Sony responds to Microsoft's 1080p announcement

biohazard no matter how much you break it down for them they dont get it, i have tried to explain to them why the Cell/Xenon is retarded they bulit to do too total different things,

for gaming the xenon is superior for media/compression/decompression in terms of raw horse power the cell is superior,

but unless you know the industry or the techincals these mindless fanboys will only frustrate the shit out of you.


i mean the very diffinition of a ps3 fanboy is someone you can show them the door walk them up to it, put their hand on the knob, show them how to open it and when you walk away they ask you how to open the door agian, these types are the sony base.

now you know who your dealing with and how retard it is to debate them

@me

1) patches can add support, i guess you might be retarded but the new patch for the 360 allows for native 1080p output
2) the ati gpu can output 1080p, ati stated this.

Nathias: You seriously could only find ONE tv with VGA inputs?! Are you retarded or did you just not look very hard? Here's some links for you:

http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/lcd?c=ca&cs=CADHS1&l=en&s=dhs

(All of the sets in the above link have VGA inputs)

A $1600 tv with a vga input:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10073654&catid=23521&logon=&langid=EN

Another one:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10073121&catid=

Here's a SONY that does (this one is also 1080p and is less than $3000):

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0770HDS0010078384&catid=23528&logon=&langid=EN

A Pioneer 60" Plasma with (gasp) VGA!

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0770HDS0010078261&catid=23526&logon=&langid=EN

Got the point?

SquirrelPhister

Obviously you have not seen pac man running at 1080p, you havent lived until you've seen it. Pong is like a whole new game in 1080p, I heard next year all the stars are gonna be in... You guessed it 1080p... Live in the now man...

This is our last post for now because this forum has gotten too redundant, although I've enjoyed the laughs and arguments we've shared today. Sony fanboys are retards. XBox is the new gaming powerhouse. I'm a Nintendo guy myself, although I have owned just about every system ever, I must admit I would rather have a Phillips CD-I than a PS3. PS3 is not for games, it's for movie geeks with no brains. If you buy a PS3 for games you are going to be screwed or alienated from your piers who didn't buy the Sony brand product just cause it says Sony. I'm going to get a Wii & a 360 and keep my DVD drives for a long, long time w/ my 480i TVs. If you do get a PS3, then have fun with Warhawk and Motor-lameness because those will be the 2 launch titles Sony shoves down your throat for 60+ a piece when they are third rate games not worth player's choice prices. And you will have to own them both because you are a tool Sony fan boy who buys what the masters tell you to. I have been an Apple user since the 128k system (1984). I've always looked down on Microsoft. But honestly, I had XBox, and I'll have 360 too. MS owns Sony in the game department. Peace out peoples.

Most of these people have no damn clue what they are saying......I'm a tech freak and i follow what all the big name companies do and have been doing..ok. I'm a sony fan, but i also own the 360.....I have to point out one more thing about something i read earlier...this is my second post now.....@ #135..the whole compression thing.......Resistance for PS3 takes up about 23gb of space on the blu-ray disk...and guess what....its compressed !!!! wow Therefore the game can't be played on any other system the way they designed it......there are going to be many titles just like it for the PS3 which couldn't be played on any other system !! Blu-ray kicks ass and im glad that sony is thinking big(er) than everybody else. Then you have the cell processor and the rsx gpu which are another story, both of which are leaps ahead of what the 360's shit can do once developers get a little time with the final dev kits.

p.s. You think some 360 games look good now, just wait until the PS3 has been around for a year or so just like the 360 and your going to start seeing all of the games made for it are bigger and better than whats on 360..... I promise !!!

#6 Wild Homes has the right of it. Sony is the one "muddying the waters." The statement made by Sony obviously shows MS announcement was a serious threat. But since last years E3, Sony has been saying "oh, we are only ones with 1080p capability" and ATI has been saying, "um, our GPU can do it too, but why? No TVs support 1080p". So, now, they do, and now the 360 supports it.

