1UP urges us to buy, not steal
1UP reports that Final Fantasy XII is being illegally distributed via bit torrent, with multiple bit torrent user comments confirming that the torrents house playable English versions of Square Enix's RPG. In response to the alleged leak, the site has issued the following PSA:"Forgetting that pirating is a criminal activity, 'Final Fantasy XII' is supposed to be an absolutely incredible RPG -- we strongly encourage gamers to wait a few more weeks for the real game to properly reward Square Enix for their labored work."
We can't think of a better way to put it. Keep it
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Gapati @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:39PM
But it IS the real game.
DocGonzo @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:44PM
If its actually worth it, then people will pay for it. I have heard way too much bad things about this game to skip off school and camp out at Microplay like I did for FF8 so many moons ago.
Really though the argument is kinda pointless if you consider the basics...telling people who have already decided that PS2 games aren't worth paying $70 for not to steal them, when they've already invested in the hardware to facilitate exactly that.
I'm downloading it, and if its worth the money then I'll buy it - but chances are it won't be worth it till its in the $20 Greatest Hits bin.
lucifer @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:47PM
so you feel it normal just to not pay for a game that people have invested time and millions in? something called renting a game for 5$ and deciding that way. but hey, i guess your the moron who doesn't leave their housr
Lorben @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:48PM
Don’t be an asshole. Square worked hard on this game. If you don’t think it’s worth the money, don’t play it.
Miniboss @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:50PM
"I'm downloading it, and if its worth the money then I'll buy it - but chances are it won't be worth it till its in the $20 Greatest Hits bin."
http://www.gamefly.com
Please do it. For everyone else's sakes. You're the reason why companies put stupid copy-protection and DRM everywhere.
Martin A. @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:51PM
Renting a game gives no revenue to the development team, so that argument is meaningless.
I agree with Lorben, if you don't think it's worth the money, they you shouldn't play it. If you can afford it and want to play it, then you damn well better purchase it.
Not that I think my words will influence you in any way, shape or form. But I'd rather it didn't go unsaid.
thunderleg @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:55PM
I wouldn't play this game even if it were free.
Don't encourage Square-Enix. Please.
Lorben @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:55PM
Renting still generates money for the publishers. Rental companies have to buy the games to rent them out. The more demand there is for a game, the more copies the rental company has to buy to fill that demand.
It doesn’t generate as much money, but you’re not completely shafting the publisher.
SkullFry @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:55PM
I'm sure there are enough people who bought previous versions of FF so that we dont have to worry about our game devs children starving... If i wrote a game and people put the time into stealing it, I would feel pretty good about myself... making something that steal-worthy
Suck it up FF its the game that matters not the income.
(seems like we just went through this BS with music piracy...)
rockintom99 @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:56PM
Um, don't you need a moded PS2 to play the burned DVD of it? And telling people with moded ps2s to not illegally download a game is probably not effective..
pandlcg @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:57PM
Companies who rent out games have to pay a higher price for the games for the rights to rent it. So supporting game rentals does help developers, albeit differently than buying a game directly. Either way i havent rented a game in ages...
Advanced @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:59PM
Um, don't you need a moded PS2 to play the burned DVD of it? And telling people with moded ps2s to not illegally download a game is probably not effective..
That about sums it up. You can lock this thread now.
DocGonzo @ Oct 3rd 2006 3:59PM
And companies putting stupid copy-protection and DRM everywhere are the reason I can't return a product if I'm unsatisfied with it - if I drop that $80 on a game, its a done deal. I can't bring it back if its crap. Which is why I do so much pirating.
The other night I watched Ultraviolet. And I was glad I didn't pay for it - and I was even more happy when I deleted it. Just a few hours ago I went out and bought the overpriced Little Mermaid DVD - I already have a copy of it on VHS [not the one with the penis on the cover, sorry] and it was worth the $35 for a second copy.
