no true HD then?

I read this the other day, and it's pretty disappointing. Not too many TVs have VGA connectors, and without them this upgrade is very limited. I was looking forward to having my regular DVDs upscaled along with the gaming enhancements.

Oh well, I guess when I drop a few thousand on my next TV, I'll make sure it supports VGA. :)

not bad at all. definately points to the non-need of HDMI. looks like i'll be picking up a VGA cable soon.

also, I picked up the VGA cable the other day. it certainly makes a big difference.

sure, it's "true HD"... it simply requires the VGA cable. it's going to disappoint a lot of people, but it's not unexpected. and I do expect something official will come down soon about this. I'm sure Microsoft have something more planned, seeing as the 360 is already upscaling over VGA prior to the fall update. this "insider" info isn't worth two cents-- why would this be all there is to it if he's just clarifying a months-old spring update? other sources have said to wait and see, and that more info would be forthcoming but it wouldn't involve HDMI.

If only they would release a DVI cable, as my HDTV has DVI but not VGA. Ironic, considering DVI is actually "better" (true digital instead of a converted analog signal), but alas...

It's a good job I have a HD LCD and a VGA cable already then! :D

This post will be totally irrevalent (sp?) to this article but ...

GOD, i hate this new buzz word "True HD"

... in a few years time, one day the screen resolution will get even larger .. then THAT becomes 'True HD' ... and current HD becomes....errr ... false-HD? .. untrue-HD?

... YEAH, its early in the morning..im grumpy! (>__

Normal DVDs will play at 480p. CSS prevents anything higher (though some upscaling DVD players conveniently ignore it).

So, lets say you put in a normal DVD into the HD-DVD player addon. Will it upscale then?

DVDs are already upscaled with a VGA cable. 2405WFP DVD goodness FTW!

I sure wish Microsoft would just release a HDMI cable already. They have been tip-toeing around this issue for forever. I know video quality wise that the HDMI isn't much over a good component, but all the copyright protection stuff has to have HDMI to play the very best in native and upscaled content. And how many newer HDTVs actually have VGA anyway? It's more for PC monitors than anything.

I wonder if it has to do with the Xbox 360 not being able to output a HDMI signal. I hope not, but you'd think with all the bitching and moaning over a HDMI cable, Microsoft would have already put one out. I'm still crossing my fingers that they'll release one sometime as some sort of "big announcement."

@9

No, not with out HDMI (or VGA). This is a limitation imposed by CSS.

You can get VGA-DVI adaptors can you not, for like $5? Correct me if I'm wrong here. You aren't getting DVI, but it'll get you 1080p at least.

Just so everybody can stop freaking out, you can buy VGA to DVI adapter, and yes, in that order

http://sewelldirect.com/DVIAMTOVGAF.asp

$10

Just hope that the HD-DVD player will up-scale them for us.

Why is this MS's problem? All of this applies to all video playback devices, including PS3. PS3 has HDMI you say? Does your TV? Less than 1% of HDTV's sold have HDMI and support 1080P, which is the only time HDMI makes a difference.

At TGS, Sony confirmed what their PS3 website has listed for a long time. "HD output requires an HDTV and HD cables, both sold seperately". They also go on to explain that ICT enabled discs MUST use HDMI, but we already knew that.

Since PS3 won't come with HDMI or Component cables, I see the cost of Sony's proprietary PS3 component cable more of a worry. If my HDTV accepted HDMI, I could just grab a good HDMI cable for $20. Since PS3 has no component outputs, it will need a gang hookup like the one that comes in the premium pack. How much?

I switched from component to vga about a month ago, and ive noticed a much nicer res, but big difference in colour. No matter how many settings i mess with things look more colourfull in component. any ideas?

Make that last sentence..

Since PS3 has no component outputs, it will need a gang hookup like the one that comes in the Xbox 360 premium pack. How much?

xbox360 can't output a digital signal, which is why they can't release an hdmi cable and why a vga to dvi adapter will NOT work (It only changes the connector, the device still has to be able to output the digital signal). It doesn't really matter that much, most everything is still 780p/1080i for which analog is just as good as digital. Besides, please people, I beg you not to buy into this hdcp bs(HD-DVD/bluray I'm looking at you). It's just sending a signal to hollywood and the tech companies that it's fine to force overbearing DRM down our throats.

Most good HDTVs have a VGA/RGB connector. I highly recommend using the VGA-HD cable instead of the component cables if you have such a connection. The difference is clear, especially with upscaled DVDs.

"If your 360 is hooked up via VGA cable:
HD-DVDs, Upscaled DVDs and games can all display at 1080p with no copyright hassles."

So does that mean even in the future when movie companies decide to enforce that token that blocks out non-HDMI connections?

it is only a matter of time before Microsoft give in and release a version of the 360 without HDMI. They were wrong to ignore it not only once with the launch, but with the HD-DVD. Its probably the one area where Sony has a huge advantage over MS; the know HDMI is THE HD connection and now every model will support it, because they realise releasing a console without HDMI support would be like releasing the PS2 without SCART support. MS will still argue this until they are blue in the face, or until 2007 when their new internal HD-DVD, HDMI compliant version of the 360 drops ;)

"automagically"

Brilliant.

