Sony responds to Microsoft's 1080p announcement

your a poo head

Comes down to compression tactics. I might take a smaller sized disc space, though 9 gigs is still plenty big, over the sluggist load speeds of Blu-ray.

Pretty sad to see Sony has to publicly respond to this.

I was thinking they would have "bigger fish to fry."

Sony has a point here, however, they forgot to mention, "for $200 MORE."

this was totally misleading.

the 360 can produce a 1080p signal for content that is 1080p without having to upscale it. whether or not developers will choose to take advantage of this change for games is uncertain. for all content that is not 1080p to begin with, the system will upscale it.

now here's the 'unfortunate' part-- the PS3 does the EXACT SAME THING! to achieve 1080p output on most games (for example, all the launch titles, which are almost to a man NOT running natively at 1080p), the console will also have to upscale the content. they intend to do the same thing with upscaling PS2 and PS1 backwards compatible titles.

as for Blu-Ray, I'm waiting to see which format wins. if I had to bet today, I'd go with HD-DVD, solely because the Blu-Ray consortium badly mishandled the launch, with the single-layer fiasco, the Samsung player having an HDMI flaw (or rather a software flaw involving the HDMI port) and the decision to rock obsolete MPEG-2 codecs for video sampling. but we'll see...

Unless Microsoft recalls all their 360's and drops a DVI or a HDMI port on them, I'm not impressed with their 1080p bullsh1t.

SONY is G@Y!!!

Good, IMHO M$'s cheap 'muddying the waters' tactic required a direct response from Sony, if only to make clear to consumers what the difference between pure digital FullHD and M$'s analog upscaled '1080p' is.

M$'s hasty 'segaCD' addon strategy (implemented after realizing that a HD console needs a next gen storage format) is just a bandaid, smoke and mirrors solution that will not give them the room needed to make fully realized HD game worlds. Kudos to M$'s marketing people though, they came up with a brialliant if underhanded strategy the likes of which has not been seen since 'blast processing'. Fortunately in this case, Sony was ready for them.

Face it xbots, M$ has just been *humiliated* by Sony, and yesterday's cheap PR stunt has been exposed for what it was.

ugh. enough with blu-ray already. It sucks and games dont need a bajillion Jigabytes. Sony needs to stop talking with their ass and concentrate on even getting the PS3 OUT. Or maybe they should concentrate on making it a good game system as opposed to just using it as a pimp for blu-ray. No one cares about blu-ray and it will fail.

lol graphics

aZn_1080p: why do you sound so mad Ken.

@Andy

Speak for yourself! I totally look forward to games with 50 gigs of hi-def greatness. But I guess you were sad when game systems ditched the 700 meg CD-ROM to go with that "unnessecary" 9.4 gig DVD storage format.

The 1080p vs 1080i debate really only affects people with sets ~46 inches or larger, and then only if you're sitting less that 6 feet away.

Interlacing the signal (drawing every other line at each screen refresh, which is what the "i" stands for) is indistinguishable from 1080p (which draws every line at each screen refresh) on most things.

If you want a good example of how little these small HD issues matter, watch NBC HD programs (broadcast in 1080i) versus FOX HD (broadcast in 720p). At resolutions that high, only very large sets can tell the difference.

Personally, I'm more interested in the response time of my display, than whether or not it's using 1080i or 1080p. A VERY fast paced game (read: the new Sonic?) could see ghosting effects from LCD TVs if the Refresh Rate (response time) is over 6-8 ms (Microseconds or Milliseconds, I'm not sure).

/still buying 1080p sets because I'm "that guy"

Dear Sony,

Nobody's arsed.

Love,
Everybody

#8 - you are wrong. VGA and component can both do 1080p as long as your set supports it (which mine does).

The only thing that amazes me in this thread is that aZn tried to use proper grammar and didn't use cursewords. LOL.

His fanatacism doesn't surprise me one bit. I don't think MS is "humiliated" by Sony's response, they probably expected a reaction.

Sony didn't need to make this type of reply though. They could do a lot of TALKING by showing us the goods tonight during their conference.

aZn, if they drop the ball again (which I highly doubt), I'll be here waiting for your spin!

