MS shuts down Halogen mod ... why now?
1UP's Luke Smith puts on his tinfoil hat and speculates that Bungie might be returning to the real-time strategy genre. If memory recalls, Bungie's first post-Marathon title was the 3D strategy title Myth: The Fallen Lords. And Halo was originally going to be a strategy game, as revealed on the Halo 2 Limited Edition DVD. Smith connects a few key Bungie members to Texas-based Ensemble Studios (Age of Empires) and concludes that they might be working together.
It's all massive speculation, although more Halo titles seem very likely. As an RTS, though? We'll hold our breath, hoping Bungie can break us from our real-time cynicism; in the meantime, mourn the passing of Halogen with a trailer for the mod, embedded after the break.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
KrAzYmAn @ Sep 13th 2006 7:04PM
I have been watching the mod for over a year, the sad part is that they were planning on releasing a beta within a few weeks.
Steven @ Sep 13th 2006 7:05PM
Seems hypocritical of Microsoft to release XNA to encourage a "two way conversation with the community", and when a fan project such as this emerges, they go ahead and shut it down.
Sad moment.
Blink @ Sep 13th 2006 7:09PM
Eh, it's understandable. Depressing, but understandable none the less.
If they change all the characters to NOT be Halo characters, and release a skin to make them Halo characters on the SIDE, that might work, since the goal of the mod is not to recreate Halo, but to make a gameplay mod for Generals, and then the skin mod would not be to encapture Halo, it would just be to make the game have a Halo theme/style to it.
LaughingTarget @ Sep 13th 2006 7:12PM
The mod community should know by now that they're just not allowed to use someone else's IP for their projects. No one should ever be surprised when they get shut down. It is inevitable that they will.
AirIntake @ Sep 13th 2006 7:13PM
What if you sketch a picture of Master Chief and post it on your website? Is that illegal now too? How is a non-profit game that doesn't use original game assets any different than art?
Blink @ Sep 13th 2006 7:21PM
I don't think fanart is technically legal either, but it's just like borrowing/copying a song from a friend. It is illegal, but it's so common, and such a nonbiggie that nobody cares about it, when there's bigger fish to fry(in this case, entire mods/fangames, or in that case, pirating websites/databases).
Oh, and LaughingTarget, there is a case of a mod/fangame that wasn't shut down. It actually reaped benefits even. Someone made a Banjo-Kazooie fan game platformer, and sent it to Rareware's HQ. They never went public with it, but according to Rareware.com's Scribes, they were so impressed with the game that they sent the guy a model of a "Golden Banjo Statue" that resembled those in BK used to get extra lives.
potato @ Sep 13th 2006 7:24PM
An awful lot of MS-bashing here. Let me throw in my 2 cents:
- The timing of this shutdown is probably meaningless. I've seen from firsthand experience that publishers and developers such as MS/Bungie like to turn a blind eye to fan projects. The problem is where THEY are contacted about the project. Legally speaking, they MUST enforce their IP if they want to keep it. If someone contacted MS/Bungie about the project, they can no longer use the "well we didn't know about it!" excuse, and if they want the IP to remain legally defensible, they must shut the project down.
- Furthermore on the last point, this is not a bunch of suits trying to piss on the fans. This is a simple legal decision. If it can be demonstrated in court that a company has knowingly failed to enforced their IP, it can be invalidated. Microsoft and Bungie really do like owning the rights to Halo, so this would be bad.
- #5, you're grasping at straws here. A game based on the Halo universe is a derivative product, a sketch of the Chiefster would have a hard time qualifying for that title in court. It's always nice to create extreme examples to make your straw man, but even that one is farfetched.
Mike S @ Sep 13th 2006 7:35PM
I bet you all that Microsoft takes over development and produces an RTS of their own.
Hopefully the developers get paid if that happens though.
Jameyt @ Sep 13th 2006 7:35PM
You have to defend your IP. Period. Failure to do so only opens you up more when someone comes along and tries to make money on your ideas.
