Wii "hardware is basically a GC," says Miyamoto [update 1]

great...a $250 controller.

See comment #1, Blake. That's why.

The question says "price controversy aside"

599 US DOLLARS

I wonder what he means;

Hardware for developers? So, programming for it will be practically (if not) the same as for GC?

Or does he really mean; computer/technical performance?

So why is everybody getting hyped up about the Wii when it is basically no different than the GameCube?

Seems kind of a waste of money to me.

The GBA, DS, let you do something you couldn't do easily with a SNES or a N64. Let you play them on the go.

The WII is still a console. You play it diffrently but as the people above. If this was there plan why don't thy just release a wiimote for teh gamecube...

Ok then why not sell it for 150?

People like superhookie fail to read the part where you say "This is not to say Wii won't scale in the graphics department," they just see the comparison to the GC architecture and make stupid comments.

Most kids don't know enough about hardware to understand how the Wii can be similar to the GC yet better at the same time.

"So launch price controversy aside, why do so many seem to make a fuss over the Wii being "basically" a GameCube?"

Because, in your two examples (GBA=SNES, DS=N64) you're talking about handhelds with the power of consoles. Now you're talking about a next(new)-gen console compared to last(old)-gen console. GBA was a step up from GB, DS was a Step up from GBA. If Wii is a gamecube, what is it a step up from?

Don't get me wrong. I for one fully believe that consoles have gotten a full gen ahead of themselves. I made this argument with PC games long ago, if we keep pushing the technological barrier with end user equipment, the costs will keep rising. PC games have hit a point of diminishing returns. I believe consoles in the next gen (PS3) are gonna get very close to the point of diminishing returns, if they haven't already.

Wii is the reality check. It will use cheap, last gen technology, refined into a smaller, more efficient package, with a revolutionary control system. If this is enough for them to plunge ahead with lots of success, I believe the next-next gen will have great graphics, cheap(er) hardware, and a new standard in control.

This is why it was codenamed 'Revolution'.

The two examples you cite are not comparable. Those are examples of consoles being turned into portables, so those accomplishments are greater than going from GameCube to Wii.

599 US DOLLARS

lol when I read that I almost fell out of my chair.

RIIIIIDGE RAAAACER

By "basically a GameCube" that means a PowerPC CPU and an ATI GPU, with full backwards compatibility. It doesn't have anything to do with power... just architecture.

in your face to all the nintendo guys that came down on me because i said the wii was a gamecube 1.2

how are you going to spin this on huh?

you are paying 250 when you should be paying 150, go ahead

You guys posted about this in August. You just used a different translation.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/21/wii-zelda-gets-some-major-changes/

Here's the last paragraph from that post:

"According to IGN, Miyamoto also told Nintendo Dream that Nintendo may remake existing GameCube titles and add full Wiimote support. 'The machine is based on GC,' said Miyamoto. 'We'll be upgrading the development tools, but GameCube code can be used for the most part as is. In that sense, I believe that it would be good to remake GameCube games for Wii, and that some titles would become better with the change to the Wii remote controller.'"

yes, that hardware is 100% backwards compatible
that doesn't mean that this is all it is
Miyamoto is not a hardware engineer, he is a software developer and "idea" man

I wonder if the wi-fi built-in to the Wii will emualte a broadband adapter when running GC mode. If not, then it's not 100% backwards compatible because I can't play Phantasy Star Online 1&2, 1&2+ and 3:Card Revolution. No to mention LAN mode on Mario Kart:Double Dash, Kirby's Air Ride and 1080 Snowboarding.

if you consider... the xbox360 charges 100$ for wifi

so 100$...
say 70$ for beefed up GC hardware
60$ for controllers(with built in memory, speaker in remote, rumble, motion sensors, pointer)...
20$ for wii sports
now throw in built in 512mb memory
you have... 250$


"but but why is it hyped if its a gc"
that almost answers its own question... by failing to address that it's the most technologically advanced console in terms of motion, and efficiency
which according to sony , motion is "in"

The $250 price would be a little easier to swallow if it at least did 720p or 1080i. Is too much to expect HD in the HD era?

Um, no - the GBA wasn't 'basically' a SNES. It used a different CPU. It was easy to port games and it had graphical power on a par with the SNES, but that was it. For details, check:

http://www.gameboy-advance.net/emulated/snes_roms_on_gba.htm

The DS isn't an N64, either: N64 = 93.75 MHz NEC VR4300 (info), based on MIPS R4300i-series 64-bit RISC CPU w/ SGI Reality graphics coprocessor system. DS = ARM9 CPU @ 67MHz, etc.