See my point here? For everything that is good out there, there are a thousand pieces of crap. And the way things are now, there is NO legitimate way to know which is which without risking my money.
From what I've read/heard about FF12 so far, its not worth $40, much less $80. So I'm going to try it and see - you all have such confidence in it, then there's no problem, right? This game is going to rock my socks off, no doubt. So tell you what, you all think like this, then I'll put up my Paypal account, you can all put up -your- $80 for me to risk.
Because I'm not going to pay for something I don't want.
Lorben @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:03PM
"And companies putting stupid copy-protection and DRM everywhere are the reason I can't return a product if I'm unsatisfied with it - if I drop that $80 on a game, its a done deal. I can't bring it back if its crap. Which is why I do so much pirating."
There are these great things called reviews that can help you determine if a game/movie/whatever is good. The 18/100 metacritic score could have told you that Ultraviolet was crap too.
fahmi @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:04PM
Even with the piracy, gaming industry still moves at faster pace compares to movie and music industries. piracy is bad for developed nations. BUT~ to buy JUST ONE game that cost gamers in developing nations half of their rent is just absurd, of course because of the direct currency exchange.
K-man @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:04PM
I've never supported downloading games because I believe the most game developers deserve every penny for the work they've put into these games.
I do however support downloading music of Bitorrent. I've downloaded music off itunes before and they put so much protection on it that I can't use it in Final Cut Pro or transfer it without getting errors. Also, when I see those stupid comercials about the starving artist not getting paid because of "illegal downloading it makes me sick. Most musicians with record contracts will tell you that most of the money they make goes to the fat man on top.
I support downloading software like "Quicken".
I bought Quicken for online banking a couple of years ago. After 2 years they said I had to buy a new copy inorder to use the online banking system. I thought they might have added significant upgrades so I complied. When I installed the new version it was pretty much exactly the same. My point is alot of software companies are ripping off their customers and they deserve to be ripped off back.
Sorry for rambling but I have alot of feeling on this subject.
Vincent @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:05PM
"properly reward Square Enix for their labored work."
You know, you can put a lot of labor into taking a crap when you're constipated, and it still isn't worth anything. Square is constipated (struggling for more ways to get money out of FF series) and they spent a lot of time on this log. Doesn't mean its worth anything. It'll prolly suck just as much as their previous 5 or so games. Square has turned to crap ever since the last "next-gen" hype started.
Let us now join in prayer, and ask the Great Spirit that they do not ruin FFIII, especially with the localization of it. -_- Square FTL.
I never hated SquareSoft, and I never hated Enix... but for some reason I really hate SquareEnix. They did something wrong with that merger. As if the two greatest people in each company was like "Oh, eff this!" and left to like... Konami.. no wait, they haven't been doin too well either. Okay, they killed themselves, then.
j. @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:07PM
Why are people even talking about this?
If it is indeed newsworthy, where were the news outlets when Katamari Damacy, Shadow of the Colossus, Burnout, [insert whatever title you can think of. ever], et al were (and still are) available on bitTorrent?
I understand that this is a full month before the release, but as rockintom99 said, they're preaching to the wrong crowd anyways.
K-man @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:07PM
"From what I've read/heard about FF12 so far, its not worth $40, much less $80. So I'm going to try it and see - you all have such confidence in it, then there's no problem, right? This game is going to rock my socks off, no doubt. So tell you what, you all think like this, then I'll put up my Paypal account, you can all put up -your- $80 for me to risk.
Because I'm not going to pay for something I don't want."
Well Said DocGonzo!
Wedge @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:07PM
"Um, don't you need a moded PS2 to play the burned DVD of it? And telling people with moded ps2s to not illegally download a game is probably not effective.."
Indeed.
Where is all this $70 and $80 crap coming from? It's $50 with a $60 special edition, just like every other console game. And it'll be $20 in a year or so when it's part of the Greatest Hits. So get it now or get it later. And if you have a modded PS2, obviously you get things whenever. It's not needed for imports these days, so you know that's the only reason anyone has one.
