TGS: Xbox 360 to add 1080p support, PS3 to lose bullet point
At their pre-TGS press briefing in Tokyo today, Microsoft announced that the Xbox 360 will support 1080p content through a software upgrade. The "p" stands for parity.
Microsoft's announcement -- which effectively parries Sony's bold claims regarding the merits of 1080p high definition content or, as Sony calls it, True HD -- is their latest move seeking to blunt the impact of the oncoming Sony PS3 hype-train. With the True HD cat de-clawed, Microsoft's mantra of choice will appear even more appealing. It's another bullet point taken out of the next-gen console war equation.
Joystiq spoke briefly with Shane Kim, General Manager of Microsoft Game Studios, about their announcements in Tokyo today. First off, Kim clarified that, while the software patch would upscale all content to resolutions as high as 1080p, Microsoft themselves had no plans to produce gaming content taking advantage of this ability. He was similarly convinced that very few other developers would see the value in producing 1080p games, with the singular exception of Sony's first-party studios, eager to validate the value of the capability.
Similar to the way the Xbox 360 upscales original Xbox games from 480p to 720p/1080i, you'll be able to enjoy your existing Xbox 360 games at the new resolution. As if you needed more proof that Microsoft's adoption of high definition HD-DVD is little more than a strategic move to limit Blu-ray's potential sphere of influence, Microsoft's 1080p software upgrade will also remove some of the value of their upcoming HD-DVD add-on by upscaling your existing DVD movies to HD resolutions, including 1080p.
So, Microsoft just announced that the Xbox 360 will play your existing DVDs back in high-definition -- in addition to being able to play back legitimate HD-DVD content if you're interested -- and they're gonna do it in 1080p. In the bullet point war, Sony better hope that extra Blu-ray disc space is worth it; they'll have a chance to prove it at TGS this week.
Microsoft's TGS press briefing:
HD-DVD add-on hits Japan Nov. 17th for ¥19,800
Blue Dragon hits Japan this holiday
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
jesus_bon_jovi @ Sep 20th 2006 3:06AM
hmm whats the catch. . .
Patchola @ Sep 20th 2006 3:12AM
Wow, that's hysterical. I love all this bickery, one-upsmanship.
Steve @ Sep 20th 2006 3:13AM
"Microsoft's 1080p software upgrade will also remove some of the value of their upcoming HD-DVD add-on by upscaling your existing DVD movies to HD resolutions, including 1080p."
That just saved me a big chunk of cash, not to mention the time needed to find a decent DVD player that can upscale over component video. It's a logical step for a HD console to take and credit to Microsoft for deciding to include it in the 360, even if it did take a year (or more, I didn't see a release date for this upgrade in the post?).
Zachary @ Sep 20th 2006 3:18AM
First let say I own an Xbox 360, love it, its on right now....as for my question...
Isn't upscaling bad or is that just an HD elitist point of view?
johnny @ Sep 20th 2006 3:20AM
1080p with a software upgrade. Sure glad I just bought a 360. Wonder what else MS has up its sleeve.
Matt @ Sep 20th 2006 3:20AM
Christopher Grant, I heart your TGS coverage. Keep on bringing me back, 'Stiq!
Is what the above post should have said.
C. Grant @ Sep 20th 2006 3:25AM
Thanks, Matt! ;)
C. Grant @ Sep 20th 2006 3:26AM
Ruben: it will do 1080p native, if the original material is 1080p. Kim is saying that MS games will upscale to 1080p, since they won't be developing in it. DVD movies will obviously upscale. HD-DVD won't. Some third-party games may not (he wasn't hopeful they would make them). From what I understand, this is analagous to the technology employed in the PS3.
Lekko @ Sep 20th 2006 3:27AM
wasn't everyone pissed at Sony earlier for not including HDMI cable in the PS3, claiming that that was the only real way to transmit a true 1080p signal to a TV. Then Sony fans swooped in and said that you could in theory transmit a 1080p signal through component, when then the xbox fans retorted with "no TV today can accept a 1080p signal through component".
So, since we already found that no TVs will be accepting 1080p over component cables, how DO they plan on getting that shiny new resolution TO your TV?
Kingdox @ Sep 20th 2006 3:27AM
Very cool, I love it when stuff you buy gets more features added for free.
Mike @ Sep 20th 2006 3:27AM
1080p?
How...expected.
jc @ Sep 20th 2006 3:32AM
This pretty much guarantees that at X06 next week, Microsoft will announce a 50 dollar price drop (plus bundled game) on their core system and premium system. Premium system will also come with an xbox live arcade pack.
