Rumorang: Xbox 360 HDMI cable officially yanked
A newly discovered Gamestop and EB Games listing reveals an Xbox 360 HDMI cable, a rather ponderous product considering the fact that the console does not have the necessary port to accomodate such a miraculous transmissive device. Is it an expensive adapter that automagically goes from the bulky 360 AV connector to an HDMI output? Feel free to entertain such a possibility, so long as you remember that Microsoft wants nothing to do with it. After constantly pestering them for a comment, they informed us that the product was not one of theirs and that "Microsoft has not announced any additional support beyond component video for HD output. MS is watching the market closely and they will continue to evaluate any options in the face of consumer demand." Unless the face of consumer demand becomes crumpled in a furious frown regarding the lack of HDMI support, don't expect this retail listing (and they're usually so reliable!) to signify a change in Microsoft's strategy. Back in July, when handed the rumor of a new Xbox 360 equipped with an HDMI port, Microsoft promptly tossed it away and insisted that "you don't need HDMI for HD gaming." We fully expect the HDMI rumorang to return again sometime in the future -- catch it here when it does.
[Via Digg, Xbox Evolved. Thanks Jayman16]
See also: High-end PS3 shipping without HDMI cable
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Cage @ Sep 5th 2006 7:48PM
So let me get this straight, Gamestop and EB games put a listing on their site for a HDMI cable. The cable is shot down by Microsoft as "not being theirs" and this is news? Doesn't something need to be confirmed by the maker before it can be seen as scratched?
logikil @ Sep 5th 2006 7:49PM
I have no real reason to believe that the 360 isn't capable of using an HDMI cable at some point. It's obviously not going to be a direct HDMI interface, you will have to have an adaptor that fits the current A/V jack with an HDMI output.
As to whether it can output strict digital output, its probable. There isn't any data to speak in either direction. When anandtech first looked at the board, they didn't initially believe it was capable of digital output but they did indicate that it was possible that there were etchings on the board and a chip that would allow for this. I'm thinking by placing the etchings there but not adding an actual output port for it they saved some money. The problem is that if they do decide at some point to support the cable its naturally going to cost more because now you need to pay for the adaptor as well as the cable.
Anyway, for the moment i dont need it. However, if they make the HD-DVD able to use it then perhaps. Anyway, thats all from me.
GSI @ Sep 5th 2006 7:50PM
I don't get why they will not "supposidly" support HDMI. Is there a license fee they have to pay to a certain company in order to use it?
I've only used HDMI once (setting up my cousin's theater system) and we used an HDMI cable with that Samsung DVD player that upscales to 1080i. It was REALLY obvious at the difference b/c things were crisper on his Dell 42" Plasma.
If it did that for an upscaled DVD, I would love to see what it would do for the 360.
My HDMI port on my TV is getting lonely waiting for the PS3 to come out. :-(
sirpilf @ Sep 5th 2006 7:52PM
so wait... the $500 PS3 has no HDMI output so it potentially has the risk of not bieng able to play 1080p movies if HDCP is put into effect. Sony gets bashed.
Microsoft announced a HD-DVD add on ontop of the $300-400 ocnsole which will be around $200. Has no HDMI output... cant ever play 1080p no matter what even if you buy the premium console... nobody makes a single critique.
5ftassassin @ Sep 5th 2006 8:00PM
How about the 360 doesn't support HDCP? I heard something about the movie studios being able to limit the resolution of HD-DVD on an analog solution like component if they wanted too. Now if they impose these restrictions how will one get 1080P on their HD-DVD player for the 360?
Ludwig Kietzmann @ Sep 5th 2006 8:00PM
Cage, Microsoft's denial indicates that the Xbox 360 still doesn't officially have an HDMI solution. This 3rd-party cable (IF it even releases) will likely just be an adapter and not indicative of the 360 being capable of true HDMI output.
Cage @ Sep 5th 2006 8:00PM
"Microsoft announced a HD-DVD add on ontop of the $300-400 ocnsole which will be around $200. Has no HDMI output... cant ever play 1080p no matter what even if you buy the premium console... nobody makes a single critique."