And what the hell is up with that creepy graphic in the post. That guy is scary as hell.
Lixie @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:14PM
How about Square-Enix not insult Americans by releasing it 7 months after the Japanese release? Many Europeans steal PC games because they are released many moons after the US release date.
It's a simple choice. Import, steal, or wait. Either way a publisher shouldn't expect eager consumers to just stand by and wait patiently and obediently while final versions are readily available to import or steal.
Here's a crazy idea. Why not start working on multiple language variations of the game during its initial development so the publisher can launch near simultaneously across many markets? I know, crazy.
Finally, I'm not too happy that 1up is crusading for Square-Enix. Let Square handle their own issues. I want my journalist focused on the consumer end. Why, I would be overjoyed if 1up did some actual journalism and investigated into why a company as rich as Square-Enix chooses not to develop the English and Japanese versions simultaneously? They have the money and the staff to do accomplish it.
But there's my idealistic side again, desperately hoping for some real journalism in video game media.
Journal Fan @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:16PM
Gonzo, you crack me up.
If you're hearing bad things about the game, you must have voices in your head. All the early effusively positive, all the scores of the Japanese version are extremely high, and Famitsu even ranked it a Platinum level with 10/10/10/10 scores.
It's funny looking at the logic of a software pirate. "I've heard it was a bad game so I'm downloading it to see if it's good".
Yeah, go with that nonsense.
Say what you will, you're still a criminal.
Probot @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:16PM
"I'm sure there are enough people who bought previous versions of FF so that we dont have to worry about our game devs children starving..."
Yeah, the games did so well, the company had to sell to itself to its biggest rival in order to stay afloat.
DocGonzo,
"Companies putting stupid copy-protection and DRM everywhere ... is why I do so much pirating."
And your piracy is why companies put DRM on products. Funny that.
This excuse: "I'm just going to download it to test it. If I like it, I'll buy it." is complete bullshit and everyone knows it. Stop insulting our intelligence. You won't buy it because there's no reason to. If you've already stolen the game, you have it and there's no reason for you to get up and buy it. You might feel guilty for a while, but you know you can't get caught, and eventually you forget about it anyways, plus you're saving money.
Lie to yourself, I don't care. But don't try to convince me your shit don't stink.
Slashbunny @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:17PM
Are 1up now the piracy police?! Who gives a damn what they say. Why don't they do these public service... or should I say corporate service announcements for smaller games from indie developers, the ones that need every penny to survive- not the latest Final Fantasy installment that will make millions in profits. 1up can shove this up their righteous asses.
gus @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:18PM
Sad.
DocGonzo @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:18PM
Protip: reviewers are not me, nor are they you. I kinda like thinking for myself. You should try it sometime, you might find something good that you weren't expecting.
As to the prices, I live in Canada, where regardless of the exchange rate (dollar is stronger than ever, or so I keep hearing) games are $20 more, period.
All these arguments just remind me of the last time I had an issue with a game. Reflexive.com has this nifty system where they repackage one of about four total 'kinds' of games, dozens of times, and then sells it for $20 each time. They have literally hundreds of people on their forums, screaming for the next version of Solitaire so they can give them more money. And of course, there is a stupid-easy way to get these games for free. One day I see a game that isn't pure cookiecutter, so I download the free trial of it - and it doesn't run. I try applying the super-secret-piratey-fixer to give myself the full version - and it doesn't work. I talk to the tech support...for three weeks. Any post I made saying 'this game doesn't work, howcome?' or 'I need help getting this game to run' or 'does anybody else have problems with this game not working?' were deleted as soon as a moderator saw it. The only communication I got was 'You need to have a purchased email receipt for the game to get support for it, please see www.payforthegamehere.thenwewillhelpyou.com'
By all your arguments, I should have just ponied on up with my $20, for a game that I didn't know if I liked, that I already knew was crap on the technical side, with absolutely no guarantee that I wouldn't want my money back later, but full knowledge that I would never get it if I did.
