1UP urges us to buy, not steal

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In 5 years, or maybe 10, companies will look back on things like this and hang their heads in shame. Why can technically skilled people get their hands on their product when paying customers have to wait a MONTH for it? All morality of the issue of piracy aside, from a straight-up business standpoint, that is a sign of a critical flaw in your business. Nobody should be better at delivering your product than you. The music, movie, and software industries need to learn this.

@Wild Homes - "no one says you get an entitlement to only buy awesome stuff"

How about...ME? THE CONSUMER? It is my money. I have every right to say "I don't want to spend money on this product." Yes, I know I'm technically breaking the law. But really...every argument I've heard so far is that 'piracy is illegal, which is bad, because if its illegal then its against the law and thats not good!'

I'm of the opinion that its far more wrong, both from a moral and a business standpoint, that EVERY CONSUMER IN AMERICA is now a pirate. Seriously. Go to Walmart, and buy a CD, or a game, or a computer program. Guess what? You're stuck with it now. You can't bring it back, even if you don't like the product, because you obviously have made an illegal copy of it.

If I really cared so much about following The Rules, (which I have no real incentive to do, by the way) then maybe all these identical arguments would affect me somehow. But it is really far more simple than that.


I pirate because I can. Its easy to do, and I enjoy doing it, and I'm not likely to stop. And you know what? When I find a good game, chances are good I'll buy it. Not unsurprisingly, LIFE GOES ON.

@95 - You elucidate my point perfectly. Thank you for understanding - I only hope that actions by people like us (by which I mean people who don't buy shit games, rewarding incompetence in the development cycle) will eventually cause the changes that we seek.

I paid $70 for FF2(4) & $80 for FF3(6) back in the day. Those games were worth every penny, even though they were priced very high for video games. And while I will be playing FF12 before the 31st, I still plan on purchasing it on the 31st (as long as the game is good & not a huge dissapointment like Final Fantasies 7-11 were).

I'm sure I'll catch shit for that last comment, but that's my opinion.

“How about...ME? THE CONSUMER? It is my money. I have every right to say "I don't want to spend money on this product." Yes, I know I'm technically breaking the law. But really...every argument I've heard so far is that 'piracy is illegal, which is bad, because if its illegal then its against the law and thats not good!'”

Yes, you do have the right so say “I don’t want to spend money on this product.” But don’t confuse that with “I want this product, yet I do not want to pay for it and will therefore take it without paying.” I understand being careful with your money. I’m about as broke as you can be while still being able to afford to pay the bills, but that doesn’t mean I can take what I want because I don’t want or have the ability to pay for it. It just means I have to be very careful when I buy a game because I’m not going to be able to afford another one for quite some time.


“I'm of the opinion that its far more wrong, both from a moral and a business standpoint, that EVERY CONSUMER IN AMERICA is now a pirate. Seriously. Go to Walmart, and buy a CD, or a game, or a computer program. Guess what? You're stuck with it now. You can't bring it back, even if you don't like the product, because you obviously have made an illegal copy of it.”

Gee, I wonder why they don’t take those games back anymore? Perhaps it’s because some assholes decided to pirate the games and then return them. But that’s not YOUR fault, now is it? Oh no. No single raindrop believes it’s to blame for the flood.

This is why I’m trying to convince you that what you’re doing is wrong, no matter how ineffective my attempts may be. Not because it’s illegal but because of the reason why it’s illegal. Because you don’t seem to see what’s wrong with what you’re doing. You’re being a leech and ruining it for the rest of that are actually providing the money for these games you’re enjoying to be made.

All this antipiracy measures, no return policy, and all the other bullshit that makes games harder to make and buy is the fault of you and people like you.

DocGonzo is a piece of shit. Whoop de doo, you know how to pirate. So do I. You are the worst rationalizer I've ever seen. The consumer has a choice to spend money or not to spend money. It's the ultimate choice in the entertainment market. It's ultimately your choice to open your wallet or not. However, legality aside, it IS wrong to take goods that were developed with the mentality of a certain value system (each and every developer on the team, the executives at Squeenix, the director, the writer, the composer, and so on) without paying the people responsible for the creation the price that they request. You lack an understanding of the very basic nature of business.

