Wii graphically the low man on the totem pole [update 1]
by Kevin Kelly 
{ Sep 22nd 2006 at 4:25PM }
While it's no secret that the Wii doesn't have the sheer processing power of the Xbox 360 of the PS3, this interview with Epic's Mark Rein makes it a bit easier to understand -- "it's not Intel integrated graphics, but it's pretty far below the kind of min-bar of Unreal Engine 3." Previously, Epic had been considering using Unreal Engine 3 on the Wii, which at that point was still the Revolution.He goes on to admit that Unreal Engine 3 wouldn't run on the original Xbox, or the PS2, but it is being used for subsequent games on the next-gen versions of both of those consoles.
With Ubisoft using Unreal Engine 2 for Red Steel, does this mean that the Wii will always be a distant third in the graphics department? Or will it pull ahead due to its innovative gameplay?
[Via GoNintendo]
[Update: fixed spelling of Mark's name]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Stu L Tissimus @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:31PM
Coming up next on Faux News: Humans breathe air! More at 11!
clo1_2000 @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:31PM
No shit. In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet.
JodyAnthony @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:31PM
uh, hasn't this guy made this same statement like 4 or 5 times now? We get it already.
greatn @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:35PM
What? You are saying the Wii is not as powerful as the other consoles? UNPOSSIBLE! I am absolutely SHOCKED! THIS IS BIG NEWS THAT COULD SHATTER REALITY!
Dean @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:07PM
Wow Kevin, you really don't want the Wii to get any sales...*COUGH* BIAS *COUGH*
burnt_secondary @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:36PM
This has always been my biggest issue with the Wii. They might be able to get away with slightly better gamecube graphics for the first year or so but how will Wii games look compared to the competition a year from now . . . two years from now.
This may hurt eventually, (not kill the system by any means) but the graphical gap is only going to get more and more noticeable.
confucious the obnoxious little sh** as told by KilgoreTrout XXLMS @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:36PM
why be such pricks ? is it that hard to just agree or disagree.. .
obviously it must because you have to go off and be a load of asses.. .
concering the article.. . yes the wii will lose graphically, but it'll win with the innovative game play.. . but what do i know, i've never played one.. .
Derbeste @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:37PM
Is it possible for a article poster to be a troll?
/reads article again
.......yeup.
Come on, man. Talk about a candidate for a visit from Captain Obvious.
No really....on a scale of 1 - 10...
How old are you?
Gizmondo_hater @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:36PM
It said in wikipedia Red steel is using Unreal Engine 3.
logikil @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:41PM
This isnt so much a comment on the Wii because i think pretty much everyone knows that the Wii is the low man on the totem pole. My question is now a Ps3 vs Xbox360 question. I'm an Xbox fan, have been since release. Despite owning all the previous gen consoles the Xbox was my favorite. So far that also holds true for the 360 to this point.
So here come all these videos of PS3 graphics.....and they look good. The textures on most of the stuff really do look wonderful. I mean i love me some dead rising and saints row, but the games shown for the Ps3 look pretty great. Now i don't doubt that the 360 is capable of similar stuff, i still believe that what most devs say about the power delta between both is minimal, but i really wish that perhaps MS had not been so quick to have so many shoddy ports released day one.
My question now is that its Kings to MS. Its their turn to bring the heat come X06. I'm guessing that will be where the majority of their announcements..if any...will come from. And as an Xbox fan, they better bring their A game.
Oh back to the Wii....definite must own come this christmas. The PS3....Birthday next year :).
Kirk @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:38PM
I'm sick of all these developer interviews talking about getting this engine or that engine running on the Wii. No kidding...the Wii isn't a technological beast. THAT'S WHAT NINTENDO HAS SAID ALL ALONG! It's not visuals, it's HOW you play the f'n game. I think we all get it by now.
The Wii pushes a new level of immersion, the PS3 and Xbox 360 push graphics to a new level. Why is this even a questionable topic at this point in the game?