So yeah, the Wii being a GC is kind of a first, even for Nintendo (unless you count the Gameboy Micro as a 'next gen' system over the GBA). Maybe the Virtual Boy qualifies as a warmed over Gameboy with 3D?

Because the GBA and DS are "basically" portables. The Wii, like superhookie said, is just a streamlined GC with a different controller. Why does it have to cost $150 more than a GC? At least with the 360 and PS3 you know why you're paying so much.

I realize that the $250 price point is one of maximum profit (most likely), and that's what a business is supposed to do. It's just frustrating to think that at $200, they would most likely still be making a good profit on every console sold.

@ reguy

It's the same architecture, not power.

How much simpler does this need to be stated for you guys?

Saying it's a gamecube is only architecture-based. It's obviously more powerful.

Analogous to my current bleeding edge PC. It's not a PC 360, a PC7, or anything. It's a PC, same as the last one I had 5 years ago. The software than ran on PCs 5 years ago still run on modern hardware. This is the same as Wii. GC games run on Wii, Wii games don't run on GC. Just like bleeding edge PC games wouldn't run on my last PC 5 years ago.

Blake, come on now, where is your head at?

"This is not to say Wii won't scale in the graphics department, but logically not as much as the 360 or PS3 will."

If by logic you mean "stupidity," then you're correct. There's NO reason why having an existing architecture means you can't scale as much.

By your (completely moronic) argument, all X86 chips (you do know what those are, right?) wouldn't "scale graphically" as well as the move from 68000 to PowerPC.

What Miyamoto was ACTUALLY saying, was that because the architecture is the same, all the programs and routines that were built for the GameCube could be REUSED under the current system, making development massively easier. Reading comprehension is a good skill to have when you're a journalist/blogger/whatthefuckever. That has nothing to do with "the Wii is about as powerful as a GameCube," or "it won't be as huge of a jump" or whatever Camel you're planning on threading into the needle.

It just means it TAKES THE SAME CODE, so they don't have to start at square one. Is this site totally overrun by idiots?

You know...I really have to give respect to Miyamoto.

In times like these where the "other two" PR deptartments are fucking up EVERYTHING they say with overhyped nonsense...

Miyamoto humbly says...."Yes....the other two consoles are the BETTER choice for graphics."

He practically runs Nintendo and is more logical and aware of REALITY than most fanboys.

I really respect that. It also shows a TON of confidence in what Wii DOES have to offer - a totally different experience.

The point about this being common for Nintendo is deceptive. It's common on the software front, but Nintendo generally doesn't reuse hardware architecture to the extent of the Wii.

The DS may be similar in power to the N64, but the architecture is wildly different. Even more so for the GBA. The GBA (which is considerably *more* powerful than the SNES in everything except for sound, by the way) is absolutely nothing like the SNES in terms of hardware. It is basically a 32-bit RISC processor, supported by a secondary logic unit based on the GBC hardware, which pushes audio and video through software. The SNES had a much slower (and very different) 16-bit CPU, and had robust audio and video hardware subsystems, which the GBA lacks. Plus, due to the weakness of the SNES' main CPU, a large number of SNES games also relied on *additional* logic chips in the games themselves.

So calling the GBA "basically a SNES" is faulty logic, especially when you're making a case about Nintendo reusing designs. They achieve similar results, but one does it through a complex array of specialized hardware, and the other does it with a simpler, more efficient hardware design that can then push more through software.

A much better example would be Sega, and how they basically recycled the MasterSystem into the Game Gear. The Game Gear is MasterSystem architecture, miniaturized and with an extended color palette. If you get or build a pin adapter, you can even run MasterSystem cartridges natively on the Game Gear.

So PS3 and 360 owners are paying twice as much as their launch XBOX and PS2, and only really getting a graphics push. By the logic of people who say Wii should only be the price of a current GC, then PS3 and 360 should really only be the price of their launch counterparts.

Dan (#9) nailed it. That's what the problem is. This is different than the GBA and DS because those took the capabilities of home consoles and made them portable. That's cool. That's revolutionary.

The Wii takes the capabilities of a home console and adds a new controller. While the controller itself is pretty exciting, why not add more than just a new controller? How about some new hardware from the ground up?

So would people be happy if we still had NES graphics but an "awesome revolutionary control method" each generation? I see no problem with the way games are turning out, why change and charge a ridiculous high premium on top of that? I see this as one off generation of consoles, next time I cant see the same thing happening again.

@ Yoshi Likes Boys

Yes. This site is FULL of idiots. There's no way to make them read. Just give up.