So Wii and 360 will be the same price. And both will have games and one controller. Hmmm.. what is a nintendo fanboy to do?
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 3:34AM
lekko
i duno bout component but i use vga which can do 1080p with ease. already been watching upscaled dvd's woth my 360 using vga. now i will be able to do 1080p with the update. and over component.
Alistair @ Sep 20th 2006 3:34AM
OK so 1080p output from the console is only useful if you have a 1920*1080 screen anyway. But if you input 720p or 1080i to the screen it has to upscale to native 1080p anyway. Useless anyone???
Lekko @ Sep 20th 2006 3:36AM
Lefty- TV. Not computer monitor, TV. You know, the big boxy thing in your living with a couch in front of it.
niindre @ Sep 20th 2006 3:37AM
Wow, upscaling regular dvd to 720p/1080p is a great move. I almost bought an upscaling dvd player last month but decided to hold off thinking MS might actually do something like this. Excellent move by MS.
joe smith @ Sep 20th 2006 3:38AM
Game, set and match to Microsoft on this one. Sony looks more and more like a train wreck.
FRANK THE TANK @ Sep 20th 2006 3:38AM
Bravo Microsoft! When everyone was talking about the 360 not being able to output native 1080p, I knew upscaling would be the answer. I agree with Microsoft that the the only games that will put out 1080p are Sony's first-party titles. I have a native 1080p HDTV and the upscaled Halo 2 looks great on it, so I have no doubts that 720p or 1080i games will look GREAT. Kudos for M$ upscaling DVD's too, I'm 99.99% positive Sony wold have done the same thing...wait they didn't. In Sony's defense, native will always look better than upscaling, even if it is a slight difference. M$ has been captializing on every Sony blunder so far, these decisions are putting the consumer first.
Ruben @ Sep 20th 2006 3:39AM
upscaled is wasy different than native, im not even sure if the PS3 does 1080p native. upscaled = sucky, MS is doing good competing wtih sony and tryng to counter all their "Strong points" sony has a tough road ahead of them. TGS will decide for me whatt console im going to buy, i like the 360 especially live, i like the ps3 mostly because of their exclusives(which may or may not be exclusive in the end) i seriously hope Sony doesnt fail, no one wants MS to rule another market
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 3:40AM
lekko
i do have a tv with vga u need to do some real research buddy
not to mention the constarint was turned off as the members decided its better wait. which saved the 500 dollar ps3/ but i guess ms just lied to the world than if we belive u
i think i will go by what ms says not u. i am sure thye know just a smidgen more
phipscube @ Sep 20th 2006 3:45AM
Keyword UPSCALE. Thats not native at all.
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 3:47AM
phipscube
get hd-dvd u get native.
next 3rd party devs can make games with native 1080p if they want. ms is choosing to support 1080p but will make 1st pary games 720p. they feel few if any devs will go any higher than 720p because of costs. but it can be dine native for games after the update if devs choose it 2
Lekko @ Sep 20th 2006 3:49AM
The 360 still isn't capable of outputting a 1080p signal in any format that your TV can accept. Period. This is basically useless unless you play your 360 on a PC monitor over 24", and not to mention over VGA analog connection, not even digital DVI which is higher quality.
People moan and complain about the PS3 catering to only a small demographic, this update caters to an even smaller demographic of only people who have PC monitors over 24" that they use to watch movies on and play games, and even then it's only upscaled. Weak.
C. Grant @ Sep 20th 2006 3:50AM
phipscube: also, see above comment. It can handle native 1080p, they just won't be using it themselves. HD-DVD will take advantage of it, some third party games may. MGS won't, and DVDs obviously won't. If you set it to 1080p, they'll be upscaled to that resolution.
Mike @ Sep 20th 2006 3:52AM
Lekko -
1080p can be done with component outputs.
James @ Sep 20th 2006 3:53AM
I just hope they fix the aspect ratio problem if your not playing letter box DVD's.
FRANK THE TANK @ Sep 20th 2006 3:54AM
The difference is Sony is charging $500-$600 for there demographic. Microsoft is charging $200 less, and if you have a 360 already that demographic is free. Only PC monitors are capable of 1080p, Lekko?
Lekko @ Sep 20th 2006 3:54AM
Alright, now that I looked about there are a few TVs with 1080p that do support VGA. Sorry about that, I hadn't looked fully into it yet. With that in mind, this is a decent move, although still isn't native.
I dunno... I'm still going to go with a machine built from the ground up for HD.