Outside of amazing graphics, what can't the Wii do that the other two don't? Okay..now...the reverse...what can't the PS3 or 360 do that the Wii can?
dann @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:38PM
it can "be a distant third in the graphics department" as well as pulling "ahead due to its innovative gameplay" they're not exclusive statements
Gizmondo_hater @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:39PM
oh wait somebody changed it :p
Rgregg @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:40PM
"Epic's Mark Reid"... isn't it Rein?
rockintom99 @ Sep 23rd 2006 1:28AM
Last time I played Unreal 2, which was not too long ago, it was pretty damn good in the graphics department.
nambit @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:51PM
This is all Penis envy. No wonder the amount of women in the videogame scene is so low.
It seems the inflexible giant muscle-bound hulk is being challenged by an average guy that's open to anything that is asked of him.
Kevin @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:50PM
#12, thanks for the spelling catch. I'd been reading it Reid all day, even though I know it's Rein. Doh.
#14, no bias here, I have a Wii on pre-order and am looking forward to playing it!
serbz @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:52PM
@8 and 14
but when they make bias articles about the ps3 and 360 thats alright? is that what your saying? if you hate someone cuz they say 1 lil thing about nintendo than you seriously need help and need to get a life
B-Mo @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:52PM
Yeah, We already know that the Wii is on par/slightly better with the original Xbox. With posts like these I'm almost insulted as a reader. I'm sure every reader of Joystiq could see the screenshots, look at the big picture, and come to the SAME FUCKING CONCLUSION without a post to show 2+2=4. Where's Captain obvious when you need him?
crono141 @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:53PM
bow-chica-bow-wow
jonm @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:05PM
I think as evidenced by the DS versus teh PSP its not about graphics, its about the games. If it was all about power than the xbox would have done better than the ps2 also.
Night Elve @ Sep 22nd 2006 4:57PM
@ 2.
Actually the sky is not blue =P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky
:D
doubtful @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:00PM
Whiny developer. We can't do it because it's too hard. Waaa. It won't run our bloated code and we certainly can't be challenged to come up with new ways of doing things. Evs.
Some developers will get it; some won't; and some will cry repeatedly like little babies.
Nodnetni @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:03PM
some of the funnest games i have everplayed were on the old systems like the NES. In a fight Fun is going to win over just pretty every time.
J B Cougar @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:07PM
"...and some will cry repeatedly like little babies."
Encouraged, no doubt, by blogs that continually post the same stuff over and over again.
Dr_Love @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:06PM
LIEK OMG I THOT TEH WII WUZ GUNA BEE TEHH GRETEST GRAPHEX SISTUM!!11!!1!
/end sarcasm
Old news.
And although I can't exactly say I'm in love with the Wii's graphical capability, its not really a big deal to me, considering I can still pick up a good NES game and have as much or more fun than any "next gen" game currently on the market.
confucious the obnoxious little sh** as told by KilgoreTrout XXLMS @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:07PM
wii's new slogan .. .
size doesn't matter.. . it's how you use it that does .. .
Ben @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:12PM
So what was the reason again why Nintendo made the decision to go with less processing power? Oh yeah, to keep the price down and encourage new audiences to play. Or was it to be more profitable from day one. The $250 price is very close to core 360. $60 controllers are expensive.
That's the reason I don't like Nintendo's approach here. I don't believe that innovation has to come at the cost of processing power. If you do decide to go with the lesser hardware though, at least pass the savings on to the consumer. I can somewhat justify less power if their is a cost savings. On the other hand, I get no benefit because Nintendo becomes profitable from day one.
As for the innovation, I think we should all take a wait and see approach. I have already heard far too many people claim that the gameplay is better many different games simply based on the theory that the controller is automatically better. I understand that folks have played Wii at E3 but until we see how well most of the games hold up over long periods of play time, we really won't know how much better or worse the Wii will be. Of course Zelda will be great because well it's Zelda but I am keeping an open mind on the rest of it.
