Uhm, I thought they pulled the auctions because it's their policy that you can't auction off preorders for items that still have more than 30 days before shipping.

The people who get launch systems and charage outrageous prices make me sick. They are the same assholes who ruined the 360 launch where people were forced to lineup at 2 am in the middle of November weather or pay $2k for a unit.

If you're going to buy one then use it,but don't dick over anyone else to fill your greedy pockets.Don't let someone who wants one to actually play and enjoy it get one,god forbid that. I wish ebay would end this insanity already and stick it to these assholes.

What ever happened to "caveat emptor?"

I got my preorder in, but won't list it for sale until I actually have it in hand and then only if there is still getting insane prices.

* If they are still getting insane prices.

Really spel goodly me!

Regardless of the reason behind the move, this can only be a good thing on the part of eBay. I feel it's totally unfair for quick money-makers to buy consoles that are in such short supply and sell them for a much greater amount than they're worth. For every person that does this, one less person walks away without a new console, a person who had a genuine intention of buying and enjoying that console properly.

"I feel it's totally unfair for quick money-makers to buy consoles that are in such short supply and sell them for a much greater amount than they're worth."

A console (or any commodity) is worth whatever someone pays. If someone wants to buy a console for $1000, then it's worth that price to that person.

However, it's eBay's service and their rules, so they can take down anything they want, and their reasons are bad here.

"their reasons are bad here."

^Their reason's *aren't* bad here.

Currently waiting to post my auction, because allot of people become restricted users after their items are removed.

Agreed with Joystiq and eBay.

I work at eBay and I'm glad. This means I won't have to hear from 100,000 angry people who don't get their PS3s right after launch cause the seller never got it.

I sent this news to Joystiq, and they missed the point completely:

http://digg.com/gaming_news/eBay_is_banning_all_presales_of_Playstation_3_and_banning_their_customers

eBay has every right to decide that due to contraversy they are going to stop pre-order auctions. But doing so doesn't have to amount to treating their own customers like crooks for trying!

It's not like it's posted anywhere that you are not allowed to sell them, so how the hell are you supposed to know this?

I have been an active eBay seller since 1999, I deserve better than that. A simple email saying they ended the auction, why, and not to post another would have been fine.

I'm pleasantly suprised by the comments so far.
In many a gaming "community" you see see the naive morals of the gamer being shouted down by the grotesque priorities of the sclapers, they're everywhere.
Fake bid 'em I say, (I will be).

"For every person that does this, one less person walks away without a new console, a person who had a genuine intention of buying and enjoying that console properly."

Technically, that's incorrect. The final customer who purchases the unit off eBay gets to use it. Just because a unit is bought and sold at a mark-up doesn't mean that it just disappears into space somewhere. Someone who really wants it is going to buy it and use it. Your real argument is that YOU don't want to pay that much for it and would like to be able to pick one up at retail whenever you get around to going to the store.

This is not food though. There's no requirement that you have this. You will not die if you don't have a console at launch. I don't have an opinion either way as to resellers, but I don't understand why anyone thinks that console sales should be regulated in some way. Price gouging only applies to necessities for a reason. They are necessary. This is not.

Also Joystiq, get your fact straight. The whole point was that only PS3 auctions were removed. Wii auctions abound.

"A console (or any commodity) is worth whatever someone pays. If someone wants to buy a console for $1000, then it's worth that price to that person."

Understood, but the moral issue is that the buyer in question could have got the same unit for the normal price.

QUESTION:
Why are stores getting so few Wiis. Didn't I read that there are already at least 2 million Wiis made? With only 400k PS3's, why are stores claiming to be receiving about the same number of each?

Here in Canada, preorders open for both the PS3 and Wii on Monday. Should be an interesting morning with both camps waiting in line together. EB Games will only let you preorder one of the two systems.