Sony = $600 for fine dining
360 = $400 (Denny's?)
Robotic House Plant @ Sep 5th 2006 8:06PM
I don't think anyone can release an accessory for the 360 without Microsoft's approval... am I wrong?
GSI @ Sep 5th 2006 8:12PM
Yea...I think all accessories for the 360 have to be "certified" by MS otherwise they won't work. I remember reading something a while back on (I think) IGN about this.
Seer S @ Sep 5th 2006 8:14PM
Question: Am I going crazy, or was there a v1 of this post with messed up font?
jayman16 @ Sep 5th 2006 8:20PM
Ars Technica said that the ATI chip in the 360 is in fact capable of HDMI output. I believe the 360 is capable of handling the HDMI but as MS said they won't make it unless their is a demand for it. And there won't be unless they enforce Image Constraint Token.
Jeff @ Sep 5th 2006 8:33PM
"Microsoft announced a HD-DVD add on ontop of the $300-400 ocnsole which will be around $200. Has no HDMI output... cant ever play 1080p no matter what even if you buy the premium console... nobody makes a single critique."
Well, the other thing is the $600 PS3 system supports standard, regular old HDMI out of the box as long as you go out and buy a $5 cable. But no cable is included, so Sony gets bashed.
MS, on the other hand, doesn't even make an HDMI cable *available* for the 360, and even if they did, they'd be locking you into an MS-licensed product. Where are the three pages of comments bashing MS in response, like there were for the PS3 story?
I realize the PS3 costs more, but how is this not a double standard? One company is making HDMI available and the other is not. One company is supporting a standard and the other is not. One company is accepting generic products working with their system and the other is not.
It seems to me that it's MS that's shafting their customers here, not Sony. The HDMI issue is a huge plus in Sony's favor, not the other way around.
Why is MS, a computer company, stuck in an analog game console world?
Optimus Prime @ Sep 5th 2006 8:40PM
This whole "MS is holding back on HDMI is non-sense"
1 - HDMI is purely optional; if 360 has an HDMI port from the get go then it costs MS nothing to sell the HDMI cable. Its easy money to sell over-priced, 360 branded HDMI cables. What are they going to say:
"oh sorry guys, we forgot to mention that your 360 can output HDMI all this time you've owned it...but, we felt there was no demand for it so we held back.."
HMDI output is marketable and it would be bad business not to advertise its availability and support it.
2 - HDMI without being HDCP compliant is pointless since it doesnt resolve the ICT issue with HD-DVD playback (not only 1080p but the next gen audio like TrueHD, etc enabled under HDMI1.3). This is one of the reasons to go HDMI since component will give a comparable picture, provided that your HDTV deinterlaces properly (not all TVs are equal in this respect). The ATI chipset is not HDCP compliant.
3 - MS had consistently come out and said that there aint no HDMI coming anytime soon. How is that confusing to anyone? Just get over it.
Cage @ Sep 5th 2006 8:40PM
"The HDMI issue is a huge plus in Sony's favor, not the other way around."
So the less than 5 percent of people can say..."This is true 1080p!". Nah...I'm good. I'll save my money and spend it on more games and better online support.
Seer S @ Sep 5th 2006 8:54PM
""The HDMI issue is a huge plus in Sony's favor, not the other way around."
So the less than 5 percent of people can say..."This is true 1080p!". Nah...I'm good. I'll save my money and spend it on more games and better online support."
That's not the issue. The issue at hand is the double standard held by what seem to be 95% of commentators here about how much Sony is shafting them by not including a $10 cable. As you said, yes this really only affects 5% of people. Then why are there so many people bitching about Sony's OFFERING of HDMI, instead of MSFT's complete LACK of it??? It's a complete double standard that the Giant Internet-Echo-Chamber has produced regarding Sony.
Lekko @ Sep 5th 2006 9:34PM
This is why I do like Sony over MS. They make products that are capable of a lot more out of the box, even if you don't have the equipment to handle it.
They are basically building a system designed for top-top of the line home systems, but will run on everything below it. Most consumers take that the wrong way, assuming they need the top end equipment to just use the device at all.