As for spelling everything with ii. Please stop. It makes it next to impossible to have rational conversation about anything because I know that you will support most everything that Nintendo says or does. Of course it's not just Nintendo. I realize that Sony has there own group of people screaming HDMI, Bluray blah blah blah and of course Microsoft has fanboy aplenty. Anyone in that camp that defends the lack of a hard drive in the cheaper core model falls into this same category.
See by being unbiased, you can hate on everyone.
I have and always will own all systems. When you do that, there is a calming sense of impartiality. I do feel for the pure Nintendo fanboy though as they are looking more and more like the battered wife, making excuses for the abusive husband.
Jeff @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:16PM
"No wonder the amount of women in the videogame scene is so low.
It seems the inflexible giant muscle-bound hulk is being challenged by an average guy that's open to anything that is asked of him."
And which kind of guy do you think gets the most ass?
vidGuy @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:19PM
So something Nintendo's been saying for over a year is news-worthy now that Epic repeats it?
Give me a break. We all know the Wii won't do the uber-graphics of the PS3 and 360. It will, however, be better than the XBOX. How much doesn't really matter.
The Wii will win or lose based on games and gameplay, not graphics. Personally, I'd rather have hundreds of decent looking cars in a game than half a dozen really nice looking ones. I'd rather have a 75+ hour Zelda adventure than the 12 hours I spent on the pretty Prey.
Evan @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:21PM
The Wii's lower graphics capabilities are good because they put a cap on development costs. We are seeing $20M+, multi-year PS3 productions. We all love HD graphics, but the costs and time to produce those games are getting out of hand. The industry is at risk of collapsing under it's own weight.
Richard Mitchell @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:23PM
Obviously, I'm a 360 Fanboy, but I'm very excited for Wii. I am a firm believer of gameplay over graphics but this is going to be a challenge for Nintendo. I actually picked up a copy of Nintendo Power the other day for the first time in years, solely because of my excitement for Wii. Then I opened up the story on Call of Duty 3. Blech. It looks awful. Unfortunately, that's the only evidence we can be given for any game on Wii. Innovative gameplay or control is just hard to sell in print/blogs. Graphics, well, those are naturally a pretty easy sell.
Until this thing finally launches, there just isn't any proof that the graphically underpowered games of Wii are any more fun than Dead Rising or Gears of War or MGS4 or whatever other game you want to name.
Personally, I think they will be lots of fun. If Nintendo can manage to make its hard sell -- Make-up for men, remember -- Wii could be a huge success. I hope it is. Either way, I'm hoping Smash Bros. Brawl will last me until the next console just like Melee before it.
socrates @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:33PM
Hey y'all whining about the repetitive nature of this post - settle down. I didn't know that the Unreal Engine 3 wouldn't run on the Wii. Even wikipedia was wrong on this front. If you've already known this tidbit, well, good for you; it was educational to some.
Nintendo says that fun is more important. I have yet to see a reason why their console provides much in the way of fun. But fortunately come this fall more attention will be placed on actual games, and less on empty console hype.
heemz @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:37PM
I think whats important to remember with this continous and never ending dialog / argument is that in past generations consoles that pushed their graphics engine and the top of priorites, we waiting to see the engine at launch then wait for it to be pushed to its limits in the future of its lifespan. So in a system like the wii, whos focus is on gameplay / controls... we aren't sitting around waiting for the graphics to peak and reach its full potential.. we are waiting to see where gaming goes and what comes out of the controls and new innovating gameplay / games / genres...
arguing apples and oranges almost. :)
Andy @ Sep 24th 2006 9:05PM
Why does it matter if all of a blog's posts are not interesting to you? People need to calm down.
WiiFTW!
Allstar @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:48PM
Has anyone viewed those hideous screenshots from the new Far Cry for the Wii? They're bad. Like worse than N64 bad. Call of Duty 3 for the Wii isn't looking much better. Even Nintendo developed games such as Metroid Prime 3 don't look any better than the versions on the GameCube. I love Nintendo and have bought every console since the SNES on the day it launched. The Wii is the first one I may hold off on. The $249.99 price -- which I think is too high for what is essentially a last-gen console with a next-gen control-system -- coupled with the latest screens released are making me think I'll wait until it drops to the price it should have launched at, $199.99.
