Jack Thompson becomes boring
Thank whatever deity you may believe in for Jack Thompson who has filed a $600 million lawsuit on behalf of family members for three people killed by a 14-year-old, because it could be worse. More on that in a second.Jack's back and this time he's sued Sony of America, Take-Two and subsidiary, Rockstar Games of hatching a "civil conspiracy" in regards to Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. Thompson says that the companies should have known the game "would spawn such copycat violence." Yes, because the logic train clearly runs along the track that video game makers see a clear benefit in creating murder simulators for kids to train on. Oh wait, the game is rated M, what's a 14-year-old doing with GTA in the first place -- where are the parents?
Whatever to Jack Thompson. Once again, thank whatever deity -- or lack of one -- you may believe in for Jack Thompson. Given that we know what the man is really after, absolutely none of this is going to matter in the end. $600 million? Should have just gone for $6 billion, it's all just a wonderful publicity stunt, with the murder victims and their families merely pawns. Imagine if there was actually a sane Jack Thompson -- then the industry would really have something to worry about.
See also a smattering of previous Jack tales:
- G4, Jack Thompson yell at each other
- Penny Arcade donates $10,000 in Jack's name to charity
- Flowers for Jack
- Jack Thompson: Sony committing "Pearl Harbor 2"
[Thanks Daniel]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Player1 @ Sep 27th 2006 12:35PM
Just in case Jack is reading this, I'd like to ask him what it's like to profit from these killings since he's the only one who actually does.
OtakuCODE @ Sep 27th 2006 12:37PM
Jack, you nutcase. Care to explain why it is, in your view, that videogames are harmful when books, plays, radio shows, dancing, singing, painting, and every other creative activity in the history of mankind have been attacked in exactly the same way, using exactly the same reasoning, by exactly the same kind of people as you all throughout history... and never have any of them been shown to cause any harm?
Alexander Sliwinski: Don't fall into their trap. Game ratings are irrelevant. The game is not to fault not because it was rated above the kids age, but because videogames do not drive people to commit violent acts. Period. Do not simply concede this point because you think people like Jack will go away if a stringent rating system is in place. Jack will not leave the scene until every penny that can be wrung from the game industry has been acquired, freedom of expression be damned.
mykie @ Sep 27th 2006 12:44PM
one Hundred BILLION DOLLARS!!! HUAAAAhahahahahahaa ha ha ha
Martin @ Sep 27th 2006 12:46PM
First off. I wouldn't be surprised if Jack was hanging out at videogame stores, following 14 year old boys who buy GTA home, and then telling the kid to kill their parents before the kid can even play the game. His income is at risk you know.
Second. Say goodbye to Joystiq. Knowing Jack, he will try to file some crazy lawsuit against them. Probably saying you are harassing him, and then you will be tied up in legal battles for so long, the PS3 will be released in Europe.
Pyrocy @ Sep 27th 2006 12:47PM
Awesome, Joystiq is baiting Jay Tee so we can see more loony "IMMEDIATE NEWS RELEASE" press releases and get more scoop on the N.M. shootings from the King Of Narcissists himself.
*Watches comments section*
Russell @ Sep 27th 2006 12:49PM
That was a great article that you guys linked to.
Derbeste @ Sep 27th 2006 12:55PM
"Jack Thompson becomes boring"
So by posting the article you just called yourselves boring.
j/k ;)
Wideruled @ Sep 27th 2006 1:15PM
As a resident of New Mexico i am pretty familiar with the tragic case that the story mentioned. If you want to decide for yourselvs let me find some links:
http://www.courttv.com/trials/posey/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cody_Posey
This was a very tragic case for all involved and it is morally reprehensible for this greedy little man to make this family relive their pain so he can try to prove a point.
He was interviewed by our local radio station yesterday and unfourtanetly i missed the broadcast. I sent an email to the host as i heard his thoughts on the whole argument before he talked with jack. The host is an older conservative type and he is on our side. He agrees that this is just another way for parents to not take responsibility for their actions. He agreed with me when i told him that its the parents responsibility to help the child differentiate right from wrong and reality from fantasy.
Again my heart goes out to the family that is being manipulated by a greedy man. I feel for them because they will get nothing from this other than pain. No money, no publicity, no closure.
HotShotX @ Sep 27th 2006 1:21PM
At this point in the game, you have to wonder whether these people actually RESEARCH the lawyer representing them anymore.
As far as I can gather, Jack Thompson + Murder Case + Video Games = Lots of publicity for Jack + No results for victims.
~HotShotX
NETNAVI @ Sep 27th 2006 1:23PM
Look all this blaming crap on crap has got to stop!!! I say they should change the laws and make everyone an adult at age 12! That way whenever someone does some stupid shit then they are responsible for their own actions!!!
No scapegoats or shifting the blame on someone else! No! If you don't know right from wrong at that age then that is sad! Be responsible for your own actions and stop blaming everyone else!
...oh but then there wouldn't be a need for idiots like Jack Thompson now would there?
TRUTH @ Sep 27th 2006 1:50PM
Why blame video games for this? Its easy to tell that the kids that committed these murders were F**ked Up in the head.
This would be like suing a car company because their vehical was used in a drive by. F**king Stupid People! Its all about the money.
Humans have always been violent and aggressive towards each other. People still committed murders when there was no Playtation or GTA. Did video games cause WW1 & WW2?