I'd love to know how many people actually have 1080p sets. I think the vast majority of HDTV owners have 720p-native sets, myself included. Seems like a whole lot of noise over something barely more important than its bullet point on the back of the box.

vaylen, so you're completely unimpressed with the $500 model PS3, as well?

and azn, you wouldn't by any chance consider telling the mostly uninformed new-HDTV masses that the $500 PS3 can do 1080p over component when less than one percent of all HDTV units can accept component 1080p signals 'muddying the waters', would you?

hates bluray, will buy xbox360 for hddvd when they release movies worth watching

so how many of you out there have 1080p tvs....i just bought a 37" hd lcd with 720p, good enough for me

I don't give about all this HD stuff. Me, and most of my friends don't even have an HDTV, yet the console developers tend to think everyone has HDTV.

All the TV's in my house are 480i, and I don't expect that to change any time soon.

@aZn_1080p

Dude, WTF?? By "fully realized gameworld", do you mean epic pre-rendered cinemas that go on for hours and hours?? Cos honestly, that's all that extra space is going to be used for. Hi-def textures and all that malarky...do you think it's only going to take up 50 GB of space?!?!? Do you realize how large that is?

As for Microsoft(the M$ is so slashdot 3yrs ago) being humiliated by Sony, I don't know about all that. Microsoft has the console out. Microsoft hasn't really misled consumers on the level that Sony has(let's face it, all comp.'s do to a point). Let's wait until the all important Christmas season is over and done with, then we'll go about saying who has humiliated who.

The only edge Sony has on 1080p or whatever is the HDMI port. They will upscale, just like MS, or have games made for it, just like MS.

And really, the number of people with HD is ver small, and most of them have 720p or 1080i. And is it really that great when you are 1080p at 30fps? :)

I dunno if HD-DVD wins Microsoft is just one step closer to world domination.

Let me get this straight..

XBOX360 -$299 (no hard drive) + $170 = $469
$399 (one with the hard drive) + $170 = $569
PS3 - All-in-one solution = $499 with 20GB, wifi or $599 with full digital connection, wifi, and 60GB

- The way I look at it, you're better off getting a PS3 if you plan on using the system for high definition movies and stuff.

"This is starting to sound like the "my dad can beat up your dad" argument, only between two major billionaire corporations."

That's why I hate them both.
Make mine Nintendo! (and Apple!)

aZn, I was going to say I agreed with you, but you got a bit too partisan there. First off, the use of "M$" instead of "MS" is pretty juvenile, and doesn't help your argument one bit. Then, "brialliant if underhanded strategy the likes of which has not been seen since 'blast processing'." Come on, exaggerate much?

Expanding a unit's capabilities in response to competition isn't just a stunt, it's good business. I'm glad they're that responsive, and have the ability to make those upgrades mid-stream. And, I'm not a fanboy -- I don't even HAVE an xbox 360. Personally, I'm getting a Wii. More bang for the buck, especially on my budget.

"Full HD (1080p), something that PS3 can do out of the box."

I thought it was determined you needed a separate cable to achieve 1080p. If that's true, and a $40 - $80 purchase is neccessary to get the resolution, this is complete PR bull from Sony.

Dracula Jones

1080p televisions have become the standard for the next generation of LCD panels and prices have continued to drop over the year and are estimated to drop another 10% by March 2007. Therefore, for a console that will be around for a few years, the difference between 720p and 1080p will be important.

my set goes up to 1080i. i bought it 3 years ago. it has component and dvi.

I plan on getting a ps3 and supporting bluray because it will win the format war. people who think otherwise are living in a fantasy world.
If MS put the hddvd player into their machine and put their money where their mouth is this may be different. hddvd started off great but add ons never work (segacd 32x)

I like the people who say nobody has a hdtv set so we dont need any of this yet. speak for yourself. I want it and im glad the two next gen systems will support it.

Microsoft has already responded:

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=13877

"[UPDATE] After getting word of Sony's comments Microsoft told GameDaily BIZ that contrary to the SCEA statement, "The facts are that with this software update, video and game content developed for 1080p will be output at 1080p -- native, not upscaled. Only content developed for lower resolutions will be upscaled.""

BLAM.