Evan @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:47PM
Joystiq should have wrote about Mark Rein's comments about PC gaming, not his bit about the Wii. He said how the majority of PCs have integrated graphics and are not suitible for games. He went on to say how he wished Microsoft would force Aero Glass on consumers, because it would force consumers to buy better video cards!
Yeah, nice guy. If he had his way, he'd make my mother to buy an nVidia 7900 even though she just uses her computer for email.
Ndric @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:49PM
@Ben, Nintendo pretty much profits from every thing they make. It's nothing new.
Wickedneoq @ Sep 22nd 2006 5:52PM
Have we figured out by now that gameplay makes games great, or do we need these constant "next-gen" reminders?
Shaun @ Sep 22nd 2006 6:55PM
yes on both counts. there is no need for the word 'or'.
isaac svensson @ Sep 22nd 2006 7:04PM
i write this hoping that gamers and joystiq employees alike will read this and start to see a different perspective (and create a poll about who cares).
when it comes to graphics (and i speak for myself), i don't care. i couldn't care less about how a game looks. i play a game because it is fun and unique. given, sometimes that is the graphics. but for all intensive reasons- personally, give me a game that is unique and orriginal and FUN, and i will give you my support. this is why nintendo has my support- for thinking outside of the box and trying something NEW.
if i stand alone- then proudly i stand.
my name is isaac, and i'm a graphics whore.
LongshotX @ Sep 22nd 2006 7:10PM
Next Generation don't expect Nintendo to change their strategy with regards to sheer horsepower, and graphical power. I just don't feel like Nintendo can keep up spec-wise. Microsoft and Sony are much larger companies; they can invest more resources into high tech devices within their respective systems.
Before anyone jumps up and yells at me I'm not saying that Nintendo will just give up and stop making consoles. I am only saying Nintendo won't be able to keep up with the two other companies spec-wise. They'll still be competitors but I think they will be pushing more innovation as oppose to the best technology. Just my opinion.
Darth Pixel @ Sep 22nd 2006 7:08PM
"The Wii's lower graphics capabilities are good because they put a cap on development costs."
"Wii is good because it allows Nintendo to make a profit from day 1."
Arguments I don't care about.
What does it do for me?
It's not my duty to teach developers or manufacturers how to make a profit.
jonAgain @ Sep 22nd 2006 7:12PM
He's just trying to make unreal 3 seem like a God engine that only the most powerful systems can run. That isn’t a good thing btw.
I don’t see why I can’t develop on U3 and then scale things like poly count and texture resolution for platforms like the Wii.
me @ Sep 22nd 2006 7:25PM
ideally, none of us would sacrifice neither graphics or gameplay. does the wii really give better gameplay though--to be more accurate it gives an alternative. it does provide a unique, populist potential however how wide a demographic will this really reach remains to be seen. by giving up an arguably perfect, established game controlling scheme (gamepad) that has become the universal standard and template for nearly all console gaming genres for a new controlling scheme that sacrifices so much only to gain some new (and sometimes unintuitive) controlling option is a risky endeavor. wii sports appears very intuitive but other games like Madden and other game actions that don't have an immediately logical body motion to correlate with the in-game action will render gameplay very unintuitive--and thus antithetical to the nintendo aim to augment the gaming audience demographic. i think wii games will be split starkly between those 2 areas: those with intuitive controls and those without. but what remains true is a few generations worth of game controlling possibilities have been completely dropped. all that depth (and convinience) that a gamepad offers will be replaced with the limited but new gameplay potential of a wiimote. i think it's about sacrifices. some will find the alternative gimmicky and shallow, some may be willing to accept it. i'm hesistant but willing to give it a try.