It's a lawyer thing, not a "let's be mean to the community thing".
Khidr @ Sep 13th 2006 7:37PM
Yeah, I'm going to have to side with potato... very well put. I'll add one other legal thought, IP is a weird thing in this country, but we only protect certain things if they're defended... if microsoft didn't shut this down, they'd risk a dilution of halo as a distinctive and protectable concept.
Some examples in commerce:
Using a kleenex; xeroxing a blankity blank; google it.
Anyhow, if they don't defend their IP, then they risk losing exclusive rights to it, and you know, "Halo, a reimagining of the Chiefster, exclusively for the PS3"
Now, the Positive PR move would've been to "help the mod-team reimagine their mod in a non-infringing way"
just my thougths.
KineticOnline @ Sep 13th 2006 7:45PM
Maybe they've hired they guys to work with bungie in making this a 360 exclusive
Jonn @ Sep 13th 2006 8:02PM
My, that's one choral trailer. I'm surprised they didn't just use "One-Winged Angel".
Nik @ Sep 13th 2006 8:13PM
@#4
Actually, not all IP owners are such jerks about it. The Star Wars Civ 4 mod has been in development for almost a year and has gotten lots of coverage but is still moving along fine last I checked
Scott @ Sep 13th 2006 8:41PM
mods fault they shouldnt have even said halo in the name just make it seem like halo but diff name
alienclay @ Sep 13th 2006 8:47PM
.... didn't M$ put out a questionare awhile back that asked about adding RTS elements to the halo series in halo 3 ?
Tristan @ Sep 13th 2006 8:50PM
I had a good idea when I heard this that they would probably be doing a rts which is the reason why they shut down the project. It must be the only reason. Its a good way to keep the halo franchise working, but if they were to make it for 360 also as with pc they should really give the 360 owners as myself a good mouse and keyboard set up. It would make playing those kind of games so much easier. The lord of the rings game in my mind was a little too much to control with. A mouse would have been better.
nootau @ Sep 13th 2006 9:03PM
I dont know about all this arm chair "IP" legalise. Lets take some real examples (no straw men), George Lucas, arguably the biggest butthole when it comes to his IP, allows FanFilms to be produced....and they use jedi, light saber, planet names, alien names that only exist in the star wars universe(tm). He has no problem enforcing the star wars IP. My guess is George Lucas only cares about for-profit junk, anything made by a fan that gets no money, Lucas rarely cares (i think there are some exceptions, but very few) http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/ My guess (doing a little arm chair lawyering myself) is you can make a good case in court that even though there are free/non-profit/fanbased derivitive works, anyone that tries to profit off of the IP should have permission from the IP holder.
Duo @ Sep 13th 2006 9:34PM
Anybody know what the background song used is? It sounds familiar...
That Fuzzy Bastard @ Sep 13th 2006 10:03PM
Oh god, please a return of Myth! Oh I loved those games! Myth 3 doesn't count, it was developed by filthy, filthy outsiders. More exploding dwarves, oh yes...
Akbar @ Sep 13th 2006 10:21PM
@17, nootau:
Lucas? Strongly defending his IP? Since when? Lucas licenses Star Wars to anything that'll make a buck. Don't you remember C3P0's (cereal?) or the Star Wars shampoo? Lucas has no issue diluting his brand identity with cross-marketing and merchandising... And while he may {not} issue cease/desist orders to anyone & everyone who does a not-for-profit fanfilm/fanfic/fangame, that in no way proves that he has no basis to do so.
Really, though, when you get down to it, the best way to ensure that you're baby project won't be shot down is to, you know, come up with your own ideas. If you have alot of neat ideas, but still want to "pay homage" to another IP by ripping off their setting/characters, be prepared to be sent a cease & desist, because you're just taking your chances...
