Guerilla (marketers) in our midst

That's why thinking for yourself is always the best bet.

Or am I just saying that to earn your trust?

Hey guys,
I just got the new stranglehold demo! Its really really awesome. I think you should all go out and pre-order it right now!
kthx
bye

i know, man, guerrila marketers are so lame...

btw, i'll be on microsoft's xbox live if anyone's up for a game of Halo, or maybe a few games on microsoft's xbox live arcade! email me if you're up, bro!

Yeah, I know. Guerilla marketing is a big problem. Take Mega Man ZX for instance. It's an awesome game, and Capcom has really outdone themselves. You should buy Mega Man ZX immediately. But even knowing how awesome Mega Man ZX from Capcom is. For Nintendo DS. At $29.99. A game which everyone should buy. Even knowing that, if I saw someone doing that kind of Guerilla Marketing for the game, I might slightly be turned off.

I would still buy Capcom's Mega Man ZX which is available for order on Amazon.com, with free shipping, but I would be slightly dissapointed in the excellent company which is Capcom of America.

I guess what I'm saying is you should run, not walk, to your local EB Games right now and purchase Mega Man ZX.

Penny Arcade talked about this a year ago when two seperate people came to them informing of what they did. It was pretty messed up.The comic is here: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/01/25 and the news post that goes with it is pretty awesome too.

It does prove again that you cant trust anyone in forums... not even yourself.

Well if the person's comment is suggesting a cool download of some sort, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I mean compared to the wealth of shit comments joystiq gets, one that pertains to a video game related topic is always welcome in my eyes. Sure you don't want people taking advantage of the system and posting about every new game release their company offers, but when you weigh that against crap comments like "First Post!!! this news is so old" or "my balls just dropped and I hate joystiq", they are hardly noticeable. Just my opinion though.

That's one of the reasons my internet shortcut reads - "Portal to Hell" rather than just "Firefox" or "Internet"

if the guerilla marketing is "good" then you won't see it at all.

Why is everyone so freaking down on advertising? How else are gonna hear about the good shit otherwise? Ya, there's gonna be some bad stuff mixed in there, but even the best guerilla marketers can't FORCE you to buy something; they can only get it into your head that something is worth checking out. Ultimately you make the decision. Anyone who thinks they are evil because they force people to do things they don't want to do is a fricking lemming in poor disguise.

Twunts act as if this is a new thing...

XBOX AND PS3 ARE GETTING THE SHENMUE TRILOGY, THE THIRD EPISODE IS GOING TO A MINDBLOWING EXPERIANCE. DONT BELIEVE ME..........WAIT!

Trust no one.

Guerillas go for the gullible.

Today's post was brought to you by the letter "G".

Hey guys! I know this is a post is about guerillas, but I think this is the perfect time to tell you about this super awesome game console I played yesterday: Play Station 3! You gotta check it out ^_^ k thx bye!

Yeah, well I hate guerilla marketing. That's why I don't care if you go to www.addletters.com or not.



;)

If I have to read one more contrived "guerilla" post I'm seriously going to kill someone.
The first thing I thought when I read this article was "Somebody's going to pretend to be a guerilla marketer and it's not going to be funny". Now something like 5 people have written the same post. Please stop. You're beating it to death.

I've bought allot of games based on what several people have had to say about them on Joystiq. I need to know what’s crap and what’s good and I don't care how the people who sell these games get the word out about them as long as they aren't telling tall tales. I don't want to blow $60 bucks on 360 games only to find out how crappy they are. That being said I'm not going to go off of one person’s advice alone, I usually look at what people have to complain about before I read the positives any how.

Okay so is everybody done with the fake guerilla marketing comments? You are? Okay thanks.

So what's the big deal with guerilla marketing? The only difference between a marketer and a rabid fanboy is that one is getting paid money to advertise, while the other does it for free. Either way, the posted message is still the same, and it is up to US as readers to believe it or not.

At least the marketers have some communication skills, can keep their posts relatively short, and occasionally follow up on a conversation. I think I'd rather be duped by a shill than wade through page-long fanboy blather any day of the week.

here's what I don't get, how do we tell the difference between a guerrilla marketer and say a fanboy who says obviously stupid stuff to give a false impression, for example people on here who keep saying HD is not neccesary, or that 1080p makes no difference, or that an analog 720p is just as good as a digital 1080p signal? Thats exactly what a guerrila marketer would say, so how do we know whos a guerilla marketer and whos just an xbot?