Violents is inevitable. A mentally retarted kid that doesn't know the difference between right and wrong will still act violent because it is instinctive. We are hard wired for aggression and dominance. If you want to blame something then blame human nature!
GlitchCog @ Sep 27th 2006 1:51PM
Jack's right... video games, as art, can inspire people to kill. So can books, movies and paintings. There's nothing wrong with that.
Welcome to the real world where things aren't safe. Your kid could be murdered while he's at school today, or he could live another 30 years before the fat you feed him stops his beating heart. Stop being a pussy about it, and let me play the video games I enjoy.
Pixelantes Anonymous @ Sep 27th 2006 1:57PM
Jack must've missed the part of this case where the boy's father burned him with a welding iron after the boy refused to have sex with his step-mom when the father "insisted" that he did. That surely was nothing compared to the boy playing GTA4 once or twice.
I could kinda buy the argument that in the absence of any other evidence, ultra-violent video games might influence someone to do something boneheaded, but when your dad burns you and forces you to have sex with your step-mom, I don't think it was the video games that made him do it.
It boggles my mind that Jack Thompson or the greedy asses that hired him could believe anyone is going to take them seriously.
OtakuCODE @ Sep 27th 2006 2:01PM
NETNAVI: A few hundred years ago, there was no distinction between child and adult. Children were seen as smaller and dumber, but essentially the same as adults. This was when most people lived in subsistence farming situations and kids went to work at 3 or 4 helping the family surive.
Things got more comfortable after that and kids weren't needed, so the view of children changed. Kids were viewed as being carefree and fundamentally different until about age 12 or 13. At that age, they were expected to get a job and help support the family and shortly start a family of their own. They mostly worked in factories where their increased dexterity and strength made them much better workers than children were.
Once factories started slowing down in their economic dominance of the country, the big companies started producing more and more complex goods. As a result, teenagers weren't as useful. They needed to be educated and trained for the more complex jobs. So, society created the concept of the adolescent. It did not exist before this time. The adolescent was viewed as more than a child, but still not yet an adult.
Once they received their education, they started into work as soon as they could, and started a family at the same time, etc. Society continues to move on. Now, college education is all but required to get along and hold a good job with a company today. So society is trying to delay adulthood even longer. Because of the way society has tied so many concepts to adulthood (drinking, sex, violence, strong relationships), this is causing problems. Biology will not bend to the will of society, and even though society doesn't want 12 and 13 year olds starting their own families, simply making it socially unacceptable does not make the biological part of the sexual drive go away. I think we're dealing with it very poorly, being as most people simply either deny it exists, or they blame outbursts caused by the oppression of the young on things like videogames.
We've got a long way to go, and Jack does more damage to the human race every time he opens his crazy mouth.
White Black Guy @ Sep 27th 2006 2:03PM
TRUTH has got a point.
"Humans have always been violent and aggressive towards each other. People still committed murders when there was no Playtation or GTA. Did video games cause WW1 & WW2?"
"Violents is inevitable. A mentally retarted kid that doesn't know the difference between right and wrong will still act violent because it is instinctive. We are hard wired for aggression and dominance. If you want to blame something then blame human nature!"
TRUTH @ Sep 27th 2006 2:09PM
@ OtakuCODE
Exactly! The human race is evolving to be more independent & smarter younger.
OtakuCODE @ Sep 27th 2006 2:35PM
TRUTH: I don't think its a matter of evolution, although puberty is starting earlier and earlier with each generation (personally I believe this is a natural balancing effect caused by our society pushing childbearing age to later and later), it's really just a matter of how society deals with a situation that has always been there.
Yes, aggression is a human attribute, but there is far more evidence that humanity is not meant to rely upon their aggression in their interactions with the world. Consider the question of have we evolved to deal with the world by physical force? It should be obvious that this is not the case. We don't run very fast. We don't have claws or fangs. We are extremely weak for our size. The only advantage we have to survive is our intellect. Any system of governing must acknowledge this natural law.
So what should be done about the kids? They're developing characteristics that we have commonly defined as 'adult' for a long period of time in our society. Simply put, society has to change. We need to acknowledge that adolescents have strong emotions, form strong relationships with other people, have strong sex drives, have aggressive tendencies, have a desire to be productive, have a desire to become capable and independent, are able to be socially responsible for their own actions, etc. We don't have to cut loose and let kids drop out of school and get a house and start their own family at 12. If we ackowledge these drives and teach them how to deal with them responsibly (NOT denial of them, that is a sure fire road to disaster!) they will be able to be more productive, responsible, and effective members of our society.
FlamingMoe @ Sep 27th 2006 2:49PM
I'm surprised no one has stopped to think that might be something wrong with the judicial system as a whole. In a system in which attorneys are paid in a percentage of the total settlement, there are bound to be a certain amout of people with a lot more interest in the amount of the settlement, than the case itself.
I mean; you have a situation where people have been put through a great deal of suffering and emotional trauma. They need to be felt sorry for. But how have they earned $600 million dollars? Sure, cut 'em som slack, but $600 million?
Now, what do you think Jacko is in it for? The rightful claims of the families of these victims, or a nice, big, fat 10% of those $600 million?
Nice system you guys got there...