Example: the PS2 digital optical audio cable. Back in 1999, I thought "wow... that's ultra-tech! I'm never going to be able to use that..." Now Today, I have a surround sound system that accepts a digital optical connection. My PS2 is now using that.
This is how I see HDMI right now. It's high tech, it's cool... but right now I don't need it because I don't have the TV for it. However, the next TV I do buy WILL be HD, and WILL have HDMI.
Sony = ahead of the curve, even if they don't have the cable for it included. (they didn't for digital optical either.)
MS = Will play catchup 5 years from now. (and at a higher price because it will be proprietary.)
dapperdan @ Sep 5th 2006 10:01PM
this is slightly off topic, but still has to do with hd output...does ANYONE know if the vga cable will ever support 1680x1050 resolution? i absolutely love playing it on my pc monitor compared to my hdtv.
Bill @ Sep 5th 2006 10:04PM
LOL, maybe you can buy this for your PS3. After all, it's the only way you'll get HDMI with your PS3 LOL.
You can go buy the Xbox360 cable. PS3 Hi-Def ftw! Thank goodness Sony has such a grear hi-def ready console LOL. ($100 mandatory cable not included)
Cage @ Sep 5th 2006 10:08PM
"Sony = ahead of the curve, even if they don't have the cable for it included. (they didn't for digital optical either.)
MS = Will play catchup 5 years from now. (and at a higher price because it will be proprietary.)"
Is this system supposed to last 2 generations of systems? Am I missing something? Sony is touting the PS3 as something revolutionary and I just dont see it for an extra $200. They are adding extras and making consumers pay the price up front. How is that a bonus?
The 360 still has a lot of room for the future (upgradable harddrive, great online support, etc).
jer @ Sep 5th 2006 10:15PM
hey losers, hdmi is gay. yes it is digital but lets face it i have 5 hdtvs and 2 of them have hdmi ports and one of them are 1080p... and all the others are all 1080i. so really who care call me crazy but i like componite cables and i also have a hddvd player and its only doing 1080i and looks 2x's better than any blu-ray player so really do you have to have a hdmi cable? for all of this...(no) and remamber the xbox 360 at e3 this last year had all the better looking games not ps3... so to sum it all up 98% of all who read this are poor and can't afford a 1080p tv and the other well thank you for supporting hdtv....and to the 98% go back to your shanties and die....
Seer S @ Sep 5th 2006 10:17PM
"18. LOL, maybe you can buy this for your PS3. After all, it's the only way you'll get HDMI with your PS3 LOL.
You can go buy the Xbox360 cable. PS3 Hi-Def ftw! Thank goodness Sony has such a grear hi-def ready console LOL. ($100 mandatory cable not included)"
And...that's what I was just talking about. >
GSI @ Sep 5th 2006 10:22PM
-->"($100 mandatory cable not included)"
Guess someone is too dense to figure out that you get the cable at a 10th of that price.
GSI @ Sep 5th 2006 10:25PM
@ jer:
...and apparently you have never heard of a thing called a "capital letter."
The ZeroCorpse @ Sep 5th 2006 10:39PM
It's JUST a connector cable. It's no better than VGA/RGB, DVI, or component. It's no clearer, no cheaper, no easier to use. GET. OVER. IT.
The only difference with the damned HDMI cable is that you get HDCP compliance if they ever require it. Big whoop. Most of us early adopters don't even have HDCP compliant HDTVs, so it doesn't make a difference to us, and the studios will be in deep tish if they screw the majority of the HDTV market with HDCP any time soon.
Get over it. Really. It's. Just. A. Cable.
GSI @ Sep 5th 2006 10:57PM
Ummm...sorry but there IS a difference between HDMI and component. It's not a huge jump but it is noticeable since it is an uncompressed signal.
If it was "just a cable" that offered "no clearer" picture then the various companies funding it wouldn't have forked over a penny for it.
Seer S @ Sep 5th 2006 11:08PM
"25. Ummm...sorry but there IS a difference between HDMI and component. It's not a huge jump but it is noticeable since it is an uncompressed signal.
If it was "just a cable" that offered "no clearer" picture then the various companies funding it wouldn't have forked over a penny for it.
