Sony: Nintendo is losing audience, not expanding it
In an interview with GameDaily, Sony VP Jack Tretton spoke out about the PSP versus DS market share battle. He believes according to early adoption rates of both the PSP and DS that Nintendo may actually be losing its core gamer audience instead of expanding upon it. From the interview:"[Nintendo and their DS] are appealing to the same audience that Game Boy has always appealed to. And if you look at the adoption rate of the DS over the first 17 months, not only does it trail the PSP but it also trails their other platforms ... They're potentially losing some of their core audience and they're not really expanding beyond that, and we think we're expanding into a completely new audience as we did with PlayStation ... we'll dip down to the younger consumer eventually, and we'll ultimately appeal to that vastly Earth wide audience we carved out with the original PlayStation."
Does this mean Tretton believes Nintendo is trying to grow the market that PSX already expanded? There's no denying that the original PlayStation and even PS2 expanded the total number of console owners in the world, but the belief that the PSP and PS3 will expand to non-gamers without even trying is news to us.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Raynre @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:31PM
As opposed to the massive audiance that can afford to spend $3000+ to deck out their current entertainment system?
And when was the DS ever trailing the PSP? It may have sold a little more than the DS in some months, but the DS is still outselling the PSP in all regions...
potato @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:31PM
Adoption rate of DS lags behind PSP? Somebody hit this guy with the cluestick.
Jeff @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:32PM
"And if you look at the adoption rate of the DS over the first 17 months, not only does it trail the PSP"
What bizarro world is this guy living in?
delldude420 @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:32PM
crack kills
corwin @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:32PM
whoa, bitter bob.
Nin10dude @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:34PM
...What? What the hell is he basing this off of? I know Sony's done some done things, but I don't think they've ever just spoke total crap like this before.
darryl @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:37PM
He's correct... The PSP is selling like crazy and it's double the price of the DS! No matter how many times Nintendo repaints the DS and then resells it to the same people, they will inevitably lose more and more market share to the sexy PSP.
Especially as the PSP price drops over the next few years.
Steven @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:37PM
Oh, I get it. When a console sells a freaking boat load more than everything else, it actually means that they're losing their audience. Thanks for the clarifaction. /sarcasm
Dan Pajor @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:37PM
How will they appeal to a younger audience with a $599 price? Sorry, I'm really not buying into what some Sony exec has to say about targeting audiences when you're making the system nearly impossible to purcase with the high cost of both the hardware and software, and only 400,000 units being shipped this year.
geves @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:39PM
so having a handheld console that's movie companies are moving away from and is about to die is a good thing?
this guy is a moron. someone please throw a refrigerator at him.
MewMewtwo45 @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:41PM
So Darryl, how about that new Camoflauge PSP?
asdfasf @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:41PM
ds will never out sell the gameboy
Louis S. @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:44PM
We all know the N-Gage is the true victor.
Raynre @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:44PM
"Especially as the PSP price drops over the next few years." ~ darryl
Of course, this would only exist in the fantasy world where the DS didnt drop in price as well...
Much like Sony's fantasy world where everything runs in 4D at 120fps.
Probot @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:44PM
"And if you look at the adoption rate of the DS over the first 17 months, not only does it trail the PSP but it also trails their other platforms..."
That's about right. In case most people don't remember, the DS had a very rough start. The PSP led the DS for several months.
However, none of that matters now. Last month, the DS outsold the PSP by 100,000 units in North America according to the NPD.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/psp./august-sales-show-ds-continues-to-pwn-202614.php
And in Japan, well, the DS outsells the PSP by 100,000 every week.
http://www.dsfanboy.com/2006/09/22/japanese-hardware-sales-11-september-17-september-english-so/
darryl @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:44PM
"So Darryl, how about that new Camoflauge PSP?"
It's pretty cool, I wouldn't buy it though because I already have one. Unlinke Nintendo, Sony is releasing other colors/skins of the same device. Rather than Nintendo's DS Lite, which is just just a less fugly version of the previous version.
How many DS owners here bought both versions of the DS? Probably 80% or higher... suckas!