OtakuCODE @ Sep 27th 2006 2:56PM
FlamingMoe: You are right in your criticisms of the judicial system, it certainly has flaws. The $600 million, however, is a punitive figure. Its purpose is not to show that the family suffered $600 million in damages, or that they 'earned' the money in any way. It is a figure simply meant as a punishment to the company. This is to prevent things like companies figuring 'hey, we'll make 400 million on this product, it will probably kill 20 people, but that's only 1 million per person in direct damages, so... 380 million still left! Let's go for it!' and such.
But 10%? Whoa. I think you are completely uninformed on the cut that attorneys get in cases like this. Think more around 90%.
Moogle @ Sep 27th 2006 3:34PM
Just pointing out, one of whack-Jacko's points is that it's not *your* kids that are the problem, but other peoples kids who you have no authority to be a good parent to. Then the existance of M games that aren't illegal for kids to posses means that your kids are in danger because someone, somewhere, is being taught how to effectively kill.
This chain of logic doesn't necessarily follow, and underage violence rates have been dropping steadily. Videogames like GTA are not really going to be realistic training that would help a would-be killer anyway, certainly no more so than a movie or book.
It should also be noted that the Columbine kids were practiced in hunting with real guns. Many kids play paintball or airsoft. Those are much more realistic training but I don't hear much hand-waving-freak-outery about them.
Jack's arguments really DO make sense, if you happen to be an over-protective neurotic parent. That's really the audience Jack's interested in swaying.
John @ Sep 27th 2006 3:47PM
Is Jack Thompson really the only one who profits? Thats scary. Instead of trying to work to resolve violence in video games, his approach is to end it any means necessary. Can't we all just get along?
OtakuCODE @ Sep 27th 2006 3:59PM
Moogle: No, the argument don't make sense in any framework. You say Jack argues that it's not 'your' kids but all the others you're not parenting that are the problem? Caused by what? By games influencing them to be violent. That doesn't happen. It is illogical, and just because parents that can't distinguish between reality and a game accept it, does not make it true. For it to be true, it has to correspond with reality, and it most certainly does not.
Jack takes advantage of parents who can't be bothered to educate themselves, but feel a strong need to be scared as much as possible. That's a huge number of parents nowadays. The idea of being content and confident in their parenting abilities and proud of their childs independence and strength of mind scares the daylights out of them. They cast around for any excuse to be afraid. In the past, every form of creative expression has been a scapegoat. Books would make kids soft and unable to work, music would make them lazy, dancing would make them horny, plays would make them overly dramatic and unable to deal with the real world, etc. Not once, not a single time in all of history, has the argument that creative representation of an idea leads to that idea becoming reality, been right.
Mark Standridge @ Sep 27th 2006 4:54PM
As a fellow New Mexico resident, as well as a newly-licensed attorney here in Albuquerque, I wholeheartedly concur with what Wideruled posted above at #8, regarding what a terrible tragedy the Cody Posey case was for this state.
For various reasons, I'm keeping my comments on this litigation, here at Joystiq and elsewhere, reserved for the time being--I will say this, however: Gary Mitchell is an excellent defense attorney, and I place a great deal of stock in his belief the "GTA made me do it" defense was in fact unmeritorious, despite what any other attorney would say (or has said, as it were).
With regard to the attorney-percentage comments above: it's been my experience that most contingent fees are calculated at 33% of the total recovery, plus costs (court filing fees, deposition costs, etc.). That fee has to be split among all lawyers actually working on the case (i.e. it's not 33% for one lawyer, 33% for the other, and the rest for the client). Personally, I think it would be a complete surprise to see a New Mexico court--assuming the case reaches trial at all--award a $600M verdict in a case like this.
Edge of Blade @ Sep 27th 2006 5:44PM
$600 Million...or 1 Million PS3s...more than we will see by the end of the year. Just putting in perspective how much he is asking.
otakucode @ Sep 27th 2006 5:47PM
Mark Standridge: That "plus costs" bit is what usually prevents the 'victim' in these big trial cases from getting anything worthwhile. Court costs through the roof, lawyer fees in the stratosphere (does anyone know what Jack charges? $250/hr? $500/hr? He's so morally involved in these cases, it might be $1000/hr to get him that worked up).
Mark Standridge @ Sep 27th 2006 6:26PM
otakucode: I wouldn't necessarily disagree that this happens in some (if not alot) of cases. I would point out, however, that attorney's fees are conceptually different from "costs." Costs encompass things like court filing fees, payments to expert witnesses for testimony, costs of taking depositions, copies, postage, etc. Attorneys make their fees by charging either hourly rates for hours actually worked (and that can, under ethics rules, be billed), or by agreeing to roll the dice on a 1/3 contingent fee. I beleive there are ethics caps on what attorneys can charge per hour; I know here in Albuquerque, highly experienced trial attorneys who practice in federal court usually hit charge about $250 an hour; I think our courts would look with disfavor upon higher hourly rates.
Snapp @ Sep 27th 2006 7:00PM
Watch for a response from JT in a totally non related thread...dumbass
Richard @ Sep 27th 2006 10:16PM
I want my 600million because I got violent after I played chess. Knocking over a pawn with a rook can be so violent sometimes.
Armaina @ Sep 28th 2006 3:38AM
"Where are the Parents?"
