One wonders why it's called "higher education" with people like this winner

It's an online game that gives its players a voice, he should be allowed to say what he wants. Maybe it'll bring a little more realism to the game. There ARE real deaths in war.
I'm curious of what the reaction would be if America's Army prohibited this kind of free speech.

How many times must this old tired news be regurgitated? Great, this guy ruins the games of others. Congrats. The chance of this doing anything but pissing off the people playing is about 0.

And there is no "Free Speech" issue here unless every server is being run by the US Government, which they are not. Servers run on computers owned by private individuals or companies have every right to tell this guy to go FOAD.

I think it's a novel and interesting form of protest, but the impact of the method of protest is in the sheer number of names. Just shouting out one name as you die isn't going to have that much of an impact on people if you never play with them again, is it?

The quote from the military recruiter comparing it to crashing a Girl Scout meeting is a bit silly, as well. It's possible to be against the war without advocating a specific candidate, just as it's possible to be a Democrat and be for the war. Dude needs to chill.

Of course an online game is an appropriate place for a protest. As is any place; one protests where people are likely to hear the message. What's the alternative, a government mandated "protest area" somewhere out in the desert? Does anyone else see the irony and hypocrisy in the same government that routinely demonizes violence in video games creating this not-very-subtle tool for recruitment and thought control? One wonders what sort of education #1 possesses, and why he's not volunteering to be sent over...

The game is designed to make the connection to the real army. It's fictional, but conciously less fictional than many other games. WW2 shooters try to have real events from the past get depicted all the time.

So to have real soldier's names in a game about the real army? It's hardly stretching what happens in games. I don't know how effective a protest it is, but hey, what argument can you make that our soldier's shouldn't be remembered? If this guy wasn't protesting, would anyone mind him sharing the names of real people and their sacrifice?

Lol i think thats pretty darn inventive. I am not sure if that guys analogy holds up though. Its not like the "protester" is saying " JIMMIE DIED SO GO VOTE FOR NADER" or something. With folks like John McCain (A vietnam vet) and other republicans (who actually served in the military) also not happy with the war and deaths of soliders, i dont see it as an endorsement for any political side.

The United States Army could actually have the list availible when you quit the game, maybe scroll to honor those brave men...of course you can hit any key to skip it. That would probably get more people INTERESTED in joining the Army as it shows they are actually honoring and respecting their soliders and not letting them quietly fade away and be forgotten.

Now that's what I'd call a clever protest.

For one, he's trying his best to honor those that died in our armed services. But at the same time, he's making it clear that the architects of this war are treating it just like a video game.

On top of that, he's not interfering with anyone or harassing anyone. And yet, he's getting attention. Well played.

"Servers run on computers owned by private individuals or companies have every right to tell this guy to go FOAD."

So, according to your logic, no one should be able to say what he wants on the Internet unless what he says is stored on his own server/computer? The implications of this statement are absolutely chilling, dude.

It sounds like he's not being terribly intrusive; combined with the fact that AA is of course developed by the army for use as a recruiting tool, I have to say Kudos to Prof. Delappe!

first off, America's Army is a crappy game to begin with, second, if I WERE playing it and this guy were doing this, odds are I wouldn't even notice. When playing an online game I seldomly pay attention to who's been killed and who hasn't, and I'm sure many others are the same.

Therefore, this guy is basically protesting his cause in an environment in which no one would really even notice his doing so had someone not caught onto it and made a news story about it.

Well for starters, America's Army isn't a game. It's a marketing tool to get kids to enlist.

What this guy is doing is a great idea. There couldn't be a more appropriate place to protest.

I fully support his right to do it, though I must admit it would annoy me if he were on my team.

For the record, I plan on joining the Air Force as an officer when I graduate college.

It's an odd form of protest with little chance of any real success.

Even though I have no real problem with war per se, I find it troubling that the army is basically using a "video game" as an advertising tool to teenagers. It's just a little smarmy to me.

I've been doing this for a while now. When playing call of duty 2 on xbox live, whenever I die, I yell out the name of a poor unfortunate soldier who died in the unjust war of WW2. FDR lied... people died.

Actually, these iraq war protesters need to get some perspective. A few thousand soldiers who gave their lives to liberate millions and keep us safe from terrorism is something to be celebrated. They should be honored, and not felt sorry for by whacky lefists.

