVD camp.
Justin @ Aug 29th 2006 4:32PM
"Not sure if you know this or not but NetFlix rents them, I suspect everyone with a PS3 will choose Blu-ray over DVD within the first day."
Yea, because everybody has a blu-ray burner as well.
32_Footsteps @ Aug 29th 2006 4:33PM
Hmm... maybe it's just me, but I can't help but be reminded of the calculator business.
Before you guys scoff, hear me out. Back when the calculator was first introduced, it was a huge deal - after all, not everyone can multiply anything but the most basic of numbers in their heads (go ahead, multiply 13 by 17 without using paper or a calculator. See how long it takes). Calculators were a big business, and it was one of the earliest calls for large numbers of chips.
As it happened, Texas Instruments was one of the biggest providers of those chips. They were also making their own calculators back then (as they do today). So they were supplying their competitors with the parts they needed to make competition in the marketplace.
And TI certainly wasn't afraid to abuse that market strength. They could keep the best of the chip runs for themselves. They could deliberately short customers/competitors on their orders. They could deliberately overcharge for the chips, thereby making the final product more expensive and thus less able to compete against TI's offerings.
If that's going a bit too far back, you also saw something vaguely similar in Nintendo's controls over cartridge pressing during the NES/SNES days.
My question is simply this - would anyone put it past Sony to do something like that now? It wouldn't surprise me to see Sony rigging "poor yields" and "reduced production" in order to justify a higher price or pinch competitors (in any of their businesses).
Supino @ Aug 29th 2006 4:38PM
I'll be very surprised, to put it mildly, if Sony keeps its leading position this gen. Honestly.
It seems like Sony has pulled its head back in its shell these days. I get a strong feeling they are struggeling with something.
At this point though, I'm all confused. I have no idea whats gonna happen. No one does.
Todd @ Aug 29th 2006 4:40PM
Lower yield rates than expected means problems in the manufacturing process. I can't speak for everyone else, but I definitely don't want to buy a cutting edge product until they are able to build one without scrambling to get enough materials. To me that suggests that they are slapping them together just to have as many as they promised they'd have. Kind of like the adage of not buying an automobile that was built on a Friday before a 3 day weekend. While it may look ok and pass QC, it doesn't mean that it was built with care.
GamerG @ Aug 29th 2006 4:43PM
Who would bet against another delay?? They dont even know what problems they will have manufacturing them yet!
jabbertrack @ Aug 29th 2006 4:43PM
or they could be gathering all the lasers and combining them into one super laser to combat the impending robot invasion
Todd @ Aug 29th 2006 4:48PM
Maybe Sony should just buy Nintendo at this point. >_
Jake @ Aug 29th 2006 4:52PM
"Some people will switch to the PS3, sure, but how many people use the PS2, Xbox or 360 as their main DVD player?"
I, like many others, used my PS2 as my main DVD player for more than a year while waiting for the prices on stand-alone players to go down. The PS3 will more than likely fill in that role for many people.
Jay @ Aug 29th 2006 4:55PM
Part of the problem for Sony in this circumstance is that if they are having low yield problems, you can expect a higher than normal defect rate on PS3's -- I dunno if any of you worked for retail during the original Playstation or PS2, but I did -- and the return rate dwarfed the 360's problems insanely. If Sony has that problem again, they will have serious issues ... the public isn't as forgiving as they were.
Dr.Swiss @ Aug 29th 2006 4:56PM
I don't understand your comment, Todd. :/
Can you explain this to me?
FaFaLo @ Aug 29th 2006 4:56PM
Hold on, as a PS2 first generation buyer I remember those mediocre lasers that forced you either to send it to get replaced for another faulty laser or to buy a new one at least half of the people I know that own a PS2 has had to buy a new one due to the famous "Disk Error" I would rather they spend their sweet but time but come out with some premium lasers to go to with the $600.00 piece of machinery
josh @ Aug 29th 2006 5:07PM
"Not sure if you know this or not but NetFlix rents them, I suspect everyone with a PS3 will choose Blu-ray over DVD within the first day."
1. Not many titles are on BR (or HDDVD) yet.
2. This isn't a boon for the Blu-Ray camp. They want people buying their discs - if a 100 people Netflix a $30 BR disc, that's not a big money maker. (Netflix in general is a part of why DVD profits are down - people like me that used to buy a few DVDs a week now just kick back and use Netflix)
The Origin of Species @ Aug 29th 2006 5:12PM
Blu-ray as a video storage device was doomed anyway. There just aren't enough people out there who have an HD T.V. and are willing to drop another thousand bucks for slightly better picture quality.