-GSI"
Yes they would have, because HDMI requires HDCP. They would do ANYTHING to push their twisted restrictions on us.
Charles Plater @ Sep 6th 2006 12:23AM
Total BS. According to Lik Sang, there is a Microsoft branded HDMI cable:
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=319&products_id=8540
Thomas @ Sep 6th 2006 12:38AM
To help some people out.. I think someone did mention this but HDMI passes the digital processing to the TV.. Therefor quality on HDMI is dependent on the quality of the TV..
I used to swear by YPbPr(and still do) but when I had a chance to hook-up our DVR box on a 60" Dell Plasma, I for once seen the difference.. (only time too)
I dont have HDMI on my set, and thats fine by me..
And for the record 'The ZeroCorpse' - there is a difference in RGB/YPbPr and DVI/HDMI and not just the HDCP.. RGB/YPbPr are analog(equip sending out signal does the dirty-work) where-as DVI/HDMI is digital(as I said above, the TV does the dirty work)
And just to comment on MS and this 360 HDMI cable, I agree with many, why isnt MS taking the Heat for not putting HDMI on their HD-DVD add-on.. When HDCP does(cuz it will, Hollywood wont let it go) People will be pissed that their HD-DVD add-on is now worthless.. Thats why Im only gunna use my 360 for games.. Gunna go with Blu-Ray and PS3 this spring for my HD Movie Love...
Thats my 2c..
epobirs @ Sep 6th 2006 12:46AM
Some people have very short memories. There have been discussions about the Xbox 360 and HDMI since before the launch last year. HDMI wasn't as prominent an issue back then but among those who knew what was happening in the format wars, it was an item of interest.
MS made it clear very early on that they wished to remain uninvolved in the copy protection issues for HD content so far as the game business goes. They had a product to sell for DRM but that is a different group within MS. The HD-DVD add-on only became feasible when the studios indicated in meetings that they weren't likely to issue any discs using HDCP any time soon because, well, it doesn't work very often. There are a LOT of HDMI input capable displays out there which will not work correctly with HDCP and ICT. The manufacturers knew this was likely because no real-world reference platform existed for testing. All they could do is cross their fingers and hope the stuff they used worked as intended.
The idea with the HD-DVD add-on is that it will get a certain number of years of value before HDCP becomes a more than hypothetical concern. By that point, HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray decks will have come down far enough in price to make it a moot point. In much the same way that progressive scan output DVD players became so incredibly inexpensive that it stopped being an issue if the DVD playback in consoles was comparable in features.
By the time HD-DVD becomes that cheap, if it is still a market force, a backward compatible followup to the Xbox 360 could be due for release. Since they own the chipset it would more reasonable for that machine to be an outgrowth of the current one and use an HD-DVD drive as standard. (A license token to activate HD-DVD movie playback may be needed, similar to the original Xbox's DVD playback. No reason to make consumers who don't want to play movies pay for the license.)
Microsoft was faced with a simple set of questions and answers regarding HDMI.
Would built-in HDMI (either for a proprietary cable or a full HDMI port on the machine) add significant cost to the Xbox 360. YES.
Would there be any real assurance a machine shipping in late 2005 could reliably meet the ink-still-wet HDCP specification? NO.
Was 1080p output considered a critical feature for the machine, especially when it was already known that games would be optimized for 720p? NO.
While Micrsooft has some interest in the success of HD-DVD, were they willing to add cost and/or delay the launch of the 360 to better support HD-DVD. Not only NO but hell NO!
Microsoft and Sony have very different market positions and thus very different motivations for how they approach the video game business. Neither company is right or wrong, just different.
Microsoft is going to do things that leverage their strength in the PC business and the software development field. Thus support for interaction with Windows Media Center systems and XNA for fledgling developers.