DBX00,

What in sweet Jesus' name are you adding $170 to the xbox360 price for?

"ugh. enough with blu-ray already. It sucks and games dont need a bajillion Jigabytes. Sony needs to stop talking with their ass and concentrate on even getting the PS3 OUT. Or maybe they should concentrate on making it a good game system as opposed to just using it as a pimp for blu-ray. No one cares about blu-ray and it will fail."

Blu-Ray is needed for a game format. Stop whining that it will fail or it sucks. The only reason you are is because it makes the PS3 a little more expensive. Get over it. Even if Blu-Ray fails, the format will still be used in games.

What Sony says is the truth. I dont know why so many people are complaining.

Its Microsoft again out with the lies. Like when they say GTA4 was exclusive or when they claimed one year exclusivety over FIFA and Winning Elleven. They are delibratly spreading misinfomation to confuse consumers. I guess it can be called marketing but where I come from its called lies.

There's a particular Sony troll who is making it really unpleasant on Joystiq. I'm getting to the point where I don't even want to read anything because I know I'll see some comment from this guy. It's really unfortunate. Conversations with him go nowhere. He only contributes pro-Sony propaganda and refuses to concede any points even when they're proven beyond a doubt. He just keeps saying the same things, using the same phrases, and inciting flame wars over and over again.

The rest of us can agree to disagree, but this guy seems to think his task is to pop into any thread and remind us how great Sony is, how much everyone else sucks, and how we're all wrong and he's right. He can't seem to grasp the idea that some of us are happy with our choice and that he's not changing any minds- In fact, he's making Sony and Sony fans looks like complete jerks and idiots.

So I have nothing constructive to say this time, because I know it will get lost in the inevitable flamewar started by this guy. He derails every thread, and turns every discussion into a nasty mess, and he probably gets off on it.

That is the very definition of a troll, and I wonder why he's still here.

I love the analogy at the end of the article.
The bottom line is that even most TV's w/ 1080p support can't actually accept a 1080p signal. They take the 1080i signal and upscale it (even if the signal coming in is 1080p). So basically there are about 35 people in the country who can actually take advantage of any of this. So I call shenanigans on Sony for even making this standard and wasting everyones time and money.

@12- that's actually true. Even if the PS3 can do the same exact thing Xbox360 can to some, you'll have to spend more money for the add-on, which eventually adds up to a PS3 price of $600. When put into perspective, PS3 is you're all in one.

So what if two PS3 games might render natively at 1080P, without anti-aliasing and with less richness of effects compared to games rendered at 720P. Unless a majority of games render at 1080P, the PS3 isn't any more a 1080P console than the 360.

Who really gives a shit about 1080p right now? This is not a selling point to me and probably 90% of the country right now. I am as "tech" as they get (all consoles for the last 10 years, 2 computers, ipod, PSP, DS, etc) and my TVs are a 32" sharp aquos lcd that runs in 720p and a 47" panasonic rear-projection that does 1080i. I may pick up a 1080p tv in the next 2-3 years, but for me and many people like me, 1080p just isn't all that to get worked up about.

You smell that?

I smell desperation.
When you find it necassary to comment on your competitors announcements you know you are in trouble.

Face it xbots, M$ has just been *humiliated* by Sony, and yesterday's cheap PR stunt has been exposed for what it was.

Not You agaim 1st of MS said that an HD-dvd add on would be available just for gaming a awhile before the 360 launch not after do your research DUMASS. you sound like a sony fanbot if i ever heard one

#25 - Get real - plenty of sets can do 1080p. Mine can, and I know two other people with sets that can. I think it would be a huge mistake for either of these companies to not support 1080p, as everything in a few years time will be made for it.

loller skates. sony is funny. bill gates should drop his wallet on them, and crush them once and for all.

blu-ray has been proven over and over to be the weaker format when tested by professionals using the exact same movies in HDDVD and bluray, and it always came in second place both visually and audio-wise. Its like saying, "my super computer has 2,000,000,000 GB hard drive!!!!1!1!1!1111!! (and 128 MB RAM +56k dialup)." The space doesnt matter when it takes so long to load. Compare that to a computer with, say, 2,000,000 GB hard drive and 1 GB RAM and T1 speed internet. Its obvious which is the winner.