Also, have they even created a working 50GB BluRay disc? That is the dual layered one. They have yet to actually get one working last I heard. The single layered BluRay is 25GB. But are any of the games being released even using BluRay? I doubt any games released initially will require that much space. Unless Sony requires the use of BluRay discs, most games will be released on DVD9.

But my questions is, what is the throughput on the proprietary 360 output? Could MS just release a HDMI adapter and completely equal the PS3 for the cost of a cable? Can that output support the bandwidth? What will Sony say then... "Oh, sure, they have HDMI too, and it can be used on even the $299 system... but it doesn't come in the box... oh, what was that, there is a new premium HD bundle that comes with HDMI... oh yeah, well our system comes in 3 cool colors and look at the cool spiderman font guys!"

all I know is TGS was where sony is suppose to talk about themselves not the competition.

This addition to the 360 is a move by ms to please its gamers. mnay who have asked for it on the xbox forums, like back ground downloading, boot to dash and the such.

MS promised 2 updates a year to keep the 360 future - proof. all they are doing is keeping their word

and from their own mouth they stated :
hd-dvd = 1080p over vga
dvd upscale to 1080p over vga
all games 720p or lower can be upscaled to 1080p
devs can make 1080p native games. over vga and compnent


this was for us 360 gamers. Sony wants to spin it how they want but they give us upscaled dvd's or a hd-dvd add on. thats a 200 choice. the 360 is about gaming and many gamers like myself play on sweet monitors and wnat better resolutions. Now we have it

U sony fanboys who calls this a weak move are blind. this is ms continuing doing what it has been since launch. Improve the console. its betetr now than when i bought it. Wow u mean i am getting more for less?

Wheres the huge sony anouncemnts. they betetr have somethign comming cause if theyt are gonna bicker with ms and tell ms what they can or canlt do they will lose out quickly

Dude, Blu Ray is 50GB Single, 100GB Dual. Hence Sony touting it as the better format. Throughput? This is just getting ridiculous. 50 or 100GB games just scare developers. Go ask Ubisoft about it. Go ask Square about it. In both US and Japan PS3 is usually the least favored system to developers for that very reason. Why build a project for 5 years that sells for 60-100 when you can build 5 projects in 5 years that sell for 60 each? Hence XBox being the #1 Developer choice in USA and Wii in Japan. The bottom line is that Developers, major ones, are not supporting PS3 the way Sony is advertising they will. Sony has yet to yield any results of what they advertise might I add. Some day over the rainbow? I've been waiting for PS3 since Cell announced development in 2001 or 2002. It is a pipe dream and they are watching their entire company fall apart. When a certain company starts sucking, like Intel did with P3, when tons of enthusiasts moved to AMD for the first time, and bought Athlons, that is called basing your judgement of a product on more than company propaganda and loyalty. It's called being a consumer. Yes, being a consumer requires you to do some research and find out what is going on, and as you can see, the Sony fan boys can not do any research. To them Sony means Single Observation Never Yielding. In other words, Sony is all that they care about. If it is Phillips, you are less than them., If you are Nintendo or Microsoft, you are less than them. This is stupid to be a fan of a brand and never change just because 10 years ago they made something okay, and lots of people bought it. Don't be a cow, be a slaughterhouse. Kill the cow known as Sony because they are trying to sell everybody on normative thought instead of positive results. Peace!

I got Resident Evil on Gamecube. You have to switch disks in between the game about half way through. Point is, you can have more than 1 DVD disc on 360 easily, therefor, there is nothing but disadvantage to the Blu Ray drive. It's gonna be sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow. LOL @ Sony

@Jon
Hey man Don't get upset with me because I called you out on your argument. I'm hoping others have read and understood what I was saying as well. Here's some more You said/I say for your viewing pleasure.

You say: who in their right mind would buy a blu ray player for 960x540p?
I say: Well Microsoft thinks its a good Idea to release a HD-DVD player for only 960x540

You say: who in their right mind would buy a 20GB PS3 so they can play blu ray movies for the NEAR FUTURE?
I say: Well lets think. Movie companys aren't going to put on this flag right now? There are hardly any HDMI compliant TV's out. And most of the people in the world will not have them for a while either. So the flag would only detract from sales. So I think it's safe to say that "NEAR FUTURE" is as long as it takes to get the market saturated. And I'm guessing that Microsoft is banking on that as well.