My prediction is that Blu-Ray and HD-dvd both will fail. These new formats too closely resemble old DVD technology and to many people, are not worth upgrading to. I ,personally, have dumped the disc format altogether and now watch Pay-per view movies on Shaw. It's a little inconvienient that I can't pause them, but it's better than paying $20 for a video I'll only watch once, and a lot better than renting a scratched up DVD for $7 (I swear, every DVD I've ever rented was scratched to shit)
So yeah, Pay-per view FTW.
idioteraser @ Aug 29th 2006 5:13PM
Anyone that is going to plunk down cash for a ps3 would be wise to get a three year warranty which will set you back quite a bit and avoid buying them from scalpers. I suspect quite a number of people who will pay over a grand for an ebayed PS3 will find themselves really pissed off when it breaks very shortly after.
With a warranty and taxes on the PS3 I could easily see people paying a grand at retail alone and that is without any games.
josh @ Aug 29th 2006 5:15PM
"I, like many others, used my PS2 as my main DVD player for more than a year while waiting for the prices on stand-alone players to go down."
You could buy a decent DVD player for less than a PS2 when it was launched... A half-decent one for less than half. I bought my trusty old Apex for $150, I believe, the summer before the PS2 came out. Since it was all-region, I would say it was a better player than the PS2.
I agree though, with BR and HD players priced as they are, I doubt people will buy a stand-alone and a console together at first.
"Maybe Sony should just buy Nintendo at this point. >_"
I know this was a joke - but I read in Wired today that Sony only has a $6 billion cash reserve... I doubt they could buy Nintendo, even if Nintendo wanted to sell.
Mr. Khan @ Aug 29th 2006 5:16PM
@ Todd
you got it backwards, Nintendo should buy Sony's Computer Entertainment division
Overall, I'd say this is a bad thing. Sony struggling for production at all means the product is in a bad way... I'd be interested to see where Sony is this time next year, with no PSP price drop and PS3 Problems, damn
jonat3 @ Aug 29th 2006 5:17PM
Even if this is potentially bad for Blu-Ray, this is a step Sony MUST undertake. Sony is banking their entire existence on the PS3. If the PS3 fails....well, let's just say heads will roll. Lots of them.
pandlcg @ Aug 29th 2006 5:23PM
@idioteraser,
A three year warranty on the 360 only cost $40 from Sam's Club. Why would the PS3's cost $400?
Pal @ Aug 29th 2006 5:38PM
"No chance.
The Blu Ray player will likely be stripped down, as every DVD player in a console is.
Most people will stick with their dedicated DVD player, with the better remote and more features."
Are you crazy? We're talking a $600 dollar investment here; Blu Ray is what's making PS3 an option in the console wars (without it, it's just an amazingly expensive Xbox 360). Knowing that 1/3 of the price of the PS3 went into Blu Ray, there's no chance that I would rather watch movies on my $100 DVD player.
Embrace the future, not your remote!
nootau @ Aug 29th 2006 5:39PM
#32 Josh
Where the heck did you get a new $150 DVD player in 1999-2000? They were around $250-$350 when i was looking at that time. I did finally find me a refurbished $99 dollar 5-disc carosel KLH from uBid (got lucky, back when uBid was honest). I still have it, it still works surprisingly.
ManTan @ Aug 29th 2006 5:42PM
I used to have a room with floor to ceiling shelves filled with DVD's, CD's and games. But then I saw the light, ripped everything and now have almost 3 terabytes hidden away and a room reclaimed. Some of what I did was legal, much of it probably illegal but frankly I don't care.
We're living in a world where we're making powerful processors that can fit into a watch or cellphone. I can carry several gb's of information on the end of a keychain or several hundred CDs worth of music in a device smaller then my wallet. I've got a flat panelled LCD TV hanging on my wall which saves me space. Why the heck do I then want to accumulate discs whether they're DVD's, Blu-Ray or whatever?
The future of all media should be downloadable and easily (legally) stored on harddrives. At least PC gaming is getting it right by allowing you to download games. Sorry, but these supposed next-gen consoles are too old school for me.
ktmracer @ Aug 29th 2006 5:42PM
I use a 360 as my main DVD player with a logitech harmony remote. I also use that same remote for running my ps2 on a different TV. No complaints on usability when using a decent remote (but using the controllers is a joke).
watch @ Aug 29th 2006 5:46PM
Shouldn't be a surprise. Look how many revisions PSX and PS2 got and many of them because of the CD and later DVD lasers.
darryl @ Aug 29th 2006 5:51PM
Old news, but hey, why not try to fester anti-Sony FUD when ya can.