Free kill, ftw!

I respect his right to protest, I dont respect his right to protest on a privatly owned and run game server. If he wants his message heard, he should go to a public forum and set up shop there, but all he's really doing at the moment is using someone else's money to flaunt his message to whoever even bothers to listen without being shot.

I want to know what server this guy is using so that I can... uh... help him get through his names faster. >_>

Dirk said:

"So, according to your logic, no one should be able to say what he wants on the Internet unless what he says is stored on his own server/computer? The implications of this statement are absolutely chilling, dude."

No, I believe Eric B meant that you really don't have free speech "rights" on private individuals/corporations servers/sites. Which is 100% true. If I post a blurb from a "romantic" story website in this comment, Joystiq has every right to delete it. There's nothing chilling about it.

If I want to start my own "romantic" story website, I can do it from my own computer if I wish. Or I can find a server willing to host that content (again, their decision.) Just because we have free speech in the US doesn't mean we can force others to let us voice it via their medium.

And I don't care either way about protest-boy. Let him frag himself all he wants.

Has anyone thought that some of these soldiers would want their names to be remembered as heroes, not anti-war propaganda.

...but one America's Army player and military recruit compared it to "crash[ing] a Girl Scout meeting by yelling through a megaphone that they should vote his candidate in to office."

That's one stupid quote. In what relation is this professor nominating himself for office by broadcasting the name of a fallen soldier? Those of you who feel that this method of anti-war advertising is hurting a game needs re-evaluate your moral and ethic standards.

This guy, ultimately, probably hasn't gotten his message across. Shouting a name out doesn't do much. Most players probably think, "What was that all about? Is that the guy's name or something?" Then they go on their business as if nothing ever happened.

Basic rules of an effective protest need to both get peoples attention and do so in a positive way. Delappe failed to get attention. Few people even know the names of those who died over there, shouting it out won't do any good. It also has to be positive. This is something anti-war protesters have a problem with in general. Being a general nuisance toward people who you're trying to change the mind of won't do anything but convince them to do the opposite of what you want. A lot of my ire toward anti-war people come from being accosted by some filthy hippy who decided a great way to protest Iraq was to live on campus for a month without showering then trying to shove dirty pamphelts in my face. Great job, buddy, now I want us to go and blow up more countries instead.

Delappe really needs to re-evaluate what he is doing. All he has accomplished was wasting his time.

To #9: That's pretty much how the internet works. If you come to the website hosted on my computer and posted something I didn't like, I have every right to block you/censor your speech. This works for every single site on the internet, pretty much. It doesn't mean you don't get to say what you want, though. People are running servers for other people to use, they're not gonna let something like this happen if it annoys them.

"For one, he's trying his best to honor those that died in our armed services."

If that's "the best" someone can do, it's sadly pathetic. Hopefully this whiny attention whore will be banned from more and more servers so his stupid little publicity stunt gets curtailed. Way to honor the troops, dude - you typed their name in a video game. One that is even less of a potent recruiting tool than the movie Rambo, no less.

Just a rager of a different color, no better than people who spam anything else.

Of course all that's assuming 1) the millions we 'liberated' wanted us to do so, and will remain 'liberated when (or if) we leave and 2) Our actions in a nation with little to no ties to Al Queda (fewer than, say, Saudi Arabia) actually keep us safe from terrorism.

If Bush were to poke a hornets nest with a stick, would that make him more or less safe from hornet attack? I mean it's proactive and all, it's just stupid, if the goal is to reduce hornet attacks. But we're on orange hornet alert, and only the republicans can win the war on hornets, so hoo-ahh, I suppose.

Actually that's a bad analogy, since poking a honets' nest may anger the existing honets, but doesn't actively produce more hornets.

Interesting way to protest for a war indeed.


However this is definitely troublesome for people who are actually trying to play the game. If I saw him on my server running around with a SAW, sniper, or any other limited weapon, not using it and just being a moron, Id kick him in a instant.

Of course I dont really know how he might be protesting, but one other problem I can see through this form of protest is that the guy might be the last man standing on his team, and yet he isnt completing the objective. He just prolongs the rounds further only to piss off those who are trying to play.

Also, statistically, most people that play online games are between the ages of 12-30, which just so happens to be the group of people that dont usually vote or cant even vote. His protest isnt going to do much.

