Columbine game scapegoated for Montreal shootings

I really hope we dont see any dick comments from people about this shooting.

I can see another headline on that paper:

Pastry Killer: 'Danishes' was gunman's favourite before he went on Montreal killing spree...

I knew them damned pastries were up to no good. Ban them!

Well we know we'll see comments from one person that id say is a dick.

The TO SUN is known for their in-your-face frontpage headlines; so, this one is not surprising.

Hey, according to the Toronto Sun, "Canada Rocks!"

And let's see how long it takes before Jack Thompson makes an appearance in this thread...

"The shootings in Montreal are obviously regrettable, but using the occasion to drag an important, intellectual, and well-made game doesn't do anyone any good."

It's pretty hard to describe a game as "intellectual" when it's got the title "Super Columbine Massacre RPG".

Sorry, but this is real life, not fantasyland - stuff like that counts. If these game creators wanted their game to be seen as "intellectual", then they should have presented it that way. They're presenting it as a game about killing large numbers of people. They brought this on themselves.

Look at it this way. All they've done by giving the game this title is provided a convenient media target. Part of being "intellectual" is being "smart", and I don't consider that very smart.

The Toronto Sun is borderline tabloid journalism and the most sensationalist paper in the country. Trust me, I'm from Toronto.

I know other news outlets have made this connection but none have had the audacity to put that image on their cover. I saw this coming while watching the news coverage yesterday but still - discouraging.

dick comments? like the fact that he killed 1 out of 20 people which means he had to suck at that game he loved? that kind of comment? not trying to be a dick about the people who got hurt, but i was hoping that 1 he killed was himself.

When a child plays a violent game, he will become violent! See, when Kimveer Gill played Super Columbine Massacre RPG, he went on a shooting spree!

To take it a step further...

When a child drinks milk in his youth, then he will become violent! See, when Kimveer Gill drank milk in his youth, he went on a shooting spree!

---

The shooting was very unfortunate, but the tie in to video games makes me weep just the same.

give me a break. Does this mean we have to listen to H. Clinton and Lieberman piss all over themselves again?

If you actually look at the screens of that Columbine game it isn't a murder sim. It looks like a NES game and if you actually read the info on the site you will see that the game doesn't look to glorify anyone.

If people are really worried about their kids being exposed to violence then maybe they should ban all saturday morning cartoons first.

Actually, #6, Jackoff made his appearance on Joystiq several hours ago, inserting something into the Wii DVD thread, of all places.

Joystiq defends Serial Shooter, news at 11.

#11

No, you'll hear from the right-wing crazies which will glum all over the media coverage and say that this is another reason why we need censorship for our kids.

Note that you will not hear them say anything about our gun problem.

Hillary will recognize this as a disgruntled child. games were his hobby, they didn't mold him. Lieberman, on the other hand, is still pandering to the right BIG TIME and you might hear from him.

I put $100 down that the politician you will hear the most from is.....................Rick Santorum (R-PA)

What this tragedy boils down to - and this really sickens me personally - is that Mr Gill got what he wanted. Why the fuck is his face on a newspaper giving loners and kids that are picked on have a poster child of vengeance? I just don't get how this guy get's to eat his cake by finding his fame (read: infamy) because B-grade publications and mass media despots like the ratings.

It's trash to even post his face on this website and try and skew this into a gaming article. People died and you're going to gloss that over with a 'regrettable' statement?

What I see is some introvert that saw through the fact that no matter how you spin what he was planning to do - his face would end up everywhere. He got that, and we all get to look at ourselves and question our morality for letting him get that.

I bet Jack Thompson, the ambulance chaser that he is, is already getting a lawsuit ready on behalf of the families involved. Just the hint of video games and he is ready to sue sue sue!

Maybe instead of putting the blame on video games they should look into this persons state of mental health. It is so easy for ignorant to put the blame on something they don't understand.

THERE IS NO CANADA LIKE FRENCH CANADA, ISS THE BEST CANADA IN THE WORLD.

LMAO h2c (#10)! Can I try some more?

When a child is visited by the tooth fairy, he will become violent! See, when Kimveer Gill was visited by the tooth fairy, he went on a shooting spree!

When a child lives in Canada, he will become violent! See, when Kimveer Gill lived in Canada, he went on a shooting spree!

When a child learns to read, he will become violent! See, when Kimveer Gill learned to read, he went on a shooting spree!

Ah, oh how I love how reporters work.

And USA Today is mentioning that he listened to heavy metal, such as Marilyn Manson...they're always looking for somebody to point fingers at. Let video games and heavy metal alone, this kid had serious issues and nobody listened to him.

"The game does let you control Columbine killers Dylan Klebold and Matthew Harris"

Didn't you mean "ERIC Harris"?

h2c has hit the nail directly on the head. Once again, this is something that any first-year or even "armchair" psychology student will know:
CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSALITY!

There was an excellent article I read recently that helped reinforce that point. It dealt with a previous article that tried to link girls listening to "promiscuous" music leading to them becoming more promiscuous themselves. The rebuttal made a statement similar to the following: "Perhaps that girl who's still listening to Barney albums just isn't interested in sexual behaviour, and no amount of My Humps or Hips Don't Lie is going to change that." Essentially, the girls listenting to "promiscuous" music were already predisposed to such behaviour, and it was NOT induced by the music.