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 3:54AM
lekko
u work for micorsoft. they justs tated to the whole world 1080p for games and upscaled dvd, and hd-dvd over component. is ur only rebutle is that it canlt cause u said so lol.
u sound like a whiny fanboy now. MS just stated to the world it can and will be done. wake up my friend. the hd era began with ms not sony.
sony insert foot in mouth
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 4:05AM
lekko
the 360 was built for hd gaming. now it does full hd gaming natively if the devs want it. or it can be upscaled. not much lossless from 1080i to 1080p even in an upscale. now an upscale from 480i is another problem.
now if i choose to have native movie playback i wil but dvd's are cheaper. i can play any dvd in hd. for much less. u think while i am watchign a stunning picture i say damn i wish this was native?
next have u seen an upscaled dvd in action. I donlt think so cause ur comments about ground up sound like ur fighting for a reason to spend 200 more. I will even give u a break. 100 more.
this move is huge. the major selling point of the ps3 was 1080p. remebr. well now devs can support it. expect virtua tennis to supprt it now. nd any 3rd part game that is multi platform and 1080p.
its over. siny is in big trouble my friend. watch stock prices drop sig tomm my friend. if u own stock sell sell sell. I am glad i sold mine when they were still in the high 40's. should ahve when thye were at an alltime high befor e3.
Darth Kirk @ Sep 20th 2006 4:06AM
I don't think there is a catch.. MS said last year that a year from the release of the 360, they were going to enhance gameplay of the 360; that it would be a surprise to everyone and it was a hidden upgrade in the 360.. Well, I guess this could be that surprise..
ill trooper @ Sep 20th 2006 4:09AM
"Similar to the way the Xbox 360 upscales original Xbox games from 480p to 720p/1080i"
I don't think that's an accurate way to describe what's happening - When playing an XBox backward-compatible game on the 360 (like, say, Ghost Recon2, Splinter Cell, Star Wars Battlefront, Halo2), the 360 up-rezzes the game's XxY resolution at a 3D-geometry level, before it's created what you see - like when you switch your resloution setting on a PC game from 640x480 up to 1024x768 or whatever. That's why while the game's 3D objects are sharper and higher quality, the sprite-based graphics like the texture maps, the 'radar,' the bullet count, the HUD info, menu selections, etc. will often stay at the older XBox resolution they were created for.
An over-all up-res would look very different, as it's interpolating the image up AFTER it's been created. Since a movie is not 3D geometry created by the machine you're watching it on, it's only going to be what you expect: 720x486 pixels interpolated to be 1920x1080.
The up-shot possibility here is that if Microsoft can get a good interpolation happening, the games could look good too - although, interpolating a movie to 1080 is likely lesss work for the machine than running a game AND uprezzing it to 1080.
I have my doubts - For example, the uprezzed-to-720 gameplay in Project Gotham Racing 3 is not as good-looking as the 'honest' 720 menus, countdown-to-race scenes, or anything NOT actual gameplay.
FRANK THE TANK @ Sep 20th 2006 4:11AM
In all reality I really don't want the PS3 to fail, and if you really do your a fanboy and not a true gamer. GT series, MGS...need I say more? Sony is just making very bad business decisions. UMD was the pretext for this. Sony, stop making decisions to fill your pockets and start putting the consumer first!
Frozenhead @ Sep 20th 2006 4:12AM
The 'p' is for progressive, not parity. As opposed to 'i' for interlaced.
Paco From Del Taco @ Sep 20th 2006 4:17AM
This is the stupidest thing MS could have done. No TV on earth accepts 1080p via component. Making it 100% useless. Thanks MS for truely showing you have nothing and acting like you have everything. This is insanely pathetic news.
p.s. - upscaling blows.
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 4:20AM
frank the tank
i donlt want them to fail. infact i wanted a ps3. but i for one don't like pushing formats on us only for the benefit of the company. Not the gamer. and we pay to fight that war
oh Universal dropped bluray support today. Another sony hit. once again sell ur stocks. try to cut ur losses. if i had niot sold when i did i would be out thousands
Paco From Del Taco @ Sep 20th 2006 4:21AM
Universal was NEVER with blu-ray, so how can they drop something they never had? More spin from the Desperate HD-DVD squad. Be afraid!