Ndric @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:46PM
Hypocrite much? :
Guillermo Garcia-Mont @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:46PM
It seems like this guy is has a problem; his head is too far up his ass. The PSP has nowhere near the same comsumer base as the DS has. Nintendo stuck it to them with the very underpowered DS, and they will do the same with the Wii. Sorry sony fanboys, you guys can buy your PS3 ans wait until metal gear comes out. I'll have a wii and about 4 great games; for the same price.
serbz @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:47PM
@1,2 and 3
when the ds was still phat.
Dr.Swiss @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:49PM
I have nothing against Sony...but...whaaaat?
Did he seriously just say what I think he said?
Man, Sony is starting to act like a washed up celebrity who deliberately does bad/stange/questionable stuff just to stay in "in the know".
Ndric @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:50PM
I feel sorry for darryl sometimes. I seriously hope he's just a marketer and not an actual individual.
If it's the latter, how are the white padded walls?
Raynre @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:51PM
"@1,2 and 3
when the ds was still phat." ~serbz
No... even then it sold about even. Which was suprising considering there were no real good games for either system six months in...
aka Bitter @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:52PM
"And if you look at the adoption rate of the DS over the first 17 months, not only does it trail the PSP"
What bizarro world is this guy living in?
end quote
Jeff: It's called "Marketing Land".
Technically, this is probably true(for the first 17 months of each systems' launch) as the DS had a relatively slow start. If you look at current sales or total systems sold, it's all DS, all the time.
But you can't expect Sony to say that, can you? ;)
MewMewtwo45 @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:55PM
I agree Ndric. If people want to rebuy a DS Lite and keep their DS Phat, more power to them. A lot of people will trade in their DS for a DS Lite though. I think Darryl's also forgetting Sony is not immune to this practice either. PS2 Slim and then extra colors for it, notably pink as of late (which in regards to the DS Lite being a less fugly verison of the previous DS, maybe the PS2 Slim is just a more fragile version of the already fragile system before it).
subnet6 @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:56PM
It appears that "Batshit Crazy" is contagious and Krazy Ken has been making out with this guy.
Either that or Ken left his crackpipe where this guy could find it........right before the interview.
justchris @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:56PM
I unfortunately don't have the numbers directly available to me, as I'm at work, but this guy is so very wrong.
The DS came out appx 5 months before the PSP. When the PSP came out, it outsold the DS for about 6 months (in the US and Europe, only about 3 in Japan). The DS has outsold or tied the PSP in every region since then (I consider a tie any difference of less than 1k units).
While, when it first released, the PSP did outsell the DS, it never sold enough units to close the gap the DS had already opened in the 5 uncontested months it was out. In adoption rate, the DS is already outselling the GBA. It hit 21 million back in June, after a year and a half, and it's sales have maintained a lead over PSP, being the number one selling system in every territory in June, July & August. It looks to be having another stellar month in the US with the black & Pink DS Lites being completely sold out (when I picked up my Black DSL, it was the last one in the store, and all the pinks had sold out earlier that week).
The PSP is still selling, but it's sales are steadily decreasing (barring some fluctuation with new game releases). It should see a surge in sales as the holidays near, but so should the DS. The PSP will continue to sell, but at this point, it is highly unlikely it is ever going to surpass the DS, whereas the DS is well on it's way to surpassing the GBA, and could match the PS2 by the end of it's lifespan. Don't be surprised if the DS hits >30 million by its 2 year anniversary (mid-November) Then, assuming it sells just 15 million every year for the rest of it's lifespan (presumed to be 5 years), it will match the GBA. What is more likely is it will see a spur in sales with the next price drop (probably sometime next summer).
That was a really wordy way of saying, 'This guy needs to go easy on the drugs.'
Jay @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:58PM
How can they even spew falsehoods like that ... the DS is easily reaching into the non-gamer arena -- that's why it's selling so crazy. Wow ... denial is just hard to watch.
Louis S. @ Sep 22nd 2006 9:58PM
Someone tell Sony to shut their face, N-Gage sold 5 gajilion units yesterday.