My gosh, it angers me so much that no one looks to the parents in this issue! If your child has violent tendencies, you DON'T fuel it. Children that have a bad perception of reality (such as pre-exsiting mental problems..) shouldn't be allowed to play such games, and it's up to the parents to make sure thier children don't get the wrong kind of influences. The kids can't buy the games themselves, Parents are the responsible ones in this factor. And/Or if the child borrows the game from a friend, parents should be monitoring their child's gameplaying in the first place.
I'm getting sick and tired of all these problems with kids, not just with games, caused by the fact that parents hardly seem to monitor them and just let them do whatever. It's just so easy to blame something else than take responsibilty for it... And it's sad that it -is- so easy to pass the blame on. Case in point.
I hope the defense attornies are really good...
Seriously, suing these companies for the crimes makes about as much sense as suing pronography industries for any sex crime. (hate to sound a bit vulgar but I think you know what I mean)
jack thompson @ Sep 28th 2006 4:37AM
As Joystiq repeatedly proves, the truth seems "boring" when you're liars, because the truth is such an inconvenience. Justice, on the other hand, blesses the soul. You all wouldn't understand. You're chronic pixelante robots. But try to enjoy the below real news anyway. This is how real journalists report and write. Hooah! Jack Thompson:
Families claim game warped Posey's mind
Florida attorney says prosecutor Sandra Grisham suggested they file the lawsuit
Alamogordo Daily News
By Dianne Stallings, For the Daily News
Alamogordo Daily News
Relatives of Cody Posey, who was convicted at the age of 15 of killing three family members in 2004 on the ranch of television newsman Sam Donaldson in Lincoln County, filed a $600 million wrongful death lawsuit Monday against a video game manufacturer.
Jack Thompson, a Miami attorney who is waging a legal and legislative battle against violent video games he contends "train" young minds to kill, is co-counsel on the case. Attorney Steven K. Sanders, a former assistant district attorney in the counties of Lincoln and Otero is the lead attorney.
They contend in the suit that the game "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City" was among the factors that led to the triple murder.
The attorneys filed suit in 2nd Judicial District Court in Bernalillo County, because Cody Posey, convicted of shooting his father, his stepmother and stepsister, is incarcerated there and Sanders is based there, Thompson said Tuesday.
"It's important to point out that no one 9 certainly not my clients or (prosecutor) Sandy Grisham, is saying Cody is not responsible for the crimes," the attorney said. "We're saying they trained him how to kill and honed his appetite. This is not an isolated incident."
Thompson was referring to a case in Fayette County, Ala., where two police officers and a dispatcher were murdered in 2003. Thompson represented the victim's family in another multi-million lawsuit that blamed "Grand Theft Auto" for the murders and sued Take-Two Interactive, Rockstar Games and Sony Corp., makers of the game.
According to Thompson, the Alabama Supreme Court denied motions to dismiss, and the case, which was feature on "60 Minutes," is set for trial next year. The accused in that case, Devin Moore, 20, was convicted of murder and sentenced to death.
"Four experts who have testified before Congress have told the Alabama court that if he had not played the game, he would not have killed," Thompson said. "That's strong stuff, but it happens to be true. Now the Alabama Supreme Court has rejected the industry's First Amendment arguments, and the case is proceeding to trial this next year."
Lawyer claims compelling evidence
The Posey lawsuit, which asks for compensatory, special and punitive damages, was filed by Verlin Posey of Texline, Texas, who represents the estate of his murdered brother Delbert Paul Posey, Pat and Leona Basham of Elephant Butte, parents of Tryone Posey, Cody's stepmother, and grandparents of Marilea Schmid, identified in the lawsuit as Marilea Posey.
Posey's father was manager of the Donaldson ranch.
Thompson claims that the day Posey was sentenced to state custody until he is 21, prosecutor Grisham "called and asked me to bring that lawsuit. I find that rather remarkable because law enforcement tends to be wary of such suits as exculpatory (helping the defendant)."
"That's an understandable response, but a deadly dangerous one, as our society must come to grips, and quickly, with the fact that entertainment copycat killings are occurring all over the place," Thompson said. "Just take a look at what happened this month at Dawson College in Montreal."
Grisham said Tuesday that after Cody was sentenced and she spoke to the family, she asked if Thompson would be willing to represent them and passed his telephone number to those relatives.
Thompson said Posey's attorney during his trial, Gary Mitchell, was not interested in the video game angle.
"He didn't want to talk to me about it," Thompson said. "He had a theory in his case, and from a criminal defense standpoint, he had a great result. He didn't want to go that way, and that's fine."
Mitchell said Tuesday he recalls talking to Thompson "about it at some length, and I reviewed the material he sent me. In our investigations, we try not to leave anything uncovered.
"I didn't see as it as a meritorious defense. I was far more concerned about the abuse Cody suffered over the years than any connection to playing a game on the computer."
While the prosecution described Posey in his trial as a cold-blooded killer whose actions were premeditated, the defense claimed he snapped after years of abuse at the hands of his father. Several family members and friends backed up the reports of abuse.
The $600 million wrongful death suit filed Monday blames "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City," claiming Posey played it obsessively for several months before the killings.
'Virtual reality murder simulators'
According to the suit and in interviews immediately after the murder on July 4, 2004, Thompson claims he was told by a sheriff's deputy that the game and a Sony Playstation 2 were found at the ranch.