Wii is a Gamecube with

A) A processor with twice the power

B)Twice the IT-RAM

c)More storage from Standard DVD9

d) Built in WiFi

e) 512MBs of on board RAM

f) SD Card slot

g) Full backwards compatibility , mem cards included.

h) Controller

i) More powerful GPU

So what's the problem? It's built similar to the GC as we all now but is it an actual gamecube. No. Not with those specs. Get a clue people. Calm down...there's nothing to see here, move along...

See? This is why I haven't upgraded my computer since my 12mhz 286. All newer processors are just all derivative of that. If all of the new processors are still backwards compatable, why get a new one?

If it was a portable gamecube LIKE THE GBA AND DS then it would be nice. You can't compare it to GBA and DS because they're portable systems. This is a console that's going to sit under a gigantic TV in my family room. I want it to have next-gen graphics and technology.

"Is this site totally overrun by idiots?"

Not yet, but he is working on it: http://www.joystiq.com/bloggers/vladimir-cole/

BWAHAHAHAHA!! So no where's all the haters who attacked me when I posted the following hypothetical conversation that led to the development of Wii the other day?
---------------------

Ninty Exec 1: AH SHIT, just saw the lastest numbers
guys Gamecube sales are in the toilet!! I mean Sony is just *humiliating* us sales wise.

Ninty Exec 2: Crap. You know what that means, we're gonna be stuck with a whole load of unused gamecube CPUs...

Ninty Exec 3: Hey, I have an idea so crazy it just might work! Let's see if we can't overclock those cpus a bit, get ATI to throw together a cheap graphics chip, and re-release them as a new 'next generation' system.

Ninty Exec 2: Are bleeding nuts mate? Do you really thing anyone is going to re-buy essentially the same console?

Ninty Exec 1: You have to be kidding me... it will work just fine. We'll get the boys in marketing to think up a few new gimmicks, maybe something we've already done and can re-brand on the cheap, like the powerglove (guffaws), and a few new buzzwords for 'features' we'll invent... like.. oh, I don't know, something stupid like how it can be left on forever (loud laughter), or how you can make a custom stick figure version of the player and use it in mini games.

Ninty Exec 2: I still don't think they'll buy it... come on that would be the biggest scam anyone ever pulled in the history of videogames..

Ninty Exec 3: Look mate, you know as well as I do that if we put Zelda and Mario on this thing, and throw Miyamoto up on stage to explain how its all his idea, how it will "revolutionize gaming" (more guffaws), our fans will eat it up!

Ninty Exec 2: Well I guess you're right... still, don't you think its kind of... er... WRONG, to mislead our customers like that?

Ninty Exec 1: HA! Nothing wrong about it, our fans are fans of Nintendo the company, they want us to do well so they can keep living in the Mario/Zelda/Princess toadstoll fantasyland they have been living in since they were kids. Anything that lets them keep living that lie and refusing to grow up and face reality will be welcomed with open arms. We've got them by the short and curlies here, so lets not spoil a good thing.
-------------------------------

VINDICATED!!

Not to call you all stupid or anything, but the computers you're all typing these posts on are just supped up versions of an 8086. And that mouse in your hand was a gimmick at one time too. How much did that computer cost, even though it's the same thing as 30 years ago?

Too many morons here, what he is most likely talking about is the general architecture of the system being the same. That is perfectly reasonable and not at all telling of how powerful it may actually be.

Look at it this way, he is saying the same software that worked on the Gamecube will also work on the Wii, both developer and game software. Incase you havn't noticed a computer from 1995 that could run windows 95 and a computer from today can still run windows 95 without any problems. That means that essentially they are the same hardware, the real difference are things like clock speed and memory sizes.

Same situation with the Gamecube most likely. Same architecture and can run the same stuff, just the clock speeds and memory have been increased. Doesn't mean the Wii isn't worthy of the price Nintendo is asking at all.

@ azn

You. Are. Retarded.

The computer you're using right now to be so retarded is running on the same architecture computers have been running on for years and years.

Same architecture does NOT equal same hardware.

Numbnuts.

Yoshi Likes boys,

You are so right(!), it actually hurts by brain to think otherwise. I think his point was more along the lines of the simplicity in transition. You cannot *assume* that all Wii games will be Gamecube copies and there won't be any improvemnt in gfx or AI.

Even then, some developers (including capcom - see resident evil) said the Gamecube still had room to grow.