I agree with eBay. But if you are willing to pay $1000 for a $400 or $600 console then there's something wrong with you (or you just have too much money), not the people who buy and sell these for profit. It would be awesome if nobody buys these consoles on eBay though...those greedy bastards would just have to sell their PS3's for $600 or less.

"Why are stores getting so few Wiis."

Well it's a matter of what you call "few". EB/Gamestop are the only ones who we actually have any numbers of what they are getting on Launch day...And those numbers don't count the numbers they will have in there online store.

So here are some reasons why stores are getting so "few"

*This is just the first "Pre-order", and they are just testing the demand for the systems that day. Only stores that sell "well" got 16+ systems then say a store that doesn't "sell "well" and only got under 16. Numbers can go up from now till Launch Day, so a second "pre-order" could happen due to demand. I blame the 360~PS3 chaos for what happen yesterday.

*Gamestop/EB stores will only have half the number of unit and the online store will have the other half. And you know they will be bundles...

Either way, we will know soon enough...

Does it ever occur to anyone to just wait until you do see these items in stores, or in stock online?

I can't believe some of you capitalist whores are trying to justify this opprobrious scalping of consumers.

The practice makes a complete mockery of the collective trade agreement as we know it. The system relies on a principle that the worth of a product lies in what the maker decides to charge for it. This 'its worth the amount the buyer pays' argument completely ignores issues of liklihood, immediacy and circumstance.

By the logic your suggesting, it would be fair for someone with all the money in the world to buy everything and charge the public THEIR VERY LIVES (forfieted as slaves) to get anything. If you want to make a point please do so, but at least argue it properly.

Anyone else notice what it says in the permalink?

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/14/ebay-hates-ps3-no-they-just-dont-believe-sony-will-deliver/

One reason stores aren't getting as many Wiis as expected, or in numbers only slightly higher to those of PS3s, might have to do with the fact that the Wii is also being launched outside of NA and Japan (this year).

Blah, blah, blah. If someone is willing to spend $1500-$1800 on something that costs $600 you think it's wrong to sell it to them. If someone came to you and wanted to buy your car for 3 times its actual worth you would say "no"? Give me a break. If I am willing to get up at 5am and drag two of my friends with me promising them $250 when it sells to wait in the cold for 4 hours to get preorders, then I will get what I deserve, $$$. If you are upset you didnt get a preorder because your lazy ass didnt get out of bed early enough then come see me, I'll make you a good deal.

Another reason could be simple that they want to actually display the Wii on shelves. They might actually have a different preorder-to-instore ratio than the PS3.

(And for that matter, they can get away with such a ratio, unlike the PS3, which practically depends on selling out their stock)

to #25 PS3lvr

The millions of people in Europe disagrees with you, and notes that because you people artifically drive up demand in your continent, that they don't get any.

if people want something bad enough...they'll pay for it...plain and simple...dont get mad at the little guys trying to make a dollar...be mad that multi-billion dollar corporation sony charging 600 dollars for a freaking video game machine and that nintendo is charging 250 bucks for a suped up game cube.thats the REAL problem.

I didnt screw Europe, Sony did. They created this shortage and they could have killed this crazy pricing on eBay and every other auction site over producing instead of making too few. I am just taking advantage of a situation and I am glad I can. I know someone who wants the machine more then most is going to get it, they are just going to have to pay for it.

PS3lvr, you sir/madam are totally missing the point.
If you have your car, sat on the drive and no intention of selling, when someone offers you 5x it's worth, then yes, selling it may well be worth while (you might even get that Aston Martin you've had your eye on with the money).
What you're advocating however is buying an item SPECIFICALLY to mark-up the price, which is wrong on so many levels. It's like buying a house and charging your own family an entry fee.

I'm GLAD to see this happen!!!!! Koodo's to E-Bay for taking this action, I hate when these console's reach rediculous prices!!! And YES I pre-ordered BOTH of mine and waited on line!! So I'm not a hater!!!