Anybody who draws conclusions that simply playing violent video games will cause similar behaviour needs to take a look at a lot more factors than simply that. Perhaps there's a higher incidence of murder involving a gun, when the player of violent videogames also actually owns a gun, and goes hunting every weekend and loves to shoot stuff. Maybe a guy like me who just enjoys FPS games and yet has no interest in actually handling a firearm is less predisposed to go on a murderous rampage, despite having played games such as Postal (which was pretty weak) and some of the Grand Theft Auto series.

Essentially, such basic conclusions are flawed. Once again, correlation does NOT automatically imply causality.

Oh, in case any of you are wondering where Jack is, he's already posted his propaganda in the "Wii DVD playback" comments.

Oops.

Ian Bogost has a nice response to all the media attention about the game:

http://www.watercoolergames.org/archives/000624.shtml

According to Bogost, there is really no basis for the attention garnered by SCM. It was just on his list of favorite games on some social netorking site. Also on his favorite list were works like Romeo and Juliet, Braveheart, Girl Interrupted.

@Jeff
"Sorry, but this is real life, not fantasyland - stuff like that counts. If these game creators wanted their game to be seen as "intellectual", then they should have presented it that way. They're presenting it as a game about killing large numbers of people. They brought this on themselves."

The title is deliberate. If you play the game, you'd see it is actually less violent than, say, Quake. However, the title would lead you to believe otherwise. One can't really judge the game if you haven't played it. That's one of the reasons for choosing a title like that.

I haven't played much of it, so I can't actually say if it is actually "intellecutal" but from what I've read, the game shows more depth than most.

One thing I wonder about though is whether this game shows that video games aren't capable of taking on serious matters. You can't have a game that deals with death, other than in a titalating way, or people think it's grotesque.

Doesn't distract that the game was quite tasteless... and crap (yes, I played it - lucky for all of us, the game 'developer' has mentioned that this would be his last game).

I feel bad for the developer of this game. He made it as a way of trying to understand all sides of Columbine, as a way to wrestle with such a travesty. And now he's being blamed for another one.

I'm curious, was the shooting that happened in a Montreal University in the 70s due to Pong?

@16

This is only if your being serious, but I'll just hope your joking:

Joystiq, if they were defending anything, was deffending the game and not the killer. Though the game may be poorly titled for something that was trying to be a intelectual dive into the psyche of the 2 Columbine killers, it still stands as a piece of software that was meant to explore the motives and situations of these murderers and not something meant to glorify and promote their actions.

Wow, I never thought that my hometown's news paper (Or hometown for that matter) would ever be mentioned on this site.
The "SUN" tho is pretty much considered a borderline tabloid paper anyway.
Can't take them to seriously.

IM IN UR SKOOL KILLIN UR STUDENTZ

The Toronto Sun is a tabloid paper (sensational stories, half nude women and rants/raves about the MapleLeafs). Quoting them is like quoting the 'National Enquirer'.

Seeing Jack Thompson fall over himself in an attempt to equate video games to these tragic deaths is very sad. His balloon is now likely filled with enough hot air to carry him and his warped 'mission from god' to new heights... let's hope he hasn't heard of a story about 'Icarus'.

I have real empathy for the victims of this and all senseless tragedy... and simply blaming this group or that group is not a very effective strategy.

However, a quote from the Columbine game really stands out:

"My son was killed in this senseless tragedy. He is dead now because two angry boys had very easy access to guns."

Let's see if Jack Thompson (and the Toronto Sun) have the responsibility to chase down the gun manufactures, and prove they are interested in a real change.

2¢

God Damn it! Its mentally retarded assholes like this that are going to f-up the entire gaming world. People always take the easy way out when placing the blame on something! Watch in ten years there will be so many restrictions on game design that we will be only playing Barbie Shit. And guess what? There will still be murders and violence in the world because it stems from other causes.

How many gamers kill? How many games are violent?

Thats all I have to say.

Kinda tasteless to make a game about Columbine. Kinda tasteless to shower said game with undue praise. But then again most gamers aren't moralists, philosophers, or even (as indicated by a recent joystiq article) extroverts capable of thinking fom beyond the confines of their own insular existences. If (a big IF) some game did encourage a twisted man to go and injure those people and kill that 1 woman, it's unfortunate. It's futile to talk about blame and responsibility here though.

jc, I don't quite follow your logic. So you don't think videogames should be held responsible for the acts of a madman, but guns should be? Hypocritical, no?

I've never played the game being discussed, but I question the wisdom in making an event that brought down serious heat on video games--and, more importantly, was a terrifying and grievous instance of violence directed at innocents--into any sort of game, the primary purpose of which is to entertain, not educate. If one is interested in learning about the sort of people Klebold and Harris were, and the larger sociological and psychological problems brought into the public eye by Columbine, one is not playing Super Columbine Massacre RPG; one is in a library or class on the subject. Saying that the game is intended to be "intellectual" is like saying that a cartoon such as "Family Guy" is meant to be anything other than crass--and entertaining. I wish the craftsmen of these things would have the courage to talk about them in a less duplicitous manner (As Calvins' mom said, "If you're going to shock and provoke, be sincere about it."), and that gamers were not so deluded that they believe they're doing anything other than enjoying a video game that...perhaps they shouldn't be.

