PS3: Dual Shake is dead, long live Sixaxis

Sony you are a tool.

Their Remote uses bluetooth. Every other remote uses IR. Sooo good luck using a Universal Remote with it or being able to simply turn down your TV volume with it. Its not compatable with ANYTHING. Thats for trying to stuff another format down our throats.

Ohhh and its coming out a month after the PS3 is released. Brilliant.

#74

Stealth bombers exist, yet YOU cannot buy one....nuff said

DVD huh..... Don’t need more disc space? Why didn’t 360 or original xbox just use regular old cd player??? Oh that’s right they needed more space. An often refuted quote of Bill Gates was "Nobody will ever need more than 640K of Ram".......just because you can not see the inherit benefit of additional space does not mean it is unnecessary. The addition of the soon to be released, which, using your logic non-existent, Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on does lead credibility to the decision by Sony to include a higher capacity media reader with their unit. You could argue that Sony is trying to ram their proprietary format down your throat, and I could argue that MS is making me pony up more money to make my Premium 360 complete by releasing an add-on instead of just including it in the unit. MS and Sony are multifaceted businesses and retailers. They exist to make money. They make money by selling products. If you do not want it, don't buy it.

And the Blu-ray is not just Sony's product. Blu-ray just like DVD was a joint effort among many manufacturers including Philips, Samsung, TDK, Pioneer and more. To say it is Sony’s proprietary format is the same as saying DVD is Sony's proprietary format considering they were also one of the founding members of the DVD consortium and a major player in the development of the DVD format.

PS3 doesn't use IR at all, so why make the remote be IR when the console doesn't even have IR? It doesn't make sense.

You know, it still baffles me how Sony can get away with this garbage. The original Playstation came out in 1994 with a controller that was a complete rip off of the original SNES pad. Extended handles (which don't fit the contours of your hand and are largely uncomfortable) and two extra shoulder buttons don't count as innovation when your button layout is identical to your competitors. 1996 rolls around, Nintendo introduces analog control and rumble for first time in console controllers. Game play was changed forever. I don't want to hear any Sony fanboys discredit these two innovations because we all know what happened next. Sony immediately jumped on the bandwagon and crammed two analog sticks and rumble into a controller that was not designed for them in the first place. 12 yrs later, after all the Sony fanboys and dick riding industry insiders claimed the Dual Shock as the "best controller ever" Sony is taking a step backwards with the PS3 controller. A half assed, last minute rip off of the wii remote, while compromising rumble which has a huge impact on game play is not innovative. It's amazing how they can take a step backwards in this regard without ever having took that first step forward. We are still using the same Playstation controller going on a decade and a half. With Sony's plan to keep the PS3 in production for 10 yrs, we will be going on 20 plus yrs of the same controller. What a Joke. To put this into perspective, imagine playing Gamecube with an NES pad. Ridiculous right? well that's exactly what Sony is doing. You'd think, Sony, with all of it's resources would put some financial backing into some R&D for their games division. But they dont, or at least their efforts dont show it. With a huge install base they probably feel they don't have to. They're too busy gouging gamers to push their movie disision. Thats why i'm glad the advancement of the video game industry does not depend on Sony, the so called "leader". As far as gaming in concerned they don't lead shit. Has Sony ever showed any drive in advancing what gaming means? Selling 100 million units does nothing but inflate their ego's. Sony has been riding a wave for the last 12yrs that someone else began. That wave is gonna come crashing down hard in the near future. Pardon the rant.

There are six axes in 3D space. 3 rotational axes and 3 translation axes. Ask anyone who has a five axis C&C machine. With two sensors properly placed, you can tell rotation from translation, so you get six real axes.

Yes, MS tried this in the 90s. This is not the 90s. The technology on the gyroscopic sensors has improved greatly since then, and more importantly is a lot cheaper now.

The poster is correct that long-term errors will accumulate. And this is why N uses a sensor bar to detect position. Developers will just have to not use the controller for things it doesn't do well.

To Anonymouse Rep and Laughing Target, if I meant Xbox 360 when talking about the remote, I would have said Xbox 360, like I did with the very first word of my post referring to NiMH batteries. I was referring to the original Xbox in the latter part hence my use of the name "Xbox".