Protestors suck: get a real job, and build yourself up to a point where you CAN make a difference: nobody cares what a bunch of unemployed smelly college kids have to say.

This guy though... This guy is so lazy he doesn't even have to leave the confines of his own home to make his little statement which I can appreciate. Kudos to him for being insignificant AND out of the way.

Well, we're discussing it, aren't we?

It should be shouted from the top of every building, from the pulpit of every church, and from the voices within government itself - war is never an acceptable form of solving political issues.

Everyone in the world should know that war is not the answer, nor is it the path to an answer.

To clarify (cuz I know this is coming...) I know that not all protestors are unemployed, and I know his message wasn't "little": to honor a fallen soldier is noble, and that much I can appreciate about this guy.

Carry on.

#24

Right, how stupid of me. Who could possibly WANT to be liberated from Saddam Hussein? He seemed like a great guy. Especially that Uday character. Dude was a party ANIMAL.

Hornets nest analogy huh? You kinda forgot that we didnt poke it with a stick. We brew it up with a stick of dynamite. The hornets are so god damn confused they cant figure out who they're fighting anymore (the terrorist groups are killing each other more than they are killing us).

Osama isnt exactly staying quiet. He's telling all his terrorist buddies to take the first international flight to Iraq to go kill American soldiers. In my opinion, theres no better place for a terrorist than in Iraq.

@ Dirk Dorkelson

"So, according to your logic, no one should be able to say what he wants on the Internet unless what he says is stored on his own server/computer? The implications of this statement are absolutely chilling, dude."

Straw Man Argument = Logical Fallacy FTL. Good day, sir.

"A few thousand soldiers who gave their lives to liberate millions and keep us safe from terrorism is something to be celebrated. ...
Posted at 2:31PM on Sep 18th 2006 by dick"

Welcome to 2003-4! "dick" Cheney, is that you?

In any case, I support the professor's point of view, but I'm not sure how effective it's going to be. The visceral reaction from pro-Iraq-war folks seems to indicate that it is in fact effective to some extent.

To be sure, if pro-Iraq war supporters weren't so defensive about what a fiasco everything is, and were actually "support our troops" in reality, then they wouldn't mind memorializing these fallen heroes. The fact that this bothers them, I think, is revealing.

I mean, war memorials aren't built by "whacky lefists" to make rightwingers (and Joe Lieberman) uncomfortable.

Let's take the professor's intent out of the equation. What's so wrong about announcing their names? Is that any different than any other memorial? Is it really so disruptive?

For example, the morning of September 11, every TV channel was tuned into the reading of those lost in the WTC tragedy. I wanted to catch the news before going to work, but couldn't. However, I didn't get angry. I didn't say that they should shut up. I didn't blame it on some rightwing political scheme. It was simple a reading of names, in an appropriate context, to recognize those that died.

As a gamer and veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom, I have no problem with this guy's opinion. When you are sworn into the military, one of the things you have to say is "I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" So I love to see people using their first amendment to express their distaste with the way a government is run, or the decisions it makes. It is one right a lot of people don't have.

Somewhere along the way, questioning your government became unpatriotic, which is ironic considering our country was founded by being "unpatriotic" to the British...

Still though, you have to wonder if there is a better way to protest than screwing with an online deathmatch. I know the military made the game as a sort of "PR recruiting tool", but still, its a game. I'm all for protestors, but march in Washington, not online in during my game time...

Games should be games please keep politics out!! We have a half a million other places to talk about them please not in games!

Whoever came up with the Girl Scout metaphor needs to go to Metaphor College, cause I don't get it.

Protest. Very American.

#1 - not an American.

The U.S. Army didn't start this war in Iraq. And it's not the Army's decision to withraw from the war. It's the Commander-In-Chief's decision. So why target America's Army for this protest? This protest sends the a mixed message of Army recruitment vs. the war in Iraq. People who join the Army know that some soliders will die in combat. That's a given.

What this makes me stop and think about is why the government is so against video games and the violence they 'cause'. If games are so harmful then using them to actually promote violence (joining the army to kill people) seems hypocritical. In fact, isn't this exactly the type of game that several prominent politicians have been rallying against as of late?

Or is it only ok when the game leads to real deaths and real consequences?

(and bravo to this guy, very clever way of making a worthwhile point)

I think it's a fantastic form of protest and one that, contrary to what others think, does not ruin the game for other players, but could cause them to think.