Also I never said the PS3 was perfect. But YOU on the other hand, were using unfounded arguments as your reason for PS3 being not as good as an Xbox360. I just clearly showed that your arguments were crap.

you said: also, your arguments hold no ground and is inferior to mine.
I say: Well I guess that applies if you consider, changing your argument around until you actually have no argument, stands as a good argument? (did you get all of that) Then I guess you're right.

And I appologize. i didn't mean my comments as a personal attack. I was just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

you said:i guess constructive critism doesn't exist in your very limited vocabulary but thats ok. i feel sorry for you.
I say: Hey man Constructive criticism is great. But when it's unfounded and baseless, it's not.
I suggest you find another reason to hate the PS3

"at all for the gamer"
Either Joystiq misquoted, or they forgot a [sic] tag. Such bad grammar in a press release...

I'm still trying trying to figure out what movies have to do with gaming per Sony's quote here...

"It's unfortunate that Microsoft's external HD-DVD drive will not enhance the experience at all for the gamer. Sony realizes that to truly take gaming into the next generation requires a larger data format for both games and movies"

It's a straw man-like argument. MS announced updating the console to NATIVELY support 1080p SHOULD a developer want to AND that the console would upscale AS WELL. Emphasis added for people who have a hard time reading important details. Why does Sony even bother mentioning anything about the HD-DVD drive?

Maybe because they've realized they've been selling lies to consumers making them believe that you needed a new optical drive to play in full 1080p. Their bubbles been burst by Microsoft. Microsoft has always stated from the beginning that the additional drive WAS ONLY FOR MOVIES. Again, why would Sony bring it up? By the way, watching movies has absolutely nothing to do with gaming.

As much as I'm not a fan of Microsoft, in general, I would take their word over Sony's on whether or not software can be produced for games under 9gb. It just so happens that software development is a forte of Microsoft, where as, that's not so for Sony. So if MS says the technology exists to maintain HD games under 9 gigs, I'll take their word for it.

"Then you have the cell processor and the rsx gpu which are another story, both of which are leaps ahead of what the 360's shit can do once developers get a little time with the final dev kits."

1. Cell isn't all that. Xenon is an IBM PowerPC too.
2. RSX isn't all that. Nvidia cares more about pushing frame rates than they do about quality.
3. claiming that Cell + RSX is leaps and bounds ahead of Xenon + ATI is just stupid, as you have never played a PS3, and no developers, including Sony will make use of the extra power.
4. For such leaps and bounds why would developers only need a "little time" hands on? I guess "little time" is relevant, but considering that you are touting this Cell+RSX "$h1+" like it's 10x what 360's components are. One might think there would be a higher cost and work load for developers who are already investing more than they make in returns on their games building 360 games.

Seems to me that you don't know what you are talking about and are a Sony fan boy making outrageous claims to legitimize your brand-hoarding. Go read about things before you flame about them. Newbie.

To all those who think PS3 will become a good player for BR should checkout what AVS forum has to say. Over 85% of the people who had bought a BR player returned it because of poor video quality. However over 80% of those who bought a HD-DVD player loved it. So how is a $600 PS3 is gonna produce a better video quality than a $1000 BR player.

I just hope that someone will manufacture a $100 BR or HD read only rom drive for my PC. No need for a burner right now.

As I've stated before....the ONLY Videogame system that launched above 500$ (in adjusted dollars from 1970s) and was a success....was the ATARI 2600

PS3.....you are no ATARI 2600

Damnit I'm still going to buy you in November and watch you rot for a year as I'm an early adopter......much like my PSP.....but my Wii and 360 will keep me happy until MGS4.

I'm still amazed at how much people are worrying about 1080i vs 1080p......

When they should really be worrying about XBOX LIVE vs SONY's attempt to copy it....for which all signs point to disaster.

Ok, I think it is about time somebody who is not a complete retard makes a comment.