Isn't 1080p over component cables limited to only 30 fps?

"it is only a matter of time before Microsoft give in and release a version of the 360 without HDMI." - Eric

Yes, I think it was sometime last November. I'm kidding, I know what you meant. I agree, we're very likely to see a 'MediaCenter 360' with the HD-DVD drive built-in, HDMI, a larger HDD, and I predict, a new glossy black faceplate/case, to offset the chrome, PS3-style. With the 'Halo' movie on HD-DVD.

Zero, I don't think most modern HDTVs have VGA any longer; while all have componant, s-video, composite, they also normally have the 'flavor of the year' connection - mine is a year old, and hence has DVI, which replaced VGA imput on most sets - in turn, DVI is almost entirely replaced by HDMI on the latest sets.

I'm not sure you can use those $6 adaptors from NewEgg or wherever to convert a DVI input to a VGA input, but I guess that's not too much of an investment to prohibit trying it...

I find it absolutely rediculous that Microsoft has neglected to support HDMI or DVI. Very very few TVs support 1080p over Component video. It just wan't designed for huge bandwidth like that. Once you get to a progressive 1920x1080 signal, you really ought to be using digital data transfer.

Even were it not for 1080p, I still find it inexcusable the Microsoft refuses to allow digital output from the Xbox 360. I though this was a next-generation "HD era" console. I live in a home with a very odd static field that causes a lot of analog connections to show some nasty static. A HDMI cable or DVI cable would fix that for me.

The other issue with the VGA cable is it has issues with some games and proper color output. A real letdown.

I'm no Sony fanboy, but included HDMI support really was the way to go. Especially since I can grab a high-quality gold plated HDMI cable for $20. Things are cheap to produce and thanks to them being digital fully capable of holding a perfect signal.

The $10 "VGA to DVI" adapter will not work. It lets you hook up a VGA monitor to a DVI-A video card socket.

Basically on computers the DVI port can output an analog signal that a VGA cable can transmit to a VGA monitor. Your nice new TV isn't going to know what the "heck" if you somehow cram a VGA signal into its DVI/HDMI port.

John Iburg,
That is a DVI-A to vga adapter. All most all tv's that have DVI, use DVI-D, which won't work with DVI-A.

So...

In short, VGA is the way to go. It will upscale, as well as run 1080p? It bypasses any settings by the CSS or AACS, correct? My guess is that's why TV's don't support it. It's the ultimate solution that lets you bypass any digital encryption. Then again, I'm assuming there are decoder boxes you can buy for $100 or less for digital signals. Anyone know on that topic?

Also then, I'm assuming with the ultimate power of VGA cables, that the PS3 doesn't support it?

As far as specific component cables for the PS3, I know you can buy a gold plated component cable set for the PS2 for like $10 on ebay after shipping. I'm guessing you'll be able to do the same with the PS3. Not a huge deal.

Don't know about the HDMI...

I thought VGA was considered analog, just like component therefore would not work on HD-DVDs. This is an interesting turn of events. I wonder how Micrsoft is getting around the HDCP/AACS rules.

So Xbox360 Second Rate Attempt at Being PS3...

What exactly has Xbox360 done to earn so much attention...

So it seems as if MS should of bundled the VGA cable with the premium 360 instead of the component cable. Doh!!

i guess ps3 is the only true hd console tooo bad for ms

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. The bottom line is that the difference between standard def. and 720p/1080i is remarkable, but the difference between 720p/1080i and 1080p is not as noticeable to the average person.

Once again too bad MS won't be developing any 1080p game titles.

Sony has five 1080p playable games on the show floor at TGS right now!

I guess MS underestimated Sony and what the PS3 could do... to bad for them.

Question about the ps3...Will it be able to upscale regular dvds?

It's quite possible that with future hacks to the x360 it may be able to upscale dvd's through the component cables.

remember, the original xbox was a progressive scan dvd player once you hacked it.

So it wont upscale my regular DVD's. It doesnt support any games in native 1080p besides XBLA games so far (which is useless, has anyone played frogger...takes a 1/4 of my screen in 720p). HD-DVD movies will still be 1080i. Too bad my TV does not have a VGA input or this would be slightly more interesting. It seems like it is not as much what Microsoft is doing right with 360 but what Sony is haphazardly doing wrong with PS3.

OK, I have an HDTV with an unused VGA input. I'm slightly confused by this... So if I were to continue with my 360 going through component, DVD's would not upscale after the update? And if I were to buy the VGA cables, it would? I just want to clarify, because for $40, I would definitely get them just to upscale my DVD collection. And while I plan on getting the HD-DVD add-on down the road, the internal DVD drive will upscale over VGA post-update, right?

Well, my HDTV has two component, 1 DVI, 1 VGA (RGB), and then all the older inputs (S-Video, Composite, Coaxial).

If you don't have VGA, you can get an adapter. They work just fine. No, the signal won't be digital, but the quality will be NO DIFFERENT.

And NO, component doesn't limit the frame rate of the signal. Quality-wise, it's fricking identical.