Yes, the 360 can be turned on and off from the remote and the controller and it is wonderful. MS has set the new standard on this and no new console should be made without this feature. And this is why I mentioned it in relation to the PS3.

Additional note, why would I have to replace my controller every 3/4 months? NiMHs last a long time, even under heavy use. If a Prius can go 5 years with NiMH batteries, this thing can go at least two.

@snoopaloop
That just about sums it up. Well done my friend!

@ #1OO snoopaloop,

correction, thats SHIPPED 100 million units ;)

as for the rest of your post, give this guy a freakin star right now, he deserves it.

fo' shizazzle!

Sick Asses?

What a dumb name!

Um...Mr. Truth. The 360 controller is the Sega Dreamcast(Cough, best system ever, cough) controller.

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/651/651988/tgs-2005-our-love-affair-with-the-xbox-360-controller-20050918005748647-000.jpg
http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/dc.jpg

You know what I was just thinking, how funny will it be playing the original MGS on the PS3 and nothing happening when the controller is supposed to shake in the game. Lame.

@Tony - Sorry to burst your bubble, but from your own post:

"We also include a lot of data in the form of game movies in both HD and PAL formats, high quality audio streams for all supported languages and some of those Insomniac “extras” that our fans have come to expect."

Game movies in two formats, multiple audio tracks and other extras? And what do you think contributes most to those 22GB of space?

Or when you're cued to switch controller ports, but the PS3 has none!

SNAKE: But... but... there are NO controller ports!!! Nooo---

Snake! Snake? SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!

Anyways, yay for pallendromes.

#100

Actually, Atari was the first to market with a controller with an ANALOG stick when they released the Atari 5200 in 1982....a considerable amount of time before Nintendo and all others did. So I guess we can say everyone ripped off Atari...... just trying to help keep teh facts straight!

I can't believe it! Sony has taken the three dimensional world and added three new dimensions! Six axes? And this whole time I've been living in only three dimensions? I fear that I haven't really been living! Only Sony has the power to double the amount of dimensions I thought we lived in!

Seriously, how stupid could this name be? "Oh, the z-axis, y-axis and x-axis just won't cut it for naming this sweet controller. Let's make sure that we use the NEGATIVE z-axis, y-axis and x-axis for the name too. Then it will be unstoppable! HA HA HA!"

Considering the fact that no matter how you orient position on an axis system, you still end up with three axes for three dimensional space, this name just reeks of consumer trickery. "Oh, but mommy it has six axes instead of three! That's three new axes!" But why stop there?
A Playstation UberPowerful1000XPtotheInfinityPower sounds so much cooler than the measly PS3.

K, I'm back.. wow not much happened. Post #100 was nice. If that was a bit less.. congested, it would have been the perfect read ^^.

Anyways, you know how people take off the first "e" in words that start with "ex" like "Xtreme!" and the like.. Maybe that sixaxis thing is short for "Sony Is Xcrement... Axis" Meh, was worth a shot d=.

Goddamn fanboys. I don't care which console or PR executive you're sexually aroused by - every one of you is equally as disgusting and greazy in my eyes.

@fanbot

god! youre a moron.

six axis means six degree of freedom. not it can navigate through six dimensions. x,y,z axis are the first 3 axis. yaw, pitch and roll are another 3 axis.
even a car that moves in x-y plane can have 100000++ axis. because they may have 100000++ actuators that work independently.

that's what you got from getting a art/lingustic/business/social science degree.

It amuses me how many people on both sides use "but you've never played either" as an argument in their own favor.

Couple things - Yes, it's really 6 axis - movement and rotation in x, y, and z. Yes, it's relative instead of absolute, with the exception of gravity telling you what 'down' is. That's fine, it's still useful.

In fact it's exactly the same tech that's in the wiimote. The only difference is the wiimote has an additional, unrelated camera on front (part of that additional cost) that's hooked to a chip that gives absolute XY screen coordinates. There's no absolute full 3d space positioning. So for games like excitetruck or sonic, the PS3 should be capable of exactly the same functionality as the Wii. Hell, I can buy the parts from digikey and make my own. It's the pointer camera that's important to Wii, and that's what they've got an impenetrable wall of patents around.