"Better then DS for 17 months"? Phhh... you're WAAAAAY outta your league here, Sony.
striderhayasa @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:01PM
1. DS Lite - 134,885 [4,445,542] units
2. PlayStation 2 - 34,189 [1,034,214] units
3. PSP - 26,995 [1,312,479] units
4. GBA SP - 2,330 [196,376] units
5. GB Micro - 1,244 [122,396] units
6. Xbox 360 - 928 [74,949] units
7. GameCube - 630 [65,297] units
8. Nintendo DS - 478 [954,815] units
9. GBA - 27 [3,075] units
10. Xbox - 7 [1,661] units
HARDWARE
August
DS Lite: 250,599
DS: 27,503
Total: 278,102
PSP: 146,893
Difference: 131,209
Lifetime
DS Combined: 5,869,374
PSP: 5,003,534
Difference: 865,840.
It is worth noting here that the PSP did come out after the DS, so Nintendo got a headstart.
SOFTWARE
August
DS: 1,090,810
PSP: 875,638
Difference: 215,172
Lifetime
DS: 18,337,100
PSP: 16,880,290
Difference: 1,456,10
Denial is always the first stage.
ejflex @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:01PM
Who are these guys who have 10+ stars sleeping with to get that much kudos from the Joystiq staff? Seriously.
Oh yeah and Wii FTW.
Exo @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:03PM
psp has only had 3 games sell just over the 1 million mark. DS ahs abotu 8 games that sold well over a million, nintendogs aone sold more then 7 million.
DS's top games have outsold the entire psp library. and the system has sold more units.
Please explain how that is loseing?
Unless sony doesnt realise that your supposed to make money and not lose it
dish @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:05PM
@ 16 i have bought both versions of the ds. Not b/c I am a 'sucka' but b/c you can play a majority of ds games multiplayer with 1 cartridge. So why not have to it only makes since.. like have 2 controllers.
Louis S. @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:09PM
@ 29 - Where are your N-Gage numbers?!?
Afraid of the truth?
N-Gage just sold 34,098,390,201 units 3 seconds ago.
It's on FI-YAH!
page @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:10PM
Don't overlook the simple fact that the PSP has buried the GameBoy of which was a strong brand name.
Also of note is that many of the DS'ers have bought the system twice, so their percieved market share isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Louis S. @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:11PM
I bought the N-Gage 500 times. :)
Louis S. @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:12PM
Heh heh... make that 501 times. >:3
On second thought...
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601 times...
Kuu2 @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:13PM
Sony just needs to shut their mouths.
Lorben @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:15PM
# 26
The PSP was first released on Dec. 12 2004
The DS was first released on Nov. 21 2004
This gives the DS a headstart 20 days, not 5 months.
Dates from Wikipedia
Louis S. @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:17PM
N-Gage launched on October 7, 2003.
It sold 23482309487320498723409872340982374029384723094872309872340987409874094872304982375408923702384623084762309486230846230847623
Miniboss @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:18PM
"Don't overlook the simple fact that the PSP has buried the GameBoy of which was a strong brand name."
What? How does that work? That's like saying the SNES buried the NES, or the PS2 buried the PS1.
LaughingTarget @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:18PM
page -
It is also important to factor in the shipped vs sold inforation, which negates any double-purchases. Also, given various reports that the actual DS install base in Europe is at 70% (meaning out of all the PSP and DS units in the hands of actual consumers, 70% of them are DS units) highlights just how skewed Sony's shipped figures really are.
Furthermore, it doesn't help much that the DS is a much more competent software mover than the PSP is. The PSP has difficulty selling software because Sony made a major mistake and built the PSP to run homebrew software, which incidentally doesn't make Sony, publishers, or developers any money. UMD sales aren't very pretty, which is why a lot of retailers have begun pulling support for the format, and other companies (Universal for example) are cut-rating their supply, in likely preparation to discontinue support entirely.