The lawsuit calls various editions of the game "virtual reality murder simulators."
"A video game may not, by itself, cause a teen or another individual to kill, but it can provide an indispensable or final link in a casual chain that results in tragedy," the suit states.
The game trained Cody on how to target a victim and shoot a gun, "making him an extraordinarily effective killer without teaching him any of the constraints or responsibilities needed to inhibit such a killing capacity," according to the suit.
The attorneys cited killings executed by other teens who played video games back to December 1997, contending in one case involving a 14-year-old that he "developed his counter-intuitive, unnatural, one-shot-per-target technique from playing and training on violent (mature-rated) video games.".
The plaintiffs accuse the corporate defendants of a "civil conspiracy," contending Sony Corporation of America, Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. and its subsidiary, Rockstar Games showed a "wanton and/or willful and reckless disregard for the safety of others."
Jim Ankner, a spokesman for Take-Two Interactive, could not be reached for comment at the New York corporate office, but other reports on the lawsuit indicate company officials believe the suit is without merit and will "strongly defend" the company.
jack thompson @ Sep 28th 2006 6:10AM
Armaina asks: "Where are the parents?"
Is this a typical Joystiq knucklehead? They're dead, ace. They let Posey play the game, day after day. Duh.
bayushisan @ Sep 28th 2006 7:06AM
Yeah. Heard it before JT and still don't buy it. If anything contributed to Posey's killing of his family it was the horrific abuse he was subjected to. Anyone with the smallest degree of common sense can see that. How you can actually make the claim that a videogame had more to do with it than anything else only goes to show that you've lost touch with reality.
nightwng2000 @ Sep 28th 2006 9:30AM
Actually, Cody was physically, verbally, mentally, and, reportedly, sexually abused (or at least the father tried to involve Cody in sexual abuse).
But apparently, in John Bruce's personal/religious/political opinion, that's completely acceptable. Long term abuse apparently is ok, as long as the victim stays a good little victim and lives with it.
Even the uncle, in the Court TV interview, said clearly that there were NO signs that Cody was capable of murder. He claimed, in the interview, that he felt Cody was a liar and sneaky (even since Cody was a baby, which is a rather silly thing to say). But he saw no signs that Cody was a physical threat. So, it appears, the uncle is magically seeing it all now. Oh, video games made him do it. In Truth, the reason he suddenly went from no signs to video-game-blame is the lying and deceptive manipulation of an individual who has a hidden agenda to mislead the general public, law enforcement, and the government for their own personal/religious/political reasons.
And before such individuals start spouting their obscene religious poppycock, they should know that I view the "God" they created for their own personal jusifications to be nothing more than a demon pretender to the throne of Heaven. Much in the same way Osama Bin Lauden and his followers also follow a fake Islamic faith with a demon pretender at the top created to justify their acts. So whatever religious nonsense such an individual might spout does not come from any True, honorable, ethical God, if any God exists. Because no True, honorable, ethical God would support lying, deceiving, misleading, or abusing anyone in any way, shape or form just to force their personal/religious/political beliefs on others.
And as far as the insults about gamers. Considering who it's coming from and that individual's True Nature, as pointed out time and again, I'd call such "insults" to actually be compliments in comparison to the person making the "insults".
After all, said maker of insults is implying that the real physical, mental, verbal and/or sexual abuse that Cody received is of no importance in comparison to playing a violent video game based in a fictional reality. Such an idea is sick, obscene, abusive, dishonorable, and unethcial, and is definitely not the belief of an honorable, ethical, intelligent God.
nightwng2000
NW2K Software
hayabusa75 @ Sep 28th 2006 10:16AM
@30:
Shut up bitch.
Michael Morris @ Sep 28th 2006 10:32AM
Research the attorney - LMAO. You really miss the point of who you are dealing with here. While I never claimed to have been objective in this case I did cover every single moment of it from the day of the arrest. The only way to describe the family situation as a whole is completely dysfunctional.
Every day of the trial is documented here http://mountainmailcountry.com . I warn you though it is heavily laced with sarchastic commentary. The point is this had nothing at all to do with Cody's occasional interaction with any video game. Unfortunately the "Alamogordo Daily News" cited above is fully in the pocket of the DA here, so the story came out a bit differently. Even now the company is slanting their way. The main media says the prosecutor made the contact with Thompson which would be a disbarrment offense while the local sanitized version says she merely gave a phone number.
Dishonesty is the favored tool of the crusaders of our world. It allows them to smooth over the facts that do not fit their agenda.
DtotheG @ Sep 28th 2006 12:43PM
Jack Thompson Is A Squelcher- Part I
So a while ago, I sent him this e-mail, under the subject "I Want To Show Pixelantes The Real Jack Thompson, Not A Straw Man":
------------------------------------------
To Mr. J. Thompson:
Just to get this out of the way, (since you replied to me with a "Where did you get this e-mail?"), I got your e-mail from here: http://www.gamepolitics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33181&postcount=2064
I tried to send these via e-mail, but your email changes so much. I would have called, but I live in New York, so long distance would be expensive. If you answer these questions, I will never e-mail them to you
again.