If you really want to give homage to something you enjoy, do it like the professionals do: have a guest character that's obviously a reference, but isn't just ripping them off.. take a look at all of the talks about characters that look exactly like {insert name of someone here} in Saint's Row... or the mention of Zephyr Cochrane in Starcraft...
Anyway, the bottom line is, if you feel obliged to rip off someone else's IP, for pay or for free, then you have to be ready for them to defend themselves...
Coyote @ Sep 13th 2006 10:49PM
Plain and simple, all microsoft had to do was to request that the artist credit Bungie and microsoft and fill out some simple paper work stating that the Slipstream team has expressed permission to work on a fan project.
In these terms they would have to answer to microsoft for any major changes or the possibility of retail. Tho thats highly unlikely as they would have to pay both microsoft and EA.
The only reason microsoft would do this is that they are working on a RTS themselves or as most people would think, they are just dicks.
Kiwilord @ Sep 13th 2006 11:45PM
So, Valve fully knows that a group of modders is working to recreate Half-Life using the HL2 source engine with new content...By much of the logic in here, Valve, knowing about this since it's been on their forums and all over the net for a while, would have to be forced to shut down the project to protect Half-Life source, which is still selling fairly well around here.
LaughingTarget @ Sep 13th 2006 11:52PM
Kiwilord -
In that case, Valve will most likely pony up some dough to buy the finished product and then sell it for $20 a pop over Steam. Because the above mod was using the EA engine with Microsoft IP, that wasn't even a remote possibility.
Xvash2 @ Sep 13th 2006 11:54PM
There used to be a Stargate mod for HL2, but it was shut down by MGM.
bingegamer @ Sep 14th 2006 12:42AM
That's a good idea. I second the idea, and add that they should host the skins via torrent. I mean torrent is the safest way to go, right? :P
James Lill @ Sep 14th 2006 6:26AM
This just mean that when microcrap does release their RTS, we don't have to buy it. I have been annoyed at MS for ripping off developers for years. This is a new low even for them. I can understand telling these folks "Hey, we own this, you need to change this so that it doesn't infringe on our IP" But to just go in and a****ck them just to get a thrill is wrong. I guess the Wii360 is gonna have to become the PSWii
Garrett @ Sep 14th 2006 6:29AM
Bungie+Ensemble? Winner. I haven't actually played AOE III yet, but if the first two are anything to go by an Ensemble-built Halo RTS would be an instant success.
This shutdown doesn't mean we'll see an official one though. A while back a site distributing the Castlevania: Dracula X ISO was sent a cease-and-desist email, even though many high-profile fansites host ROMs of the other games in the series without complaints. The theory is that they were intending to rerelease it in a then-upcoming Dreamcast collection (which later got cancelled) and so decided to constrict that particular game's distribution in advance so fans would still want to buy theirs.
So despite Bungie protecting their IP in the RTS field it doesn't mean their own RTS will get beyond the planning stages.
Dan S @ Sep 14th 2006 8:16AM
Anyone know if red vs blue is a violation of IP? Just happens to be one that Microsoft/Bungie allow?
Gab73 @ Sep 14th 2006 9:34AM
I strongly hope they shut down the project because they hired the whole staff for their next RTS title. Otherwise it would be really a very stupid behaviour to punch your greatest fans. Besides that, this mod was free advertising/PR for Bungie/M$ - now it's the opposite.
LaughingTarget @ Sep 14th 2006 11:11AM
Dan S -
The Rooster Teeth crew has a lisencing thing going on with Microsoft, so MS isn't letting it go for nothing. They get a cut of RT advertising and RT also has a very lucrative support group (I was part of it for a while, paying a premium for 6 months of high res RvB until I got bored with it) as well as DVD sales, which are even now in places like Gamestop for sale. RT has also placed, I think, four RvB titles on Live so far, so Microsoft is getting cash for it.
Phranctoast @ Sep 14th 2006 12:27PM
wasnt there a clone wars type mod for ut2003/4 that got the support of lucasarts.
the only bad thing is lucasarts took the idea and released battlefront and battlefront 2 which ended up being better.