You also don't understand the concept of a return policy as it applies to entertainment goods. You can't bring a DVD back to Wal-Mart because you've already viewed the movie. It's the equivalent of trying to return movie tickets because you didn't like the movie. Unsatisfied with your purchase? Don't purchase a movie from that studio in the future. Your inability to grasp such a basic concept leads me to the conclusion that you're a complete mental invalid. Are you requesting a total guarantee of your personal value in the marketplace? There's a very easy way to get exactly what you pay for 100% of the time. Don't buy anything. Ever. Otherwise, there's ALWAYS going to be a disparity of cost and value. It's a very basic truth of doing business, since prices are not set at "value to you." Have you ever heard the words "value proposition?" Honestly, VLADIMIR FUCKING COLE has a better sense of business than you do.

How much an item is worth to YOU does not determine its price in the retail market. You want to buy a copy at your perceived value? Go to ebay, THAT'S an open market.

Personally, I will be downloading FF12 this evening, and then, as soon as the game is released, purchasing a full-price copy from a local retail establishment, whether or not I actually like the game after playing it (However, having played the demo, I find that highly unlikely). Surely there's no moral gripe there, is there?

Nobody's going to stop you from pirating, Gonzo, just like nobody's going to stop me from branding you a worthless piece of shit. Keep it up, dickless.

I'm suprised by all the haters. I have actually liked every FF game i have ever played. Sure there are some I like least, but still not bad games.

I even enjoyed X-2. I already prepaid for the CE version of XII but I am downloading it anyhow. *shrug

I had a good two pages of reasoned argument, but I just realized something.

"Personally, I will be downloading FF12 this evening, and then, as soon as the game is released, purchasing a full-price copy from a local retail establishment, whether or not I actually like the game after playing it (However, having played the demo, I find that highly unlikely). Surely there's no moral gripe there, is there?"

You're saying that you're going to steal this game, and play it for a few weeks. Therefore you are breaking the law just as much as I am, if not more. Stop the preaching.

What -I- am saying, is I do not know if I will like this game. So I'm going to try it out. If the game is good, I'll buy it when it comes out too, just like all the other games I OWN. But if it sucks, then I'm not going to pay for it later, and I'm not going to play it now. Surely there's no moral gripe there!

What happens when suddenly you realize that the entire game has only eight hours of storyline, and that Squarenix is fully expecting you to enjoy the new combat programming system so much you'll play it ten times longer? I'd be willing to bet you'll say 'hey, wait a minute, this game sucks! I'm not going to buy it!' You would never go and pay full price for something you know you don't want, and neither would I.

Gonzo: Once again, you're proving that you're a mental midget. No, what you said is that you were going to try it out, and then purchase it if it was worth it to you. You're going into the restaurant, ordering a meal, eating it, then, afterwards, deciding if it was worth it or not, and whether you're going to pay for it.

I'm downloading but NOT stealing, as as soon as the game is available, I will properly pay Squeenix for what I took. If I could send them $50 now to compensate for my download, I would. Appraisal of value happens BEFORE purchase, and Square has provided more-than-enough resources for you to make an educated decision prior to purchasing. I am downloading the game because I'm making my choice to purchase it NOW. It's clear that your brain lacks the ability to make complex moral judgments.

Q: The "ZOMG FF IS GHEY U HOMOZ" bandwagon is the new fad nowadays. It's some sort of backlash that I haven't been able to understand yet. I still love Squeenix's work.

Gah. Are you capable of basic math? You demoed the game, and now you want it. I'm demoing the game to decide if I want it. WE ARE THE SAME. I just manage to do it without buying a magazine (and supporting the advertising industry, another in my many reasoned decisions with regards to piracy).

If I went to a restaraunt to eat, and the food was something I didn't like, despite what the menu told me, I would send it back. Not, as you seem to think happens, eat the entire plate of bad food before claiming it wasn't any good and not paying for it.

“If I went to a restaraunt to eat, and the food was something I didn't like, despite what the menu told me, I would send it back. Not, as you seem to think happens, eat the entire plate of bad food before claiming it wasn't any good and not paying for it.”

“What -I- am saying, is I do not know if I will like this game. So I'm going to try it out. If the game is good, I'll buy it when it comes out too, just like all the other games I OWN. But if it sucks, then I'm not going to pay for it later, and I'm not going to play it now. Surely there's no moral gripe there!”