I have been hearing a lot of news about you in the recent months due to your opposition to the latent (like a fingerprint) sex minigame in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. Recent developments have prompted me to
e-mail you. Keep in mind that I'm just trying to get the facts straight, not some "pinhead gamer" trying to make fun of you. Also, some of these questions were for an e-mail I tried to send to you last November, so some of the material may be outdated.
1. What exactly ARE your stances on the issues that you have involved yourself with?
2. Do you see violent video games as something that can turn a once calm
person insane, or as a catalyst to drive a person who was already on the
edge (from such things as psychological disorders, etc.) to kill?
3. Your "colleagues" in this Hot Coffee buisness seem to be Leland Yee and Hillary Clinton. Leland Yee is an Assemblyman for the state of California, where nearly all of the development companies (save for Take Two, Majesco, and the now bankrupt Acclaim) reside, so whatever legislation he proposes will affect almost the entire industry. Hillary Clinton is a U.S. Senator, so any legislation SHE passes will affect
the ENTIRE country. What power do you have to aid you in achieving your goals? (Not meant to offend, I just didn't know if you were part of any specific firm or if you worked independently)
4. What is your opinion on games that are rated M due to the fact > because they have "grown-up" subject matter, not insane amounts of violence, like Indigo Prophecy, where,
A. You kill a man in a bathroom stall, but it is because you were possessed by an other-worldly force (probably the most offensive part of the game), which is an event that you have no control over
B. Two characters you control have problems with their girlfriends and you can choose to help them or hinder them
C. You control a detective who has claustrophobia and you need to control her breathing while she is obaining important case information or escape a dark asylum
Or, to sum it up, stuff kids wouldn't "get" or find boring. None of the sex or violence is interactive.
5. What exactly did you mean when you said that banning the Grand Theft Auto series of games in Japan, but the Japanese-originated Sony selling them here is like Pearl Harbor 2?
6. Japan and Europe have (basically) the same rating system, in which the have a General Audiences Rating, For Ages 12+, 15+ and 18+. All games, regardless of rating unless banned, are sold in stores. Do you think the United States should adopt a similar system?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEGI
Aside: Sex scenes (some interactive) in the European version of Indigo Prophecy are left intact, and has a 15+ Rating
7. Why did you choose to propose legislation in Louisianna, a state STILL recovering from the damage of Hurricane Katrina?
8. When you said your offer to donate $10,000 to charity was "satire", what was it a satire of?
9. What are your plans for the future?
10. Do you have any non-video game related cases you are currently working on?
11. What is/was your involvement with the Jacob Robida case? From the looks of it, he was a SEVERE Neo-Nazi. Is the video game thing merely tangential to the case, prompting you to work on it even though it MIGHT not have any relevance?
12. Can you show me the part of the Koran where it tells its followers
to kill? Doesn't the Bible have murder in it as well? (I myself am a
Catholic, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate for the sake of getting
more information and getting a better perspective on your position)
13. I also weightlift and take Tae Kwon Do. Weightlifting releases the
hormone testosterone, which increases aggressive behavior,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone
and Tae Kwon Do is more of a hands-on fighting trainer than Grand Theft Auto will ever be. Why aren't you doing anything about those activites if they are more of a threat?
14. What is your opinion on Nintendo's "Wii" Controller?
http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/EdX2WT4zfrPiOI_RoY3JWEMfpGJXu5MG.jpg
Wouldn't that lend itself to more accurate violence simulators, because the controller lends itself to resemble a variety of objects?
15. In 2005, roughly 20,000 murders were commited in the U.S., and assuming they were all singular homicides and the same person never killed
again, that would mean roughly 1 out of every 15,000 Americans have killed somebody. Since 2005, about 6 million copies of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas have been sold, and being that there are only 12 cases of murder directly related to video games, this means that 1 out of every 500,000 people who played it have commited a murder.
This essentially means that AIR is more responsible for murders than GTA:
SA. Does this in anyway make video games less responsible for the dozen or so cases of murder (Moore, Robida?, etc.)?
16. If you abhor killing cops in Grand Theft Auto and other games, why are you trying to get Devin Moore, a man who shot 3 cops, LESS jail time by claiming he didn't get a "fair trial", even though he openly admitted to it?
Please answer these questions for me, because I just want to know where you stand on certain issues so that I can be enlightened, and get the news directly from you, as opposed to the media where certain information can be left out (such as news blogs where there are no fact checkers).
Sincere Thanks,
(DtotheG)
XXX-XXX-XXXX
P.S. If I sell the "I'm OK" game on my website xnctoon.co.nr, will you donate $10,000 to a charity of my choice provided I get permission from the creators and Mr. Eibler (the former will get a hefty cut of the
sales from my site and the latter owns a company, so they both have some sort of income)? I hope to give the money to a worthy charity like Cancer Research UK (My Grandpa Angelo DiGiovanni died of cancer. He was
a very intelligent man who I enjoyed spending time with, who always told me stories of growing up during the Great Depression, and I always listened. He would have been 84 I believe this past August. God Bless him) or Huricane Katrina Relief.
DTOTHEG88@NETSCAPE.NET
P.P.S. The Merriam Websters Dictonary lists masturbation as "the
stimulaion of sexual organs outside of sex", so it is purely a sexual
term.
------------------------------------------- (sorry for the longness)
His reply:
----
I can't reply until I see the actual post below, which Dennis has blocked me
from seeing. Please copy/paste it to me. Thanks.