It's a moronic sony fanboy mis-quote. Miyamoto ACTUALLY said:

"The Wii is based on GC"

And some Kotaku chimp has dug up a Babelfish based translation (of the same old interview) that incorrectly interprets the same phrase as:

"The Wii is basically a GC"

I'm starting to see why people are getting pissed off by these retarded blogs...

This is both good and bad. Good for anyone familiar with developing for the GameCube. Bad for anyone who didn't previously develop for the GameCube, or wishes to port their application easily. Right now you can port your PS2 or Xbox application, but I have to wonder in the long run, if that'll be the case. Obviously that won't be the case for 1st party titles. Also-- if developer support waned the first time around, will it happen again? Is a change in how you control your system enough to bring people back? We'll have to see. I think Nintendo is offering a enough new items to make it compelling, such as the always on connection, channels, and the virtual console.

Ultimately, I think their existing customers are likely Wii buyers, but it's non Nintendo crowd which will be the ones they'll have to see if they can convince.

"So launch price controversy aside, why do so many seem to make a fuss over the Wii being "basically" a GameCube?"

Because they have to find something to fuss about. Simple as that.

You know, there was a time when people bought new hardware to get the new games. Here's some new hardware (yes related to the old in basic architecture) with some neat games that were not possible on the previous one.

And, make now mistake, Nintendo could not just add a wii-mote to the gamecube. The sensor bar needs a whole lot more circuitry than a mere joystick port, in order to be of any use/accurate. There are lots of improvements to merit the wii as a new machine, independent of the gamecube (ie: console designed for online, greater storage capacity w/ slot load, integrated community and online services, beefier horsepower, etc). Besides, add-ons don't sell, hardware does.

Again, look at how different the games will be. That's what truly matters. Folks are too focussed on hardware and forget that it's the interaction that matters, above all else. We may yet see a return to what gaming is truly about.

Here's an even better question: why do gamers care about the systems that other people purchase? Why can't each of us just get what we like and be content? What's with the thought control and stone casting? Are gamers that desperate for market approval and the sense of fitting in?

It sure will be embarrassing for Sony when the PS3 is being out sold by a "Gamecube 1.2"

You know it's gonna happen...

The DS is much weaker than the N64, it's more like a GBA with a stylus gimmick but you're correct about Nintendo selling the same thing as a new thing under different names like the have with the Game Boy, the "Play it Loud" Game Boy, the Game Boy "Pocket", and the Game Boy "Light". These were all in essence the same thing repackaged. From 1989 all the way to 1998 (nearly a decade) the GameBoy had no significant changes to its computing power.

Post # 29, you are just about the only one that makes sense here (there are a few others) but you also forgot about the extremely cool

Wii Channels
Virtual Console
and WiiConnect24

features that makes this, imo, a console that is much more than what GameCube was

The Wii ain't low-tech, kids. Let's look at what they're charging you for.

It's an upgraded Gamecube, graphically. Keeping in mind that it also has to fit in a smaller case than a Gamecube, which ups the price, that alone is worth $120-$150, depending on how much Nintendo wants to profit.

Add in support for radically new controller technology. Gimmick or next coming of videogames, wireless bluetooth ain't cheap, kids. That bumps the price up another $30-$50 between support for the controller and the inlcuded controller itself.

Add in the internal wireless. Keep in mind that wireless isn't cheap-- the 360's wireless adapter is $100. That bumps the price up another $30-$50.

You have a console worth around ~$200, when you look at the technology in it. Nintendo bundles in a game that they think will sell the controller (I know I want to Wii Box some friends) and charges $250, since they'll sell out through Christmas at that price anyway.

The 2006 holiday season will be loud, but it is not the important fight. By this time next year, when the price drops start hitting, that's when you can start calling the next-gen console war. No, neither I, nor you, nor Joystiq, nor the analysts know what the market will look like then-- we're in for an interesting, and likely close, fight.

Nintendo's new slogan:
The master of reselling the same product to you over and over again!

I like how stryderhayasa tries to pump the numbers up. Double in Megahertz does not mean double the power. Double in Ram is = to +24megs. Just remember to tell this to yourselves at night... Nintendo is making profit... Nintendo is making profit. Cause what is good for Nintendo is ... well no, its not good for you, but its good for Nintendo!

Sorry... i got molested by an snes and now im gonna start flame wars to see if i can only feel.

No offense, but should'nt the succcess of the Wii really come down to how well the games play and how it works with other people ( via network, Online, etc.) really determine whether or not it's successful?
The fact the the hardware is re-used, just means that the price shold drop faster as they have more profit margin to get work with. Heck, maybe they'll make a few bucks in on the console in the process to stay in business over the long term. May not keep techies happy but will make solid business sense