Mike @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:20PM
Good to see the pirates are still using the same old rationalizations.
Pince @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:20PM
@2
Wow, what an incredibly inane justification for stealing a game.
I mean, besides the fact that your argument that "the game isnt worth it" does not justify anything, have you played the game? Can you substantiate that point with anything but that preview you read, what your dumbas friend said, or the PA comic you saw?
Have you even seen enough reviewable content to deem whether or not the title is worthy of your money?
I doubt it.
Whatever, I guess thieves will try to justify their bullshit anyway they can even if their reasoning is as lame as "I would only spend $20 for this game, so I may as well just rip it off". A welcome alternative; wait for the price to go down.
Pathetic.
sizer @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:20PM
You know, I saw this... then decided that between Okami and Valkyrie Profile 2 (both of which I also legitimately bought) I don't /want/ this till my preorder arrives at the end of the month.
Journal Fan @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:20PM
That should be "all the early buzz on the American localization is effusively positive". Apologies.
Seroth @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:23PM
If I had a modded PS2, I'd probably be downloading the game right now.
SkullFry @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:24PM
What happened to creativity just being that.
people just being happy to be able to create something
I dont plan on stealing the game or buying it.
I do however feel, that there is a point where a dev should sit back and say, wow, they want it that bad eh?
and have that level of desire not be based on price.
Im really looking at the people who did the work to get the game originally. not the people who push the download here button.
chris w @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:25PM
i love being a pirate of videogames and movies. I get to say fuck you to millions of people I'll never meet. When else will I get that chance?
JFink @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:25PM
So if I borrow a friend's copy, does that make as bad as a pirate because I am not paying Squeenix to play their latest cash-in er... game. In 1up.com's eyes, it looks like yes I am.
Hey 1up.com, shut the hell up.
Lorben @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:27PM
"Protip: reviewers are not me, nor are they you. I kinda like thinking for myself. You should try it sometime, you might find something good that you weren't expecting."
I said *help* you determine, not determine. If a movie or game got ridiculously bad scores, there is most likely a reason behind that. There are also other ways to help you decide if a game is worth buying. Demos, asking someone who owns the game, borrowing, renting, all kinds of ways that aren’t stealing.
There are very few sure things in life. If you’re not willing to take a risk on anything, even after careful research, you will lead a very boring and sad life.
nalgae @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:31PM
I believe all games should be free. We won't get good graphics, we won't get big budget titles and we won't get mass market appeal. But, we will still get good games.
Many free games created by developers in their spare time are gems that focus on gameplay, humor and other factors, not just graphics and SFX. Look to Dink Smallwood or many of the fun shareware games of the early 90s. The gameplay of the shareware games rivaled that of the NES games currently popular back then.
Intellectual property simply shouldn't exist as a concept. Anyone who argues for it's necessity should look back to the days of Shakespeare. He basically stole storylines from other playwrights, but re-tailored them perfectly and had a company with perfect execution (i.e. Winter's Tale). The ideas were stolen, but his words and his troupe's performances were his own. If he did the same thing today as he did back then, he would be sued, put out of business and left to rot. Intellectual property is nothing but a goldmine for the middle-men: the publishers.
Let's get back to the days when the only way you could distinguish yourself was by a quality product, not by your advertising budget and how well you can make a game under your publisher's time frame.
Nij @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:31PM
These comments illustrate the average 'net savvy gamer's mentality towards illegal downloading: They don't care. As long as they can get it, they will do so, and they'll swallow any rationalization they can find to make themselves feel better about it.
"I should be able to try before I buy."
"They've made us wait this long-- I deserve it for free!"
"The developers should just be happy they were able to make it."
"The developers should just be happy I'm willing to play it."
"I would never have bought the game anyway."