----
I figured sure, he deserved to know. My response:
---
To Mr J. Thompson:
Thank you for your reply, and if you'll answer the questions, I'd be more
than happy to show you the text.
Well, it was on the forum at GamePolitics, and all I did was click on the
link I sent you in the e-mail. I did not look up the posts before.
The post is:
"ironically, it's amendmentone@comcast.net."
Under the subject line (within your topic on the GamePolitics Forum) "New email alert" by Kincyr.
That's it.
Hope to hear back from you soon,
Eric DiGiovanni
---
His verbose and satisfying response:
----
nope
----
So, there you have it, Jack Thompson is too scared to answer my questions that would make him seem more sane and respectable.
Now I feel about JT as does Lowtax about Uwe Boll: Never gave a damn either way, until I actually talked to him.
Brook @ Sep 28th 2006 1:03PM
the truth seems "boring" when you're liars, because the truth is such an inconvenience.
That explains so much of what you say.
Four experts who have testified before Congress have told the Alabama court that if he had not played the game, he would not have killed,
Who are these experts? What information are they basing this decision on? I'd like to see their exact wording, because you have a tendency to exagerate and ommit parts until things say what you want them to (the APA report, for instance).
developed his counter-intuitive, unnatural, one-shot-per-target technique from playing and training on violent (mature-rated) video games.
Several tings to say here. First of all, what exactly was so counter-intuitive or unnatural about his killing technique? Most of the kids you claim got their skills from video games were already trained in how to fire guns (the Columbine boys went hunting, Posey's own father had bragged about Posey's aim). How is it that you feel playing a game offers better training than real life gun practice? You also have yet to mention how using auto-aim and pressing square somehow translates into real-life ability. Even using the sniper rifle (the only weapon in GTA fired from your own perspective) the character is capable of holding the rifle completely stationary, even while firing.
I'd love to see you answer any of these questions Jack, although you'll probably just skip over them. Just in case you need a reminder, here are the questions:
1) Who are the experts and what did they base their statements on? Actual transcripts of the statements would be appreciated.
2) What was counter-intuitive or unnatural about the one boy's technique?
3) Why do you feel video games are solely responsible for these people's accuracy, when most, if not all, of them had prior training using real guns?
4) How does game assisted shooting, that's only marginally realistic at best, often completely ignoring things like loading the gun, unsteady hands, the safety, etc. translate into real world skills?
5) (This one wasn't mentioned before, but it's probably the most important one here) Do you honestly believe that video games were more responsible for Cody killing his family than the abuse he suffered at their hands? Are you at all worried that this case attempts to excuse the deplorable actions of Paul Posey?
Attack Gypsy @ Sep 28th 2006 5:34PM
Hey, I have a real novel idea.
Jack has mentioned two court cases. The one in Alabama, and this new one in New Mexico.
Why don't we all (and this includes Jack) just wait until these cases are decided?
Then we'll see who's right.
If Joystiq and the posters here are right, Jack will lose, there will be precidence, and Jack Thompson will be made to look the fool.
If Jack is right, he will win, he'll get his huge 50 million (or somewhere around there) payday, and he'll have ample evidence to get whatever law he thinks is right passed.
Bashing Jack, and his bashing Joystiq in return, does nothing but make everybody sound childish and immature.
Lets see what happens. The Alabama case should be early next year. That will give us all the first indication of where this is going.
(I apologise for my spelling errors, I was in a hurry.)
Towaru Tsura @ Sep 29th 2006 1:40PM
I have decided to take up an original stance on Jack Thompson, or, as I have chosen to call him up to this point, Tommy Gun.
I refuse to acknowledge him as a living creature. But I have not simply decided to ignore this thing, as he cannot be called a man. No, I am taking this a step further.
I deny the very existence of this thing. Much like the boogeyman, or the easter bunny, this thing is not real. I will stick to this belief no matter what evidence is shown to me, be it Television appearances, polls, assurance of the experts, or other posters that are clearly uneducated idiots simply because they do not agree with me, that this thing does not and never did populate this universe.
And, on top of that, I will personally sue any and all who attempt to express any form of opinion to the contrary of mine for harrassment, as it is obvious to anyone with a degree in law that practicing the first amendment is a form of harrassment. Have a very nice day.
To all my fellow gamers,
~ Towaru Tsura
Firedrake @ Sep 30th 2006 5:12PM
I admit I'm a tad skeptical about seeing a reply from "Jack Thompson" on this forum. But then, just doing a google on him, "he" seems to reply to ANY board that his name is mentioned on. If this is really him, consider what this says about him. That in spite of working on these cases, and doing whatever it is he does to make a living, he will make the time to write on any internet board that dares speak his name. We are talking fame whoredom of a whole new level here folks...
Alex Cahill Nielsen @ Oct 6th 2006 10:42AM
Here's my two cents for Jack Thompson, assuming he ever were to read this post:
Dear Mr. Thompson,
Do you hate Rock and Roll? How about Waltzes? Both have been banned because they caused "violence and immorality."
How do you feel about McCarthyism? Why don't you find that era of our history to be particularly embarassing or offensive? A single member of the public spotlight, using powers, not his to wield, in order to ostracise American citizens for exercising their God-given American rights - doesn't this strike a chord in you concerning your current behavior? Living now as I do in Germany, a country less succeptible to the frivolous lawsuit, I feel moderately safe at this moment in indicating that you are a parachronism, the Senator Joseph McCarthy for an age with no need for another HUAC. You belong in the late 50's, fostering fear while encouraging miseducations and misinformations.