My 1st thought: Ahhh, so that explains Darryl.

My 2nd thought: No, Sony PR would want to hire somebody who can make logical coherent arguments for them.

My 3rd thought: Well, this is Sony PR I'm talking about....

Speaking of "guerilla" marketing, you have to love the Battlestar Galactica ads on this place, as they are designed as a "personal note" about the series.

"Guerilla" marketing is nothing new, and with the interweb, it has become a much more important advertising force. All forms of entertainment has marketing that is designed to be subversive, let it be a "news story" on your local news station, or a "editorial" in your newspaper or magazines. As the previous poster said, it is up to "us", the consumer, to ultimately decide what we purchase. Advertisers are there to get the idea of purchasing or acting in your head, and it up to you to take it to the next level.

The worrisome thing about guerilla marketers is that they might deliberately avoid talking about the negative points of a game. I'll give you an example of a favorite of mine- Chaos Legion. It came out some near three years ago and isn't even sold anymore so I think I'll be seen as legit :p

CL is, in my opinion, a very good game. It's a great beat-em'-up and has blah blah blah good features (I'll happily describe 'em if anybody wants me to).

The danger is that I might ignore several negative traits. Repetitive enemy types. I could spin that as calling the monsters "evolving" even though it's just "enemy crab" and "slightly larger enemey crab" (massive damage!) I could ignore the fact that the graphics are bland and colorless and instead describe the very smooth frame rate. And so on.

That's the risk. Or at least that's how I feel.

azn - Do you think you are going to convert a "xbot"? Your comments are either preaching to the choir or making you look like a complete buffon depending on the reader. Just worry about what good games are coming out regardless of platform rather than splitting hairs over analog 720p vs digital 1080p.

Frankly, does it matter? I only care if you speak the truth. If you're a marketter for something that's good, cheers to you for doing something good, and getting paid for it. If you're marketting for something that's bad, I'm going to hate you more for lying than anything else.

"if the guerilla marketing is "good" then you won't see it at all.

Why is everyone so freaking down on advertising? How else are gonna hear about the good shit otherwise?"

I think it has something to do with the fact that people don't like being lied to.

It's one thing if you know you're watching an advertisement. You expect a salesman to exaggerate (or at least, emphasize) the positives and gloss over or spin the negative qualities of their product. You apply a different set of mental filters to judge what's being said than you would if a friend or acquaintance were telling you about a game.

So it's different when someone cultivates a false identity with no disclosure of that fact whatsoever, and attempts to gain your trust in a discussion forum to subtly advertise a product.

"How else are people going to learn about a product?" Same way we always have ... legitimate advertising, reviews, word of mouth from people expressing their honest opinions, not something they are being secretly paid to hype.

I'm not saying that everybody should believe everything they read in a web forum, but I can't see how anybody could argue that these sorts of insidious, deceptive promotional tactics are a good thing for the consumer, or for the forums/web sites that are being exploited.

No offence to anyone here but I pay as much heed to anything said in on-line communities as I would to the ravings of a tramp in the street.

If you haven't learnt by now that you & random stranger X don't like the exactly the same things and that you can't take anything they froth about seriously, you pretty much deserve to be duped.

The worse thing about so-called 'online guerilla marketers' is that they actually believe they're successful.

So let me get this straight...some guy has a job with a publisher that requires him to disseminate information on their games through online forums and message boards? How insidious! Is there no low to which these marketing people will not stoop?

Actually, I say that everyone has a job to do, whether they like it or not. So this schlub's job makes him act like 10 year old girl; that's his choice and he gets paid for it. He isn't doing anything immoral or illegal. I'd go so far as to say that it's really just irrelevant. This guy shouldn't feel at all guilty.

And as for all of these sanctimonious gamers who get enraged that someone they think they know on some online forum turns out to be a corporate shill- get over it. You know why I say that? Because it's their fault that these people exist in the first place. It's because many gamers spend more time on message boards arguing about inconsequential BS than reading magazines, going to regular websites, etc that are the normal sources for all nefarious marketing. So long as all other marketing tools go unnoticed, these shills wil continue.

I guess that explains all the buzz I've been hearing about Super Monkey Ball.