Aux @ Sep 14th 2006 1:40PM
@Duo
The song is Navaras by Juno Reactor from their Labyrinth album. They did a lot of music for the Matrix movies.
Dan S @ Sep 14th 2006 3:11PM
@LaughingTarget
Ok thanks for the info, do you know how it started? I mean in the beginning did RT license the IP from Microsoft?
From what I know of RT (which isn't much) I thought they started by using Halo and pretty much just making video's using Halo, so at some point MS had to say, Hey license that from us, or Cease and Desist.
Wolf @ Sep 14th 2006 9:57PM
What about Red vs. Blue that is using their original content AND making a profit? Sounds like they are just trying to kill off anything else before it reaches the “too popular to stop” stage.
WASD John @ Sep 14th 2006 10:18PM
Dan S:
Red vs. Blue is not a violation of IP b/c it's considered art/animation that was created using the Halo game. If they tried to alter the same ideas presented in the halo universe and re-create it in a game of their own instead of it just being a video to watch then they would be in trouble.
Projects like Red vs. Blue make the developers and owners of the ip happy because their work and effort promotes their product and they don't have to do anything.
Tommy @ Sep 16th 2006 4:08AM
I don't see where this is any different than a fan-created films. George Lucas - owner of arguably THE most valuable piece of IP in the WORLD - actively encourages people to take the universe he created and run wild with it. Joss Whedon's works are also heavily imitated. Neither of these people issue cease and desist letters. Even Paramount, owners of the Star Trek franchise and notoriously stingy over their IP rights, turns a blind eye to even the most professional-looking productions.
Why? Because they understand that true fans create dazzling works of 'art' and that those who are prone to view/participate in them realize that it's not the real thing, no matter how professional or genuine it may seem to them.
"Red vs Blue", anyone?
The good folks at Bungie have crafted a wonderful universe and have demonstrated their wanting of a tight plotline and theme to the Halo universe, both in preparation to the next game and the motion picture. I don't blame them. However, as long as imitators and flatterers (of whatever medium) clearly mark their product as unofficial and not-for-profit, then they should be allowed to proceed.
I think this isn't a Microsoft issue so much as it's a Bungie issue. Their IP is being used on an EA engine. I think THAT's why they don't the whole thing. If this were a situation similar to Valve's CounterStrike origins, Bungie would've gladly brought in the developers to finish the work in-house. Unfortunately, with EA's Generals engine underneath, this work does nothing to help them make money (if anything, it helps EA sell copies of Generals!) This mod would only be a (free) competitor to any RTS they may try to develop in the future.
JR Sutich @ Sep 29th 2006 11:16AM
Now we know why...
http://www.halowars.com/
frankhdz @ Oct 25th 2006 12:09AM
They should have still let the modders continue with their project.
Ewch Insarnee @ Nov 14th 2006 9:12PM
people, as someone who was on the halogen forums, and still is on the slipstream forums, DONT BLAME BUNGIE!
bungie had nothing to do with this except the creation of halo, the franchize has long since been bought by microsoft, whom we all know to be a monopoly. Microsoft issued the cease and desist.
bungie has actually expressed appology to the mod team (at least thats what they tell us, the letters werent public). bungie has no control over the halo franchize anymore, as microsoft owns it.
and to the guy who said that fan art is not really something to worry about in court: the halo books are a franchize yes? look at the longer halo fanfictions, they are longer then the all 3 books individually. now lets take the collective halo fanfiction. thats a hell of alot of writing. dun believe me? go to fanfiction.net, its a huge example, not the best, but a big one. i myself write there.
Darnell Bush @ Nov 16th 2006 8:51PM
I know im a little late here, but I just wanted to say that Microsoft shut down the game because an RTS for the xbox 360 based on halo is being made by esemble studios.
Its called halo wars and will be an xbox 360 exclusive.