Everyone seems to be missing the fact that Chrismahanakwanzika is just on the horizon, and the pressure to make little Junior happy by having a PS3 as a present will be enormous. It's pretty sad that some people equate money with love.

(Low volume + High demand)* XMAS = $$$$

I can wait to play the PS3 until Spring if I have to. And I am prepared to do so if these things are selling for ridiculous amounts on ebay or Craigslist or whatever. Once the PS3 is released and they are actually in peoples hands ebay will be flooded.

And please oh please all you fake bidders go ahead and do that. Most ebayers are smart and will put bidding restrictions on it. My auction will be to Paypal Verified and Good Positive feedback of 50 or more only. That means all you weenies making accounts to block sales won't have any effect on my auction, or those with similar restrictions. Any bids from people that have little or no feedback get their bids deleted.

Of course if there is no demand for the PS3 between the time they are actually released and Christmas, I won't be selling it. I'll just keep it. Ebay opportunists didn't create this problem, Sony did with their ridiculously low volumes.

A shortage is only a shortage if demand exceeds supply. You're artifically increasing demand, and thus is one of the factors of the shortage. You cannot deny that you aren't a factor, but only that you are a minor factor. However, hearing so many stories of how "I will buy 3 PS3s and make $$$" makes me believe that you're not as minor a factor as it would appear.

(Oh, and the people in Japan also complains on how your high demand led to them having so little stocks, along with almost everyone else not in USA.)

I didnt miss your point, I just dont agree with it. I am selling an item at what the market will bear. I am not going to put it up for 1500 or 2000, there is no need. I will post it for 99 bucks and let everyone else take care of the price. I dont understand why someone would pay an insane price, I wouldnt, but someone will and they will be HAPPY they got one.

Score one for eBay!

I couldn't agree more. Scalping tickets to a concert is illegal. Why shouldn't scalping launch consoles be the same? I've heard of a person who got six PS3 preorders, all of them destined for eBay. How is that fair to other people? There were likely six people in his area that legitimately wanted to keep and play a PS3 and would have to go through him and his exhorbitant price to get it.

You can't justify cheating your fellow gamers by the flimsy argument that Sony or Nintendo made the price too high... that has nothing to do with it. The bottom line is that scalpers are taking advantage of demand and screwing people out of a fairly priced console.

PS3lvr - "If someone came to you and wanted to buy your car for 3 times its actual worth you would say 'no'?"

They NEVER would make that offer because they can get that same car from a dealer at its fair price. Not a valid example.

PS3lvr - "I didnt screw Europe, Sony did. They created this shortage and they could have killed this crazy pricing on eBay and every other auction site over producing instead of making too few."

You think Sony's gimping their stock on purpose? Let me tell you, Christmas is the BEST time to sell your console thanks to the gift-giving rush. Making too few consoles on purpose is the DUMBEST thing they could do. They'd just let Nintendo and Microsoft ramp up their install base. No, this isn't an artificial shortage. You're just using it to justify your greedy little scheme.

Yes OMAC, but by making you leeches create bidding restirictions we will certainly shorten your profits.
Why do you post here if you're only interested in money?
Sod off back to wherever you came from.

I guess I should be waving my finger at the prospectors during the Gold Rush, too. I mean, all they did was come out to the west and get gold for the sole purpose of turning right around and making a profit off of it. How dare they practice Capitalism in America!

Personally I get the feeling that the whole Ebay thing is going to be a non issue.

Back when the PS2 was released, we all had a giggle about how a handfull of people were able to sell there PS2 for a grand on ebay... and even more of a laugh when someone sold a "PS2 Box".

Xbox and Gamecube, people talked about it, but meh, I didn't notice a big number.

Xbox 360, people are looking back on the PS2 stuff and a few realized "Wow, i can make money" so they did it... good for them i suppose.

PS3... Well people are looking at the recent 360 release, and the PS2 release, and relizing the limited numbers, and the coolness factor and thinking they can make a bundle.