"how do we tell the difference between a guerrilla marketer and say a fanboy"
You're more likely to find a radical comment from a fanboy than from a PR rep. A guerilla marketer if he wants to keep his cover, has to kind of slip it in, while a fanboy will spell out in capital letters how awesome their system/game is. I'm not even saying that fanboys do it intentionally, but they end up promoting a product more than a professional. aZn_1080p, you yourself have views that tend to favor the PS3. While you are criticizing other people's fanboy comments, you have your own slanted comments. I mean no offense by this we all have our system preference, but you can't criticize others when we are all guilty of giving a company free PR work.

Chats, message boards, etc.....just remember that everyone but you on them is an idiot and not to be trusted. Reading this stuff is entertainment, not mob rule capitalism. Laugh riot on almost any thread, but have I had just a Joystiq conversation sell me anything that I wouldn't already have bought immediately (cool t-shirts)? No. Rule: If one or two or ten people posting are saying that product X is good and buy it right away, it means go to Gamespot, not Gamestop.

Guerrilla marketing is not about infiltration - it's about little guys being able to have the same impact that big guys do, if they spend their marketing dollars wisely. At least, that's what Levinson's work(s) that coined the phrase was about. This is more like "Decepticonning" than true guerrilla marketing.

So this is the internet. Every medium has its faults - this one's happens to be that you can't know whether the hot elf chick you're cybering is really a pimply-faced teenage wasteland boy. I rarely - if ever - read the comments on Joystiq (which would beg the question: why am I posting? hmm...), and have largely stopped visiting message boards. Besides, games are mostly crappy nowadays anyway - and the crap is pretty easy to spot (most of it's coming from EA anyways).

#23: Frick yes. They even have the same *formatting* as a real post. The notable difference being an absence of the links at the bottom, and the border around the "post".

#27: I don't know if you noticed, but people like to talk about stuff on the Internet. They're avoiding 'traditional marketing' because they *don't like it*. Ads are *annoying*. Why do you think TiVo is selling like hotcakes covered in crack?

Also: aren't *you* commenting on a post in a blog about video games?

Although it's a bit dated, there's an episode of Frontline called "Merchants of Cool" that examines just how deceitful (and successful) guerilla marketers and the like are. In fact, they're all so ubiquitous that they manage to dictate entire cultural landscapes by how they inform and bait consumers. There's something of a guided tour that accompanies the documentary here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/tour/tour2.html


"there's no Mook in nature, 'He' s a creation of marketers, designed to capitalize on the testosterone-driven madness of adolescence. He grabs them below the belt and then reaches for their wallets.'"

When I witness some of the fanaticism apparent on most sites (gaming or otherwise), I can't help but think that it's all a calculated marketting scheme aimed at the consumer's most vulnerable weak point: opinion.

I actually think this is a good thing, and I hope it becomes more prevalent, hopefully to the point where there will be 50 marketers to every 2-3 real people. I can't wait to see different groups of guerilla marketers on the same forum vying for the attention/trust of the few poor souls who read their posts...

For real though, there are a lot of people out there who do not have very good standards on which to base the credibility of information, who will most likely be swayed by FunGuy2000, the 24 year old marine from Iowa who just really loves the new James Bond Game. For them I shed a tear.

I can deal with seeing ads myself; I just can't stand trying to hide the fact that you're doing an ad. Be up front with me that you're advertising, and I'll give you the time of day.

I've suspected at least a few posters here of trying this, but I have no proof. Though it's awfully suspicious that everyone I've seen trying it has had 0 stars and disappears soon afterwards.

Also, if anything, I'd imagine darryl is a Microsoft plant. He gets to disseminate anti-Nintendo propaganda, and he makes Sony look bad with his rantings. That just leaves Microsoft as the beneficiary. Of course, I don't think Microsoft would go for that, simply because I don't see it as being all that effective.

I think one good way to tell the difference is if the person gives personal experiences of his time playing.
How some parts struck him (and these are usually less obvious parts of the game to praise...often benign little features or incidences) & even if he comments on parts he didn't like even if he liked the overall product.

Basically for any upcoming game, disregard most comments on content. For any current game, check the context & feel for a person trying to sell you on something instead of merely gushing bengin praise.

I think the best reviews come from a game that has been out for awhile & is no longer a market priority.