Mike @ Aug 29th 2006 6:28PM
Really no1 is gona buy a HD DVD or a Blu Ray player. The lower class wont buy it cuz they probably just baught a dvd player 2 years ago. Even 2 steep for the middle class people. But people high in technology will probably get it. And it is competitve so no1 might choose neither. And also Xbox 360 RULES
Patrick @ Aug 29th 2006 6:43PM
"Sony still forcefully asserts that they will meet their commitments"
Didnt Sony also forcefully assert that they would make a spring launch right up until, well just days before spring?
Robotic House Plant @ Aug 29th 2006 6:49PM
Not sure if you know this or not but NetFlix rents them, I suspect everyone with a PS3 will choose Blu-ray over DVD within the first day.
Well, even if you purchase a PS3, you still need a HDTV to play Blu-Ray movies, no? I don't see DVD going away overnight.
Robotic House Plant @ Aug 29th 2006 6:51PM
I don't know what's wrong with me today. The first sentence is a re-quote of what was mentioned earlier.
epobirs @ Aug 29th 2006 6:53PM
#9
Yeah, that would never happen. Why, that would be like Dell and Apple buying their laptop batteries from a company that is also in the laptop business.
Actually, it wouldn't be at all unusual for an HD-DVD drive mechanism to source parts from Sony. Companies often do business with each other while competing on other levels. A major reason why NEC didn't take legal action against Nintendo's third party publisher contracts that prevented a major portion of the PC Engine's Japan library from becoming part of the US TurboGrafx's library is that Nintendo was a major customer for RAM from NEC Semiconductor. The company was afraid to do anything that would anger Nintendo and get their RAM elsewhere.
It took Sega, who didn't have any conflict of interests, to bring suit against Nintendo and eventually settle out of court. Soon after, the Genesis began receiving many third party titles that previously were Nintendo exclusives in the US.
#13
Todd, when Nintendo couldn't meet demand for the SNES during its first US Xmas season, this provided a big boost for the Sega Genesis. The Genesis had already been out for two years but was just starting to get critical titles like Sonic. If Nintendo had been able to ship more units in time for that holiday season it would kept the balance more in Nintendo favor by having a larger SNES installed base at direct cost to Sega's instaleld base.
People with money to spend on a new gme system who cannot find a PS3, even at a reasonable premium, are going to give new consideration to the compatition if they're readily available. That is why getting more high value games out for the Xmas season is more important than a price drop for the Xbox 360.
#17
There has yet to be any indication of any notable feature lacking in the PS3's Blu-ray playback compared to a dedicated deck. Keep in mind that the dedicated decks are sold for a profit while the price of the PS3 is heavily subsidized. Sony was already committed to selling the PS3 at a loss for the early portion of its career. Just SOP for them. Adding Blu-ray to the mix doesn't change things all that much and offers great reward if it succeeds in creating a dominant format.
Why would it be a pain in the ass? It seems probable that a majority of those who are prepared to pay $600 are also likely to own a HD display and have an interest in HD content playback on that display. For someone already invested in a good screen the combined cost for the PS3 functions is pretty reasonable. It's for those who just want a stronger game system that it's terribly steep.
Sony is making a bet on the interests of affluent consumers to buy up several million units before it becomes a concern for those who have save up for several months before they can make the investment.
Sony is not the sole source for these lasers. Nichia (the company that really started prctical blue-violet laser production), Sanyo, NEC, Toshiba, Matsushita (Panasonic), and Sharp are some of the better known competitors for Sony.
It isn't a lack of manufacturers so much as everybody has a hard time getting these produced cheap and reliably. It didn't matter much until recently when the first consumer products expected to sell in the millions came to market.
#19
The most important company TI screwed over on calculator logic circuits was Commodore Business Machines. When it came to home computer supremacy Jack Tramiel was determined to knock TI out of the ring and did just that.
#29
Actually, the success of Netflix is just fine for the DVD industry. Companies like them and Blockbuster have long had a profit sharing arrangement with home video content distibution companies. This is why the sniping in the business section of the paper quieted down years ago. Likewise for video game rentals. Nintendo fought tooth and nail against it but once the video companies got an arrangement they liked, Nintendo settled for the same. After that, the console companies got to like Blockbuster so much they began doing cross promotions and exclusive content deals.
The downturn in DVD profits likely is driven more by consumer copying of discs after DVD burners became standard on most new PCs and a very inexpensive upgrade. The problem wasn't the Netflix rental, it was the rental acting as the source for a dozen copies to the renter's circle of friends.
Need we mention the rise of broadband and the easy availability of torrents?