Sony's big interests beyond video games are in consumer electronics and home video sales. Not just sales of Sony-owned content but the way content is sold in general. Thus Sony has an immense interest in the format for which they have been the primary driver to become dominant. Without that motivation there would be little justification for putting Blu-ray in the PS3, both for the purpose of game distribution and video content sales. Seen solely from a game console perspective the negatives greatly outweigh the positives. The benefits of the added storage are non-existent for most games but the associated costs are unavoidable. If it were a company who didn't have a huge stake in the success of Blu-ray, such as Nintendo, it would be insane for them to pursue such features. For Sony, however, it is exactly the right thing to do. It isn't a guaranteed win thanks to the costs and complications, but it is a very good strategy if you're Sony. If Toshiba were in the game console business today it would be equally sensible for them to include HD-DVD as standard. But no other company could as easily justify the decision.
Sony and Toshiba are far from alone in promoting the two formats but each is the primary stakeholder for their entry.
epobirs @ Sep 6th 2006 12:54AM
#27
Ah, yes. Lik-Sang has never posted a product listing based on rumors. I note that their listing has no image of the product, no price, and no availability. Don't hold your breath waiting for Lik-Sang to deliver that item.
And for the umpteenth time, putting an HDMI output on the add-on drive for the Xbox 360 is not remotely feasible. The entire reason this add-on will be so much less costly than a HD-DVD deck is that the 360 will do all of the heavy lifting for the decompression and decrypting. Sending that data back over the USB 2.0 connection would be an extreme no-no so far as minimal copy protection requirements go before HDCP enters the picture. It would also be far too much data for the bus to handle reliably.
Wild Homes @ Sep 6th 2006 1:07AM
here are a few differences between Microsoft not supporting HDMI out of the 360 box and Sony touting 1080p HDMI support as a key feature of the machine and then screwing consumers out of the cable.
when Microsoft was designing the 360, rules for HDCP compliance had not been agreed upon. it's estimated that this same delay in HDMI standards is what caused the PS3 to miss its original (although always doubtful) spring 2006 japanese launch target. Sony has the advantage in this particular battle just by the sake of coming around a year later, when HDMI-HDCP compliance is fully finalised...
but that brings us to point two. with regard to Microsoft's HD-DVD drive plans, you can't really demonise the lack of an HDMI port for the same reason we can't demonise Sony's very ambitious online plan for the PS3-- because we haven't seen anything substantive about either one. it's rumored that the HD-DVD add-on will output only through the 360's existing interface, but until there is a hands-on demonstration no one can say for certain. however, as the HD-DVD drive has been confirmed by Microsoft to only be for movies and not games, the whole HDMI issue is rather less important to the 360 and the HD-DVD pack-in than it is for the $600 SKU PS3 because of point three...
which is: as the major parties concerned have agreed in principle to delay Image Constraint Token technology until the end of this console generation (2012 being the consensus date), HDCP compliance is really kind of pointless at this juncture. in the future anything is possible, but at present HDCP is a non-starter. which leads into our last point...
we'll let projectorcentral.com take it away... "feeding 1080i or 1080p into your projector or HDTV will give you the exact same picture. Why? Both disc formats encode film material in progressive scan 1080p at 24 frames per second. It does not matter whether you output this data in 1080i or 1080p since all 1080 lines of information on the disc are fed into your video display either way. The only difference is the order in which they are transmitted. If they are fed in progressive order (1080p), the video display will process them in that order. If they are fed in interlaced format (1080i), the video display simply reassembles them into their original progressive scan order. Either way all 1080 lines per frame that are on the disc make it into the projector or TV. The fact is, if you happen to have the Samsung Blu-ray player and a video display that takes both 1080i and 1080p, you can switch the player back and forth between 1080i and 1080p output and see absolutely no difference in the picture." essentially this means that for the HD-DVD add-on, 1080p support is a non-issue, since the player will only be used for movies, which are filmed 24fps/p, and will be displayed identically at either resolution. however, for content that is captured/ rendered at other speeds, such as PS3 games, the 1080p difference _will_ be a noticeable factor.
to conclude this sad ramble: the 360 predates HDCP standards while the PS3 does not, HDCP doesn't matter anyway for the time being, we really can't comment on the final HD-DVD add-on hardware until we see it in action or we see the complete specs, and that when used for its implicit, stated purpose (24fps/p film content), the HD-DVD add-on using HDMI would be a luxury (it _does_ have less noise than component) and not an advertised or required factor.
indysurfn @ Sep 6th 2006 1:26AM
Whats with this $5 or $10 dollar cable business? Don't you people know these cheap (not shield, or cheaply shielded) cables are worse than the $54 dollar cheapy at best buy? Especially in a game setup! They will cause your signal to downgrade autimatically! Don't buy those things! You will be disappointed when you think your PS3 is crap, when it is realy the cable! Even worse it may make you go buy a stand alone, and find out the hard way it was the cable all along! Many people did this when DVD first started becoming big.