So the SIXAXIS will be quite capable. MS bashed it because MS is the master of FUD.

Also, TRUTH - controler quality is relative to the game. From my experience, mouse+kbd is terrible for fighters.

Also also, Wild Holmes - Oblivion is 95% heightmaps and 5% standard models that are reused many times. The entire world is very data-sparse. I'm sure whatever game it was that takes 22 gigs has very data-dense world models that aren't generic and repetative. Even if the movies and sound tracks are half of the data, even then the levels still wouldn't fit on a DVD. It's easy to fill available space, stop being so incredulous that anyone could use more than 8 gigs. Could they make it smaller? Yes, at the cost of a little quality and development time.

Yaw, Pitch and Roll are not 3 seperate axis, they are a way to move through the 3 axis (x,y,z) so the agruement about the name are valid. Also it has been mentioned before but I don't know about the idea of holding a Sony battery in my hands.

here u go sony boys. how is motion controler so next gen when it was done for the ps1 and had rumble. any way here the video watch for urself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cOBtMMWteA

No JFink, Yaw Pitch and Roll are 3 separate axis. Yawing, Pitching and Rolling doesn't move you through the other translational axis at all. You can roll all you want, and you don't move at all on the other axis. Again, ask someone with a 5-axis C&C machine. Ask someone who does 3D modelling and has to position objects on 6 axis in space.

Sony didn't create additional axis here, it is accepted scientific/engineering info.

The batteries in this remote are NiMH, not LIon, so don't worry about it blowing up.

so fanboys, how si the sixaxis revolutionary? seems to been done and done with rumble befor.

no reply?

well heres the video again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cOBtMMWteA

rofl suxasix

So Lefty are you suggesting then that Nintendo copied Sony?

Joystiq claims that the BD remote control will be available at launch. Yet, I quote the very same engadget post they link to:

"Thing is, the PS3 is shipping in Japan on November 11th but the remote won't pop until December 7th for about ¥3,600 (about $31), a move that will surely live in infamy."

Which is it??? Available at launch or not??

idesignit

pelican made that controler not sony. next ms hd one as well.

and i coudl care less who copies who i just wnat rumble in my sixaxis. if it had rumble i would praise it for being next gen giving us these possibilited but for now its a numbing feeling to play gt3 or any other racer with out rumble.

once again a motion controler with rumble or the ps1. whats so revolutionary bout the sixaxis when it canlt even comepte with this controler which has rumble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cOBtMMWteA

Sorry couldnt see who made it because youtube is blocked at work.......

As for racing games I truely prefer force feedback wheels and a set of good pedals over a controller anyday rumble or no rumble; however, it is very difficult to truly play an immersive racing game with a controller without rumble...

OK, got bored after the first 50 comments. Only things I want to add/say is this.

SolarDonky: I don't see a reason to buy a "special charging cable". (sorry, if those aren't your exact words.) That is a standard USB cable plug on the controller, and I'm sure the USB on the PS3 is standard, so you can use any cable you wanna buy, or already own.

2. Thanks for the pic of the remote to poster 50...it makes me very very sad, though...the remote SHOULD use standard IR, or some failry standard RF, not Bluetooth...I don't know a single universal remote that will copy a bluetooth signal, so now I would need two remotes? Terrible!! Unless they have an IR port for us universal remote users. Then to have bluetooth as it's primary is fine, just a choice, and better for having the box behind a media-cabinet door...if that's how you roll...but, sheesh...I think the bluetooth is not a great way to go with the remote functions, at all.

I don't know about you, but Sixaxis is nowhere near the worst name ever conceived for game-related equipment. (The verdict's still unclear about the Wii, but it's still generally caused the most "WTF" comments in a short-term period of time. Though Sixaxis might still remain lame in the long term, but we also said the same for Wii.)

Sonrics - Comment about six axis...

It's true there are only orthogonal 3 axes in space, but its generally accepted to give rotation an added "axis" as a reference in sensing devices. Devices like a airplane yoke. So, the controller name is just getting across that you can move all directions and rotate.