You seem to think that you have some divine right to quality if you spend money on something. You do not.

"Gah. Are you capable of basic math? You demoed the game, and now you want it. I'm demoing the game to decide if I want it. WE ARE THE SAME. I just manage to do it without buying a magazine (and supporting the advertising industry, another in my many reasoned decisions with regards to piracy).

If I went to a restaraunt to eat, and the food was something I didn't like, despite what the menu told me, I would send it back. Not, as you seem to think happens, eat the entire plate of bad food before claiming it wasn't any good and not paying for it."

First of all, considering that the FFXII demo disc was a pack-in with DQVIII to help drive sales of both games, unless it was packed in with some magazine (which I don't believe that it was, though I could be wrong) then even that is distributed as part of a value proposition.

Now, we're close to intelligence here. If, and ONLY if, you play the game up to the ending point of the demo, essentially sampling a very small portion, and then made a decision as to whether you would purchase or not, then it's the same thing, though without the supporting DQ8 purchase. I would not argue that playing the equivalent of a Jampack demo is particularly wrong. However, you're changing your argument mid-stream here. You claimed to be able to evaluate HOW much it was worth after playing the game. As soon as you get into the "full game," if you've downloaded and pirated it, you're "morally indebted" to Square Enix for $50. (Or whatever in your crazy Canadian monopoly money.)

If it TRULY is a simple "demo, test it for a second, then either pay $50 or never play it again," then I see very little wrong with that, as you could do the same in a retail kiosk. However, anything more, as you've been throwing around, appraising games and saying "well, this is worth $10 to me, I'll play the whole game and then buy it for $10 someday," is shit, plain and simple.

Not sure where you're gleaning stuff from, YLB, but whatever. I myself just find it very odd to consider a functionally limited, usually VERY different game experience as a perfect indication of what is in the final game.

As to assigning worth...its not a complex system really. Either a game is worth my time to play, in which case its worth the money to buy, or it isn't worth it, which means I'm not playing it and I'm not buying it. I'm not saying, "okay, -this- game is worth $38.42, but -this- one is only worth $17.94" - its either worth its price or its not.

Pretty basic economics, really...creating a product and selling it for a price that people would be willing to pay. Personally I think that the entire industry is overpriced, and that far more profit margin could be had at a lower overall price point, but hey. I'm not much for math.

Agh. Two posts eaten. I love this blogging system.

How much of the meal do you consume before you judge its worth? One hour? Five hours? Half the game? Then, if you decide the game isn't worth $50, do you never play your pirated copy again? Obviously you can't send back a half-eaten steak. There's a point where it's reasonable, but there's a point where it goes way past that line as well.

The issue of games being overpriced is a valid one, one of the many problems the industry faces, but not justification for piracy, and thus, a discussion for another time.

Lawsuit?

I heard that Square Enix is preparing and filing a lawsuit against certain sites and naming John Doe Defendants.

The idea is that Square Enix will sue the site, then get the ISPs and names of the downloaders and seeders through further discovery.

Is this possible? If (hypothetically) I downloaded and seeded, then will the bittorrent site give up my ISP and name?!

The only way i can justify piracy is if you dont have the money or its not out in which case you download it to get it earlier, then when you can you buy it so your not completely ripping them off. I downloaded heaps of songs but now I don't have any songs on my computer, yet i have thousands of songs on cd.

I think one of the bloggers here should revisit this topic under the heading of the yays/nays of piracy. I may not have the power to throw all the curse words around like some of the sailors do here, but the subject does make for a really good debate topic between gamers.

For those of you who don't think the game is worth $40/50/60 dollars and download a pirated version of it instead, YOU are the @$$HOLES that cause the game to COST $40/50/60 dollars....because they have to charge a higher cost to the people who legitamately buy the game. And I hope you all become waiters at a restaurant who never get tipped, then you'll understand why you should pay people for their hard work/effort. f***ers.

Well, I downloaded it and played it and really loved to do so before it was out. 1Up can burn in hell, because I just went out and bought the Collectors Edition after playing the pirated copy. If no copy was out there i would have never even thought twice about it, the art and design of the people in the game sucks, but thankfully the gameplay made up for that big time.