Computer Gamer @ Sep 6th 2006 2:49AM
I would like a HDMI lead for my 360 (I use one for my sony upscaling player > Tosh HDTV) if for no more reason than to get rid of the interference I seem to get while using the component lead. (on dark screens only).
GSI @ Sep 6th 2006 2:50AM
Umm...I've been buying 3rd party and eBay cables for years not without a problem. I've not only used them for myself but also for others as well (friends, family, etc.) and there have never been any problems.
jer @ Sep 6th 2006 2:51AM
People need to calm down and face the fact, and lets look at this from a computer stand point, now be honest. just think for a secound...... the ps3 has the power or 2 nvidia 6800 ultras, now i had 2 6800 ultras and lets say they sucked. for any one to think that 2 6800 ultras will power or play any game at 1900x1080p resolotion is crazy and stupid not even two of my nvidia 7900 gt sli'ed will play all games at 1080p graphics... and trust me my pc is incredible powerfull. so to belive the ps3 will play anything in 1080p is the most retarted thing ive ever heard. or if it can play at that resoulition then the game will have no real shaders or decent looking textures. case in point (grand trismo HD) it looks awful and all the textures look flat and gay so the whole Hdmi and NON Hdmi thing is a real waist of time to argue about.. when m$ said that componite cable are the best way to play hd games (they ment 720P) then truley componite cablesare the best way to go. Ps. non of you basterds can afford a tv with 1080p any way (well unless your me of course...) i have two... and also for anyone saying or believing Hdmi helps upconvert your dvd player is also gay and retarted its the player not the cable. all the cable does is give a higher bandwith.... morons and just one more thing really quick any one who says you need Hdmi for blu-ray (well look around the internet and read the reviews dvd looks almost as good with componite cables as Hdmi with blu-ray, m$ rules and so does hddvd......pss. the ps2 can produce (TOY STORY LIKE GRAPHICS) thats the best quote of the decade, oh wait one more (WHEN YOU GET ON THE SONY ONLINE PS2 NETWORK ITS JUST LIKE WHAT YOU SEE OR GET IN THE MATRIX...) SONY 2000, there full of lies and for some reason you all seem to keep trusting them????hey a few more thigs, who likes OPEN GL games any ways? and how many are out there??? i think 3 or 4 and yes they all sucked.. and dont get me started on linux, yes the ps3 operating system...., i bet you all used a windows machine to write or read these posts... get a brain and realize sony hates you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or else why would they give you linux and OPEN GL games??????
m3mnoch @ Sep 6th 2006 12:02PM
so. here's a quick hdmi question. what happens when you have digital cable already hooked up and you try to chain something like a ps3 through your reciever too?
answer? you get a text message on your tv that says something to the effect of "sorry, you're not allowed to hook up your poo like that."
yeah. hdmi/hdcp/ict blows. don't get it. don't buy it. don't endorse it. your media won't be your media anymore.
and, epobirs. a lot of what you say is factually correct. however, when you say something silly like this: "For Sony, however, it is exactly the right thing to do." i have to question your ability to convert facts to practice.
m3mnoch.
ktmracer @ Sep 6th 2006 3:55PM
The only reason Microsoft has for releasing an HDMI cable is so that they don't appear to be a second rate console next to the PS3. The PS2 didn't have anything on the original xbox (if you don't count better games, a decent controller, realistic size, and better looks). But on the spec sheet the xbox beats PS2 hands down. Real life is a different story. The PS3 beats the 360 on the spec sheet, but if bluray, cell, and HDMI aren't quite what they're talked up to be, we may just be spending $600 dollars on an xbox that doesn't play Halo.