No matter how hard you argue with these morons about piracy, they will never listen. Anime fans are the absolute worst about it, and most of the anime fans that play games play Final Fantasy. It's no surprise that Square Enix nearly cancelled the North American release of Advent Children due to piracy.
Mike @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:33PM
Can we please cut the half assed ideological defenses and just get the pirates to be honest with themselves about what they're doing?
DocGonzo @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:33PM
"Demos, asking someone who owns the game, borrowing, renting, all kinds of ways that aren’t stealing."
And...none of which are actually POSSIBLE. Awesome argument there.
See, my reasoning is that I liked FF7. I liked it so much that I skipped school to get and play FF8 the day it came out, and I was glad I did so. I did the same thing for FF9, and afterwards I wasn't really sure if it had been worth it. I waited for FFX, and I was glad I did, because it -wasn't- worth it; even now I wish I hadn't paid the $20 I did for a used copy. FFX-2 held zero interest for me, FF11 is an MMO/cashcow and therefore completely not what I'm looking for in an RPG, and here I sit. Broken hearted ex-FF lover, hoping for something good again, jaded by the harsh reality that the recent track record has given me.
Pince @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:37PM
@DocGonzo
See, the main problem here is that you are trying to justify stealing shit, and, generally, that's a silly thing to do. All of the problems you describe are shit that everyone has to deal with.
So you buy a game and don't like it? Tough shit!
Its called being a consumer. Its part of the deal. You buy something, and there is risk involved. If you don't like it and can't take it back then too bad. You took a small risk and it didnt pay off; welcome to the world of modern business exchanges.
You want it different, then move to a country where capitalism hasnt provided so much (including the ability for your dumb ass to steal such nice stuff) and then maybe you won't have to deal with such obviously unfair (please notice the sarcasm) rules and regulations which are necessary in an economic system such as ours.
Stealing makes you a jackass, and trying to justify it with your whiny "oh poor me, the helpless consumer, i am entitled to pirate shit" act is tired and childish.
Grow up.
If you want to know what the game is like, take some responsibility and YOU put up the damn money. Either that or you can be a whiny chickenshit and just steal it. Your call...but we know what you've chosen.
Vincent @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:37PM
I dunno about you guys, but if I were to pirate a game to "see if it's worth buying," and it IS, I BUY IT! I can't stand having a game, movie, album, etc, that I love, and not own the real box, booklet, pressed CD, and the legal rights to use it. I download music, I won't lie. But I buy the album afterward. Of course, I don't do it anymore since I can go to Tower Records and listen to samples from ANY CD in the store, and they're open 'till 12am. No more music piracy for me, just a quick drive.
As for movies, I go to the movies with my friends, if I like it, I buy the DVD. Sometimes we'll go see movies several times, paying 2-3x the amount the DVD is worth, just to see it before the DVD is released.
Games: Like I said. I can't stand not owning the box, etc. Like my Anime. If it isn't licensed in America, I download it. If it is.. and.. it isn't terrible (a la One Piece dub >_
Ian @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:38PM
People like DocGonzo piss me off, these are the people who try to justify it by saying it might not be worth it or they'll buy it if it is worth it. If you want to demo it wait for a demo in OPM or rent it for christ's sake. The only one your talking to when you say things like that is yourself, trying to justify what your doing. As I said, theres other ways to tell if you like it and even so you could still sell it on ebay or trade it in if you don't like it. Just buy the game and stop trying to justify piracy because you wanted to save 50 or 60 bucks. BTW it got a 40/40 in Famitsu so it is supposed to be a great game. Saying you might not like it is just telling yourself its okay to download it, when it isn't.
Lorben @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:41PM
“39. "Demos, asking someone who owns the game, borrowing, renting, all kinds of ways that aren’t stealing."
And...none of which are actually POSSIBLE. Awesome argument there.”
I call bullshit. I have a demo disc of FF XII. There are 10 reviews on Metacritic, and you could ask or borrow from anyone with an import copy. The only one out of the question is renting.