Well, here's a concept, your not the only person with that idea, its been around 5+ years now. I've read articles where people in the preorder lines were asked what they plan on donig, and 7 out of 10 were saying they were selling.

Lets assume that the number is lower 5 out of 10... which actually seems realistic if you look at the buzz. In north america thats going to be 200,000 consoles (assuming Sony launches as many as they say). 200,000 enteries showing up on ebay and similar sites in the course of a few weeks?

Thats going to flood the market.

If these things end up marked up... it will be by like $50. I think more likley it will be people who don't bother to set a reserve will end up taking a loss (expecially when you figure ebay fees, paypal fees, etc). The first few PS3s that show up on ebay, with a Buy it now, might make some money, but come on 20,000 PS3s on ebay at the same time... just don't see it... and when you figuer that 200,000 or so say they are going to sell... nope.

to #38 PS3lvr

Firstly, you're extending the average time a PS3 would take to get to a user. In addition to the normal shipping times, you never know if there might be another delay during shipping, or if a fradulent buyer bids on your item, etc.

Secondly, by doing this you are indirectly harming Sony. Do remember that every PS3 sold is sold at a loss. The only reason to do so is to get as many PS3s into user's hands as soon as possible, to convince developers to develope for them. By being a middleman you're hurting them by delaying the user from getting them.

Thirdly, some people (like those in Eupore, or those working night shifts) can't line up with you to get the PS3. And some people do line up, only they're too late because they just happen to behind the last person to get the PS3, and you took the PS3 which they might've gotten (again, artificial demand).

I think you haters here are missing the point. The person who stands in line at 5:00am in the morning DOES represent the end user who really wants that unit. The only reason to be upset over this is if you want a console yourself but do not want to wake up at 5:00am to go and get one. The scalpers are not stealing consoles away from people who really want them. Because someone who really wants that console gets it in the end. If you want a console, you have to wake up earlier than the next guy who also wants it. I guess the point here would be assuming no-one was reselling their ps3 on ebay, you still need to get up at 5:00am to go and get one. The only party here to blame is sony for not being able to produce enough units in time for the launch, if they were able to, this would all be moot.

I'm not really sure who's being hurt by scalping PS3s on ebay. The scalpers have no advantage over someone that really wants a console. PS3s are going to be widely available at their regular cost (or less!) in a few months. It's not like a concert ticket, where there's a limited supply and it happens rarely or once only.

Do you think that if the ebay sellers weren't there, there'd be PS3s for everyone, and all would be happy? What about someone like me who could NOT stand in line to preorder because I had to be at work on time? Do I not deserve a preorder because I wasn't willing to forsake my job?

I'm just confused where people get this strange idea of morality. Yeah, it doesn't seem particularly nice to resell it, but who is losing because of it?

I dont get what half of you guys are bitching about. If someone said they would give you $20 bucks for anything in ur home you would probably hand them a pencil. I thought America was about capitalism or what not. Im poor, I made sure I was first in line at Ebgames on Tuesday 6am was.

Im going to sell it and make a profit. The way I see it there spending the extra money for beein too DAMN lazy to go out there and stand online themselves. If they can afford it theres nothing wrong there, its like im being compensated for provinding a service.

I don't have a problem with people selling stuff on ebay. What I do have a problem with is people selling something they don't even have yet. Somebody wants to pay several thousand dollars to buy a PS3, let them. It's their money, not mine.

Trying to sell something that you have absolutely no gaurantee that you will have in a month is just idiotic. What if Sony cuts the amount being released again? Or if EB/GS decide to sell all their PS3s on Ebay? You could very well not get a game system, and there would be nothing illegal about it. So that person who paid you for a console doesn't get one.

I don't have a problem with you guys selling a PS3 at launch, but at least be honest and wait until you can actually deliver on your promise.