Nobody asked you, sir, to step up and claim to be a voice for all of America's citizens, at home or abroad, not in your crusade against the 1st Amendmant, and not in your harrassment of decent, hardworking Americans, from parents and game designers to journalists and quality politicians like Ms. Reno. I am damned glad to have left America and come to Germany a land where you are even more of a joke to those who know of you than back home in the states - my games don't even have an ESRB tag in the corner, and I still know what is a good game, what is a bad game, and what games may be excessively violent for my tastes. I may pay a little more to have my dignity, but buying a video game in this country means I don't have to shuffle through the line feeling like a murderous Communist for wanting to entertain myself.
In America, democracy as it is, we elect people to be our voices in government. Ambulance chasers have no right or role in the alteration of our constitutionally granted freedoms. You, Jack Thompson, eyes lighting up as you hear those sirens approaching, have taken it upon yourself to label every crime you can lay hands on to be the result of video games. You are now using the courts of our fine nation in a sick game, a travesty to use air time on CNN to steal away 1st Amendment rights from us, sir, and this is not only immoral, un-American, and vile, it is also a sin against the true victims of the crimes you have rodeoed into your "noble cause."
What about crime before video games, sir? What about Hitler? Surely he must have been horribly addicted to Ms. Pacman, and ferociously eradicated Jewish nationals like so many dots on the game grid, his mind twisted by hours and hours in front of that flickering screen of iniquity. Surely, to a life-long gamer like Hitler, Poland must have been ripe as a 1000 pt. cherry, until the foul beastly ghosts of freedom and the American way cornered him in Level 4 and brought about his downfall.
Your crusade is a self-effacing joke, sir. And you... you are vaudevillian in your attempts to sink the ship of American justice. You might as well have sticks of dynamite poking out of your trenchcoat, crooked mustache capping the wry smile on your evil lips. You are a charicature of how we all see high-power attorneys; all the lawyer jokes in the world couldn't equal even one half of you, Mr. Thompson.
There are actually a few victims of video game violence, sir, and I recommend you start worrying about them for a change. For starters, you might try looking in a mirror. No man's character has suffered as much as yours in the battle against truth, justice, and the American way. And so, I close, as all protest should, with an invective.
Mr. Jack Thompson, be gone with you. The day We The People want you claiming representation of us, our country, or our justice system, we will elect you to such a position as will allow you that solemn and happy responsibility. It is best that you don't hold your breath until we do so appoint you, sir. Or better yet, do - it would improve your ability to hold your tongue, and it would, with luck, impede your ability to remain alive while preventing you from filing criminal charges against anyone but yourself for the damages caused.
I sign this letter with my real name, in open defiance of Mr. Thompson's penchant for assaulting with legal pentalty those who oppose him:
Mr. Thompson, burn in hell.
Alex Cahill Nielsen
Lüneburg, Germany
P.S.
I, Alex Nielsen, am a(n):
[X] heterosexual
[X] American citizen
[ ] opponent of American civil liberties
Falos @ Oct 6th 2006 12:19PM
From post #30, lower area...
"The game trained Cody on how to target a victim and shoot a gun, 'making him an extraordinarily effective killer without teaching him any of the constraints or responsibilities needed to inhibit such a killing capacity,' according to the suit."
Let's see here...
"Trained how to target" - Hold R1 or something. I think you can FPS with select.
"Trained how to shoot a gun" - DOES ANYONE HERE NOT KNOW HOW TO SHOOT A GUN??? (press X or something)
"...making him an extraordinarily effective killer" - Compared to who? Pick a person, an event, a location. If there's no metal detector (or other filter) you can kill them. Or try.
Compared to who? He took a gun or whatever and killed them by surprise. I wonder if you could train a MONKEY to take a gun, walk up to your target, and shoot. If they don't see him, they're shot.
Compared to who? Any half-competent person pull off what he did, no GTA required.
If that's all it takes to make a kid a lethal weapon, they should skip college (heck, high school) and with a week of GTA training go into the "business". Turns out years of work to be a ninja is a waste.
As for the inhibitions? I'm thinking, "wrong angle, those aren't default." A weapon doesn't come with a conscience (sp?) attached, or a "you shouldn't" label. They just kill. There's no form to fill out saying you're aware of your decision, it's instant. A simple button (or trigger) can kill one or more...
...or hundreds. I recall reading in a Ripley's about Atilla or someone that killed hundreds of captives because they thought he said "kill them" (in native tounge) when he sneezed, and had planned to release them. But that's a tangent.
Sorry if I don't know the GTA controls to detail, they're not my kind of game. Mostly because they're hyped. Can't stand the fact that people will buy, say, Halo 2, and never play it, just leave it on the coffee table like they do. Like a billabong or quicksilver shirt on a guy who's never held a surfboard. Hyped names.
JT knows GTAs a hyped name. A household name. There are games that are more involved, more direct, cut deeper. I hear God of War is gory. It's still detached though.
Yeah, he's a douche. I read about him making like 50 forum accounts at some site. Why? They kept getting banned. Does he make points about addiction? Ironic.
~Falos