The finger can also be pointed at the industry itself for overpricing products in the highly lucrative TV season box set business. There are all to often priced too high and miss out on the chance to exploit irrational buying decisions. A consumer who'd only buy one of something for $60 can often be enticed to buy two for $90. Long term, it means more money for the company by giving up something in the short term. A worthy sacrifice if you have many seasons of a popular show to sell.
#30
You've got to be kidding. 'Slightly better picture?' You haven't seen a proper demo of HDTV then. PPV from a cable company isn't it because they're data rate is much lower than the disc format while using a dated codec. If Shaw's PPV is your basis for judging HDTV, you haven't seen proper HDTV yet.
You also fail to appreciate who the owners of HDTV are at this point. THese are people with money to spend for the luxuries they desire. Many bought an HD display just to make DVDs look better with little concern for the eventual availability of native content. Those folks in the McMansions have also bought millions of thos big HD screens so far. It those people keeping the business going as it strives to get the price down further into the mainstream.
For people with high disposable incomes, dropping $500 on an HD-DVD deck is trivial. So long as they can see the difference the money isn't a major issue. Beyond basic survival and security, what is the point of having more money if not for such niceties?
Many people in the early days of DVD did not see the value of upgrading. They eventually didn't have a choice as the majority of the market made the decision for them. As HD displays and playback devices come down in price the same thing will happen. It's solely a matter of when, not if.
#32
THe region where the PS2's dVD playback was a major selling point was Japan. Prices for DVD players ran much higher there and adoption was lagging the behind the US badly. The PS2 reversed that in less than a year. It was so influential on DVD sales there that many shop promoted their movie selection as PS2 movies rather than DVDs. (Which may have given Sony some misperceptions that lead to the UMD push.)
But don't be too quick to dismiss the value of DVD playback at the time of the US PS2 launch. While decks were available for under $300, the investment was difficult for many to justify. Likewise, the early $300 price for the PS2 made for some sticker shock. Being able to take home both a new state of the art game system (with massive existing PS1 library) and a DVD deck for $300 was a good selling point to consumers who might otherwise have waited for a price drop and been tempted by competing machines a year later.
DVD playback wasn't as major an asset here as in Japan but it did contribute to the platform's success.
Subnet6 @ Aug 29th 2006 7:51PM
@Get Over it:
"funny how people immediately latch on to this as being another problem for the ps3
"...laser manufacturers, including Sony, can't meet the demand from the manufacturers of HD-DVD and Blu-ray drives and players..."
read that line a few times and try to comprehend it before you jump on the trash sony bandwagon."
I think you are missing the point here. This is not simply a problem for the PS3 but a larger problem for Blu-Ray. Yes, manufacturers (plural) are having problems meeting demand of both HD-DVD and BLU-Ray player makers. However, while both lasers are blue, the diodes are NOT the same.
What does this mean you may ask? It means that when Sony starts absorbing all the Blu-Ray compatible diodes on the market, the manufacturers of dedicated Blu-Ray devices are going to have a doubly hard time getting components.
So yes, the HD-DVD diodes will be constrained due to similar production issues, however they will not have to contend with Sony pulling all of their particular diodes off the market.
Basically there will be massive competition between PS3 and standalone players for an already constrained product.
joe smith @ Aug 29th 2006 8:00PM
They have yet to start production (according to Kaz) so how hte heck will they have 2,000,000 machines in 2 1/2 months? There is no way they have manufacturing capacity to make nearly 200,000 systems a week -- even if they can get the components.
idioteraser @ Aug 29th 2006 8:00PM
Some warranties for 599 dollar devices are very expensive if you want the full coverage deal. Sometimes over a 100 bucks for electronics. Add in the HDMI cable other connections maybe pay for someone to come by and set it all up and test it out. Also it should be noted the PS3 is more expensive in other countries like close to 800 dollars expensive or more.
This blu-ray production issue could indicate a horrible quality control for the laser. So PS3s and blu-ray players could have high failure rates. Add in the other production issues and we could see far fewer PS3s this year then Sony wants out.
Not having the production up and running also creates it's own sources of troubles. Often a factory has to do a lot of work before it's ready to actually began producing a product that meets the quality control standard the company wants. You have to test the machines etc. Delays in getting the factory up and running means a whole lot of product issues.
Mr, Objectional @ Aug 29th 2006 8:43PM
"Sony forcefully asserts that they will meet their [launch number] commitments."
That sounds an awful lot like...
"Sony committed to a launch in "spring 2006.'' But it didn't say what territories it would launch in or define what it meant by spring."
Something to ponder.