Even if the PSP sold an even number with the DS, it is still far behind since the customer base is not one that spends money on actual software. Why buy a UMD game when you can get a bunch of free emulators?
redspear @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:26PM
http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=9697
The DS has SOLD over 21 million
The PSP has shipped over 18 million but SOLD just over 12.5 million
The DS manages to just sell its amount in stock. Sony still has about 5.5 million systems unsold on shelves.
Denial is a very big stage indeed.
DS has outsold all other consoles combined by several thousand in Japan by several thousand and over 10 million total. Sony is not even close to that. Both handhelds have sold about even in the US and Europe with Sony edging it out slightly every month but behind on the launch window. Now it is being outsold in both territories. There is no way way that they are that close
Mikelx215 @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:26PM
Page said: "Don't overlook the simple fact that the PSP has buried the GameBoy of which was a strong brand name.
Also of note is that many of the DS'ers have bought the system twice, so their percieved market share isn't all it's cracked up to be."
Not quite. Nintendo is phazing the Gameboy line out.
delerious @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:26PM
Jack Tretton is an I-D-I-D-O-T-H
ZekeThePlumber @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:27PM
No no no, fair Joystiq readers, you have it all wrong.
You see, using the super computer powers of the PS3, Sony has accessed the 4th dimension and has thusly traveled back in time to change the course of events in which the DS vastly out sold the PSP. These vague delusions of the DS's success are merely remnents of the memories that were McFlyed from your brains when Sony rewrote history. Sadly, as confused as you may be, dear friends, the PSP's phenomenal success is merely a result of Jack Tretton's tampering with our existing timeline. Although I am not at liberty to divulge my sources of said conspiracy, I assure you of its authenticity.
The fact that Sony was able to do this is astounding, as in time travel, safty is not guarrenteed. I hear they even brought their own weapons.
Incidentally this is also how the giant crabs got into historical Japanese battles.
Dean @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:28PM
Wow, Sony is a hydrogen filled Air Balloon, and the Wii60 combo is a motherfucking flammmethrower. With comments like this, Sony is losing their hardcore market, and with crazy "bat outta hell" price tags of $700+ for the PS3 they are losing everyone else...crash and burn Sony...A swing and a miss with Bluray and the PS3.
Jeff @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:31PM
"Who are these guys who have 10+ stars sleeping with to get that much kudos from the Joystiq staff?"
(points at the sidebar)
Dude, out of 440+ comments, I would *hope* to have this much kudos. Just means 430+ out of my 445 comments haven't been worth jack.
As far as I'm concerned, if you can't keep up a .035 batting average, then you probably shouldn't be posting here. Or anywhere else.
btw, 9 out of my 11 points came within my first 200 comments. That's what these pre-launch console arguments will do to a guy's reputation.
peko @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:35PM
i got this image on neogaf forum once..
its a nice graph about ds sales vs psp.
http://felipeko.googlepages.com/dsvspspjp.png
Miniboss @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:36PM
I think the thing that really bugs me the most is that GameDaily knew that he was spewing crap, but he didn't call him on it. Can we get Shoe to interview this guy? Bring lots of graphs, because apparently he can't read.
Oh goodness @ Sep 22nd 2006 10:38PM
I think you people are misinterpreting what he said. He was stating that Nintendo isn't exapanding their product to more people like the PS1 did when it came out, but losing their own core audience. The DS has sold 21/22 million in the 2 years it has been out. Compared to the GBA which sold over 100 million in 5 years.
If you compare, the DS has sold 10-11 million a year compared to the GBA which sold 20 million a year and still continues to sell even while the DS allows you to play GBA games. You have to ask why that is? Is it because of the PSP or is it because of something Nintendo has done or not done? Rhetorical question.
Sony went from 0% market share in the handheld market, to whatever they have now. That is a win for them. Even if they aren't winning the race. The DS while selling stupendously doesn't have that much of an edge in the hardware side of sales. Lopsided NPD sales withstanding. Software sales are a whole nother story. The DS is a gold mine for developers.
That, people, is what our Sony guy was talking about and why you people need to comprehend what people say instead of rushing to judgement. If Nintendo had said this and the numbers were reversed then you guys would still come out bashing Sony.
Remember, fanboys only harm the gaming community.