Dont worry guys theres always craigslist, when i buy my ps3 on november 17th at the sony store in midtown manhattan I will be selling my 500 dollar version of the ps3 for a 1000 bucks on craigslist, somebody will buy it, Guarnteed!

Psaakyrn, your anti-American rant about people selling video game consoles on e-bay is about the stupidest fucking thing I've read this year, and I read a lot. Go bitch about a real issue, like North Korea selling nukes on e-bay or something along those lines (it's only a matter of time!).
In any event, PS3lvr is right. Sony is the problem, not America. If Sony wants to allocate their PS3s to one market and totally neglect another, hate to tell you this, but we're not the ones fucking the Europeans.
You can't tell me that Sony wouldn't love to sell out of their 400k units and say, "Guess what? We sold out of our console faster than anyone else this holiday season and we were right about the price. People are more than willing to pay $600 for our new Blu-r...game console. No price cuts in the near future!" Holy shit, it's the PSP all over again. Get your head out of your ass. If this is the biggest problem in your life you need some help.

I'll sabotage a dozen or so auctions on ebay, but that's my lot.
These are just the "auctioneers" I've seen spam gamer's sites.
They deserve it. ;)

nintendofanboyandproud (#22),

"By the logic your suggesting, it would be fair for someone with all the money in the world to buy everything and charge the public THEIR VERY LIVES (forfieted as slaves) to get anything. If you want to make a point please do so, but at least argue it properly."

If only one person in the world had all the money, wouldn't it be reasonable to believe that people would cease to recognize that person's money as their money? They would adopt another type of currency. This is especially true with fiat systems like ours.

36. Yes OMAC, but by making you leeches create bidding restirictions we will certainly shorten your profits.
Why do you post here if you're only interested in money?
Sod off back to wherever you came from.

Posted at 9:59PM on Oct 14th 2006 by Vince 1 star

Who said I was only interested in making money? I play games and Joystiq is a gaming website. Figure the rest out for yourself Vince. I got to my local Gametsop at 9:55 AM and was number 8 in line. If people didn't know about the preorder in time that is not my fault. I learned about it right here at Joystiq.com the night before. If people are willing to fork over large amounts of cash then so be it. The demand will cause me to sell. The fact that I bought a PS3 did not cause a shortage. I plan on playing it if it doesn't sell. I figure I won't sell if the demand is under $1000.

Also, I am not going to make the decision to sell until I actually have it in hand. It all depends on the going price of the PS3 when I acquire it. Would any of you turn down $1400 of free money if it meant not playing the PS3 for a few months? I can't look away from that kind of money. That's 2 mortgage payments for me. 1/10th of a car.


As for these people that are claiming they have multiple preorders, I believe them, but I have it on good authority that Gamestop and EB will be scrutinizing the preorders very closely to check names against addresses. Anyone with multiples is only likely to get a single unit. It seems that gamestop management learned a few lessons from the XBox 360 launch. Multiple preorders from the same name or address get reshuffled so unique addresses and names get first crack. If someone preordered multiples under the same name or address they are screwed, even if they preordered from different stores.

Of course that's just a rumor I heard.

Be mad at me all you want. I don't care one way or the other.

Am I a capitalist whore because my family is poor and I need the extra money to afford a car so I can drive to college, get an education, and support myself? What about the busy guy with a good career who might need to go work the morning of the ps3 launch, he makes enough money to pay double for the console and still consider it worth the money... does he not deserve to get a ps3? Do I not deserve to sell him one to get ahead in this money-centric society? GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!

eBay is a *private* auction site. They can tell you what is permissable to sell and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. If you don't like it, sell it on the damn street corner. There are 2 issues eBay has a problem with 1) People do not physically have this item in their possesion and 2) It isn't even 30 days until the product comes out yet.

I'm sure you need the launch of the PS3 to get you through college Danny, I really do.
Thank god for all the good the PS3 will do for people like Danny.
Phew.



(Don't forget to sab those auctions)