Yes, the Xbox 360 has Native 1080P. It can display HD-DVD movies in 1080P over componet or VGA. Yes, there will be 1080P games on the 360 also. HDMI will NOT make a noticable differance in Video quility. If you do a A/B test on your television with Componet and HDMI, most of the time componet actually wins. Having a 100% digital connection does not really help the video. But one thing that the $600 dollar PS3 can do that the 360 can't is do Dolbly True HD and DTS True HD because the only way these signals can be transmited it either HDMI or Multi 5.1 alalong output.

As for the compression argument, it really does not make a differance. A good developer can squeze a 1080P game onto a DVD9, using good compression tecqneces and Procedual alqorlithms. Now if you wan't to make the argument that having less compressed data saves CPU cycles, you are correct. However, that is much more data you are loading into the system, and it takes more time to process all of that data. Also, you will fill up the ram much more quickly than if you had just compressed in the first place.

So conculsion..... All of you sony fanboys are retarted. The 360 can do everything your beloved PS3 can do. The only thing the PS3 can do that the 360 can't is Dolbly True HD, and you can only get that if your home surround sound reciever supports it, wich is like less than 5%. HDMI is not better than componet for video connections. Theoreticly it should be, but in practice it is really not. Also, compression = good. Escpecially when you take into account that the systems OS's are running all the time, chewing up ram.

I'm not buying Blue Ray or HD DVD's they cost more!

DVD's are fine!

Underworld: Evolution Blu-Ray $38.95 DVD $19.94
Jarhead HD-DVD $29.98 DVD $14.99

Hey you MS haters lets get a couple things straight, the xbox 360 can output 1080p through VGA, and a lot of HDTV will upscale a lower grade signal to 1080p. So even with component a HDTV with 1080p can upscale it. And the xbox 360 can do 1080p native if the the original source is 1080p.

Now somebody correct me if im wrong. Sony is supposed to be a champion for blue ray with 1080p, right. But the stripped down version of the PS3 will be missing the HDMI cable PORT.(in case you missed it im talking about the port not just the HDMI cable) So how can it deliver 1080p to the HDTV's. Oh yeah, it cant unless the tv can upscale the signal. Now is someone being a hypocrite, I certainly think so.

One more thing, thinking about it this is great for MS it can now have a great resolution without costing to much. Think about it, to produce a game in 1080p is very expensive and it takes a lot of storage room to hold the data, which is why Sony chose blue ray. But MS and its developers can focus on making great games without having the expense of doing it 1080p. Now dont get me wrong by no way am I saying they should slack off and produce low quality graphics. I'm just saying that great games like Oblivion, COD2, would of cost a lot more to make and in the case of Oblivion it probably would of needed a second DVD 9 disk to hold all the data, if it was done on 1080p. Now developers need not to wory too much about filling up the capacity of a DVD disk. And besides most developers didnt come close to maxing the capacity of the disk, due to financial constraints. Now they just dont have to. In the end MS and xbox 360 owners are having their cake and eating it to.

It's definitely true that it's just a bullet point. If my facts are correct Sony only has one 1080P television up on the market. That being true how can they care so much if only one of their TVs can do the "true HD" or is it just a way to get you to buy their console. honestly would you want to lose a sale just because of one little thing I don't think so they all have to much riding on this to let even a few sales go to the competition.

I agree with that nice argument.

Hey Sanchinos, I didn't say I could only find one TV with VGA inputs, I said I could only find one 1080p TV with VGA inputs. And since the 360 upgrade only delivers 1080p across VGA, that is the threshold requirement.

Microsoft is misleading customers with this announcement. They claim native 1080p games will be sent in 1080p across component cables, but I challenge you to find me one TV that displays 1080p through component cables. All the other upconversion will done only across VGA. I guess that's great for people who play 360 on widescreen computer monitors, but it is net useless for people who use their 360s on their televisions.