James @ Sep 22nd 2006 7:30PM
HOLY SHIT JOYSTIQ!
Please report newsworthy things! Seriously anymore of these stories to bulk up out main page with new stuff and i shall be removing you guys from my favorites list.
Duscrom @ Sep 25th 2006 3:33PM
30. The Wii's lower graphics capabilities are good because they put a cap on development costs. We are seeing $20M+, multi-year PS3 productions. We all love HD graphics, but the costs and time to produce those games are getting out of hand. The industry is at risk of collapsing under it's own weight.
Beautiful misconception. Nothing puts a cap on developer costs, but a developer. You are still limiting a devolper's vision. What they CAN do.
What can the 360/ps3 do that the Wii Cant? Dead Rising, Lost Planet, N3, Lost Oydessy, Geomoetry Wars, Fight Night Round 3. Remember, New tech isn't just about bigger textures or higher poly counts. It's also about more interactive objects in a level, more enemies with sharper AI, Physic simulation, Character Customization. And finally Artistic Freedom.
So what can the Wii do that ps3/360 cant do? Mario/Zelda/ and metroid games. Because MS/Sony can always release a motion sensitive add on. Granted, that's only in theory.
But i'm with alot of people. Certain points
Graphics or Gameplay=Why the need for "or"
Wii will have more fun games= Proof? I dunno guys, I'm have a lot of Fun on the 360. I don't think Fun has signed an exclusive deal with Nintendo. I think all 3 have equal chances at this "fun" thing.
Wii has one thing though.... curiosity... I'm very curious.
Wulkar @ Sep 22nd 2006 8:16PM
its not about graphics its about fun. and i think the Wii will be tons of fun.
Ben @ Sep 22nd 2006 8:17PM
The Wii may turn out to have the greatest gameplay in the world. This is a best case scenario. If that happens, which of the following is more likely to happen in the future?
A) Sony and Microsoft attempt to emulate the Wii's unique control interface while maintaining cutting edge graphics and processing power
B) Nintendo closes the gap between themselves and Microsoft/Sony in the processing power and graphics arena while cutting profit to subsidize hardware costs
See this is where the strategy can backfire. If this new control interface truly is a revolution, other companies will adapt. In that case, it will no longer be a unique trait of the Wii. Nintendo will once again have the credit for being the agent of change but how much will that be worth if they end falling behind again.
Nintendo has always innovated. They have always been profitable. Still the bulk of their fortune lies in the handheld market. The Wii is an interesting departure. Folks are more willing to try it because it does offer something new and potentially better. Only time will tell if it is truly better though.
Personally, I wish they would have innovated while still maintaining specs close to the PS3 and 360. Again, I receive nothing for Nintendo being profitable from day one. When I hear them talking about the profit issue, I actually get pissed off. Rather than lining your pockets from day one, how about including an extra controller.
Zell @ Sep 22nd 2006 8:35PM
I know I'm in the minority when I say I honestly do not care. Slightly better graphics than the Game Cube work for me with the innovative controller. I don't see myself getting bored after a couple hours of flailing my arms about playing games on the Wii.
I honestly don't think Nintendo is too concerned with people who ARE all about seeing every pock mark on their character's face, but those who see the potential of the system. I say this having a couple close friends who are very interested in the Wii even though they are not gamers. From what I've seen already I think the games look great so far. Twilight Princess, a game I plan on picking up launch day with the Wii, looks great AND fun. I have no doubt it will be even a bit more polished on its release.
Can't shake this feeling that people will end up eating their words and choking a bit as they did with the DS. Nintendo was doomed doomed DOOMED before the DS was released. The "gimmicky, kiddie system with bad graphics" was not expected to sell, according to many (especially readers here).
I think 'gamers' often fall into a habit feeling they know everything and know what will and won't sell. They forget about the people out there who wouldn't mind playing video games but find it intimidating. They forget about the people who just want to pick something up that's light and play for a half hour before heading out. They forget that these people often don't care whether or not they can see the individual nose hairs of the character.