To comments about how sensitive it can be, you'd be surprised. Specifically about the rubber duck demo, what it "controlling" the rubber duck, like pushing it around, or "representing" the rubber duck? If it was to be representing the duck, then your comment is valid, if it is controlling it, i.e. just pushing it around, causing to to dip, roll, etc, then I see no problem with the duck spinning around. Would you really want to have to entirely rotate a controller around in your hand to have a character onscreen turn around?

I'm just going to wait until I use it to see how it works. I don't think they have any intention to use it as a pointer like the Wii-mote, just a controller that can cause motion-based inputs. It's very likely it has rate-sensors in the unit, not positional sensors. And with rate and time, you can tell relative position from where it started. All sorts of devices use rate sensors, from cars to airplanes, to laptop PCs which sense if it is dropped to turn off the hard-drive...they can be had for cheap, and for a game be pretty accurate for cheap.

That controller is going to be laughed out of the biz.
Sony's attempt to ape Nintendo (once again) is not going to go over like they think it will.

And it's all because of the shape of the controller.
A wand-like remote is the best form for that intuitive motion-sensing. One hand. One arm controlling the motion. Buttons resting naturally where the fingers/thumbs can best reach them without strain. And maintain good grip on the controllers at the same time.

But THIS. No.
Your hands are still GRIPPED onto the grips of the controller & if you try to move AND press buttons at same time you won't be as accurate. Especially the way those old SNES derived controls are set up.
Your movement makes you grip more & the buttons do not naturally line up with the hands' natural holding position on the controller.

PLUS you have two hands fighting with each other on the same controller. One pulls dragging the other locked onto the same control. It will be very very uncomfortable & people will stop using this awkward setup. Grip your PS2 controller & imitate motion sensing by moving the control. You will begin to feel pain in the "ball" area on your wrists after doing this for a while.
This is probably why Microsoft's Sidewinder wasn't a success & wasn't used by Microsoft for their XBoxes.

Sony after the Wii becomes the phenomenon it's destined to be will most definitely try to redesign this control & match yet another Nintendo-made standard. They will make it more like Nintendo's cooperative but independent hand-fitting controls. And by then it will be obvious who leads the industry in new directions: Nintendo.

The Sixaxis was Sony's first admittance of fear toward the Wii project. It was a desperate, half-assed, poorly thought-out, tacked on idea designed to one-up Nintendo at E3. All they've done is validated Nintendo's place as leader & set the stage for the Wii to run away with this generation.

Sony is fighting out of fear towards both Microsoft AND Nintendo. They are beginning to seem like a man trapped in an alley paranoid of the arrival of his attackers. Big Money Microsoft is playing this "Kill Sony" game for more than the obvious reasons. And Old Timer Nintendo is about to reclaim what is theirs with Wii.
Sony's a trapped man & as time goes on the desperation will show.

The 7th generation is gonna surprise many people.
John Lucas

What exactly is meant by Six Axis anyway? The way I see it there are only 3 axis: Pitch, Yaw, and Roll.

Ok, fine, you don't like how gears of war is turning out. You'd rather play resistance fall of man. Lets remember that niether of these games has been reviewed, the press is swooning for GoW and resistance, while looking good...I'm just not seeing anything special about it.

But I mean, if Halo has taught us one thing it's that making a great shooting game is all about the fine-tuned details, the details you don't see from trailers and can't appreaciate until you play the game. Epics been making shooter for a lot longer than insomniac has been, so I'll give them the nod for having the street cred to make this work. That said, even if resistance is better than GoW, how can it stand up to the juggernaught that is Halo 3?

As for the PS3 pwning the xbox in general, well...If it owns the 360 then why doesn't it have Mass effect, Halo 3, BioShock, the next splinter cell exclusive after double agent, exclusive GTA IV content that you wont be able to get on the PS3 and a controller with rumble.