[-Z-] @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:41PM
Yeah man, just give yourself keep giving yourself an excuse to pirate. "They're already made millions", If everybody think like that, they will make 0, no more games to play. I don't believe in testing games first and buy it later. Chances of you finished the game and never buy it is like 90%.
What goes around, come around. There are reasons that why others making millions and you're not. So Keep pirating and bag my grocery for me and no I don't need help out.
Eli @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:45PM
Is it true that Gamespot might be connected to this leak? Seen it mentioned in a couple of places.
Vincent @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:45PM
(hooray for cutting off comments first time it's happened to me)
..(a la One Piece dub -_-) I'll buy the published DVD/Game/WHATEVER!! I haven't pirated a game since I was 14 years old.. quite a ways back, and when it was really really really easy, haha. But either way, I don't do it, haven't in a long time, and don't plan on it. If there's something like FF, etc that is coming out and I wanna try, guarantee I've got a friend that is going crazy for it and will have it at launch. That's when trusty "watching and/or borrowing" comes in.
crono141 @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:49PM
I look at piracy as a form of credit without interest.
I used to pirate a crap ton of games, back when you could get them off napster or kazaa or whatever was all the rage back then. After a time, I ended up buy Civ3 gold (one of the ones I pirated). The rest are sitting on my shelf, because I booted it up, played it 3 times, and put them away (MOO3 anyone. DAMN that game sucked hard).
Since then, I've grown a moral backbone, and don't tend to steal games anymore. I'm still running on an XP build that isn't legal, and I have pirated office 2003 that I still use. I guess I should just pony up and buy it, but at 200 dollars for XP and 80 or 90 for office, which I only use on occasion, I can't see how its worth it.
Maybe I should look into OpenOffice or something else like that. I think I'll get vista at release, or shortly afterward.
Of course, buying XP isn't always legit either. A buddy of mine just bought a copy off the internet (thru pricewatch, not one of those "get s0ftw@r3 for cheap" e-mails". What arrived in the mail is what comes with a pre-loaded Dell PC. Literally. The CD said "only for sale with Dell PCs".
He didn't buy a dell PC, btw.
I think I've started rambling, so I guess I'll stop.
DocGonzo @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:51PM
Its the mindset that bothers me the most, I think. Like Reflexive with the problem I had earlier.
I couldn't demo their product, and they didn't want to help me make it work. Know why? Because it was crap. They knew it wasn't worth their ten minutes of tech support time to get it working for me, because I wasn't going to pay for it even if they did. For them, they KNOW they produce mediocre product, they KNOW that it's buggy and won't always work right, and they KNOW that for every person like me that won't put up with crap, there are fifty others waving their credit cards frantically.
You might not agree with me. But the simple fact that you're all waving your (identical, for the most part) opinions in the air, screaming 'PIRATES ARE BAD', and generally not paying attention to reason...just makes me remember that I have no pity for those hundreds of people who buy from Reflexive.
I'm proud of the things I have. My home, my car, my family, my collection of excellent games, my twin towers of DVDs, everything that I've worked hard for and been glad I did. For everything that I've tried and didn't like, if I -had- paid for it first, then I wouldn't have what I -do- have - which is quality. You all say 'support the industry', I say 'support the QUALITY industry and maybe we won't have to deal with the crap games that saturate the market'.
Measure @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:51PM
Videogame piracy is as old as gaming itself. I played pirated games when I was a kid and my parents wouldn't give me a big enough allowance to buy them. Was the industry hurt? NO! It turned me into a hardcore videogame fan, and now, as an adult, I give rediculous amounts of cash to the game industry.
Let the pirates have their fun. If the game is good, it will make millions of dollars on it's own merit.
WordsWorth @ Oct 3rd 2006 4:54PM
#45 why would gamespot leak it??? that would just be pissin in the teapot for the whole review community. I've seen this posted on a few forums, but it can't be true it sucks if it is lol