Basically it takes one who's played the game to see if the commenter is authentic. You have experience the game to know if the guy or girl is blowing smoke up your...ahem, bottom.

It's not as hard as you think to tell the real from the fake if you have the right tools. But we will all get fooled from time to time. That's just part of being human.

I post with my real name everywhere I go on the 'net (and i do mean EVERYWHERE). Being genuine is a big deal to me & in this world of transients & fakes, I want to be that ONE person on the 'net who you can tell is real & honest. I hate fakes!
On the net & in real life.

John Lucas

fawrzr from Msg #35:
[[35. Although it's a bit dated, there's an episode of Frontline called "Merchants of Cool" that examines just how deceitful (and successful) guerilla marketers and the like are. In fact, they're all so ubiquitous that they manage to dictate entire cultural landscapes by how they inform and bait consumers. There's something of a guided tour that accompanies the documentary here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/tour/tour2.html ]]

I read that link & none of those shows EVER appealed to me.
I hate those pointless MTV shows (videos anyone? hello? at least give me old school marketing of that type), I've ALWAYS hated The Man Show (who said being a man meant being that dense? not the man I wanna be that's for sure), I DID like wrestling (at least i used to) but I always understood what was really going on...just enjoyed the performance of it all, Britney Spears? How in the hell did she EVER become popular? (i've been lamenting the music scene ever since those fluff bands popped onto the scene; worse the New Kids on the Block!), Dawson's Creek NEVER meant a damn to me, and while we're at it I ALWAYS hated that show Friends (that thing shouldn't have run even HALF a year), Insane Clown Posse are clowns in the literal sense, Limp Bizkit? Tell me you're kidding me. HAD to be marketing that made that band.

The commercials that try to be hip always look like they're perpetrating to me. Biting one's style as it goes. You don't know "street" until you LIVED in them streets, son. And if you lived in them streets you might NOT want to BE in them streets. I also hate the term "urban" being code for "black inner city folk & their way of life".
Might as well call country music "rural".

If it's something good, just tell me what it's about & if I like it I'll buy it.

Geico has funny commercials (i like them a lot) but I'll never get insurance from Geico no matter how entertaining their little spots are.

And there ain't nothing wrong with the "off-brand". Really there really ain't much of a difference to notice.

Hype is only good if backed by substance I always say.
Had to tell some pyramid schemer this today as a matter of fact.
Always concentrate on substance & hype will never sucker you.

John Lucas

First of all, that's a kick ass Joystiq logo for this post. I now have a new desktop wallpaper. Gorillaz pwn.

I have seen people who seemed like "shills" before but I can't really see how effective they will be. If they are not actively participating in the community, they aren't going to carry any more weight than any other person, and even if they are actively participating, they will appear too partial if their opinions always tend to favor a particular publisher or whatever.

As a marketer for a startup that has virtually no budget, I'm forced to consider guerilla tactics. Yes, I am forced to think of ways that can get people to check out my site when I can't afford banner ads on gaming portals, half page ads in EGM, and so on. I tried out guerilla marketing early to varying success. I have, however, changed my tactics to be upfront and ask site admins to post on their forums. Most do not reply (i.e. Joystiq). Some like GamerDad, Evil Avatar and Cheapassgamer have taken the chance with us and we have had great success with this tactic. As a marketer, I love being able to interact with potential members in their space.

My point is that not all guerilla marketers are doing it for a large corp. They may feel its the only option available when there is no marketing budget. But there are other ways that build more meaningful and lasting relationships with your customers and potential brand champions.

Microsoft is by far the most insidious and brilliant with this:

1) Give some boys free Xbox360's on the condition that they write "blogs" about console "news"-- make sure that the ensuing anti-Sony blogs come up on Google as news

2) Start a "pro-Sony" site called ps3fanboy. Write goofy pro-Sony articles but make sure they never come up on Google as news

3) Send your troops in to post negative comments on the pro-Sony site

haha Bub I think you're onto something there...

from #23 "All forms of entertainment has marketing that is designed to be subversive, let it be a "news story" on your local news station..."
Funny you mention this, as a local news station has "reported" about Apple's movie download service not just once, but at least three times on the evening, night, and morning newscasts so far. wtf?

“Should we really fault him, though, or should we be angry at the source?”

How is he not the source? These things only happen because someone is willing to be false in exchange for some cash. Which is unavoidable but lame all the same.