I don't care either way. My TV doesn't do 1080p. My monitor doesn't do 1080p. It's a moot point for most people.

@ Dracula Jones:

DVDs are upscaled over VGA *right now* - you don't have to wait for an update. In fact, the 360 is better at upscaling DVDs than my dedicated upscaling DVD player (Toshiba).

"Oh well, I guess when I drop a few thousand on my next TV, I'll make sure it supports VGA. :)"

Well i dont know about you but i bought a widescreen LCD toshiba about a month before the 360 launch in Europe for £400 that supports VGA, component, scart and s-video with a native resolution higher than 720p. OK so its not "true" HD but consider this, what resolutions do PC monitors currently max out at, and at what size. I know of at least one that does 2560 x 1600 at 30 inch (276mm) widescreen. Does that constitute uber HD or are they going to give it the same "true" HD tag in a few years time when monitor can reach a 5120 x 3200 res.

[sorry if there is any spelling mistakes, its 2:15 am here and im just returning from a day of hard drinking, suffice to say if i can burn you with facts when im this drunk your in need of a good session of technological updating]

ZeroCorpse,
The cheap adapter is for dvi-a to vga only. This is what video cards use.
HDTV's use DVI-D. It will not work just fine, because they are different and incompatible with each other.
It will set you back a couple hundred dollars to get a DVI-D to VGA converter box.
It is not possible to just get a cheap adapter to convert a digital signal to analog.

I hate the AACS, my soon to be SXRD only accepts 1080p via Component and HDMI. Bastards.

John, your soon to be SXRD only accepts 1080p via HDMI. The component inputs only go up to 1080i. This is true of almost all HDTVs, and it's true of the Sony SXRDs.

The VGA input on the SXRDs is also crippled, like those on most HDTVs. Specs vary, but most max out at 1024x768 or 1366x768, just like the SXRD does.

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/documents/specifications/KDSA2000.pdf#search=%2260a2000%20manual%22

I mentioned all this info over and over on many boards. The DVD CCA and their buddies, the AACS group really screw you if you want to use anything but DVI or HDMI with HDCP. This is why the 360 suddenly lost the ability to upscale DVDs over component just before ship.

This MS announcement was hollow. It's hollow because of the DVD CCA, it's hollow because most TVs cannot accept 1080p over componet, and it's hollow because as MS correctly pointed out earlier this year, 1080p isn't needed for movies anyway, as they are 24fps.

MS is taking advantage of people's lack of understanding of HDTV. Their FUD worked on almost everyone.

And one more thing I forgot.

If the HD-DVD you are playing has the image constraint flag set, you cannot output the HD-DVD content over component (or non-HDCP encoded DVI/HDMI) at a resolution higher than 720x480. It will have to be downrezzed!

No content providers set this flag yet, and several (including Sony) have agreed not to use it until 2012 at the earliest.

But here's the short version. If you want to output full rez all the time, you have to use HDMI or DVI with HDCP or VGA. And most TVs will not accept full rez over component or VGA, so that really means you need to use HDMI or DVI with HDCP.

Sony knew this. And Microsoft knew this. Sony took it into account and designed a device that would be suitable for playing HD content (movies). Microsoft didn't.

Microsoft dropped the ball on this a long time ago, and they knew it. But they tried to have it both ways, pretending they could deliver something they couldn't. They cannot deliver HD content to most people in 1080P from 360 and they cannot deliver true 1080P games either (yet).

Sony deserves some credit here for actually knowing how to deliver 1080P to the customer. Every PS3 customer.

From the moment the HD-DVD drive was announced, I have been certain that the 360 will get an HDMI port at some time, precisely because of the issues brought up here.

All these requirements by the DVD CCA and AACS are arbitrary, and I wish they would relax them for everyone. But they are clearly defined and MS can't really explain away being trapped by them and then acting is if they were not.

To those above, there is no quality difference at any resolution the 360 currently supports between component and VGA. And the 360 DVD upscaling is nothing special at all, your TV can do just as well. So if buying the VGA cable made a big different for you, then your TV has a poor quality component input.

Actually a few Arcade titles run TODAY natively at 1080i (thus, 1080p after the Winter update):

1. Astropop
2. Feeding Frenzy
3. Frogger
4. Gauntlet
5. Geometry Wars
6. Hexic HD
7. Joust
8. Outpost Kaloki X
9. Robotron: 2084
10. Texas Hold 'Em
11. Uno
11. Wik: Fable of Souls
12. Zuma Deluxe

That's 12 of the 32 Live Arcade titles currently available.

Your 1080p TV will take the 1080i signal and de-interlace it to a perfect 1080p picture.

So when using component cables your 360 games will be upscaled to 1080p. Native 1080p games will be displayed at 1080p no upscale required.

HD-DVD will be transmitted at 1080i and your 1080p TV will de-interlace to a perfect 1080p picture.

Normal DVDs will be transmitted at 480p. Your 1080p TV will upscale to 1080p.

VGA and Component will look exactly the same.

ok....and how many HDTV's will be connected to HD signals (vid games, satellites, etc) using composite or s-video? Morons.