Space on a disc is obsolete if the loading times arent proper, unless theyre planning to do something like release every sonic the hedgehog game ever, on one disc... which they probably will do something like that... and claim "now this is what you all have been waiting for, this is TRULY next gen". Even though sonic is cool, its not really that special of a thing at all to have it on one disc huge disc, its not like some huge feat has been accomplished thats worthy of praise and award...

now, using the 50 GB discs for storage purposes with COMPUTERS, like putting pictures, music, videos, movies, files, etc on them, I think is going to be the main use for blu-ray, as an alternative to buying extra hard drive space and installing it and all that, just put it all on a portable disc and you got an instant backup of everything and youre good to go... but Bluray does not have strong supporting factors in the visual and audio side of HD things, which is why it is most likely going to fail, as far as MOVIES are concerned, to HDDVD.

Enough about the movie crap already! We know, sony, you like your BR movies! No one else does, though.

And I'm sick of hearing how BR will enhance gaming. How? The ONLY thing is HD in game movies, which if you ask me, is poop. Who uses movies anymore, Square? F that. Look at Metal Gear Solid 3.. IN GAME CUTSCENES baby. They look PHENOM. Awesome. I can only imagine how sweet they'll look in 1-2 more years on the next gen. FMV what? Exactly.

Games, IMHO, will greatly benefit from the blu ray format. 9GB compared to 50GB is a gigantic difference and will make a difference. It gives the devoloper alot more lee way and room to do what they need to do. They don't have to worry about compression as much as they do with the 360. I don't think this will be a huge impact for the launch titles on the PS3, but I do think that later on you will start to see a big difference.

Haha, once again (quite frequently recently) I get a good chance to laugh at Sony.

"...upscaling lower-resolution content does not make it Full HD (1080p), something that PS3 can do out of the box."

What box? The box Bigfoot and Nessie have? Or are we talking about a Jimmy Hoffa type box?

Show me this alleged box.

@DBX00

"you're better off getting a PS3 if you plan on using the system for high definition movies and stuff."

What you say may be true. If it is, then the reflexive would also be true. It would be something like this:

you're better off NOT getting a PS3 if you DON'T plan on using the system for high definition movies

Both of these statements ignore any interest in which titles are available for which system.

Also, these statements make the assumption you are either:

A. willing to wait for the PS3 or
B. you haven't already bought the 360.

If either condition doesn't exist, then the statement is rendered false.

No one is claiming the PS3 is not a bargain priced Blu-Ray player. Of course it is. The question is whether or not you are in the market for a Blu-Ray player or a games system.

For some, the PS3 is the sensible choice. For others its the 360. And well....the Wii is perfect for everybody. :)

Geof

$170 for the HD-DVD drive (assuming they keep the same pricing in the US)

Oh yeah, since Joystiq hasn't posted it yet; check out Metal Gear Solid Gameplay...the proof is in the gameplay guys...looking forward to getting my PS3

http://www.gaming-age.com/news/2006/9/21-50

" PS3 uses the Blu-ray format for gaming, giving developers 50 GB of high-definition storage on a single disc, while Microsoft's 9 GB DVD gaming format is an obstacle for storing HD content. "

I'm pretty sure I've played PC games that can render at a resolution higher than 1920x1080, and even World of Warcraft wasn't 9GB.

DBX00

no is like this cause mnay don't want and hd-dvd player for many reasons. The 360 will upconvert so unless u want naitve movies than u get the add on

xbox 299-399 1080p games

ps3 499-599 1080p games

both rely on devs to make games 1080p or they will both upscale when its a low res. and the 360 upscale quite nicely. I been upscaling dvds for months now

if u wnat a movie player than its a diff story but for 90 percent of us its about games.

Next sony failed to mention they will be upscaling non 1080p content 2. and that its up 2 devs, only 2 games will be native 1080p so far.

Like i said for gaming u can get 1080p games native or upscaled starting at 300

and 249 now in japan since they dropped the price and added 2 games to that bundle. so in japan its 249 to get 1080p gaming. thats 250 less than ps3.
Price threads are stupid. i wnat games no movie playback and this is about 1080p games not movies.