I think the wise thing to do in all of these situations, in which video games are being called out into the spotlight to answer for society's ills, is to take the higher road and, as much as one can, keep one's mouth shut. To all of those who have prophesied the coming of Jack Thompson, you're acting foolishly and doing his work for him. To those who see this as the beginning of an offensive against video games, instead of just noting the awful event and getting on with your lives, there's something quite off in how you're approaching this: your pastime has become more important to you than empathy and reason.

i hope all this shooting ish doesnt delay the wii shotgun add-on.


sincerely,
a nintendo fanboy

Remember:

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Just as Video Games don't make people kill people, a disturbed and irational psyche makes people kill people.

Ugh. ZaBlanc, pay attention mate. 99% of the anti-game legislation is coming from extreme-left nanny-statist Democrats in blue states. With the exception of Brownback, Stearns, and a few others, most of the house and Senate Republicans could care less about violent games. In fact, Santorum, who you knee-jerk-edly brought up, has stood on stage beside the ESRB promoting parental education on the ratings, not legisaltion. Let alone the fact the "right-wing crazies" are making their own violent games now (See also: Left Behind).

If my old pal Jack Thompson pops up in this topic, even he'd be more than happy to tell you how the industry has bought favor with most on the right...

/Libertarian FTW

Video games made him do it huh? that sounds like its coming from the same irrational people who think that the nintendo wii is too expensive to buy.

Think of it this way. It happened in Canada, i dout Thompson has a license to practice law there. Concider yourselves luckey fair neighbors.

Please note that reading the Sun chain for news is like eating at McDonald's for beef.

When will these people stop linking crap like this to videogames.

People that commit such acts have issues long before they picked up the controller.

When Frogger came out, was there a huge increase in traffic fatalities from kids running in the street?

Exeter,

"I've never played the game being discussed"

If that's the case, then don't try to talk about it. It's free if you are serious about discussing it:

http://www.columbinegame.com/

You're whole premis is that video games are an entertainment medium and nothing more. You're obviously wrong, but you go further by saying that animation is for entertainment only. Have you ever read "Maus"? It's not a children's comic book, despite the use of the graphic novel medium.

Any medium can be used to express emotion. Obviously video games are new to this level of emotion, so they are being criticized for any attempt. But the game does not gloify the killers. It tries to look beyond the sensationalism and get at something more. And the game is made by a kid that was in Colorodo, going to a nearby school, when it happened.

You can read exactly what he has to say about the game here:

http://www.columbinegame.com/statement.htm

ARGH! When will the media realize that video games are the most mainstream form of entertainment in the U.S. and Canada (besides Television)? Gamers are not all 17-year old punks, far from it. When's the last time you heard TV getting blamed because a murderer watched violent TV?

Ignorance is not bliss. Video Games did not make this kid a killer. It probably didn't even do a damn thing to him. This a killer who happened to play computer games.

he was 25

he was 25

Oh well, that's special. This is just what we need.

Quebec is pretty messed up as it is. It doesn't need a game.

Agreeing with Probot. I think a game with a title like "Super Columbine Massacre RPG" is meant to be sarcastic. Sure, it's dark humor and perhaps tasteless but it's still meant to be a joke. The game was designed(whether poorly or not) as a way to understand the killers, not agree with them. It's interesting that something that is designed to actually comprehend and perhaps prevent school shootings, is potrayed as a video game that encourages it. I guess most people can't understand a facetious title when they see one, and make a judgement before even giving it a try.

What is troubling is that Joystiq used the title "Columbine Game Scapegoated For Montreal Killings" I'm sure everyone here took the time to read the articles on this. But fact is the guy was troubled and needed help but it seemed to me that he worshipped the Columbine killers. He blogged about. He took pictures posing as them. One could probably ascertain that he got most of this from playing the game. Never mind the violence or non-violence of the game. He used the game as knowledge to commit his own travesty. I think the game should be put in the cross hairs and the game designer should be under the gun. That game designer should go to each and every victim of the Columbine shooting and explain his rationale for creating such a game. I mean what value is this game going to bring to anyone? And be honest about it.... without those two to explain what was going on through their heads....how does one know what they were really thinking or feeling?
And joystiq...you seem to praise the game designers innovation and creativity. Why? You can't take a national tragedy and exploit it like this and not get heat. I'm waiting for the idiot to come up with a game that depicts the World Trade Center attacks and then hide behind the Joystiq logic that it was innovative and cutting edge and if one took the time to play the game you would see the intelligence it has. Yeah right. I think there would be no rationale in that. There are just some things you should leave alone in terms of creating a game. Columbine is one of those such things.
So once again games and gamers will be thrust into the spotlight and have to explain our hobby all over again as that....a hobby that a few individuals take to another level making it harder on the rest of us to enjoy........