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 4:21AM
del taco.
once again ur wrong, it can be done over component.
next it will only upscale dvds and 720p games. devs can make games native if they want. so games can be 1080p native.
i watch dvd;s upscaled to 720p and its stunning. so once again ur wrong there 2
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 4:24AM
del taco
wasnlt bashing sony or supporting hd-dvd. just letting u know what i read. here is the link. so apprently they did support it or were going to
http://www.slashgear.com/universal-drops-blu-ray-support-201719.php
cack01 @ Sep 20th 2006 4:26AM
360's DVD upscaling vs. an HTPC + Pure video + ffdshow upscaling. I can not wait to see the comparisons.
Darth Kirk @ Sep 20th 2006 4:30AM
Look, this is not to toot anyones horns be it MS or Sony, but for those of us who have an HD panel and are currently using an upconverting dvd player, I can honestly tell you that you will definatley see a better picture.. When I compare the images with HD content on DISH network, it is strikingly similar, tho the HD content thru HDMI does have a slight advantage.. I am still impressed with PQ and for those of you who disagree, try to check it out for yourself, you wont be disappointed.
Lekko @ Sep 20th 2006 4:30AM
I don't know about you, but I don't buy a console because of its extras. Who here bought a system as a DVD player? Who here bought a system for it's online browsing capabilities? Who bought a PSP to watch movies? Nobody. You buy a game system for playing video games.
It's great that MS is improving their system and adding features, this is good news. I was just wondering how viable it is since I wasn't aware of a way the 360 could actually put those 1080p images on my HDTV that I will someday buy. I know they can't use HDMI which is in position to become the new HD standard cable, so what else could it really use? There were arguments about if component could be used, but those concluded with, "well, it is possible, but no TV supports it". I wasn't clear on how you could actually get a 1080p signal to a standard HDTV.
I don't want MS to fail, nor Nintendo, nor Sony. I want all to succeed because I want a greater variety in games. If anything, you should all thank Sony for pushing 1080p so much, or you probably wouldn't be getting this update at all.
FRANK THE TANK @ Sep 20th 2006 4:30AM
Lefty,
I agree 100%. I got my 1080p TV for the PS3. M$ is doing a good job of putting the consumer first.
Del Taco is right, there is NO HDTV or even monitor that can display 1080p over component. If there is, someone post a link. This also means only the $600 PS3 will output 1080p through only HDMI.
FRANK THE TANK @ Sep 20th 2006 4:33AM
1080p HDTV's take the component signal and upscale it, component is only possible of outputing 1080i
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 4:37AM
once again. component can do 1080p as well as vga. i use vga. once againe 1080p will be done over component. i assume ms knows what they are talking about. specially since it was not a problem for the 500 ps3
FRANK THE TANK @ Sep 20th 2006 4:45AM
"Todays component video cables will not be able to transfer the 148.5 MHz signal needed to accomodate this demanding resolution."
I too use VGA, it is capable of the 148.5 signal.
arabii @ Sep 20th 2006 4:48AM
UPSCALE.... thats a lot of crap.
sure i can upscale my vhs to see in my hdtv
even i can upscale my vga photo to 10 megapixel
i can play video from my cell phone at full screen
i remember my digital 500x zoom from my camcorder
UPSCALE... yeah... who doesnt like to see big squares all over and pixelates images...
if UPSCALE is the answer, why we dont buy just vga cameras, and UPSCALE the image to the size desired. You want a bigger image for a poster, forget your 10 megapixel camera, just use your cell phone, then by SOFTWARE, UPSCALE it to fit the poster.
FRANK THE TANK @ Sep 20th 2006 4:55AM
Your comments: My guess is you've never seen anything upscaled. I'm
pretty sure my upscaled Halo 2 (480p to 720p) doesn't have "big squares all over and pixelates images." What makes you think 720p to 1080p or 1080i to 1080p will look "pixelates?"
Lefty @ Sep 20th 2006 4:55AM
arabil
{Kim was clear that the console could support true 1080p out.
"If it is running at 720p we will up-res it to 1080p, if it it's already 1080p then we can display it in 1080p," he said. " This is a great example of our console's ability and the great advantage of being a software company."}
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/shane-kim-talks-360-1080p-game-output-201816.php
upscale for if u donlt want to buy the add on. and iof games support 1080p it will be native. if its 720p it will upscale. same with the ps3. oh yeah 200 less though
mprobins @ Sep 20th 2006 4:57AM
Man there are some dumbass people posting here tonight.
There isn't a single method you can use to resize content. Some look better than others. Some are faster than others.
Personally, I suspect the scaling hardware in most TVs is somewhat less sophisticated than the hardware present in a 360.
That, FYI, is why people purchase expensive upscaling dvd players and why people are getting excited about the 360 being able to output dvds upscaled.