I understand Microsoft is floundering right now. 360 has been a disaster for them; they're on track to sell roughly half as many units in the first year as the 10 million they'd promised their shareholders. But the solution is to, oh, I don't know, make some good GAMES instead of trying to target their competitors' features with half-assed upgrades. They should focus on what they do well (Xbox Live) and not waste time on what they don't (HD movie playback).

JET

Could someone explain to me the whole idea behind "developers have to make their games 1080p for it to work"

480p, 720p and 1080p... I thought they were TV standards equivalent to 640x480, 1024x768 and so on (I'm not listing all the resolutions)

I know the difference between p and i... could it be compared to different refresh rates or is that another factor completely?

In any case, if 1080p is a resolution, then it's independant of the game, I would have thought... like on a PC, most 3D games, you choose what resolution you want in the settings... they don't have to create every geometry asset several times to cover different resolutions. They don't even do that for textures, texture resolutions are for how detailed they will be on said geometry.

Anyway, if someone could clear that up for me it would be great.

There is no such thing as HD game data... that comment was mis-leading. They said the discs can hold 50GB of HD game data, what they should have said is that the discs hold 50GB of data, which is enough room for HD games... they are implying that Blu-Ray somehow made high definition 1's and 0's

i love how they say that even though their games are 720p hahahha...and calling 9 GIGS an obstacle...ill start calling it an obstacle when Games like Condemned actually take up more than half the space provided

Is Halo 3 or Gears of War coming out on PS3? No. Winner = X360.

I agree, I would like HDMI on my 360 to remove the interference I get on component AND to free up the component for my legacy gear.

The sony statement is just PR. It means nothing. It's funny how every response is "bigging up" blu-ray and that shows that Blu-Ray is their priority and not consoles or gamers.

Shame they ommited to mention how poor their GPU is compared to the 360 and that the PS3 is going to have a hard time DELIVERING that massive content while it's hampered by the "very-far-from-next-gen GPU" (graphics chip for those that don't know).

Expect to see lower levels of distance detail, shorter draw distances, higher res screens (sometimes) but lower res textures and certainly less flexible shader trickery meaning less ECPGPUM (Eye candy per GPU Mhz).

And I don't think the 360 is all that powerful either before people call me a fanboy, it's got nothing on a top spec PC but what it does have is great HD output, great controller and good games. And it's very well priced also. Oh and it can do 1080p go figure! ;)

OMG I hate Sony. I hate the way they come out of the woodwork and attack Microsoft like that. I'm Only getting a ps3 to sell it on ebay. Then after I list it I'll head back to my 360 and play some Gears of War while bidding gradually increases on my PS3. A big Fuck You to Sony. Jealous that Microsoft knows that all it takes is compression to get a beautiful game like gears of war onto a single Dual Layer DVD. And still it looks amazing, also has great frame rates. Bravo Microsoft, I'm sick of Sony's scare tactics.

If I had to say anything, I'd say Sony has historically had better games... and I stress historically. By the way, I'm an XBOX owner.

If MS can continue to pull together a great catalog of games, I think, overall, MS is a better choice despite the annual fee for XBOX Live membership... this is in light of the fact that Sony's online community will be free (this being said at least for now).

I think the real question comes down to where gaming is going... if it's towards a cross-functional platform community (PC's and consoles integrated in gameplay online) with super "worlds" that all have to be HD to be cool, then yeah, the 1080i and 1080p (and storage space) may be issues, especially if you have a huge set and need the better technology... and in which case, as someone said above, you should really just be paying attention to the refresh rate... if cross-functional integration does come mainstream, leave it to MS to have the clear advantage given that they build the operating system practically the entire world uses (although I have a MAC).

For the majority of the customer base, I'd say a 30" set is probably about average and will continue to be average for years to come. All this hype about 1080i and 1080p isn't going to matter for a 30" set.

Given that both systems can now upconvert DVDs, and given that the majority of the customer base has tv's in the 30" in range, get an Xbox 360, save money, and support the development of a great game catalog.

Overall the MS platform will likely eventually sync with and stream from your home pc... MS is going to win the war of taking hold of your living rooms.

I couldn't care less who wins, and no, I don't work for either MS or Sony... just my thoughts.