"But the PS3 will kill the 360 when it comes to multiplatform games!" Well then why will the 360 version of Assasins Creed feature smarter crowd AI. Epic isn't just making Gears of War...Unreal Tournament 2007 is coming to the PS3 (not the 360). It uses the same engine as GoW, yet epics own president has said that GoW looks better than any first gen PS3 game (and it's easy to see why just by looking at the screenshots).

But dispite all of this, I think the PS3 is a good console. I love GT an I can't wait to see what Naughty Dog is cooking up next. Why do I say this? Because while I'm a fan of the 360, I'm not a fanboy. I can acknowlege the strengths of the other systems out there.

That said, I think when it comes to games the Xbox 360 is looking the best. When it comes to a cool idea that could turn into something huge, I give nintendo street cred for the Wii. And when it comes to the uber high end hometheater equipment I think the PS3 wins.

They all their strength and weaknesses - buy to your needs and wants, but don't flame other people for liking a different platform. We are lucky to have 3 such high end peices of hardware coming into the market.

Damnnn that's sucks... I'm deaf person... Fuck you fuck sony you know why? Cuz sony, you very very a ignoring rumble. I'm not buy ps3 shit, screw you! I'm already deaf person can feeling sense notice on the vibration like sensor. And I can tell that sony is asshole, sony is getting scared of deaf milllion people. If I play ps3 use on the sixaxis its make me confuse without vibration my sense mind... Now how about closed captioning? If sony and you don't like "closed captioning" deaf million people. well well fuck you fuck sony, how did I heard? That's fuck ridiculous!!! I kick you, sony ass! I demand on sony shit! That's why sony isn't pay attention on million deaf gamers out there. I'm sure that ms xbox 360 respectful of million deaf gamers, I thanks ms x360 have vibration, immersion (touchsense) (I buy wii and x360 I'm owner x360, wii) uh! Sony is dumbass! You too!

It's clear from the comments here that some people do not understand the 6 axes, or understand the capabilities and limitations of the accelerometer-based PS3 controller. But don't blame the people who don't understand.

Sony is banking on people's ignorance. Sony is trying to confuse people into thinking the PS3 controller is comparable to the Wii controller. Sony is trying to convince people that they need HDMI to experience high definition graphics. Sony is trying to trick people into thinking that the Cell processor powerful because it has 7 "cores". Sony has gone to a lot of trouble to use ambiguous terminology and meaningless jargon that they know most of their customers won't understand. And it has worked. I've overheard adolescent boys (from a nearby school) talking about how great the PS3 will be; they don't have a clue about what they are talking about, they just assume 7 "cores" are better than 3.

Hmmm, 42$ for what's basically a wireless dual shock 2 WITHOUT rumble feature and people have the balls to complain because of Nintendo charging 40$ for the wiimote and 20$ extra for the nunchuk.

Wow, the name "Sixaxis" makes Wii sound GOOD.

where the hell internal rechargeable usb 2.0 support batter life? i don't need AA batter this a waste of time i buy everyday AA batter in my wallet "money" hell no way and like cell phone and ipod support internal rechargeable usb 2.0 in batter life (no AA batter!). do ps3 controller support AA batter? no!. Do ps3 controller support rechargeable usb 2.0 batter life? yes! look at sony ps3 is fuck up! sony ps3 dumbass! sony is ps3 asshole! easy for save money get to internal rechargeable usb 2.0 in batter life with vibration... nothing happened! is that i am smart than sony. It's must setting option switch rumble on or off!!!!

And hours later...joystick and engadget are still in DIRECT conflict on the launch date of the BD controller.

Sixaxis WTF? What kind of name is that? Somebody please! let Nintendo know that someone else has come out with a more stupid name. God, I thought Wii was bad, where in the hell did you come out with the name? I swear Sony got hit on the head with the stupid stick or something. I dont care if its to describe its new fuctionality its a stupid name period. And please join me, in bowing our heads down in shame.

I swear Sony WTF were you thinking!

Christ! they're selling blu-ray movie feature and don't even give you a fkn remote. all these systems are the same in that you need a bunch of stuff straight up to get the most out of them. I'm thinking 360 needed xlive, battery charger and headset and wii needs 2nd controller and maybe component cable. So don't forget to factor that in because the companies sure didn't.