#35--it's true, the Army didn't start this war, nor is the war being handled in a manner the Army approves of or desires. However, thanks to the administration's policies, he Army is so desparate for new soldiers that it has attempted all sorts of new methods to get new recruits. Recruiters target in disproportionate amounts kids who are lower-class, less educated and generally more likely to be the victims of this administration's foreign policy. I have no problem with this professor taking his message right to those who are the targets of the government's message.

Two things...first of all, it doesn't matter if the guy is getting his point accross in the games, as people are talking about it outside the games. Second, the game is centered around a current war. Frankly, I've always thought that games about current events trivialize said events, but that's just me. Anyway, a game like that is a perfect place to protest the actual event. Whether it's effective or not is a different story.

Oh, one more thing...this isn't a discussion on the right or wrong of Iraq, it's a discussion of some guy making a protest about it in a videogame. Keep it on topic.

Normally, I'd be against this sort of behavior. However, in the case of this "game", I think it's appropriate. America's Army is a recruiting tool--paid for by all tax-paying citizens.

hey maybe i should protest MS anti trust policies on xbox live! yeah that will show MS. i could have more linux fanboys do it too we can ruin xbox live becasue it is run by a convicted monopolist. I cant think of a better place to get my message across!

I play games to stay away from politics and real world issues, I don't need to know everyone else's opinion on them when I'm playing a game.

I find it a bit sobering, knowing with every kill, if the game were for real, that's a person you have in those sights. America's Army is being used by the Army to get 18 year olds to enlist, thinking it will be like a video game. If Joseph Delappe wants to protest the way in this manner, let him do it. He's basically saying our boys are being killed and it's just a number we hear on the evening news (if even then), and we don't connect the real lives lost to that number. There are plenty of avenues to protest war in general, but this is an inventive one, and maybe players won't be so inflammatory towards one another when they see that real people are killed in another part of the world, and what they're doing is just a game.

While I entirely agree with the message the prof. is trying to send, while I myself am a political activist, but because I am also a serious gamer, I have to oppose this form of protest. Too often are gaming chanels and lobbys filled with vicious argument that turns into concentrated insult throwing so much so that the purpose of the channel (WoW), or lobby (WH40kDawnofWar), is entirely lost. DoW has one of the highest concentrations of skill I have ever seen in any online game which makes it so supprising when you can't talk about the game in a lobby over a ridiculous Iraq argument turned racial slur fest.

What a moron. Nothing more need be said.

"Protestors suck: get a real job, and build yourself up to a point where you CAN make a difference: nobody cares what a bunch of unemployed smelly college kids have to say.

This guy though... This guy is so lazy he doesn't even have to leave the confines of his own home to make his little statement which I can appreciate. Kudos to him for being insignificant AND out of the way."

Since when does being a professor at a college equate to being an unemployed college kid?

Also, this guy isn't insignificant or out of the way at all. This is a game funded by the taxpayer-funded U.S. military as a recruiting aid. A taxpayer is trying to do his part to disrupt what he sees as faulty recruting. The guy seems well within his rights. Presumably if enough people did this and it caught on, it'd be an interesting form of civil disobedience. By being the lond protester of this sort, he's not really any different from a guy sitting on the corner by himself with an anti-war protest sign.

This guy protesting in a virtual space isn't any more pathetic than the military using a video game to recruit soldiers.

And I apologize for my earlier free speech argument. As a free speech absolutist, I sometimes make the mistake of projecting an idealistic worldview about such things onto the Internet, which is a far more democratic medium than, say, magazines. But that doesn't make if fully democratic. I stand corrected. Thanks to those who pointed out the fallacy of my thinking.

I think this is a great way to protest the war. Basically, all he's looking for is to bring to the attention of others that people are dying out there, since we're here talking about it, mission accomplished!

A bunch of people are saying this isn't an effective way of protest because people won't notice...stop and think for a moment, what are you discussing right now? Obviously he did get his message across.

Also, many soldiers i've talked to who've come back from Iraq are fine with the protesters, many have said that's one of the reasons they fought, to safeguard that right.

Loser

How could a college PREFESSOR do something so stupid and childish like that, what the hell is he even trying to accomplish anyway?

Sure he can do it...


until he gets a life. Then he has to come to grips with the fact that logical people protest with their votes.